2 The Ranting Gryphon

Discussion in 'Furry Conventions' started by amatus, Mar 15, 2017.

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Should 2 The Ranting Gryphon be at anthrocon?

Poll closed Mar 22, 2017.
  1. Yes

    60.0%
  2. No

    40.0%
  1. Perri_Rhoades

    Perri_Rhoades Member

    That was not the nature of 2's "Gore News" segments. Their purpose was to illustrate, in a humorous fashion, that there was a rising serious problem of rampant stupidity that was getting people killed so frequently that there wasn't enough time to cover them all in the weekly segment. This is what people who are only interested in targeting 2 never look close enough to understand. He actually cares about people and wants to improve these situations by exposing them. He accomplishes this by not taking stupid behavior seriously, or giving undue weight to it, as he sees giving serious attention to people who do die in stupid ways only encourages others to think they'll get desirable attention by needlessly killing themselves.

    2's message about suicide was that people should have more respect for themselves than to kill themselves for attention, and that people who give such attention will only encourage more to do it. Thus he laughs at them to discourage copycat suicides. But a small hate group setting itself up in the fandom took this out of context and began trolling him over it. In the heat of the trolling he suggested that, if one had so little respect for themselves and so little capacity for dealing with life, they probably weren't going to have anything but pain in life. Therefore they had a choice. They could steel themselves to accept that trolls are meaningless so they could survive, or they could kill themselves to avoid life. But if they went the latter route, choosing to ruin their own quality of life by insisting on being perpetual cry-babies, he wasn't going to pretend like he had any quality of life to offer them. Their problems were of their own making, and if that's what they wanted to do, he wasn't in a position to care. So they could go ahead and kill themselves if they wanted to, but he wouldn't be found shedding a tear or in any way honoring their stupidity by giving a flip.

    I actually find this message inspiring and refer back to it any time I find myself indulging in self-destructive behavior. Because he's right. I only do harmful things to myself when I'm suffering from a lack of self respect. That message might actually end up extending my life. So, while it's easy to jump on a high horse and start passing snap judgments on 2, those who regularly follow him know what he's getting at. And none of us would accuse him of being callous or not caring if people live or die. He's not telling people to commit suicide. He's trying to motivate them to live.
     
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  2. KimberVaile

    KimberVaile Edgy teenage apathy.

    The "intent" of the message does not matter. What matters is the execution, presentation and the audience. All I saw was relentless mocking of people who died via 'stupidity'. It doesn't matter what you argue, or what intent you read into it. The actions and words spoken are heinous irregardless. This is because the people spoken about through these words and actions are 1. the families of the supposedly stupid people with the intent to cater to the edgelords. 2. Suicidal people with the intent to cater to the edglords (his fanbase). And as I have already stated, having a rational conversation with a suicidal person is an unrealistic expectation. Expecting a suicidal person to NOT be discouraged or hurt by his words towards them is naive at best, and idiotic at worst. Additionally everybody's perception is variable, it is up to the comedian to tailor their message to have it's meaning easily interpretable, and 2 does not give much context behind the message other than social Darwinism is the shit and is important to today's society, suicidal people are dumb and probably deserve to die. A pretty shitty message if you ask me, but you are free to disagree with it as much as you want.

    It's a bit presumptuous to try and infer how 2 truly feels through his jokes, that's not a verifiable fact unless you talked to him personally. His purported view of suicidal people and their choice to kill themselves is ignorant and yet remarkably sanctimonious all at once. Claiming all suicidal people are better off dead irregardless of circumstance. It's not stupidity to feel suicidal, it's targeted, malicious hate that triggers these feelings and most people put under that sort of targeted hate at a young age would probably feel the same.

    It's funny cause I actually had a mirror image argument with somebody here already. So I'll say the same thing. You are not all suicidal people or people with suicidal thoughts, and it is an inherently weak argument to use yourself as a measuring stick. Human beings are varied and come with a myriad of different personality traits, not everybody will be the outlier and take inspiration from what I'm sure people might call "tough love". Most suicidal people would like some kind of emotional support, but that, that just crosses the line, and very few people would catch themselves dead giving empathy. I mean, that's just an emasculating thing do, and I mean, it's such bad social etiquette to ever admit your depressesed or to talk about gushy weak feelings so why would you? Am I right? Funny how our social culture discourages the right thing to do, to the extent that people find some warped sense of support in borderline socipathic shit said by comedians.
     
