RMFC 2017 canceled

Discussion in 'Furry Conventions' started by brian577, Apr 11, 2017.

  1. Yakamaru

    Yakamaru Animu Wolf

    ^ I do not watch the news, nor do I watch the trending tab. I have plenty of videos and other sources I can link, as I have have stated. The livestream(on the site) video I linked in my previous post have an M80 thrown by ANTIFA into a Pro-Trump group at Berkeley, at around the 25 minute mark. You haven't seen the livestream, I would guess. Nor any of the videos showing ANTIFA for what they truly are: Thugs.

    Tim Pool doesn't sit on his ass someplace safe. He jumps into the middle of it, and as his trip to Sweden has shown, could have had dire consequences if he'd stayed there longer.

    I am against fascism too, however, I do not go and fuck up someone elses free speech event, throwing M80's, beating up people until they bleed and/or are unconscious, nor do I go to rallies whose people I personally disagree with, with hidden weapons with the intention of "collecting some Nazi scalps".

    And you believe blocking people's right to speak their mind is ok? Neo-Nazi or not, they are free to speak their mind.

    I know ANTIFA stands for "anti-fascist". However, all I am seeing, across the entire board from journalists and videos, is them acting like fascists, what they claim to oppose.

    fasc•ism (făshˈĭzˌəm)

    • n.
      A system of government marked by centralization of authority under a dictator, stringent socioeconomic controls, suppression of the opposition through terror and censorship, and typically a policy of belligerent nationalism and racism.
    • n.
      A political philosophy or movement based on or advocating such a system of government.
    • n.
      Oppressive, dictatorial control.
    ^ The dictionary definition of fascism, which I follow.

    If ANTIFA, BLM, etc, keeps this shit up, National Socialism is becoming more and more alluring as the days go by.

    Also. Allow me to introduce you to yet another lunatic group: BAMN, By Any Means Necessary.

    Again. This isn't some small group inside ANTIFA. This IS ANTIFA. Until I see ANTIFA members condemning the violent actions of other ANTIFA members, I will look upon ANTIFA, as a whole group, as violent fascist thugs.
  2. Pipistrele

    Pipistrele Smart batto!

    Welp, I already made my claims about your arguments of "every antifa group/member being a shithead", which I totally disagree (and explained in reasonable lengths why), so I'll just ask you to rewatch (and maybe demonstrate) some of that footage - most likely all of aforementioned "actions" will be about same 3 or 4 groups like BAMN or Antifasistisk Aktion. Just for sake of good discussion, do more research about organizations like NAAR (folks who mainly do promotional campaigns against racism and fascism) or Brighton Antifascists (rather aggressive and direct, but still with strong "no violence" code) - I mean, you can throw at me all the dictionary definitions you want, but as of now, information you provide to me looks a bit one-sided to give your statement a solid ground.

    I mean, it's not like they "just want to chill out and spread intelligent, thought-out messages about advantages of nationalism" on those parades - they're usually walking around with anti-semitic banners and making praises for Hitler, who was pretty much one huge mass murderer. To a degree, I can agree that everybody has to be free to speak their mind, but you should also be responsible for what you're saying or showing off, especially in the country that was damaged by WWII the most in the long run (not in casualties, but in ongoing reputation of being "that nation that screwed everybody over"). My idea of "speaking the mind" is to try and make a reasonable, understandable statement - if you're waving around insulting banners and mindlessly screaming accolades for a guy who's responsible for millions of horrible deaths, without even trying to make a reason of all this spectacle, you're kind of asking for a fight by default.

    I'll repeat that "ANTIFA" is an umbrella term for anti-fascists in general (and anti-fascist groups in particuler). Why one members should condemn other members if they're not that connected in the first place? After all, if one antifa members have to speak up for other antifa members, doesn't that connect them even more into that "huge circle of thuggery"? If they follow your advice, in a way it'll only give you more reasons to hate the movement :D

    (also, using /pol/ meme vids to prove your point isn't a very good idea. A bit no good idea. Not gud. Nop)
    Last edited: Apr 25, 2017
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  3. Yakamaru

    Yakamaru Animu Wolf

    Tim Pool's livestream video is de facto how it went down in Berkeley. Go watch it. Go watch Naked Ape's video on ANTIFA. Go watch Sargon of Akkad's video on ANTIFA. Go watch Kraut and Tea's video on ANTIFA.

