should there be free fur suit making internships for beginners

Discussion in 'Community Discussion' started by Alexander001, Nov 10, 2017.

  1. Alexander001

    Alexander001 Member

    think of the future possibilities not only would it better the quality of suit makers but also add help to project and introduce your style and make a possible partner to help with the work load that fursuits entail. on top of that the term free applies both ways the intern would be compensated with knowledge and the fursuit maker would knock off some time spend on projects as well as being able to increase a positive impact on others. listen to me ramble anyway just my thoughts[​IMG]
  2. Crimcyan

    Crimcyan Another fucking wolf

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    Hate to break it to you, but making fursuits isnt a full time job that would need apprenticeships in.
    Ginza, Yakamaru and Pipistrele like this.
  3. Alexander001

    Alexander001 Member

    yeah just a topic i want to ruin like everything else we touch in this fandom i must say that thread on bettering the fandoms social image was intertaining
  4. Telnac

    Telnac Fundamentalist Heretic

    A vast majority of fursuits are self-made. For most it’s a labor of love not a commodity to be traded. Those who do make professional suits don’t make massive profits. It’s a labor of love for them too.
    JustSomeDude84 and Pipistrele like this.
  5. Mr. Fox

    Mr. Fox Well-Known Member

    I can never take anyone that says that seriously when most high end fursuits sell at 3k+.
  6. dogryme6

    dogryme6 Destructive Faffer

    Gonna jump into that and say I think a lot of the costs of the fursuit comes from the amount of rather luxurious resources needed to build one with and the work that goes into putting it together.
    They're not building plushies to give to everyone. They're making full life-sized suits for a human to wear, that's pretty big doncha think?
    Plus they've gotta eat too, if they're not making much of a profit from their job it's not exactly worth doing now is it? So what's worth it to them may be a couple hundred more bucks off of each customer, so they can afford to sustain their business and livelihood.
    Sorry to say fam but if everyone could make and wear fursuits they like there wouldn't be as much demand or value in them. So don't treat it like plush toys.
    JustSomeDude84 likes this.
  7. Mr. Fox

    Mr. Fox Well-Known Member

    Well, yeah, the complexity of the design and quality of materials all adds up in the final cost. That's a bit of a no-brainer.

    Never implied they were, but another commodity that can get up to fursuit prices in the fandom. Let's not pretend they don't get pricy too.

    Which is why I find it humorous when people say fursuits are not a profitable business. Thought I made that point clear? Horrible experience with bigger fa users

    Read above.
  8. dogryme6

    dogryme6 Destructive Faffer

    Crap, I guess I wasn't reading... Shouldn't have "jumped into that one."
  9. Yakamaru

    Yakamaru I stubbed my log on a car!


    Should bananas be considered a vehicle?

    Get off the weed, mate. And ask yourself "Is this a question I should be asking myself let alone other people?"
    Crimcyan and dogryme6 like this.
  10. Mr. Fox

    Mr. Fox Well-Known Member

    Apparently, they are.

    Scales42 and dogryme6 like this.
  11. Yakamaru

    Yakamaru I stubbed my log on a car!

    I was waiting for you to link that one. <3

    Also. Food on the drive? Hell yeah!
  12. -..Legacy..-

    -..Legacy..- Sergal Mafia :P

    I'm just going to step in here real quick with a few observations. I've ran three businesses over my life. There are a lot of numbers that go into what is considered "final retail value".

    First, there's the obvious. Materials. If you use lower priced materials, obviously the price can go down. The downside, is that so does overall quality perception. 3k suits aren't made with closeout bin scraps, these guys are buying the best they can obtain. It's also one of the materials you can't make "in house" to lower production costs. Silicone parts can be, but any quick glance shows that retail shelf prices for these are pretty low anyways. Literally anyone can make silicone molded product in their kitchen.

    Two: Time. Reputation, demand, speed, and quality level are big variants to figuring how much one can charge. What is their time worth, basically. A first time suit maker, with little to know experience, simply can't demand to be paid equally, per hour, as one who has been making high level suits for a decade. They will also get the same job done faster than the inexperienced, which is a big plus for some buyers.

    Three: Quality. This ties into both materials, and experience. Knowing where you need to add a bit of extra stiching, to ensure a stress area doesn't fail, is just an example. Maybe material X just can't handle a particular environment. Quality has many aspects, and long product life can command a premium. Think offbrand electronics versus name brand.

    Here's the invisible costs. Tooling. Does the maker use a yard sale set of tools, or are they using a new state of the art digital sewing machine? Do they value a set of professionally sharpened scissors, or a pair of $3 shears from harbor freight? Service life is a real thing, and the costs of maintaining tooling are in the costs. A successful business knows they should maintain this tooling, or it's going to fail at the worst possible time. Buy cheap and replace often, or buy high and spend less maintaining it.