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2017
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  3. Perri_Rhoades

    Perri_Rhoades Member

    This kind of comment has been bugging me lately. You defend The Furry Raiders, that makes you a Nazi. You agree with 2 Gryphon, that means you condone suicide. These are not legitimate arguments. This is pretty much guilt by association with no logical thought behind it at all.

    Both assume that the accusing conclusion has been verified, when actually, both are a matter of unproven assumption. People in Furry Fandom are developing a horrendous tendency to believe the worst is true about somebody because of something they saw jammed into a tweet with its context deleted, or forcing their personal interpretations and opinions out into peoples' faces as fact, causing others to instantly take these things as fact as well.

    If a man says "I don't condone suicide, but I agree with 2 Gryphon," that means he does not interpret 2 Gryphon the way you do. He believes he heard something in what 2 said that you didn't get for some reason. And your interpretation is no more factual than his. Thus, agreeing or disagreeing with 2 Gryphon doesn't prove anything about anybody. It merely suggests that one should consider they might have misinterpreted something, listen to others say what they heard in it, and then go back and see if they begin to hear what they hear on another listen.

    It's called being open minded. And it's a generally good way to be.
     
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  4. Lcs

    Lcs Well-Known Member

    First off, I didn't say he did condone suicide, but rather I was just bringing up that he had agreed with 2Gryphon. Since 2Gryphon did encourage suicide - and yeah, I'm not buying your BS that he didn't - I saw it as at least a bit contradictory.

    Second off, what I find interesting is when people defend others for wrongdoings just because they can be interpreted to fit in with their beliefs elsewhere. In the case of the Raiders (since you brought it up), Foxler should have clarified what association he had to being a nazifur - whether he was just a hobbyist or an actual white supremacist. Instead, he lied about not knowing that his logo was similar to the nazi flag, he lied about not being a nazifur and he was manipulative in how he played innocent/ignorant. He could have just said he was hobbyist, but instead he provoked drama and used it to push his 'alt-furry' agenda by suggesting that anyone not on Raiders side was an SJW. Similarly, 2Gryphon was a bit deceitful and so were you in your initial post on this thread. Both you and him defended something wrong instead of being apologetic or accepting fault.
     
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2017
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  5. Yakamaru

    Yakamaru Animu Wolf

    People like jumping to conclusions, not do some actual research into what has actually been said, and the context of the matter. Intellectual dishonesty and cognitive dissonance is running rampant, especially now that identity politics, although the cancer that it is, is fucking everywhere. The Furry fandom is getting hit hard by this garbage, too, and quite frankly, more and more people are starting to consider leaving the fandom due to snowflakes and this easily-triggered SJW mentality that is spreading like a wildfire.

    It's the same with Sargon of Akkad, Paul Joseph Watson, Stefan Molyneux, Tommy Robinson, etc. They are called everything from racists to fascists to Nazis and Holocaust-deniers. And yet, if you go and actually listen to what they are saying, not to mention UNDERSTAND what they are saying and where they are coming from, you know that the ones calling them fascists, Nazis, etc, are uttering pure bullshit.

    These people are ideologues. They are not open-minded even though they claim to be. These people do not care about who they hurt/ruin and what damage they cause in the process. THEY are in the right, everyone else is wrong and a X(Insert buzzword here). For well over a hundred years we've had to have compromises with the Left. And the Right is fucking sick of it. Sick of ideology coming before facts. Sick of ideology coming before the merits of the individual.

    For the past decade I've been leaning more and more towards the Right due to everything from the trash that is BLM to ANTIFA and SJW's, not to mention feminists(I'm a Centrist, but a decade ago I were a lot more Left-leaning). ALL ruining the west and what we've built and achieved up over the millennia.

    It's infuriating to see triggered-happy morons going out of their way to be offended on someone elses behalf, not to mention over completely trivial shit, like someone's OPINION on suicide, or someone's OPINION on assisted suicide.
     
  6. KimberVaile

    KimberVaile Edgy teenage apathy.

