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Thread: FA Policy Notice - "Cub" Art

  1. #251
    Care to join me in my lab? Forum Legend Damaratus's Avatar
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    Default RE: FA Policy Notice - "Cub" Art

    Quote Originally Posted by Lt.Havoc
    Well, I hope that they return some day and I hope that things go well, but thats all I can do, hoping. I just feel so danm helpless in this matter and I cant stad to just wait and see. Sometimes chages happen to often and too fast, so you cant adjust yourself too it, sometimes too many things happening at once, so you dont know what you else should do.

    Its not the end of the wrold, thats sure, but the end of a dream, the dream that there is a place where all kinds of artists post thier art, do trades and all, but this bubble bursted a while ago. Dreams have nasty habits wehn you dont look.

    " That's all I have to say about that." Forrest Gump
    I do believe that an artist (all kinds, in fact) can still do that here. Some of them are doing the same thing somewhere else. All changes you can adjust to over time. It's a matter of being flexible when the tougher changes occur.

    Perhaps this is the end of this particular dream for you, but one can always dream again, something new, something vibrant, something far more intersting perhaps. Only time will tell.

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    Default RE: FA Policy Notice - "Cub" Art

    Waxing and waning the poetic and philosophical Damaratus? I agree though. People made their choices you just have to adapt.

    Your prose however needs the appropriate music. Just for reading effect of course

  3. #253
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    Default RE: FA Policy Notice - "Cub" Art

    Quote Originally Posted by Lt.Havoc
    Well, I hope that they return some day and I hope that things go well, but thats all I can do, hoping. I just feel so danm helpless in this matter and I cant stad to just wait and see. Sometimes chages happen to often and too fast, so you cant adjust yourself too it, sometimes too many things happening at once, so you dont know what you else should do.
    *nods*. Sorry 'bout that, and can empathise there since we're all pretty much in the same boat on that one.

    And yes, I did read through what you'd written on the previous pages. Thanks.

  4. #254
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    Default RE: FA Policy Notice - "Cub" Art

    Quote Originally Posted by Lt.Havoc
    Many say "Wehn you ban cub porn, ban the rest too", but why not trun it around and say "wehn you allow cub porn, why not allow everything lese"? So, why not allow lolicona and shota, propaganda, racism, real people having sex, or having sex in a fursuit? I see it coming "we cant do that, thats gross!" or "its illegal!", sure it is, but I could relativate it and say "its just art, no one gets hurt" or "its just staged, its not real". I would force my opinon on you, just like some did in the whole debate.
    Problem is, including mature art of human children is really borderline. It could get the site shut down. As it is, the worst thing happening is the drama and people leaving the site.

    I wonder, why is FA not limited to furry art anyway? o_O I mean, it is FUR affinity, and there are other general-art places. Off-topic. Sorry. I just wonder what made the admins come to that decision.

    There's a difference between racism and cub art.

    Racist art IS real racism in itself. You can't just say it's a fictional picture depicting racism and that nobody's getting hurt. Because what is racism? At its mildest level, it's simply the hatred of a certain race of people. Take it a step further, it's sharing that sentiment with another person, and that's what the art would fall under.

    I think racist images are more comparable to images that communicate the message "I love raping children! I think its practice should be encouraged!" Or actual child pornography, where it's a photo of a real kid.

    A mature picture of a kid that does not exist, however, IS fiction. While it is, by definition, pedophilic art, it is NOT a child getting raped. It is only depicting that (and cub art, the "child" in question isn't even human). As was stated, most people who draw cub art wouldn't touch a real child. So do they condone the actual practice? Probably not.

    It is pretty hard to define though, because you really need to consider the artist's motives. I'm guessing most people on this website who draw it do it just for enjoyment, rather than actually condoning the activity of raping a child. Maybe some of them even do it to release any feelings they might have in a way that doesn't harm anyone, I don't know. That is not illegal, FA can host it, they already host things just as bad (but are still legal).

  5. #255
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    Default RE: FA Policy Notice - "Cub" Art

    But that's the thing, I think the only ones who actually debated and at least tried to handle this with tackt were the admins. I can't count how many angry journals I read that just depriciated into all out your supporting pedophillia, your a sick pervert. What I saw was an unwillingness to even listen and understand. I never saw anyone say look theres nothing wrong with pedophillia, it never happend and yet so many had that idea. No one was defending the concept they where however defending the freedom to create the art and to view it. To many took this to a far to personal level as an attack on themselves and their beliefs.
    I'm more than certain if these people would have stated their thoughts with respect and not gone after people in a personal manner alot of the drama could have been avoided.To all those who threatened and have leaft because of this issue, if you love something you dont abandon it when it has a problem you stay and do your best to make things right. I respect your choice to leave and your opinion but I can't help but think it was just the easy way out.

