Firearm Owners In The Fandom?

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Jarren, Aug 5, 2016.

  1. Simo

    Simo Skunk

    It is kind of odd, given I don't have a very large family, and that these deaths happened on both my mother's and father's side, and with an aunt related by marriage...and that my brother is adopted. Nature and nurture, perhaps...and yet my (immediate) family looks and seems sane enough, to all outward appearances. But yeah, it does seem depression runs through my family, in more ways than seem likely.

    I also agree that the 'impulsive' nature of such states is a huge, understated part; a sure and quick means at hand has shown to be very highly correlated.

    Guns and suicide: Harvard Study:This paints a decent outline; there's lot of literature out there on this, and it's not always cut and dry, by any means: www.hsph.harvard.edu: Suicide

    Well, having fought at points to stay alive, I've avoided guns...I think if I took up something similar, it'd be archery; maybe become Robin Hood! I think that'd be more fun, I'd be a good Robin Hood.
     
    Last edited: Mar 20, 2017
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  2. Jarren

    Jarren You can't just quote yourself! -Me

    I don't know about archery, dude. I mean, first you've gotta buy the bow and the arrows. Then you get a taste for it, and you're picking up a compound bow. Then a longbow. Then Crossbows catch your attention and you eventually move on to a full-blown ballista. Then you buy a few more, get some friends together, and the next thing you know you end up laying siege to Carthage. I dunno. It seems like a real commitment to me :p
    In all seriousness, archery is really fun and arguably requires more skill to perform well at than rifle/handgun sports, and it's got a wonderful amount of history and application behind it. I've kind of regretted not pursuing it further when I was first introduced to it.
     
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  3. Rykhoteth

    Rykhoteth I AM A HUGE JIAN PLEASE BREAK MY LEGS

    Ballistas? Amateur hour. No hardware capable of anything less than a 90 kg projectile over 300 meters is worthwhile.
     
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  4. Kellan Meig'h

    Kellan Meig'h Kilted Coder

    Another dumb piece of trivia. Getting called to either a home or a hospital to take a report from a person that shot himself/herself. It always seemed to start with the statement, "I was just cleaning my weapon . . ."

    I always follow a rule that says check the chamber first. Even if I see you check the firearm, I will do so again once I have it in my possession.

    True story; I was at the local to me indoor range with my wife and oldest daughter some twenty-odd years ago. I was shooting a Redhawk converted to .475 Linebaugh, the wife and daughter were practicing with the .38 Specials using some 110g HBWC rounds and the range master was shooting his 'tuned' AMT Longslide Hardballer in the bay next to me. I finished for the night (when my shooting glove split in the palm) so he finished his magazine, ejected the magazine, waited until we were out of the range area to pull the trigger to drop the hammer. It still had a live round in it due to a number of flaws in his gunsmithing and general gun handling. He almost shot his right big toe off, scaring the sh!t out of himself and everyone that was in the range at that time.

    The piece was confiscated at the scene and examined carefully by a local master armorer. It was very easy to repeat that same malfunction, since the slide would fail to lock back about fifty percent of the time. It lulled him into a false sense of security, that it was unloaded when in fact, it still had one more round in it, just waiting for his ignorance to strike. Lessons learned? One, If you are not a trained gunsmith, do no modifications to a firearm. Period. Two, always check the chamber, do not just assume it is clear.

    An amateur gunsmith tried to lighten the trigger on a Ruger 10/22. He was Joe Clueless from Cluelessville. He decided the first magazine to use after the mods would be a 100 round drum stoked with the famous(infamous?) Yellowjacket High Velocity ammo. He pulled the trigger once, it fired 87 rounds full auto before a stovepipe jam stopped the process. He p!ssed himself. I dove for cover, just in case he swept the barrel around, looking for help. I damn near shat myself, too. The 10/22 makes a scary 'ripping' sound in full auto.

