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5/17 Site Attack

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Syfaro

purple fox thing
So does this widget work for anyone? All I see is a "loading tweet" placeholder, and I'm unable to just post a link because the forum will aggressively turn it into a [media] tag, no matter what.

Any chance you have an ad blocker installed? Those often break things.
 

---Storm---

Artist for hire
EDIT: Who are you replying to Storm on the first post this page? (Just curious)
To everyone whose reaction to the notion of involving the police was to go on about how the police can do nothing if the attacker is [insert theory about which part of the World outside the USA he is in].

It's like there was a bleeding man and someone said we should call the ambulance, and then some people started going on about how he cannot be saved if [insert theory about he having lethal injury].
 

Ryuu Girl

Less Friends, Less Bullshit.
If any artists still communicate with clients via FA: don’t do that I don’t feel very sorry for them. This has happened countless times.

This is exactly why I conduct all commissions through order forms and demand emails. Thought you lose one form of communication I still have other sites I'm available on as well as contact information. Artists can draw to their hearts content but it's so easy to have poor professionalism.
 

Fordoxia

Member
To everyone whose reaction to the notion of involving the police was to go on about how the police can do nothing if the attacker is [insert theory about which part of the World outside the USA he is in].

It's like there was a bleeding man and someone said we should call the ambulance, and then some people started going on about how he cannot be saved if [insert theory about he having lethal injury].

"This man is missing the lower half of his body, his spleen, and his left lung is several feet from his body... CALL THE AMBULANCE!"

Joking aside, apples and oranges.
 

Ryuu Girl

Less Friends, Less Bullshit.
makes me glad I don't use notes for commission info, and an outside form maker to get all that. at least this way i can still work on current coms even if i can't get any new ones (or far less than i otherwise would), and have alternate contact info for commissioners, until the site is back up. I hope you're able to fix it soon! good luck.

This right here, if you know how to run a business thorough 3rd party sites then if one goes down it honestly shouldn't be the big of an issue.
 

---Storm---

Artist for hire
I will refrain from posting on the forums from now on don't worry.
No need for this. You are making drama now.

Anyway my point was, the admins ARE doing their job and instead of being ungrateful we should just appreciate them working on it.
We were not complaining about them working on it. We were complaining about them not doing their job properly in the past by:
- Not auditing the code for exploits in the past instead of only now when an attack already happened.
- Not having proper backup system in place. 6 days with no backups is unacceptable for a site like FA.
- Duct taping an ancient and bad code instead of finally rewriting, something they should have done years ago.
 

Ryu Deacon

Director of Furry Statistics
"And you're gonna die from not being able to reach your audience for a few days?
Good finance plan you got there."
Nope. But it will harm income, the longer the more likely and potentially higher.

And it was mostly about the original suggestions anyway, which was due to Furaffinity being down a few days artists should have gone to other sites like Weasyl. Which have like... 2% the userbase you reach with FA at most. If one would listen to that, yes, they will surely loose their livelihood if furry art was it.
And then those people even proudly stated that was a sound business plan, and sticking to Furaffinity was "dumb" since that's where the money is.

EDIT: Appears the post I quoted is gone now. But yeah, to re-itterate, the point for artists is FA is the biggest source of clientele, and will get exposure your own website or others will not receive. Alternatives aplenty, but all of them result in a severe decrease in income due to much lower reach. That wont change no matter how often people try to co-erce artists to leave FA, or come in here claiming artists relying on FA to make a living are "dumb" and they need to look elsewhere. Going elsewhere isn't going to make you a living, it's going to take it away from you. And for what, a few days downtime?
It only harms income because you are in one place which is why we are having all this whining and why FA was attacked in the first place (again this is not about hate, this is about the ease of hurting many financialy, and this community makes that easy), any professional freelance artist has the common sense of setting up multiple avenues of commissioners reaching them and vice versa, be it social network, galleries or personal websites, its a mistake depending on one community to make a living.

And No one was suggesting to lieve FA, we are suggesting to branch out (might i add not just to known furry sites), they are 2 diferent things. NO one was stating you should go to weasyl but the people calling it trash in this whole thread , maby you should stop producing your own drama.
 

AsheSkyler

Feathered Jester
At least that Tweet looked positive. Maybe it'll be back within a day or two then.