    I just hope we can work this out, and move on in the right direction.

  6. #256
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    Default RE: FA Policy Notice - "Cub" Art

    ...

    Oh well...



    I have nothing to say.

    Except goodbye to some really skilled artists... they will be missed.

  7. #257
    Motterator 2,500 Club Summercat's Avatar
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    Default RE: FA Policy Notice - "Cub" Art

    Quote Originally Posted by TonyWolf
    ...

    Oh well...



    I have nothing to say.

    Except goodbye to some really skilled artists... they will be missed.
    "I wish you would stay, but I will not follow."

    Only had to post that twice ^^

  8. #258
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    Default RE: FA Policy Notice - "Cub" Art

    Quote Originally Posted by Summercat
    Quote Originally Posted by TonyWolf
    ...

    Oh well...



    I have nothing to say.

    Except goodbye to some really skilled artists... they will be missed.
    "I wish you would stay, but I will not follow."

    Only had to post that twice ^^
    Im staying... But I am greatly disappointed.

    I have a very strong vendetta for any depicting of underage pr0n being a victim of a pedophile myself.

    However... I believe that you are entitled to think the way you want, like what you want, and say what you want, just don't push it on me.

    I dont jump on any side of conflicts as I have my own beliefs... and I dont push them on anyone else... In short: I never follow the crowd.

  9. #259
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    Default RE: FA Policy Notice - "Cub" Art

    I had a police officer tell me as long as its not an explicit photograph of an underage person, legally there is nothing wrong with that type of image at all. So basically from a legal standpoint, any cub pics that are uploaded here should be totally legal.

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    Default RE: FA Policy Notice - "Cub" Art

    Quote Originally Posted by RedMoogleXIII
    I had a police officer tell me as long as its not an explicit photograph of an underage person, legally there is nothing wrong with that type of image at all. So basically from a legal standpoint, any cub pics that are uploaded here should be totally legal.
    You trusted the cops? o_o

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    Default RE: FA Policy Notice - "Cub" Art

    Quote Originally Posted by Flame10885
    Quote Originally Posted by RedMoogleXIII
    I had a police officer tell me as long as its not an explicit photograph of an underage person, legally there is nothing wrong with that type of image at all. So basically from a legal standpoint, any cub pics that are uploaded here should be totally legal.
    You trusted the cops? o_o
    Why not, if he didn't commit any crime there is no reason to be afraid.

    See the problem is something I've noticed with people in general. If there is real child porn, you encounter it, calling the cops and letting them know immediately is a GOOD thing. Letting it sit or thinking you can wipe it off your hard drive because it scares you into getting into trouble makes it worse.

    Asking a question about something you are insure about, is not something to be afraid of.

  12. #262
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    Default RE: FA Policy Notice - "Cub" Art

    Quote Originally Posted by Arshes Nei
    I dunno, despite me meeting people from various art archives, I've always had a way to contact them OUTSIDE of the archive. If your friendship was just based on comments and notes, and you didn't get their IM and have a conversation outside of this I kinda wonder how close of a friend you were.
    Now, is it just ME or does it seem that THESE are the types of people who are most concerned with preserving their "reputation", not realizing that their reputation as Furries already has them on the short end of a slippery stick anyway?

  13. #263
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    Default RE: FA Policy Notice - "Cub" Art

    Quote Originally Posted by Summercat
    Quote Originally Posted by tigermist
    Ok now I know Ill more than likely get flammed for this but, I agree with the decission while still having qualms. The only thing I really feel strongly about it the reaction to it, what started out as calm, cool headed disscusion turned rapidly into all out name calling. Why not try to come up with a fitting comprimise right off the back instead of going after each other, because if it isnt obvious there is never just black and white there is a thousand shades of gray. My opinion doesnt matter, but what I do think needs to be talked about is what the issue is really about, how is it the we jump to moral attacks and slander to try and force our opinions and then say we have the moral high ground?
    There are never absolutes outside of philosophy. But people like to make it so - their way, or no way.
    *sigh* Not enough have tried my way. It involves popcorn, confettie, and three gallons of whipped creme.
    Well, personally, as in after my own field of study. Absolutes exist in the Natural World, NOT in the human mind or culture. I'm talking about gravity, chemistry, physics, the things that govern the physical world around us. That includes animal instinct, some of which is also included in human behaviour. THese things are unchanging, we may not UNDERSTAND them yet but that doesn't matter. The Earth has never been flat nor at the center of our solar system, no matter how badly we wanted to believe so at some point.

