2 The Ranting Gryphon

Discussion in 'Furry Conventions' started by amatus, Mar 15, 2017.

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Should 2 The Ranting Gryphon be at anthrocon?

Poll closed Mar 22, 2017.
  1. Yes

    60.0%
  2. No

    40.0%
  1. KimberVaile

    KimberVaile Edgy teenage apathy.

    Now if he went and said, "Yeah I'm a asshole and I say controversial stuff a few salty easily offended cunts didn't like, hence why I'm no longer a part of Antrhrocon." I would have no issue, because yeah that phrasing is quite cunty, but you know, he's at least owning he's a dick or "shock jock" if you will, instead of victimizing himself with the "Ooh poor me, I'm being bullied!" shtick. When the shock jock starts asking for pity, well, to put it lightly, that's quite the dissonance, hypocritical pity pleas at that. The juxtaposition simply can't be hand waived here.
     
    Last edited: Mar 24, 2017
  2. webkilla

    webkilla Furry, brony, anon - for lulz

    What has been done to 2 - while highly questionable - is still within the rights of the AC board

    However, as 2 pointed out: Then the AC staff has NOT been honest about why he was canned. At the very damned least they could be honest, instead of dance around the topic - which, in 2's second video - is shown to be a flat out lie.

    Be honest about why you don't want 2 at your con - or be considered a liar
     
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  3. DusterBluepaw

    DusterBluepaw [creative custom title]

    People keep bringing up the whole suicide thing, well if you watched his video where he did the buzzfeed privilege test he didnt click "have you never attempted suicide", so i think he has every right to say what he said.
    As someone who has tried it myself several times, i completely agree with what 2 said, if you are going to kill yourself over some moron talking shit to you, then well you clearly cant handle what life has in store, there are great times and there are bad times, and if you are willing to throw your life away over such benign matters, well then so be it.

    Ive been through some crazy shit, stuff you would think ive made up, ive been bullied (the actual definition, none of this "oh i got made fun of a few times their for i was bullied") for years at school, the only times i tried it involved deaths or being backstabbed and bashed up.

    I agree with his whole mentality of the anti-SJW special snowflake rubbish, and that is his message, with life, you toughen up or quit, and i agree, but unfortunately the plague of the SJWs is affecting everything including this fandom, clearly there are some SJWs on the board at AC, which is sad.
     
  4. KimberVaile

    KimberVaile Edgy teenage apathy.

    It's the, I can do it, you can do it fallacy. We're talking about mentally unhealthy people, so no, I don't think it's ok to further bring them down. Any other targets and I would have been just peachy with it. But really, the whole, "Well I didn't go through with it!" Set of logic is stupid, because people react differently to different situations, there's different context surrounding suicidal people, different age and maturity, ect. Painting every single suicidal person with a single stroke and saying, "well this should be your example and this is why it is ok for him to insult suicidal people" inherently lacks any appropriate perspective or consideration for variation. A lot of these cases, we're talking about mentally immature kids, and high schooler, people who are CLEARLY not mature yet, of course they are going to be more prone to doing stupid shit. To utterly dismiss their mental maturity and the conditions of their bullying, ( which could be verbal harassment practically everyday) is pretty thoughtless.
     
    Last edited: Mar 27, 2017
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  5. DusterBluepaw

    DusterBluepaw [creative custom title]

    I guess you are right but ugh like i dont want to go on about some of the horrors ive been through as a kid, but boy did i have every excuse to do it, because of it, i am quite mentally unhealthy, but i just dealt with it, i dunno maybe im just jaded because im so use to it and dont value human life as much as i should depending on various things, also, there are plenty of adults who clearly arent mentally mature, and i know this may sound cruel, but well i am just tired of weak people, ive watched this whole SJW bullshit from the beginning and ive just had enough, i can be quite empathetic, but there is a certain point where you just say "fuck it".
    Im not a fan of Darwin, but i do agree with the whole survival of the fittest thing, like just look at say the middle east, after america terrorized the place, what do you see? groups of people like ISIS, now i dont condone them, but i see where they are coming from, they are fighting for what they believe in, they arent being weak, and that is the key, if there is a problem, you build a bridge, reinforce it and walk over it, i sure havent gone over mine yet, but im trying.

    As for your comment on bullying, please look up the definition, it has become so overused and used incorrectly, getting made fun of for a few weeks because of something stupid you did is not bullying, bullying is being harassed constantly, going on years, and i have been through that since i was 10 over stuff that is nightmare material.
     
