The New Policy on Cub

[dragon695]

True, but Inkbunny uses AlertPay, and are at risk for the same reasons we got dropped.

'neer, you should check out some of the shit that people are saying about AlertPay. It seems that they have been stealing a lot of people's money for no good reason. Apparently a genuine legal threat from an attorney can get them to spit up the cash, though. The more you read, the more dubious it seems that FA was targeted for cub porn, that merely a convienent excuse.

OTOH, there is a way around it. Set up a 401.3c non-profit ubrella that would exclusively be used to promote artistic expression by the underserved furry community. Then accept donations through it, which then could be used for showcasing furry artwork. Such means could include "funding" conventions and other forms of digital media. That way, your donations are given a plausible seperation from porn and other undesirable stuff. Just a thought.

[Aquin]

Honestly i saw this coming since it was first ranted on way back, and we had that huge poll which was so close.

Cub art really is a liability, even if its not technically illegal, it is still morally/majority not accepted.

I suppose it was a matter of time, but perhaps it will help FA in the long run. Least to say, been anticipating this for sometime.

[CannonFodder]

Hey I have a crazy idea, since this thread is about money issues, make it so that anyone who invokes godwin's law get a vacation?

[TwoTails]

OK, time to poke holes in this.
Money. Really. That's so overused even if it is the main reason.
Alert pay dropped FA.. then why is that InkBunnies main payment system because it allows them such porn?

I can agree that "art" of blatant abuse like say a huge buff character raping a tiny one is usually highly distasteful, but so is any rape or overly violent subject.
So next is any fur porn at all then? That is the only taboo left, since anyone can claim that's bestiality.

I just don't appreciate the seemingly insincere reasons for this.

.. Déjà vu. I'm pretty sure we all said this before.

[Dragoneer]

So, does this mean that you guys are taking the DeviantArt approach, and will delete any character that is cannonly but not depicted under 18, like, oh, I don't know.... Sonic characters or Tiny Toon Adventures, Krystal from StarFox, or hundreds of other examples?

If they're aged up, sure... but characters like Tails are listed as being 8. So... it's hard to get around that short of drawing him as a much older version of himself.

[Ozriel]

Pre-thanksgiving Baw day.

But to the people who think it is "all cub", it's just the porn. That's it.
Don't cry censorship because it is not.
Don't cry "Freedumb of speech", because it is not.
It's a case of a site not being able to stay afloat due to a company that has a problem with it.

Repeated: It is just the rated-X stuff, not the PG.

[Istanbul]

I feel great sympathy for Dragoneer. This was very much a situation of "rock and a hard place", where any decision he made would have negative repercussions.

Let's not celebrate too loudly, nor complain too loudly either. I'm sure that this decision was not made lightly, and that he is fully cognizant of the implications on all fronts. Let's just nod our heads, accept that this policy needed to be changed for the site to continue to exist, and move on.

I sincerely hope that all money can be recovered, and that any drama from this is brief and relatively painless.

[ali]

i'm just confused as to why they only don't support cub but they accept vore, shitting, pissing, beastiality... rape... the list goes on.

if you guys were denied many times before, shouldn't you have taken that into consideration? if you ban one nasty fetish, it'd only help you to get rid of others that no site would support... eh

i know fa is all about trying to keep everyone happy with their fetishes, but when it comes to the site's survival.. oh well, at least cub porns gone :V

[gatorguts]

I like how people are trying to get a loophole.

Stop drawing children having sex.
It's not that hard.

You wont die without your dosage of child pen0r.

[semerl]

Corporations aren't controlling freedom of speech. They're controlling money. If we had all the money in the world we could do whatever we wanted. But nothing's free, and thus is the quandry. Corporations go "You want what we have? Play by our rules. If not, find somebody else."

Is FurAffinity a corporation?

[Witchiebunny]

Dragoneer, I can see some confusing stuff coming from this thread. Specifically the use of "cub art" instead of "cub PORN". AFAIK, you're only removing the pornographic art of cubs, why not state it as "cub PORN"?

It is under the "Minors in Mature Situations" heading, I think that covers it.

[Smelge]

Did you get into business with alertpay well knowing they wouldn't agree with cub porn, or was it just thrown at you? What did they cite? It just sounds really fishy, unless you just fucked up and didn't pay attention to what you were getting into.