    Just sayin'
     
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  5. Crimson_Steel17

    Crimson_Steel17 The night is my solace; the day is my prime

    The exact number of owners would be difficult to ascertain, as simply looking into the legal paper trail only accounts for guns sold legally, and disregards owners with multiple firearms and criminals with guns off of the black market. The number of suicides using a firearm, regardless of ownership of said firearm, while it may seem large, only accounts for small fraction of all causes of death- approximately 0.0067% of the population annually, according to the CDC. It is worth noting that the fatality rate for injuries sustained in a collision, regardless of who was at fault and the position of the vehicle at time of impact, and regardless of number of impacts, is greater- to the tune of approximately 0.0106% of the population annually according to the CDC.
    There is actually an additional category you must include, which actually skews the data in a way not noted by the CDC or any other major authority on the raw statistics regarding fatality rates. Because such statistics are not kept, this question is impossible to answer accurately on the basis that the raw statistic for suicide rate by method is inaccurate itself.
    Statistically, while this idea shows a glimmer of truth, no method of suicide is more or less successful than another- and the simple reason is that statistics are not kept for unsuccessful attempts by method. Even if there were, it would have to be a sub-statistic of nonfatal injuries by method- and neither the CDC nor any other major authority on the raw statistics of injuries and fatalities by method tracks this. Additionally, the statistics on hand can only account for method by choice, and this only tells how often a method is preferred over others regardless of success. Overall, another argument with great potential wasted by facts.

    Attempt failed, 1 remaining.
    The data you requested debunked the vague position you attempted to take. Also, you attempted to take a vague position and force me to back into a corner- all while insisting that because I'm "so educated" in subject matter that I was some kind of scum or false prophet.
     
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  6. Shane McNair

    Shane McNair Adrenaline addicted Arwing pilot

    *Sigh* anytime someone posts a thread about firearms, inevitably it seems that it's always going to degrade into a political/crime statistics thread. See, this is why we can't have nice things, like a nice, pleasant and enjoyable thread.

    How in the hell does someone shoot themselves while cleaning a firearm? I've never understood that. When I'm cleaning a firearm, I've always got a cleaning rod/cable stuffed down the bore with a patch or brush on the end of it. No way is a round going to get chambered with that in the way, even if I was being negligent, which I NEVER am.
     
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  7. Crimson_Steel17

    Crimson_Steel17 The night is my solace; the day is my prime

    I agree. As for the bit about the physics of people shooting themselves, they're dumbasses that don't know to check the chamber visually while keeping the firearm pointed AWAY from ANY part of them
     
  8. Shane McNair

    Shane McNair Adrenaline addicted Arwing pilot

    1. Muzzle discipline
    2. Trigger discipline
    3. "ALWAYS treat EVERY firearm as if it is loaded."
    4. "Know your target and what is beyond it."

    Gun safety 101. This is basic shit. If you're too stupid or cavalier to learn and follow the four fundamental rules of gun safety, then you really have no business owning or possessing a firearm to begin with. I support the constitutional rights of all law-abiding Americans to keep and bear arms, 110%. But I'll also readily acknowledge that there are some people who are simply too irresponsible and foolish to be trusted with the exercise and stewardship of these rights. All rights necessarily come with responsibilities attached.
     
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  9. Crimson_Steel17

    Crimson_Steel17 The night is my solace; the day is my prime

    One more for you (that I learned at BSA summer camp): "If you are unsure about ANY part of the shot you are about to take, then do NOT discharge your firearm"

    And you're absolutely right... although you just managed to sum up about 30 rules in 4 points (much better than Daisy could do with their Red Ryder instruction manuals), and I doubt most people take the time to actually pay attention to AND apply them- no wonder so many dumbasses manage to handle a firearm before anyone can trust that they're not a hazard to everyone else on the range. Honestly, I feel that there's a strong argument for requiring schools to educate students on the dangers of (mis)handling firearms, and how to avoid firearm-related injuries- even though I know it will never happen (even as Driver's ed was cut long ago), I still feel it deserves recognition as a option.

    But above all else, it all comes down to "Think, stay calm, and don't do anything without first thinking about the potential consequences if it goes wrong." Just my 2 cents worth, though.
     
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  10. KimberVaile

    KimberVaile Edgy teenage apathy.

