The Perpetual Victim, a discussion.

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by reptile logic, Nov 19, 2017.

  1. reptile logic

    reptile logic An imposter among aliens.

    I'm older than most here on this site. I have seen, and experienced, quite a lot over these many years. Here is one observation concerning current human behavior:

    Disclaimer: I fully understand that there is evil in the world and that the truly innocent can become victims of many crimes. Let us agree that we are not talking about that group of people here.

    These days, many individuals have become perpetual victims. When things go wrong in their lives, they are generally not at fault. Through some combination of upbringing and local environment, these habitual victims have come to the conclusion that the world, and the people in it, are actively working to make their lives miserable. I'm sure that instances can be cited to back some of these claims, but the fact of the matter is that, as a whole, the world does not care. Most people on this planet do not care. Few, if any, of the remaining population have any desire to expend the energy required to make a stranger's life uncomfortable or unbearable.

    To the perpetual victim; you are not the center of the life of any stranger here or anywhere else outside of your inner circle. No one but you knows your own thoughts. Few will bother to spend time looking to find your buttons so they can push them. A few more than that are willing to, for kicks, push the buttons that you have provided, and highlighted, by demonstrating that those buttons indeed work very well. Remember though, you gave those people that power; they did not wrest it from you. If you insist on looking at the world and all human behavior through a narrow, 'me'-centric view, then you will remain the victim. You have chosen to relinquish your power to the uncaring world. It will never appreciate the gift.

    Edit: In order to gain direction here, I have posted the Question provided by JustSomeDude84, "How did the trend of self-victimization gain such traction?" Many thanks. Nov 19, 17, 1647PST
     
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2017
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  2. Butt_Ghost

    Butt_Ghost Caffeine-based lifeform.

    This is a really constructive thread that for sure won't turn into a dumpster fire.
     
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  3. reptile logic

    reptile logic An imposter among aliens.

    Sarcasm noted. Of course, any serious discussion can result in conflict. Anything to add?

    Edit: The last line of the opening statement was potentially inflammatory. Removed.
     
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2017
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  4. Jay98

    Jay98 The violent man-eater

    whereas i'm like the total opposite of that. the world has decided to try and put me down by no fault of my own and i'm too damn stubborn to let it lie and fight my way of this bag full of drowning cats. don't worry i'll rescue the cats too because i love a challenge. hell i'll even take down the guy who put in this sack. see if they like being rolled up in a carpet and thrown from the golden gate bridge.
     
  5. Butt_Ghost

    Butt_Ghost Caffeine-based lifeform.

    This is a logical trap. Anyone who responds to this and doesn't agree with you is going to be painted as "someone with a me-centric view", "emotional" and "taking it as a personal attack". The only way for this to not turn into a dumpster fire is for everyone to unequivocally agree with your worldview.
     
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  6. Jay98

    Jay98 The violent man-eater

    nope.

    see how i did it. it is possible.
     
  7. reptile logic

    reptile logic An imposter among aliens.

  8. reptile logic

    reptile logic An imposter among aliens.

    So Butt_Ghost, you have an opposing viewpoint? Please, go on.

    Edit: I want to read arguments that can discredit my claims. I would rather be enlightened than right.
     
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2017
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  9. Sarcastic Coffeecup

    Sarcastic Coffeecup Hand. Cannot. Erase.

    I completely agree with OP.
    People sometimes have a certain choice, and nowadays many actively choose to victimify themselves and get all offended about it
     
  10. Yakamaru

    Yakamaru Logically chaotic and twice as charming

    Victim narratives drive people into the victim complex/mentality. Learned helplessness is a thing, and I see that shit in a decent amount of people in the fandom.

    Stop treating yourself like a victim. Stop blaming others for your problems. Stop blaming others for your own shortcomings. Stop seeing problems where there are none. Because chances are, you're stuck in a circle of self-pity.
     
  11. Butt_Ghost

    Butt_Ghost Caffeine-based lifeform.

    That's all I wanted to say, really. I'm not going to engage in a bad-faith argument. You've made a thesis, and any armchair philosopher can do that, but you need to prove it.
     
  12. silveredgreen

    silveredgreen Determined Dragon

    Back in my day the general population had a backbone. Nowadays i will try to help people who reach out for emotional support but if they refuse to listen and keep playing the victim card i will stop and let them fall on their face with no remorse. Because that's what these people need, someone to let them fall and realize their own mistakes. This is why i don't sugarcoat things.
     
  13. reptile logic

    reptile logic An imposter among aliens.

    As thoroughly as you have proven that the statements I made are incorrect? Done. We are both lazy, aren't we?
     
  14. Yakamaru

    Yakamaru Logically chaotic and twice as charming

    ^ This.

    This generation has a lot of pussies and people with no backbone whatsoever. Just disagreeing with them and they run into their safe space with therapy dogs and hugging sessions. It's outright pathetic to watch.

    Once reality kicks down their door and drags them out of their little safe space kicking and screaming, I will simply sit back and watch all the salt and crying on social media.
     
  15. -..Legacy..-

    -..Legacy..- Sergal Mafia :P

    Of the grand amount of people registered here, Reptile is probably the least likely to bring that kind of mindview to the table. Seriously.
     
  16. silveredgreen

    silveredgreen Determined Dragon

    Agreed 100%, its pretty entertaining to watch people figuring out how the world works for the first time. Then again, its not so fun when you realize they literally cause riots on the streets as a result. Oh well, at least they get arrested for that shit.

    This is why i hate SJWs.
     
