Refusing to Refund a Finished Piece

Discussion in 'Art and Illustration' started by Inkblooded, Dec 3, 2017.

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  1. Mikazuki Marazhu

    Mikazuki Marazhu Hawaiian Pizza!

    let her screenshot
    I feel like we need to see thing in it's entirety
     
  2. Inkblooded

    Inkblooded Vampire Goblin

    Uh, no. I'm not going to screenshot it. I've got a lot of harassment in the past for calling out popular artists when they do something wrong, I don't want it happening again.

    If I make an artist beware or similar, it will be anonymous/ on a different account so the artist and their loyal followers can't attack me for it.

    I am a guy by the way.
     
  3. Sariia

    Sariia Member

    Without seeing your conversation screenshotted, no one can actually tell if it's you or the artist who is at fault here, since we're missing both sides of the story via convo.
    Edit; also you STILL never told us how long ago you got the finished product.
     
  4. quoting_mungo

    quoting_mungo Well-Known Member

    Not up for debate. Site rule. No posting personal correspondence.

    Please stop asking for/encouraging other people to break the rules.
     
  5. Inkblooded

    Inkblooded Vampire Goblin

    Ok because people keep asking I guess I'll go over it again.

    I told the artist I wasn't happy with my commission and asked for a refund.

    They said they didn't have any record of me. (that's weird thing number 1)

    I told them to look again.

    They found the commission and then said they wouldn't give a refund because it's completed.
    They asked me why I wasn't happy with it.

    I told them what I said before in the first post, that it doesn't look like my character.

    They stopped replying. A few days passed.

    I sent another note asking if they had seen my previous reply.
    No response.

    Both sent notes were marked as "read," so they definitely saw these.

    One week later I comment on their profile publicly.
    This time they reply.
    They were very rude and indirectly admit to ignoring my notes.
    They said I was being "unreasonable" because I was unhappy with it.

    I tell them that they're being unprofessional and that they need to respond to notes, no matter what. Because saying "no" (even if it's wrong in my opinion) is better than leaving someone with no response. I also told them that they shouldn't make themself deliberately unapproachable and disable comments if they wanted to avoid being noted.

    They said that they refuse to do anything because it was already done and I didn't tell them as soon as it was completed.
    They also told me that it "doesnt matter" and "isnt worth it" because of the price of the icon.
    Then they called me a "scammer" and said I shouldn't be buying art.

    I once again offered them many different ways to solve it.

    They refused, said "all their other customers are happy" so I didn't have the right to be unhappy with them,
    Then they said I "shouldn't have been irresponsible with my money" implying that they don't even value their own work and I shouldn't have paid them.


    I don't see how that matters. No matter if it was a day or a month, if someone's not happy with something they paid for, they should speak up.
    If I got commission majorly wrong and it took the customer a long time to speak up, I would still try to help them.
     
  6. Diretooth

    Diretooth Dire Wolf and Dragon Therianthrope

    At this point, since the details you shared with us cannot be corroborated with evidence, due to both moderator intervention and site rules, the best we could possibly decide is that it doesn't matter, that you should just let it drop, post an Artist Beware if you so feel it, and learn from your mistakes. We do not have any concrete dates of when you received the finished art, nor the exact amount of days between interactions- a few days is not as static as three or five days- and at this point you are either purposefully not sharing details so that you are as in the right as you can be, or you're misunderstanding the question. Not only that, we do not know the amount you spent on the commission, you could have had it done for $1 and we'd never know, that plus there are artists who will demand a refund so that they can in essence have free art.
    Therefore, you should drop the situation or just get it over with posting the AB. The next time you commission someone, you should request WIP (Work in Progress) updates so you can help the artist give you the best possible piece for the amount you paid for, and if you still aren't satisfied, first try to have them make corrections, and if they refuse, and the art is not good enough, then you can (politely!) ask for a partial refund. The artist still took time out of their lives to make you art, they deserve some amount of compensation for their time.
     
    Simo, fralea, CarbonCoal and 3 others like this.
  7. Sariia

    Sariia Member

    Personally if I posted someone's art and they came to me after a month of receiving it and saying it was all wrong, I'd question if they were trying to scam me or just trying to make money back that they didn't know they would need later.

