FA Policy Notice - "Cub" Art

[GreenReaper]

I'm really just an onlooker to this, but . . . honestly, nobody ever said there had to be one art site that fit everyone's tastes, where everyone could agree on the rules and live in harmony. Perhaps that was the objective of Fur Affinity, but given that it's been described as "allowing people from the furry/anthro fandoms to upload art, music and stories regardless of rating", it doesn't sound like it.

No one site can be everything to everyone. Eventually, something has to give. I think this is why no decision could initially be made on banning people, even among the admins. There was an assumption that an agreement could be found between two mutually opposing views; that cub art should be allowed here, or that it should not.

Well, it turns out that it is. I believe this is because of the principle that is behind the site, and has been for as long as I've known it. I see this as "anything goes, as long as it's furry and legal for us to display". This is perhaps an oversimplification, but then I'm a simple norn.

Methods are available for those who want to remain here but don't want to see certain pieces of art. If this is not sufficient, then there are plenty of other places to go. Please don't go there in anger. But you should go, because to stay at a site when you don't agree with its principles is bad for everyone's happiness. We've had people find that they couldn't live with how WikiFur worked either. Life goes on, for all concerned.

Lastly, I don't think FA is going to get shut down over things people post here, given that the recent changes have been made with specific consideration of the applicable law. My understanding is that the vast majority of such cases focus around images appearing to be real people. People here are making drawings of imaginary furry people. The law recognizes a difference. Anyone suggesting otherwise, I want some of the cookies you're eating.

[Summercat]

I'm really just an onlooker to this, but . . . honestly, nobody ever said there had to be one art site that fit everyone's tastes, where everyone could agree on the rules and live in harmony. Perhaps that was the objective of Fur Affinity, but given that it's been described as "allowing people from the furry/anthro fandoms to upload art, music and stories regardless of rating", it doesn't sound like it.

No one site can be everything to everyone. Eventually, something has to give. I think this is why no decision could initially be made on banning people, even among the admins. There was an assumption that an agreement could be found between two mutually opposing views; that cub art should be allowed here, or that it should not.

Well, it turns out that it is. I believe this is because of the principle that is behind the site, and has been for as long as I've known it. I see this as "anything goes, as long as it's furry and legal for us to display". This is perhaps an oversimplification, but then I'm a simple norn.

Methods are available for those who want to remain here but don't want to see certain pieces of art. If this is not sufficient, then there are plenty of other places to go. Please don't go there in anger. But you should go, because to stay at a site when you don't agree with its principles is bad for everyone's happiness. We've had people find that they couldn't live with how WikiFur worked either. Life goes on, for all concerned.

Lastly, I don't think FA is going to get shut down over things people post here, given that the recent changes have been made with specific consideration of the applicable law. My understanding is that the vast majority of such cases focus around images appearing to be real people. People here are making drawings of imaginary furry people. The law recognizes a difference. Anyone suggesting otherwise, I want some of the cookies you're eating.

I have some brownies...

[GreenReaper]

I have some brownies...

Not anymore!

[Summercat]

I have some brownies...

Not anymore!

No, I still have some, just less than what I used to before I gave some to you.

[StoneHawk]

I've lost friends because of this. People who refuse to associate with me now that I continue associating with FurAffinity. Now, you might think that people like that must not be very good friends in the first place, but in all matters until this came up, they have been by my side through many thicks and many thins. It kind of hurts that FurAffinity has become the scalpel of this abrupt amputation.

I won't leave FurAffinity because it is the only one of its kind, the only community I know of that fulfills all THREE of the following:
a) it's FURRY!
b) it doesn't arbitrarily censor anything above R rating
c) it's still a community.

Maybe It'd be a little less painful if there were viable ALTERNATIVES that DO support all three of those points, but there's only ONE place like this right now and it's sort of shooting itself in its own foot with this issue.