In the mean time, a wee break would be nice. Yes, yes. Well, from drawing. I've been in the middle of site maintenance at my own place, and what better time to go do some more of that than in the middle of a hack-attack? :p
 

Hassat Hunter

New Member
This right here, if you know how to run a business thorough 3rd party sites then if one goes down it honestly shouldn't be the big of an issue.
The problem (as stated often before) isn't keeping in touch with existing clients, it's making new clients.
FA is good for that. Your 3rd partysite is good (great) for organising, but it won't do your PR for you the way FurAffinity does. That was the whole point of the argument.

Basically there are 2 "stages" to art.

For the first stage (let's call it "1"), you need a new client. For people to order your art you need exposure. A website is good, a mail is good, but for most furry artists their FA page is the biggest part of their exposure and where most of their orders come from, be it people bidding on a YCH, claiming a slot for commissions being promoted in your journal, looking at your 3-rd partysite coming from your FA page. This is the actual stage where you get money from people. Arguable very important. FA really helps with this.

Then we have stage 2, which is actually working your art. You've got the dough, and now you need to release a product. At this stage most artists do NOT use FA. Their art-programs don't use FA, communication usually goes over other means or if it goes over notes there are alternatives (after all a paypal payment does also provide you with a mailadress). Important information like a refsheet is saved on the artists harddrive or stored on said 3-rd party site with the purchase.

Now what happens in this thread is artists like Bourbon. stating FA is vital for their income due to stage 1. And yes, they are right. Then we've got people coming in and saying artists are stupid to rely on FA going down and give alternatives for stage 2. The stage artists don't use FA in the first place. A very big exchange happened where Mr. Fox gave all good alternatives for stage 2, and then the artists gave reasons not to leave as per stage 1. And there's still a lot of people talking besides each other in this thread about thse 2 very specific different states, and offering artists all kinds of sollutions for stage 2. But really, THEY DON'T NEED ALTERNATIVES FOR STAGE 2. They can use them for stage 1, but frankly, there is no such alternative available to FA for furry artists. And only stage 1 is affecting their income at all even. Stage 2 delay would just give the commissionairs at worst a later date to receive their art (albeit unlikely since aforementioned reasons).

It seems people are in a pertipual state here that artists just make art, nothing else. And then completely forget they also need to SELL that art. So when artists come and do say this may affect their income, they completely gloss over stage 1, like it doesn't exist, and offer resolutions to stage 2 so they 'wont loose money'... completely oblivious that infact what they offer is not what the artists is talking about *at all*.
Sure, moving everything over to your own website will solve stage 2 if FA is down, but good luck having your website get any kind of attention FA is getting to not get into issues for stage 1.
 

Rabbi-Tom

New Member
From what appears to me (on Steam) is that most furry-haters are... anime-fans. Which seems mind-dumbingly crazy if you think about it. My own theory is that they try to "blacken" the furry community to make themselves feel better about being insecure about their own fandom. Can't think of any other reason.

Because countries have contact and their own police forces? You just formally fill in a request for arrest, then if they agree upon (which is easier if it's in another Western country of course) they arrest the person and send him/her over to the country that requested their transference. It's more common than you think.



Thats what happened at NakamaCon in Madison, a Furry/Anime convention 5 years ago. The furries outnumbered the Anime fans 2-1 and the Anime fans DEMANDED that the con chair boot the furries out of THEIR Conventon cause Furries are just wrong! The Con Chair delt with the anime fan whining as much as he could, even said the furries were far more polite and didn't constantly bitch, plus actually spent money at ALL the dealers, even the Anime ones.
But no, the Anime fans badgered the con staff and bitched more to where the con chair said he's had it with running it and dropped out for the next year. The New con chair, who was also the backer financially never attended any of the meetings, staff gatherings to plan the con and 6 weeks before NakamaCon 2, announced he was backing out and withdrew his financial support because nobody cared about him.

We had 472 attendees at that cons debut...wonder where it would have gone had the anime fans and the one con chair didn't wimp out.
 

kisuka

New Member
FA fixed it 5 May. Alternative site (and apparently "much better than FA") Weasyl did... 3 May. So just a 2 day difference, and still the month inbetween people find so bad.
CVE-2016-3714 had been known since mid/late april. They should have at least disabled all uploads temporarily until the patch came out. When the patch came out on May 3rd they then took 2 days to patch it. Even two days is too long when it comes to a critical security issue. Especially when this particular exploit had so much press among blogs and hacker news sites.

