"My art's furry but I'm not"

[Judas]

So, clearly I draw art that is considered "furry" but I don't necessarily consider myself one (unless the term simply refers to someone drawing anthropomorphic themed art). Sort of like I could be a "Trekkie" in terms of watching every Star Trek episode without gluing on Vulcan ears, going to cons, and mastering Klingon.

Point in case, an artist can be a fan of anthro art without involvement/interest in fur suiting, belief in an animal soul, wanting to be an animal, ect. and everyones' favourite hot topic, bestiality.

I'll leave this open ended. Simply discuss or post your own experiences.

[Leahtaur]

Couldn't have said it better myself. I draw it and I may even draw myself as a bunny, but I sure don't want to be one myself. Or think I am one. Or think I was meant to be one.

[Kiniel]

Even though I was the one who created the "rant" thread to try and establish a hard-and-fast definition, I think I might go ahead and be mildly hypocritical.

I think sometimes we get way too hung up the details of terminology. I mean, we all have some common ground that ropes us into the fandom, so perhaps it is unwise (of myself) to bother with "who's 'furry' and who isn't, technically."

*Shrug*

[Leahtaur]

Actually I'll have to contradict myself a bit as well -- I agree with you, we are way too hung up on one little word.

Maybe our common ground is that we all like animals to varying degrees, from liking dogs and cats to being zoophiles, therians, etc. (Not lumping zoophiles in with therians of course, those are just the options that are at the other end of the scale.)

[DarkMeW]

Well you'll always have some sort of vocal (usually) minority that insists that every one that likes any art that they declare as furry art has to be a furry. It's nothing to be concerned about. What is pulled into the furry fandom tends to be just a collection of unrelated things with a common theme.

It's nice to have an group that a specific theme of artwork is usually taken well and encouraged. It doesn't mean you have to be part of that group, just that you know how to market your art towards people that might like it more.

[Xipoid]

Arguing semantics never accomplishes anything, and labeling is just stereotyping with a nicer name.


Though I will say if you feel shame being called "furry" or even associated as "furry", you might want to reconsider why you are here. People outside the fandom are going to call you a furry whether you like it or not, and telling a bunch of furries about how "not furry" you are doesn't seem like a really bright idea. I always thought that if you want to declare your non-furriness you should probably tell non-furs that.

[sunshyne]

I'll still use the word "furry" to describe myself, but I'm a lot like you - I don't wear fursuits, I would never in a million years become a real-life fur, and am perfectly comfortable as my human self. The problem with "furry" is that it instantly conjures up images of hardcore fursuit yiff at some shady convention, and that is mostly media-induced. The word can just as easily mean exactly what you are: just a person who admires and/or creates anthromorphic art of some type...

[Judas]

Arguing semantics never accomplishes anything, and labeling is just stereotyping with a nicer name.


Though I will say if you feel shame being called "furry" or even associated as "furry", you might want to reconsider why you are here. People outside the fandom are going to call you a furry whether you like it or not, and telling a bunch of furries about how "not furry" you are doesn't seem like a really bright idea. I always thought that if you want to declare your non-furriness you should probably tell non-furs that.

I have in the past outright avoided the fandom after being hassled by "furries" for being "not furry enough" Apparently to the point of not even needing common courtesy and respect... Though I understand this was from very specific people who were the minority and probably not doing a lot of good for the fandom. I actually have no issue being called furry or associated with it for the most part, I just wanted to start some rhetoric on the subject and hear other people's thoughts.

I used quotations in the post subject to try and make it appear less literal. More along the lines of irony. May not have worded my post the best though =P

[Ray Kicio]

I consider myself a furr but I don't draw and I rarely write about furrs. I have an furr representation of myself and that is what I believe makes me a furry. I tend to RP as a furr though?

Then again, I don't believe that being a furr is all that big of a thing.

[Muzz]

Its difficult really as I know a lot of people who say they're a fur, and some say they aren't. I don't know what to call myself, furry or not, either way I don't particually care to be honest. I draw anthro's, I have a weird fetish, I have a strange animal combination that 'represents' me in the furry community and I occassionally (once in a blue moon) go to London Fur meets, only to hang with close friends, have a drink and talk about non-relaited fur things. The rest of the meet attendeeeee's are usually walking around with furry ears on, something I'd never do.

And while I AM interested in fursuits, i don't think I'd ever fork out a fuckton of money to get one made, because I can't think of any situations that I'd wear it in, other than a con or something, which I'd probably never go to.

Eh.

