[RESOLVED] racial slurs

[dra cysinye]

how are these handled? cuz..uh...

"For once I agree with Vera on something. Her journal entry was targetting her friends. Some people need comfort, unlike you who have to flash nuts (that you don't have) and get upset over nothing. You're like those emo kids that talk about stabbing their ex for leaving your selfish ass, but you haven't the testiculars you front with. Nigga please...

By your own words, keep PERSONAL problems to yourself." courtesy of sasaki (http://www.furaffinity.net/user/sasaki/)

that kind of crap just pisses me off to no end.

[Wolfblade]

Despite the ample negativity in that quote OTHER than the "racial slur"....

"Nigga please" is generally regarded as a common thing these days, and as much as I agree racial slurs should not be tolerated, I don't think this counts as one anymore.

Your sig says "faggot." That's every bit as offensive if someone wants to be offended over what a word most commonly meant 20 years ago. I really hope the site isn't going to be so Politically Correct as to get on someone's case for a comment that, in that particular context, is harmless.

If they have to do something about that user for that comment, the same thing needs to be done with you about your sig. I sincerely hope nothing is done to either of you, because it is just plain silly to get bothered by words that are used casually and harmlessly by the people they used to insult, ESPECIALLY when there is no obvious intent behind the word for it to be taken in its outdated offensive context.

[Ethan]

Nigga, please.

[uncia2000]

how are these handled? cuz..uh...

"For once I agree with Vera on something. Her journal entry was targetting her friends. Some people need comfort, unlike you who have to flash nuts (that you don't have) and get upset over nothing. You're like those emo kids that talk about stabbing their ex for leaving your selfish ass, but you haven't the testiculars you front with. Nigga please...

By your own words, keep PERSONAL problems to yourself." courtesy of sasaki (http://www.furaffinity.net/user/sasaki/)

that kind of crap just pisses me off to no end.

Heya.

Best idea would be to flag up the comment for deletion, since I presume that was posted on your (now deleted?) journal.
In the case above, that comment (and underlying tone-of-voice) can still offend you to a greater degree than might be read by a casual viewer. Understandable.

I'm inclined to agree with the concern that people might complain about everything that could be taken as a slight of character, race, whatever, in the hope of getting other people warned/banned, so unless there is an extremely clear, one-sided virulent attack the course of action would be to simply delete the comment(s) without handing out a warning.
If there are ongoing incidents like that, I'd rather the individuals involved just avoid each other and focus on the huge amount of more positive, enjoyable stuff elsewhere in the community; and will say as much. Should anyone continue or deliberate provoke an escalation repeatedly, that is their call but it should be clear enough what the possible consequences are.
Our goal is overall smooth community running, not "taking sides".

aside: I've deleted Sasaki and Nitro's comments in your latest journal - again, no warn - since those were getting a bit more personal, but I have no idea what was written in your now-deleted journal.

I trust that will be sufficient for now, but feedback here or via PM is most welcome.

Best wishes,
David/u2k.

[Silver R. Wolfe]

I'm inclined to agree with the concern that people might complain about everything that could be taken as a slight of character, race, whatever, in the hope of getting other people warned/banned, so unless there is an extremely clear, one-sided virulent attack the course of action would be to simply delete the comment(s) without handing out a warning.
If there are ongoing incidents like that, I'd rather the individuals involved just avoid each other and focus on the huge amount of more positive, enjoyable stuff elsewhere in the community; and will say as much. Should anyone continue or deliberate provoke an escalation repeatedly, that is their call but it should be clear enough what the possible consequences are.

This is why we have sensible and understanding admins. :D

I completely agree with that statement.

[Rouge2]

Nigga isn't a racial slur.

My friend Star told me this several times.

[Espilonarge]

I can understand it being used by most American black people in America but here in Australia "nigga" or "nigger" and is considered racism towards black people.

Don't go saying it towards Australian police because you'll end up with one hell of a hefty fine aswell as jail time.