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  17. Butt_Ghost

    Butt_Ghost Caffeine-based lifeform.

    Particular issue I take with your theory is that it's taking a "Throwing the baby out with the bathwater" approach to explaining an issue. There are people with imagined victimhood, sure - but theres a suggestion here that no one, currently, is under pressure from man-made, social causes. Acknowledging that at all is going to be taken "as trying to be a victim". Your argument offers a perspective on a very specific problem, but muddies the ability to talk about others.
     
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  18. reptile logic

    reptile logic An imposter among aliens.

    Edit: To include all victims was, in my thinking, too broad a subject to discuss. That itself would only muddy the waters regarding this particular topic.

    You have opened the door. What other, related topics do you wish to bring up?
     
  19. Butt_Ghost

    Butt_Ghost Caffeine-based lifeform.

    That's all I wanted to do, prop open the door that you're closing.
     
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  20. Saiko

    Saiko GTWT Survivor

    I’m in a similar camp as Butt_Ghost to be honest. I agree with the OP in principle, but it’s a point that you have to be incredibly careful with. Sure, it’s obviously correct, just like the counter-points he alluded to regarding victim-blaming are obviously correct. But correctness isn’t necessarily useful, and in this case it’s way too easy to just spout it from your armchair when you dislike something without bothering to understand or solve any problems (or specifically so you don’t have to). Not to say the OP is an instance of that problem, because it isn’t; but I’ve seen a lot of people on this forum do that in the past; and I worry this will just be misconstrued as confirmation that they haven’t.
     
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  21. GarthTheWereWolf

    GarthTheWereWolf Captious Lycanthrope of Forum Legend

    I like what Eleanor Roosevelt had to say on this sort of thing:

    "No one can make you feel inferior without your consent."

    Shannon L. Alder also had a good one:

    "When you blame others, what you are really saying is what is inside of you can’t be fixed, so you have no control of your own happiness. Therefore, you have made the conscience choice to give focus and fuel to a bad situation that will take you nowhere and give you nothing, but ignorance and pain."

    ...

    "When you let go of control and commit yourself to happiness, it is so easy to offer compassion and forgiveness. This propels you from the past, into the present. People that are negative, spend so much time trying to control situations and blame others for their problems. Committing yourself to staying positive is a daily mantra that states, I have control over how I plan to react, feel, think and believe in the present. No one guides the tone of my life, except me!"
     
  22. Butt_Ghost

    Butt_Ghost Caffeine-based lifeform.

    Intentionally or not, you're arguing for hardening yourself to issues instead of responding to or confronting them in any way you don't see as valid. You've made no arguments or indications of whatever specific social issues you consider valid or not or precisely what you consider an invalid approach so there's nothing to argue with there, I don't know your position.
    Basically, everything you've said is vague and easy enough to have a big circle-jerk over but there's not much else to do with it. I don't have any intention of allowing myself to be victimized, but I feel inaction towards an issue and building up a fortress of justifications for that inaction is just as cowardly as, say, blaming everyone else for your problems.
     
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  23. reptile logic

    reptile logic An imposter among aliens.

    Your view is interesting. I vaguely remember someone claiming that this philosophical argument was weighed in the OPs (my) favor.
    "Baby with bathwater"? Not my intention. It took me a while to even see the point that you were making. If anything, I was trying to pull the baby from the bathwater in order to make its presence known. To continue with your metaphor, some babies have been know to cry, not for a problem, or a need, but because it gets them attention.

    What you are pushing for is that this argument be weighed in your favor instead .

    If the argument allows that all victims, actual and imagined, be included in this discussion; this will likely fill these pages with, "This happened to someone, and this happened to someone, therefore I am justified in thinking that this and this and this was done in order to victimize me (who has yet to be victimized by any entity)." Twisted logic; one may then put any spin on it that one wants to. Talk about muddying the waters.

    If I refuse to include all forms of victimization into this discussion, then I am being unfair to those who believe that my core statement, which intentionally left out those who have suffered at the hands/actions/ of others is flawed.

    It is a no-win situation for this humble person, yet the original argument stands as it is, as the exercise in philosophy that was intended. One can only prove the notion of a perpetual victim by the study and careful documentation of those so inclined. They are out there, again my assertion, but few of them would be willing to subject themselves to the required testing. They would again feel victimized or at least feel singled-out.

    Please feel free to pose your own argument on another thread. While including actual victims and those who choose to take on the role, explain in detail how the view posted above holds no merit. I will visit it.
     
  24. reptile logic

    reptile logic An imposter among aliens.

    When so inclined, a person can shape anything, be it words or even a tool, into a weapon. If that weapon is then used against someone, then that someone has been victimized. If anyone here believes that I have victimized someone by starting this thread, please explain to me how it was done. If anyone here is going to credit me, through my words, with encouraging someone to harm another in any way. One must rethink one's own motivations first. Not the intention of this discussion.
     
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  25. reptile logic

    reptile logic An imposter among aliens.

    You have read so much more into my original statement, and resulting statements, then I could have imagined. OK, demonize me for making such a simple, uncomplicated statement. You have apparently assumed that I am uncaring and that I do not take action to help others in need; that I am a part of the problem. Since I am not going to cite evidence of my kindly, and socially responsible, acts here on this forum. You win; I must be evil, or at least hard and unfeeling. If one takes your responses at your word; you must be a very kind and socially responsible person. Thank you for sticking up for those whom I have hurt. You win. What you have won is up to you. The rules of this perceived contest have been written primarily by you in any case.
     
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