This is something they should have been on top of way earlier since they know they use ImageMagick. However it feels like they didn't even know the exploit existed until they read a news article about it after the patch had already been released 2 days prior.

Someone wasn't keeping up to date with the exploit reports on the software installed on their server. Plain and simple.
 

Ryuu Girl

Less Friends, Less Bullshit.
The problem (as stated often before) isn't keeping in touch with existing clients, it's making new clients.
FA is good for that. Your 3rd partysite is good (great) for organising, but it won't do your PR for you the way FurAffinity does. That was the whole point of the argument.

Basically there are 2 "stages" to art.

For the first stage (let's call it "1"), you need a new client. For people to order your art you need exposure. A website is good, a mail is good, but for most furry artists their FA page is the biggest part of their exposure and where most of their orders come from, be it people bidding on a YCH, claiming a slot for commissions being promoted in your journal, looking at your 3-rd partysite coming from your FA page. This is the actual stage where you get money from people. Arguable very important. FA really helps with this.

Then we have stage 2, which is actually working your art. You've got the dough, and now you need to release a product. At this stage most artists do NOT use FA. Their art-programs don't use FA, communication usually goes over other means or if it goes over notes there are alternatives (after all a paypal payment does also provide you with a mailadress). Important information like a refsheet is saved on the artists harddrive or stored on said 3-rd party site with the purchase.

Now what happens in this thread is artists like Bourbon. stating FA is vital for their income due to stage 1. And yes, they are right. Then we've got people coming in and saying artists are stupid to rely on FA going down and give alternatives for stage 2. The stage artists don't use FA in the first place. A very big exchange happened where Mr. Fox gave all good alternatives for stage 2, and then the artists gave reasons not to leave as per stage 1. And there's still a lot of people talking besides each other in this thread about thse 2 very specific different states, and offering artists all kinds of sollutions for stage 2. But really, THEY DON'T NEED ALTERNATIVES FOR STAGE 2. They can use them for stage 1, but frankly, there is no such alternative available to FA for furry artists. And only stage 1 is affecting their income at all even. Stage 2 delay would just give the commissionairs at worst a later date to receive their art (albeit unlikely since aforementioned reasons).

It seems people are in a pertipual state here that artists just make art, nothing else. And then completely forget they also need to SELL that art. So when artists come and do say this may affect their income, they completely gloss over stage 1, like it doesn't exist, and offer resolutions to stage 2 so they 'wont loose money'... completely oblivious that infact what they offer is not what the artists is talking about *at all*.
Sure, moving everything over to your own website will solve stage 2 if FA is down, but good luck having your website get any kind of attention FA is getting to not get into issues for stage 1.


I should have stated if you collected emails and use those conducting commissions still shouldn't be a problem.
 

Winter.Maelstrom

'cause i'm happy!
I would like to step in here and say that I really am grateful that the admins are doing what they can to fix this. I feel they really are trying, considering all circumstances of the site.

I also agree with some of the grievances that have been brought up.
- More frequent backups would be nice.
- Re-written source code would be beneficial.

Thank you to those who are trying to get FurAffinity back up and running. I miss it already!
 

noveltybest

Member
From what appears to me (on Steam) is that most furry-haters are... anime-fans. Which seems mind-dumbingly crazy if you think about it. My own theory is that they try to "blacken" the furry community to make themselves feel better about being insecure about their own fandom. Can't think of any other reason.

Because countries have contact and their own police forces? You just formally fill in a request for arrest, then if they agree upon (which is easier if it's in another Western country of course) they arrest the person and send him/her over to the country that requested their transference. It's more common than you think.



Thats what happened at NakamaCon in Madison, a Furry/Anime convention 5 years ago. The furries outnumbered the Anime fans 2-1 and the Anime fans DEMANDED that the con chair boot the furries out of THEIR Conventon cause Furries are just wrong! The Con Chair delt with the anime fan whining as much as he could, even said the furries were far more polite and didn't constantly bitch, plus actually spent money at ALL the dealers, even the Anime ones.
But no, the Anime fans badgered the con staff and bitched more to where the con chair said he's had it with running it and dropped out for the next year. The New con chair, who was also the backer financially never attended any of the meetings, staff gatherings to plan the con and 6 weeks before NakamaCon 2, announced he was backing out and withdrew his financial support because nobody cared about him.