[Wolfblade]

*nods*

Of course it is always best to be mindful of other peoples' sensibilities.

At the same time though, those same other people need to be mindful of ours.

When something is said, it is the intended meaning of the speaker that should always be listened to, not the listener. If I say something and mean one thing, but someone else takes it to mean something else entirely, that simply is not my problem. I will try to clarify my meaning if I wasn't clear enough to begin with, but I rarely feel a need to apologise for someone else reading something into my words that simply wasn't there.

Here in america, the word is more or less defused of its negative meaning by swapping the 'er' for an 'a'. Its as if they are two different words. The former being the word filled with hate and badstuffs, the latter being the word claimed by those it used to oppress, and turned into their own term. Sortof taking away the power that word used to hold, and making it their own.

If Australia hasn't shared that movement, then of course nobody wants to offend anyone else (and if they're TRYING to offend, that would be noticed and dealt with I'm sure), but I do hope that everyone can understand the need to look into the context and intent of the speaker foremost when discussing any word or term with so many varied interpretations.

[Evol]

*nods*

Of course it is always best to be mindful of other peoples' sensibilities.

At the same time though, those same other people need to be mindful of ours.

When something is said, it is the intended meaning of the speaker that should always be listened to, not the listener. If I say something and mean one thing, but someone else takes it to mean something else entirely, that simply is not my problem. I will try to clarify my meaning if I wasn't clear enough to begin with, but I rarely feel a need to apologise for someone else reading something into my words that simply wasn't there.

Here in america, the word is more or less defused of its negative meaning by swapping the 'er' for an 'a'. Its as if they are two different words. The former being the word filled with hate and badstuffs, the latter being the word claimed by those it used to oppress, and turned into their own term. Sortof taking away the power that word used to hold, and making it their own.


Yes. I'd be hilarious if you went to East Point and tried to use "-a" directly to some black people, and THEN explain your intent with it. If you were still breathing.

[InvaderPichu]

Yes. I'd be hilarious if you went to East Point and tried to use "-a" directly to some black people, and THEN explain your intent with it. If you were still breathing.


Why would they care if he said "minus a"?

Or was "-a" simply a shorthanded version of nigga?

Why can't you say nigga? It's not a racial slur. Black people say it all the time.

Are you one of the many white morons out there who're afraid of blacks and hold them on a higher, special pedestal?

[Tabuu-Lion]

Yes.  I'd be hilarious if you went to East Point and tried to use "-a" directly to some black people, and THEN explain your intent with it.  If you were still breathing.


I'd laugh, but the majority of black people are touchy and get offended just because they can or it's expected of them.

[Evol]

Are you one of the many white morons out there who're afraid of blacks and hold them on a higher, special pedestal?


I was just explaining how idiotic that logic was.

And I'm Hispanic, thank you very much. I just choose not to say the word because I don't find it particularly amusing/clever.

[InvaderPichu]

Are you one of the many white morons out there who're afraid of blacks and hold them on a higher, special pedestal?


I was just explaining how idiotic that logic was.

And I'm Hispanic, thank you very much. I just choose not to say the word because I don't find it particularly amusing/clever.


I'm sure that's the reason.:roll:

And nigga, please. The logic made perfect sense.

Besides, they're just words. Words can't hurt you.

[Evol]

I'm sure that's the reason.:roll:


I think you proved that you have no reasoning skills. My work is done here.

[Visimar]

I thought I'd take the time to read up on this word a bit from here. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nigger) Wiki might not be 100% reliable, but nothing ever is...

Nigger, also spelled niger (obs.), nigor (obs. dial. Eng.), nigre, nigar (Caribbean), niggor (obs. dial.), neger (obs. U.S.), niggur, nigga, niggah, (obs.), nig (obs. short) or negro is an extremely pejorative term used for black people. During the period when slavery was practiced worldwide, and in particular by the United States and European countries, and for several decades after Europe and North America prohibited slavery, it was a standard, casual English term for black people. The word traditionally has been associated with an often casual contempt, a racist assumption of black inherent inferiority, even of bestiality, making it extremely pejorative. In the last 100 years it has also become a friendly and jocular term, used self referentially, among some black people.