It'll be in their terms of service, or whatever. They retain the right to terminate an account at will. Termination means the owner can no longer access the money stored, so whoops, looks like it's ours by default. They all do that.

i agree that something seems fishy about this. seems like FA was looking for a convenient scapegoat in order to ban cub porn. not that i'm complaining

So are you suggesting that FA deliberately got itself kicked off of AlertPay in a contrived and round-about way of procuring a scapegoat for the banning of something?

what the fuck

[Dragoneer]

Is FurAffinity a corporation?

Yes, an LLC.

[Pliio8]

Is FurAffinity a corporation?

Technically, Yes, it is.

[Gavrill]

Haha, some people are already labeling cub porn as "midget porn". XD

[pantheraleo]

I know, but the point I wanted to get across was that the fandom should not try to give people yet another reason to dislike and ostracize us. We complain all the time about 'fursecution', well why not endeavour to clean up or alter certaint hings a bit and try to present a more respectable facade to the public?

I wasn't aware this was a popularity contest?

[Redo]

I didn't really care much for the cub. But I kinda feel sorry for Wolfblade mostly.

[redfoxnudetoons]

If they're aged up, sure... but characters like Tails are listed as being 8. So... it's hard to get around that short of drawing him as a much older version of himself.

At least there's that.

But could you be more specific in your definition of "aged up" for people who draw fanart to make things perfectly clear so that mods/support admins don't go deleting things and handing out bans over allowable content?

[Dragoneer]

i agree that something seems fishy about this. seems like FA was looking for a convenient scapegoat in order to ban cub porn. not that i'm complaining

Yes, because my one goal in life was to have FA's funding sources closed down and put the site in any sort of financial risk. =|

[NIttrusShark]

Effectively, if you control the money, you control freedom of speech. Because you are right, the quandry is that you cannot provide a forum for people to express their views without having money. And the corporations control the money, so you have to restrict freedom in order to get the money.

It has more of a legal protective standpoint, alert pay doesn't wish to be associated with adult content which could get them in trouble in some states and countries, generally though I would typically agree with what you are saying. But the way I see it and the law is quickly changing to see it is that the content in question is pedophilia in nature, thus why they wish to protect them selves and play it safe.

As for AlertPay keeping any funds, it's in their terms of service and is legal as you agreed to forfit it in the event you violate the agreement, it's called a contract and is legally binding, it is sad FA lost in money if such was the case I agree.

[Chronidu]

Since people don't seem to understand it, you do NOT have to SAY the character is a minor, it just has to look like one and the mods will decide from there. It's not like the admin are going to leave a loop hole THAT big, give them some credit 8|

[Chronidu]

Yes, because my one goal in life was to have FA's funding sources closed down and put the site in any sort of financial risk. =|

You conniving bastard >8[ they're on to you, there is no escape now.

[DevHalena]

I am pretty glad that the porn itself is banned, but I'm now worried about some of the artists I watch. Admittedly yes, there are a few on my watch list that I really like who upload cub porn from time to time. I'd really hate to see them go when I enjoy their clean stuff...

But aside from that, I am in full support of this. And hey, to those who draw cub porn, maybe opening your own website with plenty of content warnings could work out if you don't want to showcase on FA anymore! There will always be hosting options elsewhere!

[semerl]

SoFurry, Inkbunny and a few other sites allow it, but they also accept AlertPay. I don't want to speak for them, but I will say that AlertPay as basically locked away a /very/ sizable amount of funding from us and told us to go away, and that they will not consider an appeal. At all. AlertPay is a Canadian company, and Canada has much stricter rules on things that would even go hand-in-hand with cub-anything. So they're not going to fuck around, and... yeah.

I say we help people move out of that fascist country.

[Trpdwarf]

i'm just confused as to why they only don't support cub but they accept vore, shitting, pissing, beastiality... rape... the list goes on.

if you guys were denied many times before, shouldn't you have taken that into consideration? if you ban one nasty fetish, it'd only help you to get rid of others that no site would support... eh

i know fa is all about trying to keep everyone happy with their fetishes, but when it comes to the site's survival.. oh well, at least cubs gone :V

If you read the entire "Letter" which is the post as the very beginning of this thread, your question would be answered. This is not about "Banning sick" fetish's. This is about keeping the site alive by getting rid of something that is a "Now" threat. As in if we don't get rid of it "Now" we're going to be unable to keep this site up and running.

For "They" the other sides they have legal things to worry about themselves. EDIT: Working with a site that has piss porn has less possible legal issues than working with a site with minors depicted in sexual situations.