    I own a 70's Ruger Six Shot, and a 50's Remington 11-48 automatic 16 gauge shot gun, both were inherited. Can't say I' m a good shot, but they're good guns for what they are, might be because of how overly cautious I am about firing them, but I digress, not oppsoed to gun ownership.
     
    Last edited: Mar 25, 2017
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  11. Kellan Meig'h

    Kellan Meig'h Kilted Coder

    Although I will not get into what was shared by said owners that shot themselves, I'm sure it was failure to safety the weapon, i.e. make damned sure it was unloaded before wiping it down. I almost never observed cleaning supplies in the vicinity when there was a idiot-induced discharge.
     
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  12. Shane McNair

    Shane McNair Adrenaline addicted Arwing pilot

    Absolutely.
     
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  13. Crimson_Steel17

    Crimson_Steel17 The night is my solace; the day is my prime

    Yeah, that's the most common scenario: safety off, didn't visually inspect the chamber, unaware of muzzle direction (towards themselves)... in all honesty, I don't know WHAT makes these people commit that mistake- but I can tell you that it's something I've never done myself (apparent from the lack of bullet holes...)
     
    Last edited: Mar 27, 2017
  14. Rykhoteth

    Rykhoteth I AM A HUGE JIAN PLEASE BREAK MY LEGS

    Honestly I find it surprising people can be absent minded around guns, but worry about things like vaccines and spiders. It's like the opposite of an irrational fear, opposite the fear part.

    [​IMG]
     
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  15. Zenoth

    Zenoth The average chipfox, doing chipfox stuff.

    I second this. When ever i'm cleaning my gun, the safety is on, the mag is out, the chamber is triple checked, and it's disassembled. I think the 'I was cleaning it crowd' are just embarrassed and don't want to own up to their own stupidity.
     
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  16. Kellan Meig'h

    Kellan Meig'h Kilted Coder

    I think some are embarrassed but I feel like the majority of said "Self shootings" were the obvious. They actually didn't feel it necessary to check the chamber. Picked up the weapon, pointed it around like an idiot, then tried to do a few fast draws. What I did notice to be a trend what the fact most injuries were to the legs or hands. Fast draw gone wrong? There seemed to be holsters in view at some of the incidents.

    Story from the "beat" days; I was called to a house where there had been a domestic violence incident the previous week. As I'm rolling code 2/3, I hear an ambulance called by my brethren on scene. The wife, tired of the hubby beating her senseless, pulled his Glock 23 on the dOOd, just to frighten him off. It was loaded and she did not practice safe weapons discipline by keeping her finger out of the trigger guard until ready to shoot. No Bueno. She shot him in the shoulder when he grabbed the weapon and pulled on it to take it from her. Or maybe he actually shot himself by grabbing that Glock? He survived but went to jail for a while because he battered the sh!t out of her. The judge fined her $2,000 USD for discharging a weapon inside the city limits.
     
  17. Zenoth

    Zenoth The average chipfox, doing chipfox stuff.

    Damn that's one hellova situation >.<, maybe next time he'll think twice before battering his wife, though probably not T.T

    On the quick draw thing, I don't know if it's EVERY holster, but the ones I own, on the lil care paper that comes with they have a line that says "while breaking in this holster and getting used to it, do so with an UNLOADED firearm" with the unloaded part in big bold red letters. You know they have to be big bold red letters from people in the past shooting themselves in the leg.

    Some people should just never own or be around firearms ^^.
     
  18. Kellan Meig'h

    Kellan Meig'h Kilted Coder

    Yeah, this. Most leg shots? Dominant side. Most hand shots? Off or weak hand. I have observed that warning notice laying around with the packaging that new holster just came in. I can't remember the brand off-hand. You would think they would at least unload the damned thing before trying to be Quickdraw McGraw.
     
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  19. PoptartPresident

    PoptartPresident A teen chatter box

    I really hate to say this, but I hate guns.
    I think I actually have a phobia just when they're within a mere distance from me. I remember my first time near a gun when my Uncle Ben took me to a shooting gallery in a small town and I was absolutely terrified of just being within a mere distance of that handgun.

    When I held that thing upon request, my hands instantly became clammy, and I began sweating uncontrollably. When I FIRED that thing at the target, I literally jumped at the sound, and dropped the gun on the floor in front of my feet, and it scared the heck out of me and my Uncle.