First, READ THE BOLDED PART OF THAT. Black people were called "niggers" when slavery was practiced, which means they find it offensive because, from what I made out from other parts of that page (Yes, I read the whole darn thing [though I sometimes forget what I just read, and it apploes here too, so there's my bad short-term memory for you], racial topics like this I cannot stray from due to my very deep loathing of racists...), they were treated as inferior. Therefore, when that word crops up they get offensive because they believe you're insulting their abilities (At least from my point of view). And allow me to quote some posts here and reply to them...

InvaderPichu:
Why can't you say nigga? It's not a racial slur. Black people say it all the time.

I consider it a racial slur when whites use it. From what I gathered, when a black uses it, it is not as offensive as when a white uses it. Remember, we ARE the ones who enslaved them and forced them around with orders in the far past in the first place.

Are you one of the many white morons out there who're afraid of blacks and hold them on a higher, special pedestal?

Actually, it looks like you're the one regarding us people having at least SOME sympathy for blacks on a lower level.

Besides, they're just words. Words can't hurt you.

Actually words can quite hurt you. They're used literally everywhere, even if you fail to notice.

Wolfblade:
"Nigga please" is generally regarded as a common thing these days, and as much as I agree racial slurs should not be tolerated, I don't think this counts as one anymore.

Can you please explain what you're trying to say here? I don't quite get how that can be acceptable among today's terms. Then again, I never heard it, so I apologize if I sound like a clueless newbie (Post count, har har).

Here in america, the word is more or less defused of its negative meaning by swapping the 'er' for an 'a'. Its as if they are two different words. The former being the word filled with hate and badstuffs, the latter being the word claimed by those it used to oppress, and turned into their own term. Sortof taking away the power that word used to hold, and making it their own.

Sounds more like a silly word edit that was used to try to pass off as another different word if you ask me, though that may just be me being overly paranoid. O_o

uncia2000:
I'm inclined to agree with the concern that people might complain about everything that could be taken as a slight of character, race, whatever, in the hope of getting other people warned/banned, so unless there is an extremely clear, one-sided virulent attack the course of action would be to simply delete the comment(s) without handing out a warning.
If there are ongoing incidents like that, I'd rather the individuals involved just avoid each other and focus on the huge amount of more positive, enjoyable stuff elsewhere in the community; and will say as much. Should anyone continue or deliberate provoke an escalation repeatedly, that is their call but it should be clear enough what the possible consequences are.
Our goal is overall smooth community running, not "taking sides".

True, but some atagonists just won't stop, so I don't think that'll be completely avoidable. If it does go on much further than that...well that's up to you mods/admins to decide.

That's all the cents I can muster out of me...tired, didn't sleep at all last night, and I completely ran out of brain juice to carry my post further (You could probably tell if I don't start to make sense the longer I go). I think I'll just continue lurking now...or maybe fall asleep if I get tired enough. *Ninja-vanishes*

[InvaderPichu]

I think you proved that you have no reasoning skills. My work is done here.

http://www.gpknow.com/salemangel/otherstuff/kre100x.gif

Black people were called "niggers" when slavery was practiced, which means...

I already knew all of this.

I consider it a racial slur when whites use it. From what I gathered, when a black uses it, it is not as offensive as when a white uses it.

That's a double fucking standard you retard. And double standards piss me off.

Remember, we ARE the ones who enslaved them and forced them around with orders in the far past in the first place.