    A time frame DOES make a huge difference. If you let them know immediately that it was off, giving them a quicker timeframe to change it, they're more likely to be much more compliant to change it. But seeing how you HAVE posted with others on the forum, I have a feeling they probably felt like you were being abrasive with it, too. If I had a commissioner come to me being blatantly rude, then I'd want to avoid talking with them too. :/

    Post the Artist Beware if you want to, but I'm not necessarily certain that it's warranted depending on the information we aren't getting here. I have to side with Diretooth on this; we aren't being given all of the information, and without all of that information (even if screenshots can't be posted) it still isn't possible to make a reasonable judgement on who's wrong here.
     
  8. Mikazuki Marazhu

    Mikazuki Marazhu Hawaiian Pizza!

    I'm with Diretooth on this one also :V
     
  9. Inkblooded

    Inkblooded Vampire Goblin

    People who try to scam for free art seem obvious. Theres no way this person cant see that the icon they made doesnt look like my character. Anyone could see that. I have shown it to many people, they all agree. They know my reason is legitimate. Their only excuse is "I dont want to."

    Giving up is admitting defeat and if I back down that will just encourage them to do this to someone else again.
     
  10. linsybat

    linsybat New Member

    Since Inkblooded doesn't want to seem to answer the question, I will.

    They received the finished product six months ago.
     
  11. Inkblooded

    Inkblooded Vampire Goblin

    Did you make an account just to white knight for yourself? That's a new low
     
  12. linsybat

    linsybat New Member

    You said yourself that they have thousands of fans, many of who have been told about what you're doing. :^3c I'm not the artist, just a fan (who also happens to be an artist) who thinks you're somewhat dishonest!

    Edit: Anyway, since it seems Ink is a little shy now, I'll be happy to provide more context on behalf of Ink and the artist! I'm just one of the artist's Twitter followers, but I have very little patience for things like this, so after some snooping I came across the thread.

    This is all over a $4.00 icon that was finished, as I said, 6 months ago. The artist has been incredibly confused and asking for advice on what to do, and I just have to say, given this situation? If anyone deserves an Artist Beware, Ink, it's you. You are a grown adult who is harassing someone over a $4 template icon that was finished half a year ago, threatening to ruin their reputation and skirting details in your summaries so you can look like you're in the right. Stop this. Let it go and learn a lesson: if you don't like a commission then don't wait 6 months to tell someone.

    By the way: the icon looks just like your character. It's a white-haired cat person with white ears and reddish eyes. With black nail polish (claws?) to boot. I don't know what kind of magical details you were expecting the artist to make up in order to dazzle you, but they drew what the were given well enough. Especially for four dollars.
     
    Last edited: Dec 8, 2017
  13. Sariia

    Sariia Member

    It isn't "white knighting" if it's giving an accurate portrayal of details that you've intentionally left out of the scenario that we've asked for several times. Especially when it's details that make this situation so much different from an artist just 'refusing to refund you' or redo a piece for you.

    Six months ago? You waited half a year to tell an artist that you didn't like the piece they did for you for literally four dollars? At that point this is a principal of actually harassing someone, either for more free art of the character or out of some old grudge for them, it sounds like. It's commission etiquette to let an artist know that there's something wrong with the piece immediately if you haven't received what you wanted to/desired. Waiting six months to tell them, then making threats to put up an artist beware for a four dollar icon is childish and demeaning. I would definitely suggest that artist put up a buyer beware/commissioner beware over someone who comes up six months later with a complaint about old art.

    Actually, I have to add an edit because I'm just so appalled by this. Like, not only did you mislead us into thinking that it was some kind of more expensive art by refusing to list the amount you paid and that it was a TEMPLATE icon, which are usually constrained to the same kind of art that you see on the template, but also the amount of entitlement that is obvious from this now shows that you probably handled this extremely poorly (and the artist having no record of you commissioning them is much more apparent, I wouldn't remember a commission of that small scale six months later too.) I really hope you don't commission anyone else if you're that picky over the smallest details, because no artist deserves to be harassed like this over someone not liking a $4 icon. Especially not six months after it's been done.