Maybe IF
a) the filters worked
b) the owners of furaffinity would take NO RESPONSIBILTY for their content by signed and sealed disclaimers plastered everywhere ESPECIALLY where you must agree to its terms while you're signing up
c) the fringe stuff didn't get special attention.

nowhere but in the furry community could I ever expect to see entire sections RESERVED for Vore, Inflation, Pokemon, Sonic, hyperherms... ...christ, what happened to all the OLD tried and true fetish favorites like yuri >_<
I'm not saying "BAN IT ALL" or "IT ALL SUCKS AND SHOULD DIE", but I am asking someone to step forward if they like it and to explain to me why it's so bloody vital that these things get their very own private attention positions in an already furry-specific drop box x.x
I didn't think I'd see lobbying like that outside of washington...

[Luukra]

[Summercat]

I've lost friends because of this. People who refuse to associate with me now that I continue associating with FurAffinity. Now, you might think that people like that must not be very good friends in the first place, but in all matters until this came up, they have been by my side through many thicks and many thins. It kind of hurts that FurAffinity has become the scalpel of this abrupt amputation.

I won't leave FurAffinity because it is the only one of its kind, the only community I know of that fulfills all THREE of the following:
a) it's FURRY!
b) it doesn't arbitrarily censor anything above R rating
c) it's still a community.

Maybe It'd be a little less painful if there were viable ALTERNATIVES that DO support all three of those points, but there's only ONE place like this right now and it's sort of shooting itself in its own foot with this issue.

Maybe IF
a) the filters worked
b) the owners of furaffinity would take NO RESPONSIBILTY for their content by signed and sealed disclaimers plastered everywhere ESPECIALLY where you must agree to its terms while you're signing up
c) the fringe stuff didn't get special attention.

nowhere but in the furry community could I ever expect to see entire sections RESERVED for Vore, Inflation, Pokemon, Sonic, hyperherms... ...christ, what happened to all the OLD tried and true fetish favorites like yuri >_<
I'm not saying "BAN IT ALL" or "IT ALL SUCKS AND SHOULD DIE", but I am asking someone to step forward if they like it and to explain to me why it's so bloody vital that these things get their very own private attention positions in an already furry-specific drop box x.x
I didn't think I'd see lobbying like that outside of washington...

They get no more attention than anything else.

[Katzblager]

So Cub art.. is gonna be banned or just have an option to filter?

[Katzblager]

What IS cub Art?

[Summercat]

What IS cub Art?

Please read the first post by the threat creator. IT explains both your questions.

[Kuriin]

If you lost friends over this issue, then they weren't really friends to begin with.

[Arshes Nei]

I dunno, despite me meeting people from various art archives, I've always had a way to contact them OUTSIDE of the archive. If your friendship was just based on comments and notes, and you didn't get their IM and have a conversation outside of this I kinda wonder how close of a friend you were.

[Vekke]

this is spectacular

However... why are we thrusting it into the center stage? Surely it is a GOOD thing that we are not turning into thought police, but there are obviously socially detrimental facets of the self that, though healthy to come to terms and find peace with, are NOT necessarily healthy to show to complete strangers. All I'm saying is, the fur fandom's capability to accept and promote various outlandish lifestyles should be seen as a FEATURE, not a FLAW.

Can't we be satisfied to accept it but keep it to ourSELVES? This kind of lampooning and spotlighting of everything people find the most DETESTABLE about our interests borders on griefing against the entire community ;_; are you TRYING to feed more material to MTV!?

I'm only against the ban because stuff like rape and murder are already allowed, and it'd be hypocritical to ban cub art, because some of what is allowed is just as bad.

and think of the drama banning all the other stuff would cause. And then there would be drama about what is on that level of "terrible" and what isn't. I think allowing one more taboo thing would cause less drama than taking everything else out.

[KCat]

Some people would rather get their opinion in before the reader's tl;dr (too long; didn't read) instinct kicks in.

That's why you should refrain from quoting huge spans of text. :P Just quote the relevant part(s), and reply to it. Like this (note how I didn't quote your whole post? :P)

The problem with top-posting is context. Or lack there-of. Often times if someone just starts spouting a reply without a quote to put the reply into context, it'll make no sense. And that's more likely to make sure your post isn't read than even a long quote (or worse, is read, but gets mis-interpreted).