*I* had nothing to do with it, nor did any other white person today. Black people today only pull the slavery card so they can get off easy on shit. Boo-hoo for their ancestors, boo-fucking-hoo. It's over and done with, and no one alive today had to live with it. And don't you daaaaaaare say my ancestors had anything to do with it, either. Guess what? *My* ancestors were still in Europe when the whole slavery shit happened. Oh wait, I had some ancestors that were in America at the time. But I strongly doubt Native Americans owned black slaves. My ancestors (The Polacks, Germans, Irish, and Native Americans) all had to face some form of discrimination in the past. Does this mean I deserve to be put on some special pedestal? No, not at all. And neither should anyone else.

Actually, it looks like you're the one regarding us people having at least SOME sympathy for blacks on a lower level.

I'm regarding you on a lower level because you put another race on a higher level than yourself. They don't deserve it, no race does. All races are equal, no better, no worse. Remember, reverse racism is STILL a form of racism.

Actually words can quite hurt you. They're used literally everywhere, even if you fail to notice.

No, they do not hurt people. "Sticks and stones will break my bones but words can never hurt me."

[Wolfblade]

Uhm, remove all the insults and hostility, and look at just the actual points... and Pichu said pretty much what I was going to say.

Before people start reacting with equal hostility, let's try this minus the anger and nastiness...

Double standards are wrong. If a black person does not mind another black person saying a word, they have no right to react differently just because the person who said the word was of a different color. That is racism as well.

I very strongly disagree with the "we enslaved them" argument. As Pichu said; he, you, and I, have not ever enslaved anyone. There is not a person alive today who was a slave back when america practiced it. The continued use of "you enslaved us" is a crutch that, in my opinion, cripples the black community. It teaches children that they should not try and work to earn what everyone else has worked for an earned, but they should instead demand it as compensation for something that happened to their great-great-great-great grandparents. Ignoring that they are spitting on the rights and priveleges fought for and earned for them by their grandparents and parents. But that's getting off topic...

Words CAN be hurtful, and if words are INTENDED to hurt someone else, that should be kept in check.

However, if someone says a word with no intent to offend anyone, and someone else gets offended, well the offended person just needs to get over it.

And Evol, just because shouting 'nigga' in the middle of say, east oakland, WOULD unarguably get your ass killed or at least beaten if you're white, that doesn't make it right for them to do it. Although in that scenario, the person would be TRYING to piss them off. That's the main point here: there is a difference between getting offended when someone WANTS to offend you, and getting offended when nobody had intended it.

Evol and Pichu, could we at least try to act like we all understand how if your point is valid, it comes across a lot easier without excessive and needless hostility and dismissiveness?

[Ethan]

Can't a nigga get some cheese, please?

[Wolfblade]

Can't a nigga get some cheese, please?


Ok, I'm sorry, but are you just 12 or what?

I don't think I've seen you say a single thing that wasn't rude, pointless, inflammatory, just plain childish, or all of the above.

I'm not trying to start a fight or be insulting, I am GENUINELY of the opinion that you can not be more than 12 years old with the way you behave on here. :|

[Hanazawa]

Actually, I kind of like Ethan's posts. They remind us not to take everything so seriously. :D

[Tabuu-Lion]

personally, I think Pichu hit it on the head as to how I feel.

[dave hyena]

No, they do not hurt people. "Sticks and stones will break my bones but words can never hurt me."


I'm inclined to trust Doctors of Psychology (http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2003/04/030417080610.htm) more than you.

[Arshes Nei]

*Shrugs* I'm Black and I use it generally being sarcastic, and to make fun of it, other than that, I don't even use it when I'm with other Blacks (unless I'm doing the former).

Then again many people say I don't "sound" Black so whatever. Maybe the other half of my heritage cancels it out :P

[Ethan]

Ok, I'm sorry, but are you just 12 or what?

I don't think I've seen you say a single thing that wasn't rude, pointless, inflammatory, just plain childish, or all of the above.

I'm not trying to start a fight or be insulting, I am GENUINELY of the opinion that you can not be more than 12 years old with the way you behave on here. :|


Hey, can't people have fun anymore? Is humor something furries don't like or grasp? Cause, really, that's what it seems like. Take a chill pill, bitch.