    Humans capacity for what we call "higher thought" is where the flexibility comes in because we have the ability to interpret and apply information and be creative with it, animals do not.

    Seriously man, gimme that popcorn already!

    And as far as the Black & White vs. grey thing... welll... and again this is my opinion as it helps me sort things out more realistically. the more narrow you focus on to the aspect of a particular subject, the more you see it's either black or white given the appropriate context. But as you pull out, and see things from the BROADER perspective, all those dots of black and white turn into shades of grey. WHat do we call the darkest shades of grey? Black. What do we call the lightest shades? white (or some derivitive therof that's more or less indestinguishable).
    My point would be, balance is necessary yes, but by taking things apart and breaking them down, you're better able to understand them. Throwing up a moral wall with an "all or nothing" or "nothing is ever this or that" kind of mentality is only self defeating.

    Again that's my own opinion for rational thought and now that I think of it, it may not be appropriate to stay here, but I'm not sure, I'm a little grey in that area.

  14. #264
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    Default RE: FA Policy Notice - "Cub" Art

    Quote Originally Posted by Master_Oki_Akai
    Quote Originally Posted by Arshes Nei
    I dunno, despite me meeting people from various art archives, I've always had a way to contact them OUTSIDE of the archive. If your friendship was just based on comments and notes, and you didn't get their IM and have a conversation outside of this I kinda wonder how close of a friend you were.
    Now, is it just ME or does it seem that THESE are the types of people who are most concerned with preserving their "reputation", not realizing that their reputation as Furries already has them on the short end of a slippery stick anyway?
    Actually the huff and leave is also what gets them on sites that post the same stuff they don't stand for like on image boards and stuff.

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    Default RE: FA Policy Notice - "Cub" Art

    Quote Originally Posted by Arshes Nei
    Quote Originally Posted by Flame10885
    Quote Originally Posted by RedMoogleXIII
    I had a police officer tell me as long as its not an explicit photograph of an underage person, legally there is nothing wrong with that type of image at all. So basically from a legal standpoint, any cub pics that are uploaded here should be totally legal.
    You trusted the cops? o_o
    Why not, if he didn't commit any crime there is no reason to be afraid.

    See the problem is something I've noticed with people in general. If there is real child porn, you encounter it, calling the cops and letting them know immediately is a GOOD thing. Letting it sit or thinking you can wipe it off your hard drive because it scares you into getting into trouble makes it worse.

    Asking a question about something you are insure about, is not something to be afraid of.

    It was meant to be taken as a joke... Sorry, guess I didn't make that clear enough.

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    Default RE: FA Policy Notice - "Cub" Art

    Quote Originally Posted by Flame10885


    It was meant to be taken as a joke... Sorry, guess I didn't make that clear enough.
    Sadly, there are people who honestly believe that.

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    Default RE: FA Policy Notice - "Cub" Art

    Quote Originally Posted by Summercat
    Quote Originally Posted by Flame10885


    It was meant to be taken as a joke... Sorry, guess I didn't make that clear enough.
    Sadly, there are people who honestly believe that.
    That is true. Know it first hand.

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    Default RE: FA Policy Notice - "Cub" Art

    Quote Originally Posted by Summercat
    Quote Originally Posted by Flame10885


    It was meant to be taken as a joke... Sorry, guess I didn't make that clear enough.
    Sadly, there are people who honestly believe that.
    What? Believe that it's not safe to trust the cops?

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    Default RE: FA Policy Notice - "Cub" Art

    Quote Originally Posted by Flame10885
    Quote Originally Posted by Summercat
    Quote Originally Posted by Flame10885


    It was meant to be taken as a joke... Sorry, guess I didn't make that clear enough.
    Sadly, there are people who honestly believe that.
    What? Believe that it's not safe to trust the cops?
    *Creates more boxwang quote*

    Yes, they believe anything they do that the cops will get them. LOL.

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    Default RE: FA Policy Notice - "Cub" Art

    I trust some cops. Some of my own family are cops and I trust them, I have met cops and I find that most of them are quite nice, and respectfull people. But like every thing else theres always a few bad apples and a few fanatics. I've seen cops harass people for the sheer fact that they didnt like the way they looked. Long hair a darker style of clothing, can get you a closer inspection. Its just like people there some good, some great, some bad, and some horrible. Cops are people to and thus not perfect.

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    Default RE: FA Policy Notice - "Cub" Art

    I don't agree with the decision; it seems to me as if it were pushed by an underwhelming minority who--through the power of making sure they were heard--got others with the hard-fixed stands of "Censorship is evil" to follow them, meanwhile most of those who don't approve shook their heads and hoped that common sense would prevail, as we're quite tired of getting smacked with the "you're wrong!!!!1!!" hammer each time we try to express our own opinion.