    So somebody proclaiming that suicidal people deserve to die should be met with primal declarations of jubilation instead of any sort of disgust at what is being said? Is that what I am reading from this, or am I mistaken?
     
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  7. Perri_Rhoades

    Perri_Rhoades Member

    First of all, 2's comments were not directed at all suicidal people. That is not a matter of interpretation. His comments were specifically aimed at one single person who killed herself in order to make the trolls who bullied her sorry. Everything he said on the subject was relevant only to people being trolled on the internet. His message was that killing yourself to make a troll sorry is idiotic, and that is not a matter of opinion. Expecting anything to make a troll feel remorse is utterly futile and idiotic to go through with.

    Thus, since you are working on the misinterpretation that he was speaking to all suicidal people, you're not really in a good position to be telling other people their interpretations and reactions to the content are less valid than yours.

    To say the intent of the content does not count in judging whether a person should be punished for the content, if pursued to its ultimate end, will render the English language useless, as no man would dare say "Good Morning" for fear that someone might interpret it as a personal attack that justifies ruining their life.

    It is not possible, and certainly not reasonable to demand that 2 try to anticipate how every person in the world might misinterpret his words, so that he might perform the impossible task of guaranteeing no one will be offended or otherwise take his words the wrong way

    Because I've followed 2 for 10 years, I feel confident in my assessment that 2 is the kind of conscientious person who probably edits anything he anticipates would be potentially harmful to people. So it shouldn't be a forgone conclusion that he just runs off at the face without considering the effect of his words. But it can not be required of him that he be perfect at it.

    As for how to deal with suicidal people, there are different schools of thought on the matter. Some people might benefit from being coddled, others might need tough love. 2 obviously thinks young people need to be hardened against trolls, because trolls are a fact of life that nothing is going to make go away, and there's not going to always be somebody around to coddle them when trolls strike. Thus, 2's strategy makes sense.

    But then again, 2 is not a licensed psychiatrist, nor are any of us who are likely to find ourselves suddenly in the position of being the one a suicidal person is looking to for a way to keep going. So we are all required to do the best thing we can think of to help the situation. Personally, I don't know any better way to help a person dying of the futility of dealing with trolls other than to strengthen them by helping them see trolls as irrelevant. I encourage them to see what the trolls say as unimportant, because nobody loves or values a troll, but people do love and value the person being bullied. Thus, when they begin to see how only the people who love them will be hurt by their suicide, and that the trolls will feel no remorse, hopefully this will get them through.

    Now, I suppose you are in the camp that thinks coddling is best for a person in that situation. That's your opinion, and I'm not qualified to say whether it's a good opinion or not. But neither are you qualified to evaluate my strategy. None of us can ever know if we're doing the right thing, but we still have to do something, and we have to go with whatever we can think of.

    Now, 2 knows he's making a video that's going to be seen by a lot of people. So he's going to offer the best advice he can think to give. It might not be exactly the same advice you or I would give, but it's the best he can come up with. So, we might say, "I wouldn't have said that," or "I would have said that differently," but that doesn't put us in a position to know what we would have said would have been more effective. The only way to gage the effectiveness of 2's advice is to look at the results. Do you see a lot of people committing suicide after watching it? Or do you get testimony that his advice was helpful?

    But you don't want to hear testimony to the effectiveness of the content. You've had two people who benefitted from the content come in here and told them nothing they have to say matters. You want to judge the content strictly on your opinion, when we have already established that your opinion is flawed. And telling people what they have to say is of no consequence is a good way of damaging their sense of self-worth and pushing them back towards suicide. It is actually a subtle form of cyberbullying I'm particularly vulnerable to. And the only reason I'm not now spiraling down into depression is because I'm thinking of 2, who is strong against such things, and I take strength from him.

    So, you see, though you are entitled to hold an opinion 2's strategies, if you are offered evidence that they work, you have business to give it consideration before you dedicate yourself to 2's condemnation.
     
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2017
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  8. Yakamaru

    Yakamaru Animu Wolf

    One word: Context.

    Take out the context and you can quite easily apply almost anything to what has been said/stated.
     
  9. Perri_Rhoades

    Perri_Rhoades Member

    2 did not encourage suicide. That's just your misinterpretation.