[furry]

http://www.blackpeopleloveus.com/onelove.html

[Wolfblade]

Ok, I'm sorry, but are you just 12 or what?

I don't think I've seen you say a single thing that wasn't rude, pointless, inflammatory, just plain childish, or all of the above.

I'm not trying to start a fight or be insulting, I am GENUINELY of the opinion that you can not be more than 12 years old with the way you behave on here. :|


Hey, can't people have fun anymore? Is humor something furries don't like or grasp? Cause, really, that's what it seems like. Take a chill pill, bitch.


There's a difference between humor and just being obnoxious. But this is something most people don't learn to recognize until mid-teens or later. Hence, your age being brought into question since you obviously haven't learned to make this distinction yet :P

[Arshes Nei]

I guess it's all fun and games 'til someone loses a liver...

[Wolfie]

No, they do not hurt people. "Sticks and stones will break my bones but words can never hurt me."


I'm inclined to trust Doctors of Psychology (http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2003/04/030417080610.htm) more than you.




Psychobabble bullshit. :P

It's namecalling. Words. Words can't hurt you unless you LET them. People need to learn how to grow up and deal with it. We don't need to listen to Mr. Psychology dumb down society even more than it already has been. ^^;

[Ethan]

There's a difference between humor and just being obnoxious. But this is something most people don't learn to recognize until mid-teens or later. Hence, your age being brought into question since you obviously haven't learned to make this distinction yet :P

Damn, dude. To use a cliche, INTERNET IS SERIOUS BUSINESS. Can't have fun at the expense of others, because people are SERIOUS and this is a SERIOUS forum. Hey, I'll tell you what, I do whatever the fuck I want and you just sit there and take it all in stride. That sound good?

[Wolfie]

Dude.. Fun is one thing. Fun at the expense of others is another.

Just having fun and not taking things too seriously is fine, that's all I ever do. I've never seen Wolfblade try and stop people who ARE "just having fun." But he tends to speak up when your "fun" is at someone else's expense.

When it's at someone else's expense, it isn't having fun. It's being a douche. :P

How about a moderator's opinion here? There is a distinction to the mods between someone just having a good time, and someone being a dick to people, right? ^^

[csutra]

Words CAN hurt you..say the wrong thing to the wrong person, you might end up getting curbed for mouthing off ^^

[Wolfie]

Words CAN hurt you..say the wrong thing to the wrong person, you might end up getting curbed for mouthing off ^^


But the words themselves aren't doing the hurting. It's the person who is letting the words get to them. :wink:

[Wolfblade]

Words CAN hurt you..say the wrong thing to the wrong person, you might end up getting curbed for mouthing off ^^


But the words themselves aren't doing the hurting. It's the person who is letting the words get to them. :wink:


Words by themselves don't hurt.

But if a person says a word INTENDING it to hurt someone, and someone is hurt by that word, the person speaking them is in the wrong.

If you say something intentionally hurtful, you're responsible for any hurt that comes from them as sure as if you swing a fist meaning it to smash someone's face, you are responsible for any teeth that may need replacing.

Words don't hurt people; People hurt people. Intentionally hurtful people in a community that wants its members to be happy should not be given a lot of tolerance.

[InvaderPichu]

So if I told someone that's they're worthless and deserve to die, and they go off and kill themselves over it, it's all my fault? :B

[Wolfblade]

If someone's unstable enough to actually go kill themself because an internet person said to just go die, no, not your fault. But still a direct result of your actions, and you should feel SOMEWHAT bad that a life is ended because of something you did.

Just generally a good reason to try to avoid telling people to go die. They might do it. And I'm sorry, but someone who feels NO remorse that something they said caused someone to kill themself really doesn't have a very high value of human life.

