Age of consent

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Aleksion, Mar 18, 2017.

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Age of consent

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  1. quoting_mungo

    quoting_mungo Administrator Staff Member

    By "starts at 10-11", what they mean is that age is where the physical processes take their very beginning - it's not a useful measure for laypeople to use. A 10-11-year-old will typically not have developed breasts or started menstruating (unless they are VERY early bloomers, likely due to some underlying condition), and that very beginning of puberty will not have immediate overnight mental effects. 14-15 sounds like an absolutely reasonable, plausible age for a girl to start thinking about sex. Prior to that, they may have started to take an interest in the opposite (or same) sex, but that's more likely to be in swooning and kissing than in anything more intimate.

    Even once the body hits fertile age (menstruation starts, for girls), it's not necessarily a good idea to immediately jump into bed with someone. If you look at practically all reputable breeders of pet animals and livestock, they will not immediately breed their animals the moment they hit fertile age (ferrets are an exception because their biology is messed up), but rather wait until they are closer to being done growing, in order to avoid adverse effects on the mother. While that's focused on reproduction, while you're presumably mostly advocating for recreational sex, we do need to acknowledge that even using condoms or other forms of birth control, there's practically always a small outside chance of birth control failing.

    And the younger and closer to menarche a girl is, the less likely she is to notice the irregularity in her periods that's usually the first telltale sign one's caught pregnant. Can you see where I'm going with this?
     
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  2. AustinB

    AustinB Active Member

    Honestly, 18 should be the age of consent. That's when you technically become an adult and that's when you start taking responsibility for yourself. The bare minimum (in my opinion) would be 16, but I'm saying that loosely. Anything lower than 16, I'm sorry, but you're fucked in the head and you should get checked out.
     
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  3. Aleksion

    Aleksion They killed me

    Yes, ban all vaginal sex before 18! But unwanted pregnancy can't be the sole reason for statutory rape laws today...

    It surprises me how prevalent infantilization is.
     
  4. Fallowfox

    Fallowfox T-Tauri

    It's a lost cause, Mungo.

    Aleksion has made it clear that he doesn't think grown adults who have sex with 12 year old children should be prosecuted.

    It's straight up advocacy of paedophilia; you can't expect the sort of people who defend paedophilia to be persuaded by reason.
     
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  5. MadKiyo

    MadKiyo Villainous Fly

    I'm by no means an expert, but having to watch over and take care of younger cousins throughout my teens and observing how easily influenced or convinced of things based on who they look up to, and how much they've grown out of that mindset now has given me perspective. There's a lot of blind innocence that I can only forgive them for.

    Children are not capable of thoughtfully consenting.
     
  6. quoting_mungo

    quoting_mungo Administrator Staff Member

    Well, technically hebephilia, and I think that's a distinction worth making. "Pedophilia" far too commonly gets used in a uselessly broad manner that doesn't actually reflect the definition of the word.

    Either way, you worry about what battles you pick, and let me worry about mine.
     
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  7. Aleksion

    Aleksion They killed me

    It's straight up advocacy of homosexuality; you can't expect the sort of people who defend homosexuality to be persuaded by reason. Sounds familiar, doesn't it? Start giving solid arguments instead of it's wrong because it's wrong.

    I agree young people are easier convinced than adults, but for some reason children are not constantly getting scammed by them. I don't think adults are all evil.
     
  8. Sergei Sóhomo

    Sergei Sóhomo Well-Known Member

    Oooooooh damn
     
  9. Lcs

    Lcs Woof

    I found an interesting graphic on the age of consent for each country in case anyone is interested:

    [​IMG]

    It seems like Yemen and Tunisia have the lowest and highest ages.
     
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  10. Fallowfox

    Fallowfox T-Tauri

    I don't think it is worth splitting hairs over whether the rape victim has begun puberty yet or not, because in either case the relationship is indefensible for the same reason; because it is predatory.
    If we do have to be specific about definitions, I think that hebephilia is a type of paedophilia, as 'paedo' simply means 'children', and 12 year olds are children, whether or not they have begun puberty.

    Anyway, messages which are aimed at convincing users that it is okay for children to have sex with their teachers aren't really acceptable content for a forum which has users as young as 13, because it could mean they don't report improper behaviour. ._.
     
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  11. Sergei Sóhomo

    Sergei Sóhomo Well-Known Member

    Seems about right for the middle east
    South America I do not approve of
    Canada I never knew. I honestly always thought it was 18 but apparently it is 16. Prior to that it was 14.

    That ain't right but then again we've been on a downwards spiral for a while

    She does technically have a point.

    Paedophilia is generally 12 or under, but hebephilia is pubescent children aged 11 - 14. If I'm not mistaken there's another term which breaks up another age group of 1 - 6 (?) but that is more correctly paedophilia as well
     
    Last edited: Mar 21, 2017
  12. Fallowfox

    Fallowfox T-Tauri

    Aleksion argued that the age of consent should be 12, so your definitions imply that it is both paedophilia and hebephilia advocacy anyway.
    I feel that splitting hairs over this is a semantic distraction anyway. It's not like changing the word for Aleksion's beliefs is going to make them any more or less disgusting.