[Lt.Havoc]

Ya know, its sad, really. The whole thing. What pisses me off is, that I´m here and cant do anything about this all. A lot of good artists left the site, cuz´ of that one descion. I would really like to express my feelings, the anger, the sadness and all, but if I would do that, you guys had to ban me.

So, wehn will you post about it in the front page, so the people who dont know about the chages get to know it? I belive, if you do so, a lot more will leave the site. How many users has FA? Did you ever asked those who never saw the forum, did you ever though about them?

Well, the whole thing was perfect and now, its all destroyed. We all suffer from what happend. Everyone predicted the outcome, yet no one seemed to listen. A minority off people won over the mass, you made a descion wihch does not reflect the majority of the users on this site.

Well, just wait and see, the rest of the top artists, like MBR, GnaW and Geidon will follow suit and leave and I bet a lot will follow them. Its the death to this site, no other site had the varity of artists in one place before, now its gone.

No one thinks on us, the odenariy user, the art fan, we didnt had a voice, we didnt got asked what we think. It was wrong to make this descion and the time was too short to really think about all this. If this where truly democratic, then the Admins would have asked every user of FA what thier view and opinon is. The poll, I knew it was useless from the beginning on, still no one cared. The whole debate was useless, I wished the ToS stayed like they where before, it was all good back then.

That the admins where pushed by a small group of people to make this descion, that even an admin stepped down over it and that many left, is reason enough to belive that this whole thing was hirrued, only to please some loud screamers. Yeah, if you scream liud enough, you get what you want, thats how I feel about it.

You have no idea what box of pandora you opned, what gates of hell has be pushed open, did you guys really wanted all this, the drama, the insulsts, the leaving of good artists? Was it worth all that? I think the price was way too high we all have to pay now. I thimnk it was not worth it.

Many say "Wehn you ban cub porn, ban the rest too", but why not trun it around and say "wehn you allow cub porn, why not allow everything lese"? So, why not allow lolicona and shota, propaganda, racism, real people having sex, or having sex in a fursuit? I see it coming "we cant do that, thats gross!" or "its illegal!", sure it is, but I could relativate it and say "its just art, no one gets hurt" or "its just staged, its not real". I would force my opinon on you, just like some did in the whole debate.

Also, everyone was talking about respecting views and opinons, but ya know, no one respected the opinons of those, who opposed the allowance, but more then often where called "freedom hates" and "fachists", only while they gave reasons why it shouldnt be on the site. Who was the respect? If you truy respect the views of them and the other people on the site, you would have said "ok, then I think I´m going to post my art where its allowed and more accepted" but no one did, instead, everyone screamed how somone could take away thier rights.

Freedom of expression is a good thing, thats for sure, but without any form of regulation, even that can go out of hands.

So, I sit here, type those wrods, trying to finding an asnwer, but there isnt one. I feel so helpless and so sad about what is going on here. I would love to trun back the time, so this never had be happend and everything can go like normal, but it wont and I´m angry about that. I just feel that sometimes what seems so right on the first look, may be wrong later.

We all will regret this descion sooner or later, we all payed a terrible price for a clear cut ToS. Call me melodramatic, but thats how I see it.

I´ll bet that I will get a hail of insults and heat from what I just posted, but thats normal wehn somone says what he feels and thinks about controversial desciosons.

I just feel I have to post this, no matter what.

"I´m all broken up, on that mans rights." Harry Callahan

[Arshes Nei]

*Takes the needle off the broken record*

Thanks for the fallacy of bad internet math too.

[Lt.Havoc]

Knew you would make a witty remark here, as always.

[BijouxDeFoxxe]

That's cus Arshes is a witty type girl! I dunno, I think of myself as a pretty top notch artist, but i'm not goin anywhere :P And I am sure that there are plenty of "top notch artists" who, like me, didnt care about this topic to BEGIN with, and so therefor, see no point into leaving. Not to mention that furry art, by default already has a stigma attatched to it. And if you dont believe that, ask anybody. Like my teachers.