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  6. Lcs

    Lcs Well-Known Member

    You know, I feel like a lot of people lack a degree of empathy and it's especially visible on the internet. I guess an explanation would be that it's easy to not care about people if you're behind a keyboard and never see the face of the person that you just insulted. Particularly since the offenders have little accountability as a result of anonymity.

    I get that you've been abused/bullied physically, which is probably the more intense and cruel type of bullying, but that doesn't mean that verbal abuse/bullying is non-existent or harmless. Whether the effects be anxiety issues, low self-esteem, anger issues, stress... (etc.), it certainly deals harm. So when someone has such problems, encouraging them to commit suicide is probably unjust. Calling them a special snowflake, as if they're just acting overly entitled, is probably inappropriate as well.
     
    Last edited: Mar 27, 2017
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  7. KimberVaile

    KimberVaile Edgy teenage apathy.

    To be fair, those people (ISIS) are brainwashed, religion is shoved down their throat as a kid and they are told it is a "pretty dang noble thing" to kill yourself in the name of god. There's a lot of indoctrination going on there. Logic isn't going to magically show suicidal people the way, when you're dealing with people like that, it makes sense to at least try and emotionally support them. Because Jesus Christ dude, what is logic going to do for somebody who's being called an ugly cunt every day she goes to school and has virtually no friends? You can't logically reason with somebody like that, not very well at least. It's your prerogative if you live by that Social Darwinist crap, but you know let's go by that logic for a minute. Isn't there a strong possibility that if the suicidal person moves past their tendencies that they'll become the jaded, strong willed people you want to see more of? By protecting that person in their ultimate moment of weakness, doesn't that just reinforce the whole, what doesn't kill you makes you strong line of thinking? Sure, you're violating it by some margin by intervening, but by all accounts, they've been on the brink and back haven't they? I don't think it is beneath me to help those I find "weaker" than me, though, my definiton for what makes somebody weak is a fair bit different than yours.

    Having empathy for people you consider weaker than yourself, for whatever subjective reason that may be, in your Social Darwinist mindset, could be framed as an investment if you want to think of that way. You're investing in this person and presuming with your time and support, they'll become stronger, in your own subjective definition of strength that is. As for the definition of bullying, it's developed a few different connotations.

    According to webster it is "a blustering, browbeating person; especially : one who is habitually cruel, insulting, or threatening to others who are weaker, smaller, or in some way vulnerable"

    Sound pretty similar to how I am presenting it. Though I digress, we can argue the definition all day, but I'm sure we can agree the connotation can vary. Clearly you had a more severe form of bullying, I don't think anybody will deny that, sorry you had to deal with it, but I don't think it gives you the platform to negate the validity of other who are being bullied, whether it is as severe as yours or not, and there are quite a few cases that are as severe as yours going on still. Which is why 2's video about that suicide shit, was, in my eyes sociopathic. I realize what you been through is by all means an extreme form of bullying, I'm not denying that, but that should be your incentive to try and help with the problem, rather than take it upon yourself to drawn lines in the sand and separate the "weak" from the "strong".
     
    Last edited: Mar 27, 2017
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  8. DusterBluepaw

    DusterBluepaw [creative custom title]

    I am aware of the whole keyboard warrior thing, but like back in my trolling days, i was not only doing it before i even knew about 4chan, but i was doing it in real life, like back in high school i owned a teacher simply because i said "oh im sick of these kids making such a big deal crying about how their parents got divorced" and the teacher told me "well my daughter didn't take my divorce that well, you shouldn't talk like that" and i just responded with "yeah well if you havent seen your own mother on the ground in a pool of blood then you have nothing to complain about" and the room just went quiet and the teacher changed the subject.

    What ever happened to the old saying "sticks and stones may break my bones but words will never hurt me"? i copped a ton of verbal abuse, especially at the time my mother passed, those "ya mum" jokes got popular in australia, i was called a name because at the time i was quite short compared to the other kids, and yeah it messed with my head, one year i didn't have a day where i didn't cry, but that is life, some people get the shitty end of the stick.
    I dont condone suicide, i condone getting a backbone and just kicking away all the shit flung your way, i believe if i didn't go through the things i went through, i wouldn't be who i am today, special snowflakes are those people who either make up or self diagnose mental issues, i really recommend you watch andywarski on youtube, his interview with an ex feminist goes on about the whole special snowflake syndrome, and the ex feminist even mentioned a lot tend to be in fandoms funny enough, after seeing the shows 2 did at AC i thought the furry fandom was exempt from this, but recently ive seen it not to be the case.