[Unbrokenkarma]

Dare I say it, it seems to be getting that a furry would wanna hide the fact on a furry forum Seems to be alot of furry hate going around atm, well, a rise lately anyway.

*Watch's from the sidelines as this gets ugly*

[Leahtaur]

And while I AM interested in fursuits, i don't think I'd ever fork out a fuckton of money to get one made, because I can't think of any situations that I'd wear it in, other than a con or something, which I'd probably never go to.

I've always wondered where people actually WEAR the damn things. Even if you go to half a dozen cons in a year, that's an awful lot of money ($1000+ for a nice suit) to wear for a short amount of time. And even the well-built ones need maintenance. Not ragging on those who choose to purchase fursuits (I think I might purchase a bunny tail and ears if I find someone who makes them), but that money could buy a lot of commissions, prints, or even *gasp* practical RL things.

But then again, I'm poor. XD

[TheSkunkCat]

I define 'furry' as;

1. People self-identifying as furries.
2. Material made specifically for an audience of those people.

Anything else is not furry.

Cartoons featuring characters furries like are certainly mainstream and not furry. They where made for as large an audience as possible, and not aimed at the furries.

And people not identifying as furry, simply aren't furries.

'Furry' is not like a sexual orientation or a race. Its a subculture. So no matter how much you may like alot of things considered furries, you may still not like the subculture and thus not identify with it. Similar as to how one can be homosexual, but feel no real affinity with any particular gay subcultures and thus not identify as a member of those.

I say my definition is very solid and logical.

[Be4tl3boi]

I cannot believe this. Everyone seems to have completely forgotten the ORIGINAL definition of the word "Furry".
Anyone who likes or creates anthro animal artwork is called a furry, whether it be comics, internet or TV shows, people that enjoy this form of art are called furries and that term has broadened so much now that people are saying they're NOT furry when they clearly are.
It's not a label, it's just a name to sum up a large group of people, rather than saying "people who like anthromorphic animal artwork". It's the same as any other name out there such as "florist" or "Carpenter".

The creators of Disney's Robin Hood, clearly furries (unless they were placed there and asked to draw anthros even though they really hated it and didn't care.)
This doesn't mean they liked fursuits and whatnot, but look at the thought, effort and creativity that went into those characters!!!

[TheSkunkCat]

Original definition by whom? Mark Merlino?

Disney's movies where made for a mainstream audience. Particularly aimed at families with young children, but meant for everyone. They had no furry purpose. And Robin Hood in fact predates the entire furry fandom entirely.

Furry is a fandom. Furries are members of that fandom. But not the only ones on the planet who might like the concept of an anthro. Some like that, but choose not to be part of the fandom.

And things not created for that fandom as audience are not furry. They are for whatever they where created for. (Mainstream in case of Disney movies.)

[caguaswolf]

i could draw but i dunno im too lazy >.<

but in any case its like you americans say it

" i cant draw for shit "

[themocaw]

Hang the "Original Definition," Disney's animators may have done Robin Hood, but they sure as hell didn't go around using words like "yiff" and "spooge" and they sure as hell didn't think of themselves as "furry," more like, "yep, just another day at the office working on this movie, wow it was a clever idea to make Robin Hood a fox, kudos to the character designer for that."

Annoys me just as much as people who go "ANCIENT EGYPTIANS WERE FURRIES" instead of realizing that the point of having animal heads on their Gods was to demonstrate just how inhuman they were, instead of being fap material for overweight priests.

EDIT: one more thing: if liking furry artwork and such makes one a fur, then my friend Jonathan, who watched and liked Cowboy Bebop but hates all other anime, is an otaku. Try telling him that :P

[Jelly]

I just assumed that people that saw things like Robin Hood and felt some sort of unusual affinity (apparently from enjoying it more, finding it more aesthetically pleasing to finding some quasi-spiritual link) with that over an equally impressive human cartoon were "furry fans. ("furry" in this case meaning "anthropomorphics")" Hence, "furry fandom (and furries to shorten, and the fact that many take on anthropomorphic personas)?"

Original definiton, I thought?

Edit: Response: The difference being Cowboy Bebop is one piece of anime (a style/culture of animation), but if he just generally liked all anime, and possibly favored it over other styles of animation by virtue of it being anime, with a number of favorites and a little knowledge on the side - he might just be...dundundun...an otaku?

I see what'chr sayin' though. Just sayin' s'all.

/a little more off-topic
Uh, so, why is it that a number of people were morbidly offended by the Sex2K episode (before I knew what furries were)? If it's a general consensus amongst furries that "furry" denotes fetishistic fans?