    Brighton Antifascists:

    Quote: "Welcome to Brighton Antifascists. We are an independent group, based in Brighton, that formed as a response to an increase in nationalist and fascist activity in our community. We are willing to confront any fascist/racist activities in our area, by encouraging mass direct action amongst other methods. We are not aligned with any political party, nor do we co-operate with any, we also don’t work with the police. The state cannot be relied upon to oppose fascism, and will tolerate or encourage fascist groups when it suits its purposes."

    ^ What does "willing to confront any fascist/racist activities in our area, by encouraging mass direct action amongst other methods" and "we also don't work with the police" mean? Sounds a lot like taking shit into your own hands to me.

    "Mass direct action". Sounds a lot like lynch mobs. And according to the LAW, it is not illegal to be a fascist nor racist.

    There's being responsible for your actions, nothing more. These people are not violent, the ones protesting and attacking them are. I am not defending their beliefs, I am defending their right to say whatever the fuck they want. Free speech works in a way that everyone is allowed to hold any beliefs they want, express them however they want, and talk to anyone they want. Given that they talk to the ones who are willing to listen, and they follow the laws, which they do. You are free to protest whatever the fuck you want, however, you are not allowed to actively block, suppress, oppress or otherwise silence any individual, group or movement you don't agree with.

    There are NO laws broken. There are NO laws that prevents/suppresses hateful speech. It is not illegal to be Anti-Semitic, otherwise, the Muslims going about in both France and Germany would be jailed en masse by waving ISIS flags in the streets.

    However, if we're going to talk about death tolls..

    Communism have killed tens of millions. The Holocaust and the 2nd World War's a fucking picnic in comparison. If anything, Communism is way worse than Nazism. I am not condoning either, however, Communism have de facto killed way more.
    Death toll of communism - Conservapedia

    That said: I do not care who or what your beliefs are, as long as you follow the law. Which the alleged neo-Nazis actually do: ANTIFA doesn't.

    Hating something/someone is not illegal. Acting upon that hate however, is.

    Words ≠ Actions.

    ANTIFA is a group, a movement. Their actions speak for themselves. And as a group, they have individual responsibility to reel each other in if or when a member steps out of bounds. Or are they all free to do whatever the fuck they want?

    Oh, and btw..
    www.foxnews.com: UC Berkeley riots: Violence looms as mayor questioned over ties to extremist group
    ^ Mayor of Berkeley may have extremist ties. How odd..
    FBI Allegedly Investigating Mayor of Berkeley, CA For Inciting Riot And Ordering Police to Stand Down - CNN Doing Damage Control | Zero Hedge
    ^ FBI aren't allowed to say if they are in fact investigating someone. No matter what they find, the results may be interesting.
    pjmedia.com: UN 'Human Rights Chief: 'Legal Obligation To Stop Hate Speech'
    ^ Oh, and another article you might want to check out..

    If you're not interested in listening and understanding why I have the views I have by watching the videos/source material I've provided(I can provide WAY more), then we are done here, as I am not interested in continuing a pointless conversation.
    Last edited: Apr 25, 2017
  4. Dedskunk

    Dedskunk Member

    So what? He severed his time. His sex offender conviction had nothing to do with the situation. It was dug up and used as an excuse. Also this fandom is full of sex offenders so your statement is invalid.
    >I'm going to this con to punch people I don't like
    >gets cease-and-desist
    >OMG their preventing me from punching people I don't like, better shut it down
    Deo made the treat first and a person proposed to defend himself from that threat. After still claiming she would pursue the threat, she got banned. Do you know what happened after she got banned? She dug up dirt on the manager, wrote a hitpiece, claimed she was threatened by a fucking DMCA and spread the hitpiece to everyone in the press.
    c-citation please

    like I said, the furry raiders were edgelords and we know what happens to edgelord groups. What about Dixiefurs? Will they be next? Will AZ furcon be shut down because everyone in Arizona is an "ebul racist"? This is the point when a "subculture" can be officially declared dead.
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  5. Yakamaru

    Yakamaru Animu Wolf

    What's next?