    I guess all i have else to say is wisdom and thick skin is a perk you get from suffering.
     
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  9. DusterBluepaw

    DusterBluepaw [creative custom title]

    Ok well first the ISIS thing was just an example, what i mean is say your family is killed, what do you do, give up and kill yourself? or go out and seek revenge?
    Ok see im just going to give up, i have personality disorders and can flip in an instant from different moods, well when i had friends people would always come to me for advice, because i was just so open, i guess this whole weak vs strong thing is just me basically saying oh ive suffered more then you, so that means im stronger.. i dunno i guess it depends on the severity of whats being done or said, but then there are some people who are just a lost cause, you try and helpthem then they complain of the same shit
     
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  10. Lcs

    Lcs Well-Known Member

    That's really not something you should be bragging about - that's just fucked. From what I gather by reading that text, she was probably silent because you said something really insensitive and awkward, not because you "owned" her.

    You basically just proved that the phrase "sticks and stones may break my bones, but words will never hurt me" is untrue. Since you know that getting words slung at you hurts badly when you're vulnerable, why would you call people who may be in a similar situation to you a special snowflake and then defend the people who are dishing out insults and who encourage vulnerable people to commit suicide?

    You say that you don't condone suicide, yet I can quite clearly see your initial post where you say that you agree with 2Gryphon.

    Someone in this thread already mentioned in this thread why such thinking is unfair and flawed.

    I have sympathy for people who self-diagnose themselves with mental issues. If they are self-diagnosing themself with depression or something similar, then chances are that they either do suffer from abuse in some way or they do have some sort of problem. As for your comment on those who fake having mental issues, I must say that I have serious doubts that there are many people who do this.
     
    Last edited: Mar 27, 2017
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  11. KimberVaile

    KimberVaile Edgy teenage apathy.

    Right, my point about ISIS is that they encourage the "noble Sacrifice" ideal it's ingrained in the culture they were brought up in , so of course the more bloodshed option seems appealing to them. Really the more bloodshed argument seem like as much as a poor choice as offing yourself. Ideally, you'd want to be proactive and spread a message about what's actually going on in your country and why this bloodshed is happening. I personalty feel information is more powerful than primal, animalistic violence.

    Sure, some people never change, some people are more inclined towards depression, anxiety and self loathing, people just tend to vary that way. If you don't want to invest the time trying to help them, don't do it, that's your choice to make, not mine. Is a little tough love necessary sometimes? Of course. Just as empathy is a requirement to healing in these cases. Extremes of anything will never help anybody. Saying suicidal people should kill themselves is extreme and sociopathic. Saying that that everything is gonna be ok and mommma will kiss all your boo boos and you don't have to go to school anymore is also extreme. Extreme coddling is bound to breed bad habits. So let us just avoid these extremes here. Let's stray away from the whole edgelord, only the strongest will survive mindset. Similarly, let's avoid the no mean words or criticism past this mark, extreme coddling. At the very least, we can all benefit from thoughtful criticism.
     
    Last edited: Mar 27, 2017
  12. DusterBluepaw

    DusterBluepaw [creative custom title]

    I dont know i guess my personalities just make me a hypocrite, i will think one thing then change my mind later.. i know i shouldn't really like mention what i said first but it comes back to the whole thing i have where i feel like because ive been and still am going through hard times that im better then others who crumble under minor things..

    self-diagnoses has so many problems, there is feeling depressed, then there is actually clinical depression, yes some may have problems, but then there are others who just do it for attention.

    ugh, i cant help the way i am, people say oh just be yourself and you will make friends, well i guess this is why i have one, coz im a fucking idiot lunatic.
     
  13. DusterBluepaw

    DusterBluepaw [creative custom title]

    I guess you are right, both extremes are bad and you just have to find a middle ground
     
  14. Jack Belinski

    Jack Belinski Hero of the Union

    Tha
    Thats the problem inherent with the internet, there is very little middle ground. Because the internet is a place of few consequences, people are encouraged to share their opinion as it is, without compromise. Therefor, you end up with opinions ranging from the extreme left to the extreme right, and very little middle ground.
     