Yes, it's the internet, "serious business" and all that, but I mean come on people. Is it really THAT hard to not be a >complete< douche to people for no reason? You might not care, but some people do. And other peoples' feelings aren't invalidated just because you don't share them.

[Tilt]

ITT WE TALK ABOUT OFFENSIVE RACIAL SLURS.

[dave hyena]

People need to learn how to grow up and deal with it.  


Irony? It's like goldie and bronzie right?

Psychology is the *science* of the mind.

On the one hand we have a Doctor of psychology who has carried out a scientific study of this issue. On the other we have you mouthing off about something which you seem to know little about, and indeed, I'll wager you didn't even read the article. Leaping instead to vomit forth your maloderous opinions.

hmmmm. Who is more trustworthy I wonder? :P

If you deny that words can hurt people, you deny that words can affect people at all and anyone who denies this is an ignoramus. A foolsopher.

You're the worst kind of idiot who thinks beating someone down makes them stronger and who most likely themself gets a frisson from bullying others or seeing them bullied.

Did you find my words offensive? did they annoy or upset you? did you feel like contradicting them?

Oh look, words affected you, indeed, they hurt you.


ITT WE TALK ABOUT OFFENSIVE RACIAL SLURS


In this thread we will repeat catchphrases and posting behavior which we saw GBS bottomfeeders using.

[furry]

Psychology isn't an exact science, and on many issues you could have two psychologists say the exact opposite thing about the why and how and stuff.

Anyway, words can hurt, no one can deny that.

But words only hurt if perceived as offensive, unlike punches in the face. And the offensiveness depends a lot on the usage people make of the word, no word is offensive by itself, it's all in the listener's mind.
So IMO if the word isn't used as a means of offense people should try it get over it.

[Arshes Nei]

Well don't forget the words will hurt if it is from someone you truly care about, like a family member or lover.

There is such thing as emotional abuse. Young children being screamed at by their parents calling them losers and such will feel the hurt just as much as a punch in the face.

When you're older and people around you that you may have casual business with call you a loser, that's something you can learn to deal with and get over.

I'm going to be much less hurt by some random guy who hates Blacks calling me a nigger than someone I love or care about saying something hateful to me.

That's just the way it is :P

[Pico]

Psychology is the *science* of the mind.

On the one hand we have a Doctor of psychology who has carried out a scientific study of this issue. On the other we have you mouthing off about something which you seem to know little about, and indeed, I'll wager you didn't even read the article. Leaping instead to vomit forth your maloderous opinions.

hmmmm. Who is more trustworthy I wonder? :P
I do agree that there is such a thing as emotional abuse*, but you should always take article reviews (like the one you posted) with a grain of salt. Post the actual research article written by those doctors, and you would have a better argument ;o)

*although I'm not sure if I would consider being called a nigger over the internet "emotional abuse"; a study on that, specifically, would be interesting.

[Wolfie]

Give me an example of when I have bullied ANYONE on here, Dave Hyena. ANYONE at all. Any person who knows me can tell you that I have never bullied anyone in my life. I've never hurt anyone. And why are you calling me an idiot? Because I don't trust psychologists? That makes me an idiot? Like Furry stated, psychology isn't an exact science. It's not a concrete thing. Jeez dude, you should really learn how to chill. You're way too quick to anger. :(

And how did your words hurt or offend me? I didn't take or show any sort of offense to them. I was just stating my belief that words themselves can't hurt anyone, it's the person who chooses to take offense to the words that hurt themselves. You're reading way to much into my opinion dude. I wasn't 'attacking' or 'bullying' anybody. I was just sayin'. You're calling a person you don't even know an idiot and a fool just because their opinion is different from yours. Again, you seem really quick to anger and mouthing off. It's alright dude, nobody is attacking you. :(

[Tilt]

In this thread we will repeat catchphrases and posting behavior which we saw GBS bottomfeeders using.


And you are??

[Vitae]

ITT we make some custom user titles.

[Marthaen]

Locking this thread as it has gone off track and is starting a flame war.