2 The Ranting Gryphon

Discussion in 'Furry Conventions' started by amatus, Mar 15, 2017.

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Should 2 The Ranting Gryphon be at anthrocon?

Poll closed Mar 22, 2017.
  1. Yes

    60.0%
  2. No

    40.0%
  1. amatus

    amatus New Member

    Last night I heard that 2 Gryphon is not going to Anthrocon. Can anyone tell me why. I need one hundred percent fact with evidance to support any claim.
     
  2. Dedskunk

    Dedskunk Member

    He's not going because AC canned him.
     
  3. SSJ3Mewtwo

    SSJ3Mewtwo Administrator Staff Member

  4. Mr. Fox

    Mr. Fox This is what the fandom did to me!

    Oh, look, another update from the man himself.



    I don't particularly watch or follow the guy but I actually feel bad for him, not to mention that the behavior exhibited by Anthrocon in regards to his show goes against many of the good values about this fandom, values it is supposed to be built on.
     
    Last edited: Mar 22, 2017
  5. KageSakuraclown

    KageSakuraclown Active Member

    I feel so bad for 2
     
  6. Lcs

    Lcs Woof

    I do have to say that some of Gryphons posts were a bit questionable (in particular the suicide one); however, I still think that it was unreasonable to ban him from performing and make such a big deal out of what he wrote. Also, AC did a very poor job in explaining their motives.

    Having said all that, many of the critics of ACs decision were very annoying about the whole situation as well.
     
  7. Yakamaru

    Yakamaru No "Awooo'ing" allowed

    2's a comedian. Some people take his shit seriously, we end up here. It's that simple, albeit sad.

    2 should do his own livestream that he'd otherwise do on Anthrocon.
     
  8. ferretsage

    ferretsage Uncle Frank Deadly

    Anthrocon >should< be able to ban him because it's their show and, as a privately run organization, they can decide what goes into it. "Free Speech" only protects you from reprisals that deny life and liberty from the government.

    That said,

    1) Furry, as a fandom, is fucked.

    2) Furry conventions -- the whole idea -- is fucked.

    3) 2 "The Ranting Gryphon" is just a preview for the rest of you fools.

    4) Study Maslow's Hierarchy of Human Needs to understand items 1-3.
     
    Last edited: Mar 23, 2017
  9. Mr. Fox

    Mr. Fox This is what the fandom did to me!

    Ha-ha jokes on you, I've already been where he is and I'm not making that mistake again.
     
    ferretsage and Yakamaru like this.
  10. Yakamaru

    Yakamaru No "Awooo'ing" allowed

    Don't you get it? YOU FOO! We're ALL foo's!
     
  11. KimberVaile

    KimberVaile Edgy teenage apathy.

    It's really quite something to see 2 play victim here. I'll be the first to admit I'm not entirely savy with 2 Gryphon and his current form of comedy, so I apologize if anything I've said is misinformed. With that out of the way, my impression of 2 Gryphon is that he's fond of shock jock comedy, but with a heavy dose of edgelord. I listened to some his shows a couple years back and if I recall correctly, a large part of his shows consisted of finding news stories where somebody died from their own stupidity and relentlessly mocking him. If he's changed that format (doubtful), well shame on me, I'm the idiot here. Now, I'm quite aware comedy is a subjective, some people are into that. I've got to ask though, just how far can you take the ever popular fallback of "it's just satire" as a shield? It's a common fallback for many comedians, it's just a joke after all. I'm quite aware it's in a comedians job description to push the line, to push what is acceptable to say, but when you're directly insulting somebody who died, it's a personal attack, and it's horrifically cruel to the victim's family. That's okay though, it's satire. It's okay to disregard any sense of moral decency.

    If those were just a once off thing, I'd not find it so disturbing, but it is a recurring thing, and I draw the line at him encouraging people who are suicidal to commit suicide, both the video and the tweet he made. It's fucking repugnant. I don't care what sort of "satirical" commentary you're hiding behind, the message that some emotionally damaged kid who was bullied by suicide deserved to die is sick. It's this fallacious reasoning that, "Well I get hate all the time and you don't see me doing it!" It's intellectually dishonest. People are different, they have different personality traits and they react differently to different situations. Could you honestly say that every one of your friends enjoy the same humor, would you tell the same black comedy joke to everybody you know and expect them to find it funny? The answer should be no. I guarantee you a 12 year old kid is going to react to online bullying far differently than a grown adult. Are we really going to tote around and claim a depressed 12 year old kid with abusive parents is a moron for killing himself?