[Arshes Nei]

Yes, and Havok what of it? What is going to change now? You and I can soapbox all day on the issue for and against it. Why not just I dunno wait it out before screaming the sky is falling. It hasn't been a week yet, and quite frankly time heals all wounds.

Some of the artists that left, delete their galleries EVERY year (or month day whatever) now, I can set a timer on it. If it wasn't this it would be some other over emotional thing that gets to them. Now what? Their stuff gets reposted on a *chan style site. This is nothing new, then they complain about their art being reposted :P

So I ask you again, what is it going to solve?

[Lt.Havoc]

Get bakc to the orginal ToS, go back to the beginning, that is. And dont tell me its not possible, it is. Go back to the planning table and overthink it once again, thats what I want.

[cpctail]

That the admins where pushed by a small group of people to make this descion, that even an admin stepped down over it and that many left, is reason enough to belive that this whole thing was hirrued, only to please some loud screamers. Yeah, if you scream liud enough, you get what you want, thats how I feel about it

Actually if there was some way to read through the poll thread and reread the other threads in relation, I'd say both side did their fair share of loud screaming.

[Lt.Havoc]

Well, yeah, I think thats true. Still, its not a compromise we have here and non of these 2 side really won with the current situation. I know, that some artists left cuz´ the publisher they are working for dont want to have thier artists on a side that allowes cub pron, due to the bad image, I think thats also a good reason.

Ya know, I just dont want to have to slallow the cookie you gave me, I just dont want to sit here and do nothing wihle my fav artists leave this site. Something has to be done.

[yak]

That the admins were pushed by a small group of people to make this descion, that even an admin stepped down over it and that many left, is reason enough to belive that this whole thing was hirrued, only to please some loud screamers. Yeah, if you scream liud enough, you get what you want, thats how I feel about it.

You have no idea what box of pandora you opned, what gates of hell has be pushed open, did you guys really wanted all this, the drama, the insulsts, the leaving of good artists? Was it worth all that? I think the price was way too high we all have to pay now. I thimnk it was not worth it.

i felt a strong urge to quote this that i could not resist.

[Damaratus]

Well, yeah, I think thats true. Still, its not a compromise we have here and non of these 2 side really won with the current situation. I know, that some artists left cuz´ the publisher they are working for dont want to have thier artists on a side that allowes cub pron, due to the bad image, I think thats also a good reason.

Ya know, I just dont want to have to slallow the cookie you gave me, I just dont want to sit here and do nothing wihle my fav artists leave this site. Something has to be done.

Havoc, you have said your piece and we understand how you are feeling about this. The fact remains that the decision has been passed and we are making sure that things will be set up so that those who wish to stay and not look at certain things will be able to do so.

This is a compromise, we are not simply letting things fly around willy-nilly, we're trying to keep this controlled. If you see your favorite artists taking flight, then keep a tracking device on them. They are always going to want to post their works somewhere. Yes, it may not be as convenient, but that's the way things work sometimes. Artists come and go, things change, everything is mutable at a certain level.

If you try and keep chasing your tail after a decision has been rendered, it isn't going to get you very far. Besides, if you take a step back, this whole thing is very, very small. It won't kill you, turn things upside down, it isn't a life changing event. It is just a change being made on a website, one of a good many that exist on the internet. And perhaps if we work on being progressive in how the site is handled, those artists who left, just might return (this occurrence has been documented in the past).

[Lt.Havoc]

Well, I hope that they return some day and I hope that things go well, but thats all I can do, hoping. I just feel so danm helpless in this matter and I cant stad to just wait and see. Sometimes chages happen to often and too fast, so you cant adjust yourself too it, sometimes too many things happening at once, so you dont know what you else should do.

Its not the end of the wrold, thats sure, but the end of a dream, the dream that there is a place where all kinds of artists post thier art, do trades and all, but this bubble bursted a while ago. Dreams trun into nasty habits wehn you dont look.

" That's all I have to say about that." Forrest Gump