    Giving up here isn't 'admitting defeat'. The only thing it's doing is being a decent person and realizing you're being extremely unreasonable in this situation and the artist doesn't owe you changes on such an old piece at all.
     
    Last edited: Dec 8, 2017
  14. Inkblooded

    Inkblooded Vampire Goblin

    Did she pay you write that response? Go away. I can't believe you're defending her. If you cant use reference sheets and get basic designs right you shouldnt take commissions.
     
  15. Sariia

    Sariia Member

    Me? I don't know the artist, I'm just operating on common sense and basic human decency, as well as my experience as both a commissioner and an artist that this kind of behavior is completely unacceptable and blatantly harassment of an innocent artist.
     
    CarbonCoal likes this.
  16. linsybat

    linsybat New Member

    Could it be that maybe, possibly, when people learn the actual details of this story, they're bound to be upset and want to defend the person that is literally being harassed over a 4 dollar icon that was finished six months ago??

    No? I must be paid? Can't have my own morals? Right, right, makes sense.
     
    CarbonCoal, Tenseki and Sariia like this.
  17. Inkblooded

    Inkblooded Vampire Goblin

    It's not harassment nor is she innocent. Are you ignoring the fact that she got the commission painfully wrong? Or that she admitted to ignoring my notes instead of giving me a clear answer? Or disabling comments so people can't comment on their recieved art? Or saying herself that her art isn't worth buying?
     
  18. Inkblooded

    Inkblooded Vampire Goblin

    If she would be REASONABLE and polite and offer to help resolve the issue instead of being hostile and rude, then maybe I will stop "harassing" her.

    She outright refuses to help in ANY WAY or even claim responsibility for the error. Even when I offered her other options than a refund, she has still acted unprofessional and immature.

    I can't afford to throw my money away needlesaly. Maybe some of you on here can. But not me.
     
  19. Sariia

    Sariia Member

    1. It doesn't matter how wrong the commission is if you literally wait for six months to tell the artist that. That's not proper etiquette on getting repairs done on your commission to make it to your liking. Waiting six months is like taking a car back to the dealer and trying to return it because you don't like how it drives--not acceptable and the dealer will laugh in your face.

    2. Your attitude has CLEARLY been rude and abrasive, as well as demanding over the entire situation. After checking out the artist, and seeing you've sent people to ATTACK her over this?? I would ignore you too!

    3. It isn't uncommon that artists disable comments on their main deviantart pages. It's to keep things tidy if you're a more popular deviantart user so comments and notifications aren't lost on your page and people can bring themselves into your INBOX to handle matters like this.

    It doesn't matter what she says about her art. YOU chose to buy it. YOU chose to pay the four dollars. Now, six months later, YOU are choosing to harass this artist because YOUR standards have obviously changed. She is not the one at fault here. If you wanted changes you should have brought it to her within a reasonable timeframe instead of literally right before Christmas, when many artists are scrambling to finish commissions as quickly as possible to make ends meet for holiday money. She owes you NOTHING and as far as I, and most reasonable see it? The only issue here is with you being unreasonable and literally DRAGGING AN ARTIST'S NAME THROUGH THE MUD TO YOUR FRIENDS while LYING BLATANTLY over how you are handling the situation. We asked you several times how long it has been since your commission was completed, and the fact you BLATANTLY REFUSED TO TELL US tells me that you know that you are in the wrong here, but are refusing to admit it.
     
  20. linsybat

    linsybat New Member

    Again, it looks like your character, or as much as it can with the limitations of the template. And, again, I don't know what magical traits you wanted her to give to this character of yours to make it look "more" like them.

    I've seen these messages you sent, I've seen the messages your friend sent, and I don't blame her for being confused, disoriented, and non-responsive. You're being a bully and threatening her over pocket change you threw at her, again, HALF A YEAR AGO. She didn't say her art isn't worth buying, she said that YOU were irresponsible with your money considering how desperately you're trying to get it back, for who knows what reason. If 4 dollars means this much to you after so long, then you do need to reconsider how you spend your money.