    There is no such thing as a Nazifur, as we now have the input of actual Neo-Nazis that the concept is laughable. (See link below) That anyone would ask the question shows the most incredible stupidity, as it is required to be white and straight to be a white supremacist. Foxler Miller is a gay half-breed in a relationship with a black man, not to mention being a Furry, which Nazis see as something needing extermination. And if Furries can be so ignorant of what Nazis are that they would ever think to ask such a man if he's a white supremacist, why should it be assumed Foxler was lying about his own ignorance of the subject?

    I see no evidence that anything Foxler would have said would have made any difference. The truth is he's had videos on YouTube explaining every aspect of the situation for quite a while, but none of the haters want to look at those. Tweets are most effective for keeping a hate movement going.

    No one was deceitful. The worst that can be said of Foxler is that he's inarticulate and often downright terrible at explaining himself, and 2 Gryphon has no need to be dishonest. If he wanted to be dishonest he could have back peddled on his content. Standing behind what one believes is not deception. As for myself, all I'll say is this, if everyone who disagrees with you is deceptive, or a Nazi, or any other label you choose to stick on them to avoid reevaluating your opinions . . . I don't even think it's worth bothering trying to explain what that indicates.

    Rocky Mountain Fur Con canceled following neo-Nazi associations, tax irregularities | flayrah
     
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2017
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  10. Perri_Rhoades

    Perri_Rhoades Member

    It's a sad thing about America. Everyone's entitled to their opinions. But don't worry. I'm sure that will be done away with soon.

    You know, I have not agreed with everything 2 Gryphon has ever said. But I would still defend to the death his right to say it.
     
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  11. Lcs

    Lcs Well-Known Member

    Yes he did encourage suicide - by saying that vulnerable people should commit suicide, he was encouraging. By the way, I've already seen his Youtube video on the subject a while ago and I got the impression that he lacks empathy and an understanding of suicidal people.

    This is a nazifur:
    Nazi Furs - WikiFur, the furry encyclopedia

    They are furries that are interested in the WW2 era stuff, hence why I said Foxler may be a hobbyist. That in mind, I think you totally misunderstood what I wrote.

    Anyways, yes, Foxler is deceitful as can be seen by the many times that he has lied and pretended that he has no association to nazifurs. I mean, he made an enormously big deal out of something when he could have just explained fully that all the links between him and other nazifurs were harmless. Instead he chose to play ignorant and provoke drama.
     
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2017
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  12. KimberVaile

    KimberVaile Edgy teenage apathy.

    Yet, I am not talking about just the video, I apologize for not making that clear, but these instances also includes tweets and youtube comments.

    From what he had to say about the video, it seems he made it very clear on were he stands. As for his actual video content. I had originally thought he had made a tweet in which he expanded this statement to all suicide victims, but since I can't find it I'll defer to you on that. I could be misremembering things, I freely admit I can be misinformed in that particular area, so I'll trust your judgment on whether he has or has not made a tweet along those lines, as you have more exposure to him than I do.

    Yes the video in particular was geared towards people being insulted via the internet, and my stance still stands, if your actively going encourage people who take their life through cyberbullying it's still deplorable. We're still talking about mentally immature kids, targeted harassment and subsequent suicides still happen via cyberbullying, the fact that its' the internet is often used to dismiss the argument entirely, which is rather disingenuous. Are we really expecting kids to be rational?

    I didn't say yours was less valid, only that there really is no definitive proof of intent, though I did imply that, so I apologize for that.

    In tandem with the context of the video specifically, a comedy video, everything hinges on presentation and execution, his field carries a unique weight, his comedy, being predicated on shock and social commentary demands careful consideration for his work, and if his execution and presentation is not up to par, people can misinterpret it. For something as serious as cyberbullying and suicides from that, it's a pretty important thing to be methodical about. Normally, I'd not be such a stickler for that, but these conditions, in my eyes, demands a level of accountability and consideration. So no, I don't expect 2 to try and forge his words with the consideration with everybody in the world, I never said that, and I agree it's unrealistic. Let me put it out there, I don't mind people finding offense in non pc humor, that doesn't bother me. Suicide video? Yeah that shit bothers me, he shouldn't have made the video to be honest.