    There's more like mentioned before. Electricity, shop space, shipping costs. The list goes on.
    Sarachaga, Telnac, Ginza and 2 others like this.
  13. Astusthefox

    Astusthefox The King of Games

    Don't forget supply demand too. There aren't that many furries out there who want to or can afford a suit, on top of that there are a lot of suit makers which creates an uneasy balance for supply and demand
  14. -..Legacy..-

    -..Legacy..- Sergal Mafia :P

    Yep, and I left that one out because of how volatile it could be. Makers drop prices to create volume, others crank up prices for more profit and to make themselves harder to get commissioned (creating thier own demand), others just randomly appear to pick prices. There is no clear standard of value, so it's all interpretation.

    I see it this way. You generally have low partial with paws and tail, same partial with head, and full suit.

    If I went into business for this market, I'd be belting out the partials without heads. Tails and paws only, with the highest quality materials I could get. Emphasis on the tail volume. You are in a larger market of easy to swallow price ranges, and although the margins are smaller per item, the volume makes up for the much smaller time investment.
    Astusthefox likes this.
  15. I'd say the closest thing to an internship for something as specialized as that is just peer review and interaction. Joining a community of fursuit makers and sharing tips and tricks as well as answering questions with each other can go a long way to developing your skill-set. There are a lot of different specialized careers that involve this kind of skill-set, such as a furrier who deals with synthetic materials or even just a tailor, where you can gain experience there too.

    I don't know much about fursuit-makers, but I'd guess that a traditional internship would be very uncommon if a lot of the fursuit-makers operate as independent crafters, such as just one crafts-person instead of a team.
    -..Legacy..- likes this.
  16. Alexander001

    Alexander001 Member

    alright i think i understand. i'm just trying to propose that
    1) amateur fur suit makers can get more experience
    2) time in which a project can be shorten in best case scenario
    3) as you have all said in one form or another it's retail or a hobby and one of the big factors in a successful product is demand, or how much a customer wants the said product
    4) quality of amateur fur suit makers will increase making over all quality better and you can get good too great quality for less than 3k

    we can all agree that this fandom is driven by art in one way or another am i wrong?
  17. -..Legacy..-

    -..Legacy..- Sergal Mafia :P

    It is, but why would a business intentionally train competition?
  18. Crimcyan

    Crimcyan Another fucking wolf

    Your forgeting the main point. Most people buy the fursuit from someone beacuse of the artist who makes them..

    What you are saying would be like going to commission a artist to draw for you and they said "sure i will just get my brother to draw it"
    -..Legacy..- likes this.
  19. Saiko

    Saiko GTWT Survivor

    On the topic of “free internships,” I’d also point out that the US Department of Labor is very particular about those. The core of it is that “experience” is generally not considered compensation for work, so a business is not allowed to benefit from the work of an unpaid intern. Although a fursuit maker might be in a gray area regarding the definition of “business,” I advise against any such free internship.
    -..Legacy..- likes this.
  20. silveredgreen

    silveredgreen Determined Dragon

    I know if i'm paying a maker to make my suit, i don't want it being made by a bunch of unpaid interns who know jack shit about suitmaking. If you really wanna learn, there are plenty of youtube tutorials on how to make a fursuit.
  21. Sarachaga

    Sarachaga You gain Brouzouf

    Hm. I think that would be a bit complicated to implement. Plenty of fursuit makers do it as an activity "on the side", and while bigger makers could tend to function more like small businesses, I don't think they'd be keen on taking interns.
  22. Alexander001

    Alexander001 Member

    ok this turned to shit fast i get were all you are gonig and think all are extremely valid. why spend nearly 3k on a suit that's being made by novices but were i hoped to go with this thread was to give an idea not change the way you all think. am i trying to purpose a shit crazy idea that has 0% chance to actually happen? yes. ask yourself this would you rather pay 3k for a fantastic fursuit or would you pay 1k for nearly if not the same quality that's what i want to illustrate in this particular thread. not arguing the logic of big name fursuit makers not wanting to train compition but hobbists helping other hobbyists improve their hobby.
  23. -..Legacy..-

    -..Legacy..- Sergal Mafia :P

    That already exists. There are thousands of tutorial videos on YouTube at this very moment. They are also very detailed, for the most part.
    Crimcyan likes this.
  24. Alexander001

    Alexander001 Member

    yes i know of the youtube video tutiorials
  25. In general, the business usually employs their trainee to some degree (and pays them), so they are largely acting as an assistant and not direct competition. Another important factor is that many industries circulate qualified employees and let them choose other positions at different companies to prevent skilled labor from stagnating in one place. Taking on newly-trained employees to replace the skilled labor that is leaving their company helps compensate for their departure.

    This model has also been applied to artists. Leonardo da Vinci had pupils who would paint with him in his studio, and they would take lessons while he worked on his own projects. Their work was their own, however, which is how the Spanish Museo del Prado obtained a pupil's copy of the Mona Lisa.

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