  15. Troj

    Troj Well-Known Member

    Summary of my thoughts on the topic:

    1) By unceremoniously yanking the rug out from beneath 2 and his fans with no explanation, AC has basically created the perfect conditions for a multi-month dramastorm. Whatever their intentions might've been here--good, bad, smart, dumb, or indifferent--this was not the right, constructive, or smart way to approach this. There are other, better ways they could've tackled this sticky wicket.

    2) Yes, there are SJWs who don't understand things like subtext, context, irony, satire, or basic human interaction. The people accusing 2 of being a literal Nazi strike me was generally young, naive SJW-types who want to look and feel virtuous and who've never encountered true evil (and that includes actual Neo-Nazis). You can criticize someone without calling them a Nazi, and someone can be entirely worthy of criticism without being a literal Nazi. To a certain extent, people should also realize that ducks will squack, birds will tweet, and comedians who are known for being edgy or shocking will continue to work that angle.

    3) That said, 2 has said some things in the past which absolutely warrant some kind of critique or criticism, and it's disingenuous to say anyone who takes issue with something he's said must be a dumb SJW who either doesn't appreciate or isn't familiar with his material.

    The main issue I see is that sometimes, it's not clear where his jokes end and his real opinions begin, because the difference between his persona and his real self is likewise a bit ambiguous. If people are unclear on whether 2 is meant to be a social commentator like Lewis Black, Lenny Bruce, Jon Stewart, or a George Carlin, or more of a shock comic like Lisa Lampanelli or Andrew Dice Clay, or more of a character actor like Andy Kaufman or Larry the Cable Guy, they may get understandably upset when he appears to give his audience bad advice or makes ignorant statements that appear to come "from the heart."

    Especially in this current political climate, people are extremely sensitive to others using "just joking" as a kind of get-out-of-jail-free-card for saying genuinely mean-spirited and shitty stuff.

    In my view, 2's aforementioned quips and rants about suicide and trans people ultimately bombed not because they related to edgy or controversial topics, but because they were rooted in some pretty glaring and stupid misconceptions about the topics at hand, and because their ultimate purpose or intention was unclear.

    4) If you're not a mental health professional or someone who has in-depth personal experience with mental illness and/or various forms of human suffering, you should think twice before just spouting off about what mentally-ill or emotionally-distraught people "should" do. You should also remind yourself that you are not everyone, and that everyone isn't you.

    5) Similarly, everybody who hasn't earnestly researched gender and sexuality--and that includes the biology, the anthropology, the sociology, the psychology, the relevant legal issues, and other facets of the subject--and/or who has never had meaningful contact with a trans, gender dysphoric, or gender variant person needs to shut the hell up about what trans people are supposedly like, what their major malfunction is, or what they ought to think, feel, or do.

    6) I'm inclined to agree with others here that if he cares about this fandom--which I believe he genuinely does--2 should ideally keep his audience in mind when he tells his jokes. The majority of 2's fans are young whippersnappers, and we know that furries as a class often struggle with bullying and ostracism, social adjustment, depression and anxiety, and social skills and awareness, so it makes sense to not throw gas on preexisting fires if you can help it.

    This does not mean that 2 should neuter his act and make it the Family Circus Snuggle-Fun Safe Space Hour. But, there's a big difference between saying "fuck" or just being generally edgy or controversial, and sending your audience away with stupid, inaccurate, or potentially-harmful beliefs and attitudes, like "If online bullying upsets a person, they're a beta cuck who just needs to commit suicide," or "Trans people have a habit of just picking whatever bathroom they're in the mood to use today."
     
    Last edited: Mar 27, 2017
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  16. Perri_Rhoades

    Perri_Rhoades Member

    That was not the nature of 2's "Gore News" segments. Their purpose was to illustrate, in a humorous fashion, that there was a rising serious problem of rampant stupidity that was getting people killed so frequently that there wasn't enough time to cover them all in the weekly segment. This is what people who are only interested in targeting 2 never look close enough to understand. He actually cares about people and wants to improve these situations by exposing them. He accomplishes this by not taking stupid behavior seriously, or giving undue weight to it, as he sees giving serious attention to people who do die in stupid ways only encourages others to think they'll get desirable attention by needlessly killing themselves.