    Were the roles reversed I wouldn't have been able to live with myself knowing I could have pushed somebody close to suicide. Though, I'm aware 2 isn't a bleeding heart, he's the prototypical Stern-eque shock Jock, maybe he just wouldn't have cared if somebody drew closer to suicide through or even if somebody ended up killing themselves. I don't know, and I will never claim to know, I don't know him personally. It's this whole concept of focusing on subjects that are not mentally healthy enough to take that stuff in stride. Were the subjects mentally healthy individuals, it'd be a different story.

    Yes you are right, I strongly believe in a case by case basis, which is why I object so strongly to 2's thinking. You really shouldn't lump people like that with such a critically sensitive issue. At the base of the issue I do believe people in that situation need some base amount of emotional support, sometimes somebody is geared more towards tough love, sometimes somebody is geared more towards 'coddling'. Those shoes don't all fit the same foot however. Hence my disgust with his video. So as to what camp pertains to my views? Case by case basis, I refuse to adhere to extremes.

    Disagree, 2's strategy is pretty awful, because again it lumps people into a hard locked this way is the right way mindset. Call it coddling or whatever you prefer, emotional support is far more helpful than somebody doubling down and offering more hurtful words. I understand good criticism can help, but to somebody below the age of 18, criticism and hurtful words are probably one and the same if you are being relentlessly bullied. So no, it is a destructive and fruitless train of thought to tell a 12 year old with shredded self esteem that, lol if you feel like killing yourself you fucking deserve it. Building empathy and offering emotional support is the first step in healing, it does not preclude other necessary steps for betterment. The base of healing through empathy is solidified by advice, the thing you suggest about ignoring trolls, that stuff needs to come after emotional healing. Both of these methods can coexist and in fact reinforce each other when used in tandem. This isn't a binary one or the other choice and should not be thought of as such.

    My big issue here, is the people who saw it and to the contrary, ended up feeling worse, which, let's not beat around the bush, there were more than a couple I am sure. If you enjoyed 2's video, I'm glad for you, but I don't think that makes his, this shoe must fit everybody's foot train of thought at all valid. If you want to argue I lack comprehension of his strategies that's your prerogative. I've never said that his video couldn't be of help to anybody, just that I think that in the grand scheme of things it had a more negative than positive effect. Though, that's admittedly a subjective view.
     
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  13. KimberVaile

    KimberVaile Edgy teenage apathy.

    I never implied 2 should ever be censored, and oppose that notion, just because I find disgust in his statements does not mean I want to enforce censorship.
     
  14. Perri_Rhoades

    Perri_Rhoades Member

    Again, your opinion. Not necessarily taking in the context of what he was saying or your own ability to determine the existance of empathy. Let's just put it accurately. He said something you didn't like, and you disapproved of it. We can go with that.

    Oh, I remember them. Harmless lot. Not Nazis at all. And if there's something on the page that says Foxler was a member, I can't find it. But even if he were into WW2 RP, that wouldn't support accusations of him being a white supremacist. Nor does it support the existance of white supremacist Furries. But I don't see why you would assume someone who knew nothing about WW2 would want to participate in WW2 RP. Though, at whatever point he was trying to find out what he was accused of being, he might of contacted them, but I have no evidence to that effect.

    I can find no evidence that Foxler is a WW2 enthusiast. His group name is a Fallout reference, and he does not wear a Nazi uniform, just a paw band that happens to be red. If he was a uniform fetishist there would certainly be more to his outfit than that.

    Could be. The general use of the term Nazi in the fandom recently has been exclusively related to accusations of white supremacy. If one is talking about WW2 Furs, it is best to make the distinction.

    If you have evidence of this association I would like to see it. I have been investigating for months and found nothing to support the allegation.

    What other Nazi Furs is he associated with? Details please.
     
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  15. Lcs

    Lcs Well-Known Member

    Sure, it's my opinion that encouraging suicide is bad.

    -

    For clarities sake, nazifurs aren't exclusively interested in RP. For example, they can also just be people interested in the history of Germany during WW2 or they can even be fetishists. So if he is just a nazifur, which is what I would guess him to be, then his obsession with nazi related things is probably harmless.