    I absolutely hate guns, because I am a very anti-violent person.


    And yet, despite my phobia of guns, I want to get one for my future house when I'm older because I'm not particularly strong, and I want to have a sense of security because I know that deep down, there will always be violent and unpredictable people.
    Talk about rhetorical irony...
    X_X
     
  20. Crimson_Steel17

    Crimson_Steel17 The night is my solace; the day is my prime

    I just went back and re-read my post that you replied to... I meant to say "I've never done that"

    Oops... here's to proof reading!
    Hey, no problems to be had with that, man! If you don't like guns, that's cool... I know quite a few people that don't care for them either. And I can really appreciate that you tried firing one before coming to the conclusion that it's not for you... something most of the rest of the anti- crowd doesn't even bother with.

    As for your last point, do what you wish- and yeah, that's some pretty ironic shit right there. But all in all (and this is something both sides of the coin can take to heart in this argument), I respect your opinion and I'm not going to force mine down your throat. You're within your rights to refuse to be around guns, even as I'm within my rights to hit the range whenever possible... you went above and beyond by ruling out being around them by trying it, but that's beside the point.

    This thread is for an informed discussion, and we can have that with both sides of the argument present- the key, however, is to respect that both sides have done some kind of thinking, and each individual has come to his/her own conclusion on the matter... no amount of demanding statistics, debating cause-effect scenarios or anything else is going to "convert" a follower of one position to the other- and it's just bloody rude to that anyway.

    Regardless, thanks for putting up with my wall of text, and have a good one!
     
    Last edited: Mar 27, 2017
  21. Shane McNair

    Shane McNair Adrenaline addicted Arwing pilot

    Well, you definitely don't sound like someone who was raised around guns. I guess your apprehension is understandable, but if you can find an NRA basic firearm safety course to sign up for where you'll have the opportunity to handle and learn about different firearms in a controlled and supervised environment, then I think that would do a lot to help relieve your fears. It will give you the knowledge and confidence you need to feel more comfortable around them.
     
  22. PoptartPresident

    PoptartPresident A teen chatter box

    Oh yeah I wasn't.
    I was raised to be kind, courteous, and to give everyone a chance at participating in my life. And I was taught violence just isn't a good solution to anything.

    But at the same time...ya know. There are crazy people in this world and since I'm not particularly strong (nor do I really want to be), I would still like some sense of personal security around my house.
    (And if I have a future husband, I still don't want to have to rely on someone else)
     
  23. Shane McNair

    Shane McNair Adrenaline addicted Arwing pilot

    One of the things that I've come to realize in my life is that civilization is a myth. All the little civilities and common courtesies that we are accustomed to in daily life go right along with that. The truth is that "civilization" is nothing but an artificial construct, just a thin veneer of falsehood that glosses over the reality of the world that we live in, and that reality is that we live in a naturally violent and uncertain world, and humans are just highly developed animals with inate animal instincts that we can and will revert to under the right circumstances. Just see what happens when the power or water goes off for more than a week, or there is a massive fuel shortage and the grocery store shelves go empty. "Civilization" and social order starts to quickly break down, and people begin reverting to their most base, natural survival instincts. Even the nicest, most decent people can turn violent if they become desperate for food, water, or other essentials. Simply put, it is in our nature to be violent and brutish, just like many other creatures in the natural world. Some of us are more prone to this than others, and sometimes you just have to be prepared to defend yourself from those two-legged predators out there who might view you as their prey. And of course, even under the best circumstances, you can still find yourself in a bad situation. Being aware, being self-sufficient, and being able to defend yourself is a big part of being ready to deal with these facts of life. Because sometimes, you just have no other choice.
     
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  24. PoptartPresident

    PoptartPresident A teen chatter box

    All true.
    Partially why I plan to move to a slightly smaller town where people at least have the common courtesy to know their neighbors names. I can't take much more of this urbanized air anymore.
     
  25. Shane McNair

    Shane McNair Adrenaline addicted Arwing pilot

    That's a very sensible decision.
     
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