    Again, if anyone needs a post written about them, it is absolutely 100% you. You're being ridiculous and escalating this situation to dizzying heights for no legitimate reason.
     
    CarbonCoal and Tenseki like this.
  21. Inkblooded

    Inkblooded Vampire Goblin

    1. I did not "wait six months." I wanted to tell immediately but I felt like i couldnt because she had comments disabled, and I hate making confrontations about art because drama like this ALWAYS HAPPENS. Its stressful. The reason I finally said something after months is because my friends advised me to. And for the record, she was not the only one I contacted, anyone else I contacted after months wasnt concerned about the time.

    2. I never sent anyone to attack her! You are making that up. I am against petty drama and I want nothing to do with it, I just want my problem solved.

    3. She also says she "doesnt read notes." And hides profile comments from users... hmm. Seems like she deloberately doesnt want people to contact.

    4. I never asked her for a refund on the spot. I only asked if it was POSSIBLE. I do not care if that means waiting for a refund. Or even something else if she doesnt want to refund. As long as it gets resolved in the end that's fine.

    Its not that she is unable to help. She just simply doesnt want to. And thats not good enough.

    For someone who "doesnt know who the artist is" you sure know a lot of details.
     
  22. Sariia

    Sariia Member

    You obviously don't hate making confrontations six months later after it is appropriate to do so! You can send notes! I'm sure you sent a note to commission the art or a comment on something to buy the art???

    I told you, I went and found the artist on twitter because you aren't exactly making it a secret. They're displaying their clear confusion and alarm at a situation that you are inappropriately blowing up way out of proportion. It's also clear to see that you were threatening to them and completely beyond being reasonable. I suggest you cut your losses because this is on you for not sending her a note within a REASONABLE time frame to have your commission fixed.
     
  23. linsybat

    linsybat New Member

    I follow her on Twitter, I already stated this. She's posted all of this to try and get help because she isn't sure what to do about you. Truth me, if I were in her shoes, you would have been laughed out of the room from the get-go, you snake.

    The commission was finished in May. You didn't say anything until November. I don't care what reason you give, that's on you. It isn't her fault that you didn't muster the nerve to ask until that point. And I also don't care about these hypothetical ~~other artists~~. We're not talking about them. No artist is obligated to give you a refund 6 MONTHS after a product is completed.

    There is no problem. You paid for a commission, you got a commission, you're crying about it half a year later. You are the problem. Solving it is no one's task but your own.

    You asked and she told you no. That's the end of the story! Given everything we know, you aren't entitled to one either. Cut your losses and go home, kid. I wouldn't want to help you, either.
     
    Katook and fralea like this.
  24. Sariia

    Sariia Member

    Actually, you know what? I'm done here. It's clear that you don't have the emotional maturity to own up to the fact that you're literally harassing an artist over something that isn't her fault, and that you're blaming her for responding reasonably to your ridiculous demands.

    The artist is Blushily on Twitter. I'll let you guys decide whose side you're going to take after getting the WHOLE story.
     
    Katook and CarbonCoal like this.
  25. Inkblooded

    Inkblooded Vampire Goblin

    Like I said, it was only after people reassured me that it was OK and right for me to tell them.
    When it was first posted I did not feel like I could speak up. Also this wasnt the only timr, there were others, and they were all OK eith late replues. Time is no excuse.

    That's the biggest lie I have ever heard.
    I don't use twitter, and this exchange was on DA. So how could you possibly find them on twitter? You know them.

    If they dont want to be "confused and alarmed" they need to TALK TO ME. My first ew notes where nowhere near rude, neither was the first profile comment. It was only when they refused to reply t all that I started to get more pushy.

    All this could've been avoided if she actually responded with me and tried to work WITH me instead of defending her actions and blaming it all on me.

    It still could be fixed if they are willing to talk it out like an adult instead of having an immaturr white knight parade. If she has a problem with me speaking up, then she needs to NOTE ME and talk it through. And her only, before you get any ideas, no speaking for her. If you're a commission artist you must be prepared to talk to customers. Even the ones you dont like. I have had very rude people contact me but I didn't behave hostile to them, even when they actively insult and try to attack me I still try my best to find a solution. So far, it has worked.
     
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