    Anyways, I find it hard to believe that you have never seen any evidence of associations between him and something more malicious. Though even more unbelievable is that you seem to genuinely think that he has no knowledge of WW2. These are some screenshots that evidence Foxler being something more than just a leader of a furry group with armbands who knows nothing of WW2 (I'll put them in a spoiler to conserve space):

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    There are more suspicious images, but that's probably enough.

    Other than those, he also wears that armband which is almost identical to the nazi germany flag and armbands except that the swastika is exchanged for a paw, though even the paw keeps the same colour.

    Also, I'd argue that the idea of people thinking he's a white supremacist is understandable considering how he seems to be baiting people into believing this. If anything, his posting history and the videos he watches do warrant suspicion and I hope you can at least agree on this.
     
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2017
  16. Perri_Rhoades

    Perri_Rhoades Member

    Yeah, I've seen that before. Basically what I said. He's not babying people who talk about killing themselves over the most minor of BS. And when bugging the gryphon, one should expect his tact to erode with his patience, at which point he's like "Fine, go do it already." But again, the context is, "Go do it. I'm still not going to cry over someone that stupid." But since he knows they're only doing this to get attention, it's an effective strategy not to give it to them.

    I do actually cringe some times at his bluntness. But social media forces that. And really there are only two choices of what to do. Either beg the person not to kill themselves, which will encourage them to believe doing it will get the desired attention, or this tactic, which demonstrates no attention will be forthcoming, as well as possibly making them mad enough at him to motivate them to prove he's wrong about being worthless, and to do that they have to live.

    Personally, I wouldn't have the nerve to go this route. But then, people know and respect 2 more than me. His opinions matter to his fans. They wouldn't want to be seen worthless in his eyes. So maybe it will work for him. So far I haven't heard of any 2 fans committing suicide.

    No, we don't expect kids to be rational. But again, this is not encouragement. It's extreme discouragement in a way kids can relate to. It's the same way a cartoon superhero might come on as say "Drugs are for dopes," this video is "2 Gryphon says killing yourself over trolls is stupid." You'd be amazed how people look up to 2. If 2 says suicide is so stupid it makes him want to rant, it's something they don't want to be into.

    And what alternatives are available to approach this problem. Tell kids to buy guns to kill the trolls with? Make it a pity party for the dead girl that all the other kids would want? Nah, "You're favorite net hero with think you were a worthless waste of space if you kill yourself" seems the best option for reaching kids.

    For the video itself intent is pretty obvious. "This is dumb. This accomplishes nothing. No one will give a hang." The comments are harder to say, but I expect they continue the motivation of the video, which is to help kids toughen up.

     
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  17. Perri_Rhoades

    Perri_Rhoades Member

    Ah, my apologies. I misread you.

    Yes, if 2 creates something you have a problem with, you can always leave him a comment and let him know. But what happened to him over this video was far worse than censorship.
     
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  18. quoting_mungo

    quoting_mungo Administrator Staff Member

    Okay, some posts here are starting to stray too far into bashing individuals - while 2 is probably among the closest things furry fandom has to public figures, please try to keep your discussions of his and others' actions respectful. You can disagree with what someone has said or done without attacking them as persons.
     
  19. KimberVaile

    KimberVaile Edgy teenage apathy.

    Look, you can paint it anyway you want, it doesn't make his stance on it any less amicable, in my opinion. Considering his audience, and the social presence he has, it behooves him to carefully consider and account for what impact his words will have. It's important that somebody like 2, who has so many people look up to him that give a little more consideration to his word than a normal person. As you say, people look up to him, so it was unreasonably malicious to outright state something like that. The circumstances do not warrant it. Again it's really important with a subject like this, how the audience or viewer perceives it. The context for all intents and purposes can be read in a number of ways given the content. Pro Social darwinism/man the fuck up and shrug it off people!/people are getting dumber by the day. These are all valid inferences of what the context is considering all the content. No one interpretation of the context is valid, just as when you read a piece of literature, there is more than one way to see the theme based on the facts.