    2's message about suicide was that people should have more respect for themselves than to kill themselves for attention, and that people who give such attention will only encourage more to do it. Thus he laughs at them to discourage copycat suicides. But a small hate group setting itself up in the fandom took this out of context and began trolling him over it. In the heat of the trolling he suggested that, if one had so little respect for themselves and so little capacity for dealing with life, they probably weren't going to have anything but pain in life. Therefore they had a choice. They could steel themselves to accept that trolls are meaningless so they could survive, or they could kill themselves to avoid life. But if they went the latter route, choosing to ruin their own quality of life by insisting on being perpetual cry-babies, he wasn't going to pretend like he had any quality of life to offer them. Their problems were of their own making, and if that's what they wanted to do, he wasn't in a position to care. So they could go ahead and kill themselves if they wanted to, but he wouldn't be found shedding a tear or in any way honoring their stupidity by giving a flip.

    I actually find this message inspiring and refer back to it any time I find myself indulging in self-destructive behavior. Because he's right. I only do harmful things to myself when I'm suffering from a lack of self respect. That message might actually end up extending my life. So, while it's easy to jump on a high horse and start passing snap judgments on 2, those who regularly follow him know what he's getting at. And none of us would accuse him of being callous or not caring if people live or die. He's not telling people to commit suicide. He's trying to motivate them to live.
     
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  17. KimberVaile

    KimberVaile Edgy teenage apathy.

    The "intent" of the message does not matter. What matters is the execution, presentation and the audience. All I saw was relentless mocking of people who died via 'stupidity'. It doesn't matter what you argue, or what intent you read into it. The actions and words spoken are heinous irregardless. This is because the people spoken about through these words and actions are 1. the families of the supposedly stupid people with the intent to cater to the edgelords. 2. Suicidal people with the intent to cater to the edglords (his fanbase). And as I have already stated, having a rational conversation with a suicidal person is an unrealistic expectation. Expecting a suicidal person to NOT be discouraged or hurt by his words towards them is naive at best, and idiotic at worst. Additionally everybody's perception is variable, it is up to the comedian to tailor their message to have it's meaning easily interpretable, and 2 does not give much context behind the message other than social Darwinism is the shit and is important to today's society, suicidal people are dumb and probably deserve to die. A pretty shitty message if you ask me, but you are free to disagree with it as much as you want.

    It's a bit presumptuous to try and infer how 2 truly feels through his jokes, that's not a verifiable fact unless you talked to him personally. His purported view of suicidal people and their choice to kill themselves is ignorant and yet remarkably sanctimonious all at once. Claiming all suicidal people are better off dead irregardless of circumstance. It's not stupidity to feel suicidal, it's targeted, malicious hate that triggers these feelings and most people put under that sort of targeted hate at a young age would probably feel the same.

    It's funny cause I actually had a mirror image argument with somebody here already. So I'll say the same thing. You are not all suicidal people or people with suicidal thoughts, and it is an inherently weak argument to use yourself as a measuring stick. Human beings are varied and come with a myriad of different personality traits, not everybody will be the outlier and take inspiration from what I'm sure people might call "tough love". Most suicidal people would like some kind of emotional support, but that, that just crosses the line, and very few people would catch themselves dead giving empathy. I mean, that's just an emasculating thing do, and I mean, it's such bad social etiquette to ever admit your depressesed or to talk about gushy weak feelings so why would you? Am I right? Funny how our social culture discourages the right thing to do, to the extent that people find some warped sense of support in borderline socipathic shit said by comedians.
     
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2017
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  18. Perri_Rhoades

    Perri_Rhoades Member

    This kind of comment has been bugging me lately. You defend The Furry Raiders, that makes you a Nazi. You agree with 2 Gryphon, that means you condone suicide. These are not legitimate arguments. This is pretty much guilt by association with no logical thought behind it at all.

    Both assume that the accusing conclusion has been verified, when actually, both are a matter of unproven assumption. People in Furry Fandom are developing a horrendous tendency to believe the worst is true about somebody because of something they saw jammed into a tweet with its context deleted, or forcing their personal interpretations and opinions out into peoples' faces as fact, causing others to instantly take these things as fact as well.

    If a man says "I don't condone suicide, but I agree with 2 Gryphon," that means he does not interpret 2 Gryphon the way you do. He believes he heard something in what 2 said that you didn't get for some reason. And your interpretation is no more factual than his. Thus, agreeing or disagreeing with 2 Gryphon doesn't prove anything about anybody. It merely suggests that one should consider they might have misinterpreted something, listen to others say what they heard in it, and then go back and see if they begin to hear what they hear on another listen.