    I'm sure I'll be painted as some hardcore SJW, but truthfully I consider myself a moderate, which seems to get me flack on both sides. I've unashamedly laughed at a couple racist jokes, ranging from White, Black, Asian and Jewish. I'm not a saint, and I've no problem with non-PC jokes. It's my belief that if nobody is pushing the line, then society will inevitably regress into censorship. In that same breath, it is perfectly possible to find an extreme into the other direction, KKK, lynch mobs, ect. For those reasons, I've always considered balance integral to society, it's so easy to indulge in either extreme. And in my opinion, encouraging suicide and laughing at suicide victims is an extreme, though obviously not comparable to something like the KKK. With 2, there seems to be a belief that comedy must correlate with an utter abandonment of morality, that you must go out to say the most disturbing sociopathic shit you can. After all that however, I don't think 2 should be outright censored from doing any shows there again. He is right in that it isn't entirely fair to the people who came to see him, I'll agree with that. Outright censorship is rarely the appropriate answer. It IS Antrocon's prerogative however, if they want to remove him. Honestly speaking though, I don't feel too upset over his removal and don't sympathize much with his situation. Can't say I'm sad he's gone.
     
    Last edited: Mar 24, 2017
    Troj and Lcs like this.
  12. Yakamaru

    Yakamaru No "Awooo'ing" allowed

    Jewish isn't a race. Just sayin'.
     
  13. KimberVaile

    KimberVaile Edgy teenage apathy.

    I'm aware, I should have added something along the lines of culturally insensitive as well to better blanket the terms. Though, I presume the message I was expressing was clear enough for people to grasp what I was saying on a conceptual level.
     
    Yakamaru likes this.
  14. Yakamaru

    Yakamaru No "Awooo'ing" allowed

    Not to sound like an insensitive moron, but humor is 100% subjective, mate. What you may find humorous/funny someone else doesn't. What you may find offensive someone else may not.

    Also, there is no such thing as an offensive joke. Off colour, badly timed, poorly worded, in bad company, maybe. But nothing is offensive when it comes to humor.
     
    lupi900 likes this.
  15. KimberVaile

    KimberVaile Edgy teenage apathy.

    Of course humor is subjective, but satire does not render one invulnerable from consequence. Am I allowed to make a genuinely cruel jab at somebody who made headlines for dying of Agent Orange and when I receive backlash claim it's satire and for people to "get over it'? I can use the same line of reasoning, only I'm not an established comedian. Though, since 2 is an established comedian, it doesn't matter what comes out of his mouth, it's always shielded by the fact that it is "satire". I'd argue it's an inherently unfair standard. Even if it is satire, there are potential consequences for him pushing the message that those who are suicidal should just "do it". When humor is potential going to affect whether somebody takes their life or not, it doesn't matter what it is, it's hateful and destructive and only set's the precedent for even more blatantly hateful messages.

    Consider, the subjects of 2's humor, people who die of stupidity. Consider the family's, would them knowing it's "humor" make it any less cruel or painful? Probably not, 2 knows this going on, his humor is being weighed against a specific target with little regard for how they receive it, he doesn't know any of them personally. Though, who am I to argue? It makes people laugh, so it's okay.

    If somebody's sense of humor is predicated on laughing at death the of others, go for it, it seems pretty sick and sociopathic in my eyes, but if that's their bag, whatever, to each their own. Can't fault them for enjoying the humor in the end. Encouraging suicide though? No, that's true sociopathy, and you don't get the pass of humor for it, because that's when it truly has the power to have real life consequences. It's not out of the question to presume that a message like that could cause somebody to kill themselves, and if it that did happen would the message be the same? Just a joke brah? Does being a comedian mean you are forfeit of all consequences for your actions? There needs to be some baseline responsibly for what you say, comedian or not.
     
    Last edited: Mar 24, 2017
  16. Yakamaru

    Yakamaru No "Awooo'ing" allowed

    Going to have to respectfully disagree, here.

    Consequences? What consequences are we talking about here? No one is attacked by words. No one can be hurt by them. Words don't kill anyone.

    You take responsibility for your ACTIONS. Your words are 100% context based. If you say for instance "Death to all Jews!" with no sense of sarcasm, irony or sense of satire, and based upon your actual beliefs and past actions/words and your location, that is you calling for the death of any specific group. And depending on the circumstances of to whom/where you said those words, can and will get you jailed.

    Yes, you will find humor not to your liking. However, ostracizing, attacking, insulting and/or banning people whose humor does not fit yours I find disgraceful. A couple loud-mouthed people(aka, the minority) did not find 2 funny/humorous. The minority should not, and does not, control the majority.