    Extreme discouragement. And this can't be paired with emotional support because? As I stated, going extreme is never the answer. You know what a kid's going to think? Wow, I guess I really am a waste of life, I fee like shit now. If however, you provide the pretext pf emotional support beforehand, the message is strengthened. Instead of being perceived as hostility, it's perceived as, this guy genuinely wants to help me. That pretext establishes character credibility and genuine concern. That seems like a way better alternative, not terribly hard one to achieve either, much better than, hey this guy you look up to thinks your a dumb twat.

    As for fans committing suicide, that's territory that is hard to verify if any impact was made on those who watched the video. Though, I'd imagine those hurt by it where disinclined to say anything. Considering these people were likely suicidal, they likely feared being hurt further by commenting, hence, unsurprisingly, they are presumably silent.

    As for the videos intent, I don't agree, it seemed geared more towards Social Darwinism, that seems obvious to me. This is a lot like how people seems to bicker and debate at the obvious themes in John Updike's A&P. Some say it's individualism vs collectivism, others say it's a criticism of capitalism. With that said, I still believe it's intent was geared more towards a advocation of social Darwinism in regards to these types of people he speaks of. His overarching message seemed to be less geared towards advice and more towards social commentary. Though one can argue I am reading far too into it.

    Also can you truly, definitively say without 2's words, you would have committed suicide? I would think you'd at least hesitate to give an answer. Please don't read this as me marginalizing the effect he had on you. It is not, I am merely saying, you may be overstating his intervention. I know this reply will probably get me some flack, but I truly believe his intervention may be overstated. I don't doubt it helped, but perhaps saved may be too strong a term, yes? To make another inference here I'd go out on a limb and presume you were at least 16 at the time you watched yes? Mature enough to learn from his criticism?

    As for how he is personally, I would not be opposed to speaking to him to learn of his intent, no, however, I also feel such a personal clarification would be a misuse of his time. I tend to try and respect the time of public figures as I am aware they have more hectic schedules, inspite of my intense disagreements with him. If for whatever reason he's lurking these forums and wishes to clarify things, by all means, I will not oppose that whether that be through Skype or PM or forum post, however for the time being I'm going to presume he doesn't want to bother and presumably is unaware of what is going on in the FAF. That's really the thing, if he's not aware of the FAF forums, that seems kind of rude to suddenly demand an explanation from a busy person. I would not feel that'd be appropriate social etiquette personally.
    I would like to make it clear that I do not hate him or anything of the like. He's still a human being at the end of the day even if some of the things he said were, in my opinion, incredibly shitty.

    Case by Case basis comment. - Just simply disagree, I'd hesitate to say it saved anybody, I won't hesitate to say it hurt people however. If your going to try and make a video with the intent on helping people, the establishment of the intent to help with some sort of emotional support would be important. 2's a creative guy, I'm sure he can work that in without it hurting his video. It'd be a hell of a lot better than this double edged swords that imo, is harming more than helping.

    As for the adult artist thing, please let's not go there. Alright? When I was a kid, I didn't give a rat's ass what was mature on YouTube or not, same went for movies and video games. This argument isn't being honest, you know kids do that. I'm not saying everything on YouTube needs to be tailored to include kids, but it's just important to consider for something as grave as suicide. I mean YouTube doesn't really have that many restrictions to begin with.
     
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2017
  20. Perri_Rhoades

    Perri_Rhoades Member

    I've seen all these before, except for the snitch story, which I don't know to trust since I don't know who wrote it or what their motivations were. I've had my own share of backstabbing former friends lie their tails off about me. The other stuff I have more detailed context on. They support his story of a period where he was interested in learning about Nazis after people started calling him one. Something he's expressed regret for.

    The manchild statement I'd agree with from my observations, but the "He's secretly very intelligent" thing I'd find a hard sell. One statement tends to contradict the other. That he was into trolling is supported. "God Complex?" I suppose could mean any number of things, particularly from someone he's had a falling out with.

    The screen cap of the fursuit comments is incomplete. And the pose is not a complete Nazi salute as he's not standing at attention. If he was trying for a Nazi salute this would indicate he's never even seen a WW2 movie. On the other had, he could just be striking a waving to somebody pose.

    Anyway, as always happens when somebody says they've got some specific dirt on him that I've been looking for confirmation of, I get these same items, and the requested confirmation is not there. I didn't see any evidence of him associating with other Nazi Furs.
     
    Yakamaru likes this.

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