[I've been awake for 30-something hours. Just a little background into why I may be incomprehensible.]

[TheSkunkCat]

Actually otaku is japanese for a fan who is obsessive. (With strong implications of social ineptitude, which in Japan is an arch-sin!)

You could love anime, but still not be obsessive about it. And then you wouldn't be defined as an otaku.

Of course American anime fans just translate it as 'anime fan' so I guess its sort of a 'nom de gueux'.

(Which is from my own countries history. When the Netherlands where occupied by Spain, the resistance asked for aid from France, but they French send them away, callim them beggars (gueux). They adopted the name as the name for the resistance. (Geuzen) So basically the resistance was called 'the beggars')


Of course, being an anime fan doesn't mean you're part of the associated anime fandom, just as how liking anthro art doesn't make you part of the furry fandom. I mean if you actively avoid them as some do, then how can you be included in it?

[Sugandya]

To the OP: I agree with your point simply for the fact I fall under it in some ways, too. I enjoy making and looking at anthro art, but I probably won't be visiting a furry convention anytime soon.

[Jelly]

There seems to be some mistake that the fandom is really organized. I mean, I have friends who absolutely loathe FA and avoid it like the plague. Likewise, I have furry friends who don't acknowledge the art of fellow furry fans.

Things like FA are the closest thing to a fandom organization. Even then, people here tend to have little cliques that have completely different viewpoints than others. I've seen a number of furry fans on here who like drawing furry art, but don't acknowledge it as being part of the fandom (or themselves for that matter). It seems that there is a clear seperation of the two. I like human art (to varying degrees - it is easier to have frowny-face points on a lopsided human head than a lopsided non-existent-in-reality head), but admittedly enjoy anthropomorphic art a bit more (hardly obsessive) and i has fursona kekeke. I don't really understand if furries have to be engrossed in fandom-worship to really be furries. I don't know. I guess I'm trying to see what I look like in the eyes of others. I mean, I consider the way I am to be a furry...just because that's how it was defined to me. It's part of my identity, and I have a number of friends on varying levels of that identity who share this view.
[Ugh, someone tell me if I'm making sense.]

Also, thanks for the Otaku etymology. The only things I know about Otaku is "baka, baka" and something about "sodezka (does that mean "I'm hungry?")."

[themocaw]

I'm aware that Otaku means "obsessive fan," and that in America it's usually used to refer to anime fans who do stuff like use wapanese in everyday conversation and wear naruto headbands as hats (Narutards are another story). Which was my point: Jon enjoys watching some anime. Show him Cowboy Bebop or Berserk, and he'll watch it. But he won't go to conventions, wont' dress up, and speaks good ol' American English, and it would be unfair to lump him in with a desu-spouting fantard like myself. That's about the same as claiming people who liked Robin Hood or Tailspin but have no idea what the word "yiff" or "scritch" means and have no intention of wearing or getting near a fursuit ever should be lumped in with the rest of us freaks. Which people seem to get.

For better or for worse, the actions of furries (not all furries, just enough of them) have associated the term with the kind of behavior I've described, which is why so many sane people try to dissociate themselves from the term.

[TheSkunkCat]

Also some people don't like labels and don't see an interest as a defining trait of their personality. Its not who they are, its just a small part of the whole. And some people aren't overtly social, in that gatherings of people tax their reserves and patience easily over prolonged exposure, so they don't want to go to crowded conventions and such things.

Such people can still like anthro art. But they wouldn't consider themselves furries. And if they don't, then who is anyone to tell them that they are wrong? And that they are, what they say they are not? They chose not to take the label or associate much with the fandom.

I think its ridiculous to label people as 'furries' if they don't think of themselves as such. And its also silly to label something as 'furry' if it wasn't made for, or aimed at, furries at all in anyway. And furries are such a teeny-weeny slice of the market that nothing a big company makes'll be aimed at them. No money in it compared to broader audiences. A few thousand people is chickenfeed in the corporate world. Their after the millions.

So I maintain that furry is either someone who says they are one. Or material made for people who say they are furries as a primary audience.

Anything else is not. Sometimes someone hopping around in a fursuit is just the mascot for a sportsteam y'know.

[Bloodangel]

To OP: Fair enough. Thats cool.

And thus the topic died, only to resurrect next week, and the week after, and the next, until the stars them selves died, and all that remained was a small laptop, drifting on the endless void of space, with the thread of "What IS a furry" on its screen, forever.......

[Cygnus421]

the term "Furry" referrs to the people who draw the art as well, so it's not a matter of weather or not you consider yourself "Furry" it has to do with how furry you are.