    Anthrocon's getting cancelled because someone's fee-fee's got hurt due to a slight disagreement?

    Furries fucking love drama. The Drama Llama's having a field day constantly in this fandom. He's like an opposite Santa Claus: Works 365 days a year, 24/7. And everywhere.
  6. Andromedahl

    Andromedahl Unlicensed UFO Pilot

    I should really just sit back and keep my yap shut but while I understand every news source is gonna be biased towards one side or another, in the states at least, Fox is considered right wing to the point where their stuff is seen more as opinion pieces rather than hard facts when they're talking about national news.

    Rather conspiratorial site, no?

    Also kinda still more of an opinion place...

    Like I get debate is kinda just opinion vs. opinion but -less- of a bias will help your case out. (I say less as I can acknowledge there's seldom a neutral.)

    S'my $0.02. Political stuff ain't my strong suit tho.
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  7. Royn

    Royn Otterest Sergal evah!

    lol just does not even touch how much this made laugh. Still laughing. Fricken brilliant. Brilliant. lol
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  8. Yakamaru

    Yakamaru Animu Wolf

    I can cite other sources instead?

    Sweden Creates 55 "No-Go Zones" As It Loses Control Of Refugee Crisis | Zero Hedge
    ^ Police in Sweden can confirm this.

    Russia Warns Norway Over Missile Defense Plans | Zero Hedge

    "In a time of universal deceit - telling the truth is a revolutionary act." - George Orwell

    "Political language. . . is designed to make lies sound truthful and murder respectable, and to give an appearance of solidity to pure wind." - George Orwell

    Truth may seem more fiction than actual fiction.

    A decent amount Alex Jones' conspiracies are coming true, although some of the shit he does say is just.. Funny.

    What was conspiracies yesterday is fact today. And you'd be amazed how many conspiracies have been proven to be true in the past decade alone, thanks to WikiLeaks, Edward Snowden and other whistleblowers. Oh, and other leak sources, too.

    The Drama Llama's definitely doing his rounds. Especially since Trump got elected. Never seen such levels of butthurt in my entire life.
  9. Zenoth

    Zenoth The average chipfox, doing chipfox stuff.

    2 had some good thoughts on RMFC I think.
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  10. Royn

    Royn Otterest Sergal evah!

    the butthurt is enormously exacerbated by the fact that nary a one even truly knows why they are while all the time believing fervently that they do. Very sad that it turns out that there are at least two generations in the USA that are just.... well.... Gullibly stupid.
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  11. Yakamaru

    Yakamaru Animu Wolf

    You have no idea how fun this video is. And that on Social Justice. Hell, his bawks/rants in general are awesome.

    He fucking hits the nail on the head. Again. In a hilarious way.
  12. Pipistrele

    Pipistrele Smart batto!

    Welp, I just fail to see a meaningful argument yet, mainly because I still haven't got a good proof that all/most antifa groups are bad (something I specifically asked for - to cite more than particular 3-4 groups), and you ranted out on Brighton Antifascists without, again, properly researching their statements on use of violence (which is kind of mentioned in several of their blog submissions - "direct confrontation" isn't a funny word for "beating folks in the face" here), so, eh, I'm not convinced. Again, aforementioned sources are either mention antifa as some kind of global movement, which is kind of biased by default, or, again, talk about same exact groups doing all the crap.

    As for neo-nazi parades, it's veeeeeeeery shady - such behavior basically borders on harassment, so it's not unusual for such parades to be eventually shut down by police in their mid-run. And again, are you justifying harassment of war veterans and holocaust survivors as long as it technically follows the law? Just a good moral question for ya.