We had 472 attendees at that cons debut...wonder where it would have gone had the anime fans and the one con chair didn't wimp out.

seems like a 100 year anime vs furry(anthro) war who ever the hacker is he knows what hes getting and its in 2 words.

internet penalty!

that's all but I create both anime and furry content so less likely I would be responsible for this.
 

Ryu Deacon

Director of Furry Statistics
The problem (as stated often before) isn't keeping in touch with existing clients, it's making new clients.
FA is good for that. Your 3rd partysite is good (great) for organising, but it won't do your PR for you the way FurAffinity does. That was the whole point of the argument.

Basically there are 2 "stages" to art.

For the first stage (let's call it "1"), you need a new client. For people to order your art you need exposure. A website is good, a mail is good, but for most furry artists their FA page is the biggest part of their exposure and where most of their orders come from, be it people bidding on a YCH, claiming a slot for commissions being promoted in your journal, looking at your 3-rd partysite coming from your FA page. This is the actual stage where you get money from people. Arguable very important. FA really helps with this.

Then we have stage 2, which is actually working your art. You've got the dough, and now you need to release a product. At this stage most artists do NOT use FA. Their art-programs don't use FA, communication usually goes over other means or if it goes over notes there are alternatives (after all a paypal payment does also provide you with a mailadress). Important information like a refsheet is saved on the artists harddrive or stored on said 3-rd party site with the purchase.

Now what happens in this thread is artists like Bourbon. stating FA is vital for their income due to stage 1. And yes, they are right. Then we've got people coming in and saying artists are stupid to rely on FA going down and give alternatives for stage 2. The stage artists don't use FA in the first place. A very big exchange happened where Mr. Fox gave all good alternatives for stage 2, and then the artists gave reasons not to leave as per stage 1. And there's still a lot of people talking besides each other in this thread about thse 2 very specific different states, and offering artists all kinds of sollutions for stage 2. But really, THEY DON'T NEED ALTERNATIVES FOR STAGE 2. They can use them for stage 1, but frankly, there is no such alternative available to FA for furry artists. And only stage 1 is affecting their income at all even. Stage 2 delay would just give the commissionairs at worst a later date to receive their art (albeit unlikely since aforementioned reasons).

It seems people are in a pertipual state here that artists just make art, nothing else. And then completely forget they also need to SELL that art. So when artists come and do say this may affect their income, they completely gloss over stage 1, like it doesn't exist, and offer resolutions to stage 2 so they 'wont loose money'... completely oblivious that infact what they offer is not what the artists is talking about *at all*.
Sure, moving everything over to your own website will solve stage 2 if FA is down, but good luck having your website get any kind of attention FA is getting to not get into issues for stage 1.
And this is why you you dont rely on just one community for your business/income Hassat, multible avenues for "1". This Rule applies as much to any Business as it does to artists and even nations
 

TaylorxxWolfie

ITS OVER 9000!!!!!!
Thanks for the update Dragoneer! Good to know that you're making good progress!
 

TaylorxxWolfie

ITS OVER 9000!!!!!!

TaylorxxWolfie

ITS OVER 9000!!!!!!

Hassat Hunter

New Member
And this is why you you dont rely on just one community for your business/income Hassat, multible avenues for "1". This Rule applies as much to any Business as it does to artists and even nations
I think Bourbon. way earlier already mentioned exactly why there are no real suitable alternatives to FA at this point. Yes, having a website as alternative is always good, but you can't really expect it to have much reach if any. You still need to reach them some other place to get them to go there in the first place. A ghosttown wont do that.
Also there are plenty of nations who literally rely on one thing to survive, be it oil or other natural resources and tourism. Take that away from them and they will tumble like a card-house.

Think of it like a company selling oil, then suddenly for a week cars do not work. Sure you can still sell a bit for say plastic and stuff, but it's peanuts compared to the actual big job; automobiles.

EDIT: FA not only allows you to sell, but also is a great promotional platform. Much of the same reasons why Steam is successful (even if I start hating it), and even if there are alternatives, asking any dev the sell-numbers are usually skewed over 85% in Steam's profit.
 
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