    But, before Arshes Nei can make a snide comment guised as wit, I'll say this: I don't have another gallery of decent platform built at the moment. The publicity I've garnered from this site has served my own ends well. While I am at a toss-up over staying--not because of the decision that was made, but because of the great hubbub it had to turn into instead of being normally dealt with--my gallery will remain, and I will probably continue to add pieces to it as I have in the past, at least for now.

    Should this trend of the screaming Me-Me's and the Gimmie Gimmies continue, however, and the administration buckle under the volume of their cries, that will be the real telling point of the validity of decisions made on this site. Some people have left, and to them I wish them well, many are friends of mine. But, perhaps against better judgement I am still here for the time being, and I hope to see a more positive trend occurring on this site. Not only positive in features, but in the attitudes of the members on the site itself. Please, step back, take a deep breath and try to be civil. If someone else makes a point, please try to weigh their ideas for a moment, then respond. These knee-jerk arguments and bickering really accomplish nothing.

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    Default RE: FA Policy Notice - "Cub" Art

    Mitch: no, actually that's the thing. I agree with keeping the ban up. However, the sides got so polarized it didn't matter anymore. To scream moral outrage on a site that allows some other rather disgusting stuff to slide is silly. If you feel uncomfortable and want to leave that's fine. Personal choice is a good thing.

    The people that made it some political thing like "I'm gonna threaten you with lists of people leaving" instead of letting people mull things over and make the choice for themselves. It just got sad. People tried to rationalize other atrocious acts saying they weren't as bad. That was just wrong and insensitive too.

    The side screaming OMG CENSORSHIP F'U WHINERS was ridiculous as well. Saying everyone who left was an attention whore isn't right. Saying everyone is a baby because they didn't like the decision is wrong too.

    I actually got fed up with both sides, but sadly the people making sense were the people who still don't confuse their fantasy with reality. The only reason I seem snide now is that I'm jaded, I've seen this before in various fandoms. This actually isn't anything new. I dunno if you really read what I've been saying or you just see my presence in all these threads and just feel threatened by words. But I haven't really said things like "Don't let the door hit you on your way out" or similar stuff. People leaving is nothing new to me. Policy changes made users on other sites scream and threaten to leave too. Heck even I've fallen folly to it. But that's internet life for you.

    Also people start up the SAME DAMN RHETORIC each time they joined a thread. They start new threads about how bad the decision is, borrowing each other's cliches. As if a new thread about it when you see other topics talking about it, somehow made it more important. At least you haven't. You disagree with the decision and at the same time properly assessed what happened

  23. #273
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    Default RE: FA Policy Notice - "Cub" Art

    The worst I say to artists is "Sorry to see you leave; I shall not follow."

    Beyond that, I think Arshes Nei has (her? his? Arshes, which is it?) the best put arguement.

    Beyond that, Mitch said that a vocal minority were the ones who were listened to. That may be true, because as far as I could tell, the vast majority didn't really care. Oh, they had an opinion of it, yup. But it wasn't an issue they would have really cared about. Presented with a a simple Yes/No choice, they went with whatever they went with. But if the question was 'Do you think mature cubart is an issue?'...

    Well, I'd like to think that the answer would be no. *shrug*

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    Default RE: FA Policy Notice - "Cub" Art

    Quote Originally Posted by Summercat
    Beyond that, I think Arshes Nei has (her? his? Arshes, which is it?) the best put arguement.
    I'm female. Take it for what you will. Most people who didn't know my gender assumed I was a guy "because you argue like one".

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    Default RE: FA Policy Notice - "Cub" Art

    Quote Originally Posted by neowolf
    Why is it no one seems to realize that taking either stance to the extreme is stepping up on a moral high horse. Whether you're against the decision or even for it. The admins made a decision on a close call. With how the vote went arguably they could've gone either way and been respecting the opinions of the site to the best of their ability. Either way being a cry baby about not getting your way or an ass to those that just don't like the decision is just mindless trolling. If people don't like the decision it's certainly their right to leave. (Freedom of expression and all entails choosing where you want to after all.) Not everyone that's doing it's making a hissy fit of it. (And in that vein, if you're not the person leaving don't bring them into it unless they've at least asked you to whine for them.)
    Quote Originally Posted by Arshes Nei
    Quote Originally Posted by Summercat
    Beyond that, I think Arshes Nei has (her? his? Arshes, which is it?) the best put arguement.
    I'm female. Take it for what you will. Most people who didn't know my gender assumed I was a guy "because you argue like one".

    aaand, because you have not gone for the boob atack combo yet? XD

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