    Either way, I consider this topic a bit too toxic and pointless, and I didn't really want to participate in it that much in the first place, mainly because I don't see how anti-fascist movements and politic events are related to some con being cancelled .з. You should slow down a bit on using every thread to spread your political views - I mean, nothing personal against you, but people come here to discuss the topic in title, not "listening and understanding what views you have" :D
    Mandragoras likes this.
  13. Yakamaru

    Yakamaru Animu Wolf

    ^ ANTIFA in a nutshell. Welcome to ANTIFA.

    The truth hurts.

    And that will be my final post on the subject. This trash isn't worth wasting anymore time on.
    Last edited: Apr 25, 2017
  14. Pipistrele

    Pipistrele Smart batto!

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  15. Royn

    Royn Otterest Sergal evah!

    Find it comical that the "Antifascist" Groups are.... exactly the opposite of what they proclaim to be. That, by definition, makes them all completely stupid.
    Yakamaru likes this.
  16. Troj

    Troj Well-Known Member

    Well, I've often said that extremists of any type resemble each other more than they do the moderates on their own "side."

    RMFC's demise was due to a perfect storm of multiple contributing factors. The Raiders need to be held accountable for their part, the convention for theirs, and some of the anti-Raiders for theirs. Hell, even onlookers might be might share some portion of the blame for not takinga a stronger stand against certain behaviors early on. If one of these parties had actually done the right thing in their case, we might've seen a different outcome.

    If particular Raiders didn't think it was "cute" to "troll" people using racist and/or obnoxious rhetoric and wink-wink allusions to Neo-Nazism; if they had answered people's questions about their philosophy and agenda honestly and clearly; if they'd responded earnestly to people's concerns about the armbands; if they hadn't openly harassed people online and IRL; and if they hadn't monopolized that room block at RMFC last year, people wouldn't be so angry with them.

    If the seemingly-well-intentioned Raiders had dealt with maybe the three or so people who always seem to be at the center of the drama-storm instead of sticking their heads in the sand, maybe the Raiders would've been able to salvage their reputation before it was set in stone.

    If anti-Raiders had taken a deep breath, compiled a list of specific grievances with specific Raiders, and had come up with a plan for dealing with those specific people that didn't involve bragging about "punching Nazis" or actually trying to get physical with Raiders at gatherings, maybe things wouldn't have gone on security high alert.

    If people took a more nuanced view of the Raiders and what drives them, maybe we would've been able to formulate a strategy for dealing with them that wouldn't have resulted in trolls being fed, drama llamas getting to play the martyr, and the embarrassing "Nazis take over a furry convention" headline being blasted all over the global news.

    If Raider sympathizers had calmed their tits instead of getting physical with anti-Raiders and/or automatically threatening to shoot, punch, or assault people, again, maybe we could've avoided a freakout over impending violence.

    (Especially in this current political climate, I'd say everybody needs to cool it with the threats of violence.)

    The writing on the wall emerged a long time ago, and the con just seemed really reluctant to actually confront the whole issue and draw definitive lines in the sand until it was too late--and then, one dude decided to take matters into his own hands without consulting anyone else, and the rest is history. (Then, we have the whole side story around their tax situation, which has turned into another he-said she-said debate.)

    But, on a brighter note, at least this allowed the Boozy Barrister to discover the fandom, and his blog and Twitter account have been a lantern unto the darkness.
    Last edited: Apr 26, 2017
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  17. Simo

    Simo Skunk

    I would like to spray the raiders.
  18. Troj

    Troj Well-Known Member

  19. Yakamaru

    Yakamaru Animu Wolf

    "Once again, the only reason people think the Furry Raiders are nazis is because of their choice of organization badge that they stick on black jackets. That is the entire root, that then escalated with no further evidence. No talk of antisemitism has been heard, no mention of a "master race," and no elitism has been observed outside of wanting to help their fellow fur."

    I've yet to see any actual evidence that the Furry Raiders themselves have said they actually are neo-Nazis. Calling someone a Nazi doesn't make them one, no matter how many times you say it.

    And even if they were neo-Nazis: Who cares? They have as much right to be and call themselves Furries the same way everyone else have.

    This is basically pointless drama and attempting to call someone something that there is NO evidence of actually being fact.

  20. Mr. Fox

    Mr. Fox Well-Known Member

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