    It's called being open minded. And it's a generally good way to be.
     
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  19. Lcs

    Lcs Well-Known Member

    First off, I didn't say he did condone suicide, but rather I was just bringing up that he had agreed with 2Gryphon. Since 2Gryphon did encourage suicide - and yeah, I'm not buying your BS that he didn't - I saw it as at least a bit contradictory.

    Second off, what I find interesting is when people defend others for wrongdoings just because they can be interpreted to fit in with their beliefs elsewhere. In the case of the Raiders (since you brought it up), Foxler should have clarified what association he had to being a nazifur - whether he was just a hobbyist or an actual white supremacist. Instead, he lied about not knowing that his logo was similar to the nazi flag, he lied about not being a nazifur and he was manipulative in how he played innocent/ignorant. He could have just said he was hobbyist, but instead he provoked drama and used it to push his 'alt-furry' agenda by suggesting that anyone not on Raiders side was an SJW. Similarly, 2Gryphon was a bit deceitful and so were you in your initial post on this thread. Both you and him defended something wrong instead of being apologetic or accepting fault.
     
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2017
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  20. Yakamaru

    Yakamaru I stubbed my log on a car!

    People like jumping to conclusions, not do some actual research into what has actually been said, and the context of the matter. Intellectual dishonesty and cognitive dissonance is running rampant, especially now that identity politics, although the cancer that it is, is fucking everywhere. The Furry fandom is getting hit hard by this garbage, too, and quite frankly, more and more people are starting to consider leaving the fandom due to snowflakes and this easily-triggered SJW mentality that is spreading like a wildfire.

    It's the same with Sargon of Akkad, Paul Joseph Watson, Stefan Molyneux, Tommy Robinson, etc. They are called everything from racists to fascists to Nazis and Holocaust-deniers. And yet, if you go and actually listen to what they are saying, not to mention UNDERSTAND what they are saying and where they are coming from, you know that the ones calling them fascists, Nazis, etc, are uttering pure bullshit.

    These people are ideologues. They are not open-minded even though they claim to be. These people do not care about who they hurt/ruin and what damage they cause in the process. THEY are in the right, everyone else is wrong and a X(Insert buzzword here). For well over a hundred years we've had to have compromises with the Left. And the Right is fucking sick of it. Sick of ideology coming before facts. Sick of ideology coming before the merits of the individual.

    For the past decade I've been leaning more and more towards the Right due to everything from the trash that is BLM to ANTIFA and SJW's, not to mention feminists(I'm a Centrist, but a decade ago I were a lot more Left-leaning). ALL ruining the west and what we've built and achieved up over the millennia.

    It's infuriating to see triggered-happy morons going out of their way to be offended on someone elses behalf, not to mention over completely trivial shit, like someone's OPINION on suicide, or someone's OPINION on assisted suicide.
     
  21. KimberVaile

    KimberVaile Edgy teenage apathy.

    So somebody proclaiming that suicidal people deserve to die should be met with primal declarations of jubilation instead of any sort of disgust at what is being said? Is that what I am reading from this, or am I mistaken?
     
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  22. Perri_Rhoades

    Perri_Rhoades Member

    First of all, 2's comments were not directed at all suicidal people. That is not a matter of interpretation. His comments were specifically aimed at one single person who killed herself in order to make the trolls who bullied her sorry. Everything he said on the subject was relevant only to people being trolled on the internet. His message was that killing yourself to make a troll sorry is idiotic, and that is not a matter of opinion. Expecting anything to make a troll feel remorse is utterly futile and idiotic to go through with.

    Thus, since you are working on the misinterpretation that he was speaking to all suicidal people, you're not really in a good position to be telling other people their interpretations and reactions to the content are less valid than yours.

    To say the intent of the content does not count in judging whether a person should be punished for the content, if pursued to its ultimate end, will render the English language useless, as no man would dare say "Good Morning" for fear that someone might interpret it as a personal attack that justifies ruining their life.

    It is not possible, and certainly not reasonable to demand that 2 try to anticipate how every person in the world might misinterpret his words, so that he might perform the impossible task of guaranteeing no one will be offended or otherwise take his words the wrong way

    Because I've followed 2 for 10 years, I feel confident in my assessment that 2 is the kind of conscientious person who probably edits anything he anticipates would be potentially harmful to people. So it shouldn't be a forgone conclusion that he just runs off at the face without considering the effect of his words. But it can not be required of him that he be perfect at it.