    And for the record: People laugh at death all the time. Are there deaths we can and can't joke about? Are there things we can and can't joke about? People are simply going to disagree and joke about it even more. It's part of human nature to NOT do what they're told.

    That being said: Do I disagree with Anthrocons' actions on banning 2? Yes. However, I do respect their decision. It is indeed their right to ban anyone they please, for whatever reason they may find.
     
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  17. KimberVaile

    KimberVaile Edgy teenage apathy.

    There is a difference between targeting a normal, mentally stable human being and people on the brink of suicide. To somebody on the brink of suicide, fuck yeah words are going to have a pretty big sway over what they do. Because we are talking about mentally unhealthy people, who have been brought to their state by words. I'd have no problem if the targets were mentally stable people, go ahead, lay on them. And yeah, I was a bit harsh in deeming that type of humor socipathic, I'll accept that was inappropriate. Right, now here's were the line gets muddy, do you legitimately know 2 doesn't actually buy into the Social Darwinist belief that if you are stupid you deserve death? I'm not saying he is, nor am I saying he is not, but I am saying that yeah, while it is satire, is it a complete impossibility that his comedy is rooted in small facets of his beliefs? I don't know the guy personally so I'm not going to claim either case. Though, I do feel it is important to state. Satire can be a venue to voice opinions.

    Things like what is and isn't appropriate to joke about are best handled by a case by case basis. What are we joking about? What is the context of their actions? How long ago did it happen? There are all kinds of variables to consider. And for the record, I didn't think it was the right thing to do to complete ban 2. I don't personally agree with his views, but censoring is the last way I would have responded. My point was, it's rather silly he's playing the victim card, and I don't personally think he has much basis to.
     
    Yakamaru likes this.
  18. WendigoNasty

    WendigoNasty The Booty Police

    I think a lot of the things 2 has said is highly inappropriate (IE his views on suicide) and while I believe that he has every right to his opinion on the matter, he must be prepared to accept consequences for holding said views. We have to think about how Anthrocon wants to be seen, every person that holds a panel or show at the con is a representative of the convention's values and ideals, if the staff have determined that a performer no longer represents these values well then they have an obligation to remove them from the roster, in my opinion. This isn't censorship, Anthrocon isn't saying he can't make his jokes or have his opinions ever, this is just the con expressing that they do not approve of or share 2 Gryphon's views. I might have a different opinion on the subject if Anthrocon was a scholarly event where there was debate since I am very against 'no platforming' in academia, but Anthrocon is not such an event and therefore I don't hold it to those standards. Preforming at an entertainment or fandom based convention is not a right, its a privilege that can be taken away at the con's discretion.

    Maybe 2 should have stuck to joking about toasters...
     
    Fallowfox likes this.
  19. Fallowfox

    Fallowfox T-Tauri

    I think this thread has revealed a hypocrisy that a lot of edgy comedians have.
    They insist that words can't hurt anybody, but then they play victim and accuse other people of ruining their careers for criticising them.
    I thought you guys didn't think words could do any harm?

    A similar hypocrisy is revealed when people say that 'humour is subjective' but then claim that jokes are, objectively, never offensive. If humour is subjective, then guess what, that means your ideas about whether jokes are offensive aren't objective either.

    Anyway, as others have said, Anthrocon is a private event so isn't obliged to host anybody who they don't think meets their standards of etiquette.
    It is amazing that gryphon thinks he can represent it as a free speech issue; I think that's like doing a massive turd on free speech. Free speech doesn't exist in order to guarantee income for comedians who lose their platforms after saying nasty things. It's there to protect critics of the government from police oppression.
     
    Last edited: Mar 24, 2017
  20. Yakamaru

    Yakamaru No "Awooo'ing" allowed

    I should've been more specific and have a broader and clearer distinction on what I meant, so I apologize for that. Targeting specific individuals, even if they are mentally healthy, is against the law, especially if you simply go and say "go kill yourself". The same goes for attacking specific individuals.

    What is and isn't appropriate to joke about? Nothing is off the table. However, you do have to consider your situation at the time. There is a time and place for everything. However, keep in mind that 2's always had this "shock" factor to his humor and satire. When people are listening in on 2, they ought to at the very least understand what can and will pop up. Some people obviously didn't find him funny.

    And now 2's going to have to learn from this, and go from there. I personally do not think any humor is too far, but some people did, and thus we're now here.

    Quite frankly, I think people should stop being so thin-skinned. It's ruining humor and satire. Case in point: Amy Schumer. Degraded to crappy vagina jokes.
     

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