    I'm going to reply to this to succinctly explain why sexual relationships between children and adults are wrong for the benefit of any 13 or 14 year olds reading this post, because I know there are users this age on the website.

    As children who are soon going to become young adults, you will be presented with new feelings that you aren't sure how to respond to, like sexual attraction.
    You are not yet equipped with the appropriate experience and knowledge to make informed decisions about sexual relationships, which could result in an unwanted pregnancy, injury, infection, emotional distress or even death.
    Hence adults who use their positions of authority, for example as teachers, to seek sexual relationships with you are in breach of the duty of care they should have towards you.
    It doesn't matter how important an adult might seem. If they make sexual advances towards you or your friends, you need to tell a family member, another teacher, or failing that, the police or a child protection service.
     
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  13. Sogreth

    Sogreth Local Cuddle Bear and Wannabe Writer

    I don't think Alek understands that an adult/teacher can easily convince as 12 year old student to make them "think" they want it. Not saying it's right to do that, obviously. Just saying, at 12 years old, as you pointed out:
    "You are not yet equipped with the appropriate experience and knowledge to make informed decisions about sexual relationships"
    But Alek still seems to think that it's alright for a 30-40 year old to have sex with a 12 year old. When the adult can just be easily taking advantage of the young child.

    And it also just makes me believe that Alek is just a huge troll.

    Thanks for proving my point, bud.
     
  14. Aleksion

    Aleksion They killed me

    Can you explain how it works? I really want to learn it. And how it differs from adults
     
  15. Sogreth

    Sogreth Local Cuddle Bear and Wannabe Writer

    I'm not getting anymore involved with you, Alek ^.^
    I know a terrible troll when I see one. I said my bit, and now I'm headin' out.
     
  16. Lcs

    Lcs Woof

    The middle east (with the exception of Saudi Arabia, Qatar, Yemen and Oman) is actually surprisingly normal I thought. They are mainly around the 16-18 range with Iran being at 13, which is a bit low, but Spain and Japan are the same.

    Personally I think that an age of consent of 16 is quite normal and acceptable. So, I'm not too convinced that it's wrong for Canada to have it at that age. That said, I wouldn't suggest that 16 year olds have sex, but I don't think it's too controversial for it to be legal for them to do it at that age. I do think that some of the European countries and Japan which have their age set at below 16 is a bit questionable though.
     
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  17. Fallowfox

    Fallowfox T-Tauri

    So the child welfare act in Japan actually forbids any sex with somebody under 18, and most prefectures have exceptions for 'puppy-love' relationships between teenagers.
    Ages of consent in Asia - Wikipedia

    As of 2015 the Spanish age of consent is 16.
    Ages of consent in Europe - Wikipedia
     
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  18. Lcs

    Lcs Woof

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  19. Sergei Sóhomo

    Sergei Sóhomo Well-Known Member

    It's more the lower areas that people rail on for most things, though I do get your point of the upper areas as well. Granted I will admit I'm surprised to see Saudi Arabia of all places actually has that at a good place.

    Canada is slowly losing it with the people we have in places like the House of Commons and the Minister of Immigration

    No comment on Japan. I don't hear nor study about them nor know what the hell puppy love even means
    Spain seems a bit too light in their punishment

    Pretty much. Mostly just saying that Mungo did have a point about the definitions
     
    Last edited: Mar 21, 2017
  20. Arcturus Maple

    Arcturus Maple Trustworthy, Non-Creepy Sort

    In my area in the US, many people have had sex by age fourteen, but a large number have not done anything of the sort by age eighteen. Myself, age 22 and never had sex, by choice and misfortune (no one shared a mutual attraction, though there was enough one-sided attraction both ways). A lot of it comes down to whether or not you can find the right person, and how long it takes you to find them.

    I don't see what age has to do with it, as many people over the age of eighteen aren't responsible, informed on the subject, or sensible. Likewise, many people far younger are strong individuals in their own right who seek out knowledge for themselves, are motivated by their own goals and wants, and are fully cognizant and accepting of there being consequences to their actions.

    Regardless of the logical conclusion that age does not necessarily bring wisdom and an arbitrary age of consent is illogical, we do not live in an idyllic world, and age of consent laws exist because there are unscrupulous individuals out there who would take advantage of someone. Such people are scum and should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law. The need for protection from such people is more an abusive relationship issue, though, and could function equally well if the same criteria for identifying toxic, controlling relationships were used to help the victim. Such a change is unlikely to ever happen, as Americans tend to hold on to old puritanical ideals long after the framework around them has faded away. And while I think this part of the legal system needs reform, I still firmly believe the law should be followed until it is changed.
     

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