    As for how to deal with suicidal people, there are different schools of thought on the matter. Some people might benefit from being coddled, others might need tough love. 2 obviously thinks young people need to be hardened against trolls, because trolls are a fact of life that nothing is going to make go away, and there's not going to always be somebody around to coddle them when trolls strike. Thus, 2's strategy makes sense.

    But then again, 2 is not a licensed psychiatrist, nor are any of us who are likely to find ourselves suddenly in the position of being the one a suicidal person is looking to for a way to keep going. So we are all required to do the best thing we can think of to help the situation. Personally, I don't know any better way to help a person dying of the futility of dealing with trolls other than to strengthen them by helping them see trolls as irrelevant. I encourage them to see what the trolls say as unimportant, because nobody loves or values a troll, but people do love and value the person being bullied. Thus, when they begin to see how only the people who love them will be hurt by their suicide, and that the trolls will feel no remorse, hopefully this will get them through.

    Now, I suppose you are in the camp that thinks coddling is best for a person in that situation. That's your opinion, and I'm not qualified to say whether it's a good opinion or not. But neither are you qualified to evaluate my strategy. None of us can ever know if we're doing the right thing, but we still have to do something, and we have to go with whatever we can think of.

    Now, 2 knows he's making a video that's going to be seen by a lot of people. So he's going to offer the best advice he can think to give. It might not be exactly the same advice you or I would give, but it's the best he can come up with. So, we might say, "I wouldn't have said that," or "I would have said that differently," but that doesn't put us in a position to know what we would have said would have been more effective. The only way to gage the effectiveness of 2's advice is to look at the results. Do you see a lot of people committing suicide after watching it? Or do you get testimony that his advice was helpful?

    But you don't want to hear testimony to the effectiveness of the content. You've had two people who benefitted from the content come in here and told them nothing they have to say matters. You want to judge the content strictly on your opinion, when we have already established that your opinion is flawed. And telling people what they have to say is of no consequence is a good way of damaging their sense of self-worth and pushing them back towards suicide. It is actually a subtle form of cyberbullying I'm particularly vulnerable to. And the only reason I'm not now spiraling down into depression is because I'm thinking of 2, who is strong against such things, and I take strength from him.

    So, you see, though you are entitled to hold an opinion 2's strategies, if you are offered evidence that they work, you have business to give it consideration before you dedicate yourself to 2's condemnation.
     
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2017
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  23. Yakamaru

    Yakamaru I stubbed my log on a car!

    One word: Context.

    Take out the context and you can quite easily apply almost anything to what has been said/stated.
     
  24. Perri_Rhoades

    Perri_Rhoades Member

    2 did not encourage suicide. That's just your misinterpretation.

    There is no such thing as a Nazifur, as we now have the input of actual Neo-Nazis that the concept is laughable. (See link below) That anyone would ask the question shows the most incredible stupidity, as it is required to be white and straight to be a white supremacist. Foxler Miller is a gay half-breed in a relationship with a black man, not to mention being a Furry, which Nazis see as something needing extermination. And if Furries can be so ignorant of what Nazis are that they would ever think to ask such a man if he's a white supremacist, why should it be assumed Foxler was lying about his own ignorance of the subject?

    I see no evidence that anything Foxler would have said would have made any difference. The truth is he's had videos on YouTube explaining every aspect of the situation for quite a while, but none of the haters want to look at those. Tweets are most effective for keeping a hate movement going.

    No one was deceitful. The worst that can be said of Foxler is that he's inarticulate and often downright terrible at explaining himself, and 2 Gryphon has no need to be dishonest. If he wanted to be dishonest he could have back peddled on his content. Standing behind what one believes is not deception. As for myself, all I'll say is this, if everyone who disagrees with you is deceptive, or a Nazi, or any other label you choose to stick on them to avoid reevaluating your opinions . . . I don't even think it's worth bothering trying to explain what that indicates.

    Rocky Mountain Fur Con canceled following neo-Nazi associations, tax irregularities | flayrah
     
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2017
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  25. Perri_Rhoades

    Perri_Rhoades Member

    It's a sad thing about America. Everyone's entitled to their opinions. But don't worry. I'm sure that will be done away with soon.

    You know, I have not agreed with everything 2 Gryphon has ever said. But I would still defend to the death his right to say it.
     
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