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A Rational Approach to Sexual Morals

Geek

Chico
Sex is inherently irrational. So, how do we know which behaviors should be acceptable and which behaviors should not? Since the dawn of civilization, laws regulating human sexual behavior have been created and vehemently enforced, only to be struck down a few years later. Traditionally, we relied on theological reasons to discourage certain sexual behaviors. For example, homosexuality was abhorred by the Victorians due to the strong Christian morals of the time. We, however, should strive to live in a more enlightened society. Therefore, I have constructed a logical framework of sexual morality based on reason and rational thinking. Just a note, this chart was created during the height of the pedophilia “explosion” on these forums that occured a few months ago. It was one of my arguments against removing the age of consent that never saw the light of day. I've reworked it so that it applies to a wide range of other sexual behaviours (ie. BDSM and homosexuality)...

mandyb5.jpg


If only those Victorians and those before them had this chart! Interestingly, it confirms most of the laws in our current society. Non consensual sex, sex with small animals, sex between an HIV infected person and an HIV negative person who is unaware of his partner's HIV status, sex using manipulation, and all forms of sex between adults and children (whether consensual or non consensual) are still immoral. An interesting exception is that the chart tells us that bestiality with an appropriately sized animal should be acceptable.

Furthermore, the validity of this chart is not limited to sex. It can be applied, relatively unchanged, to many other areas of life and it would be just as valid. Money and employment are just a few other examples.

So, what do you think? Has this chart changed your views on sexual morals? What improvements, if any, should be made? Even if you already adhered to a similar logical reasoning, perhaps it is comforting to know that our moral attitudes towards sex has a more rational basis than we previously thought.

Oh, and if you disagree with my analysis, what criteria do you personally use to separate sexual behaviours into the acceptable and unacceptable ones?

If you don't feel like answering questions, why don't you put some sexual behaviours into the top of the chart. Follow down the chart until you come to a stop and tell us where you end up. Here's mine...

BDSM: 1st=YES, 2nd=YES, 3rd=YES, 4th=YES, acceptable
Erotic asphyxiation: 1st=YES, 2nd=YES, 3rd=YES, 4th=YES, acceptable
Homosexuality: 1st=YES, 2nd=YES, 3rd=YES, 4th=YES, acceptable

Sex where one party has AIDS: 1st=YES, 2nd=YES, 3rd=NO, unacceptable
Sex with a chicken: 1st=YES, 2nd=YES, 3rd=NO, unacceptable
With a drunk person: 1st=YES, 2nd=YES, 3rd=YES, 4th=NO, unacceptable

Necrophilia: There is only one party (but that doesn't make it right).
Masturbation: Yet again, there is only one party.
Sex with a bike: There is only one party (and a bike).
Sex in a party: *confused
 

Scarborough

Cliched & Trite
I feel like I already thought this. But the chart is nifty.

Though the one problem you can come across is when somebody contests the age of consent. I'll think about more possible holes later.
 

Scarborough

Cliched & Trite
Actually, wait.

I looked at it again. Why is capability of consent the last thing on the flow chart? By the chart's reasoning...

Pedophilia.

Do both parties agree? Yes.
Are there any risks involved? (arguably) No. End; sexual act is okay.

Or sex w/ a drunk person.

Do both parties agree? Yes.
Are there any risks involved? (arguably) No. End; sexual act is okay.

"Risks involved" does seem a bit vague.
 

onewingedweasel

Blinding you with science.
I like this. a lot.
I think consent and understanding are easily the most important issues in sexual activity. I cant think of many acts that i would disagree with if both parties consented and were aware of the risks making a sober decision.

The age of consent thing is such a debatable topic to me. It is hard to measure maturity however we do know that there are ages where the brain is still developing. Personally i think its a case by case basis but we need consent laws still to protect minors from risks they may not have the capacity to understand.

edit* i agree with the above post about consent.. it should take more precedence.
 

Squeak

Mouse
Actually, wait.

I looked at it again. Why is capability of consent the last thing on the flow chart? By the chart's reasoning...

Pedophilia.

Do both parties agree? Yes.
Are there any risks involved? (arguably) No. End; sexual act is okay.

Or sex w/ a drunk person.

Do both parties agree? Yes.
Are there any risks involved? (arguably) No. End; sexual act is okay.

"Risks involved" does seem a bit vague.

Next step: Are both parties decission making skills developed enough to decide whether or not to proceed places pedohila and drunken sex in the NO catagory.

Chart is great and it nicely summerises my own views on sexual morality.

Edit: Wait, I see what you mean. Able to consent needs to go second.
 
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Scarborough

Cliched & Trite
Next step: Are both parties decission making skills developed enough to decide whether or not to proceed places pedohila and drunken sex in the NO catagory.

No, you don't go to the next step if the answer to 2 is "no." That's how it reads. The check mark at the end signifies an end of the string.
 

Unsilenced

Mentlegen
People being aware of the risks doesn't make it a good idea. One could argue that two people who are engaging in acts of sex are incapable of properly assessing risk.
 

Azure

100% organic vegan hubbas
Why isn't sex with a bike acceptable? I was always a bit of a pedalphile...
 

Ratte

Member
Consent is a pretty cool guy, eh makes sex enjoyable for both parties and doesn't afraid of rape charges.
 

Leostale

Random Melodic Music Maker
Just add sum bacon lube on it and everything will be fine and Taste Like BACON!! :D
 

Shay Feral

Child of Babylon
long post!

Simple enough for me to understand, as for age of consent though I don't believe it should be lifted, especially in my area. The general attitude of a teenager in my neck of the woods is of an immature, irrational and thoughtless nature. Keeping it at 18 is a good idea, but this doesn't mean that there isn't some 15 - 16 year old who is mature enough to make such a decision. If anyone is going to argue age of consent it has to be done on a case by case basis for any accurate results. Lowering the age of consent would probably just end up with a rise in early teen pregnancies and STD's.

When I was in Jr. High (11 - 13 years old average age) there were maybe 3 - 5 girls who ended up getting pregnant. But when the next generation took into Jr. High there was about 10 - 15 girls who got pregnant.

I personally do not trust teenagers to make good judgment calls when it comes to sex. To be totally honest, I don't trust teenagers to make good judgment calls for about damn near anything...
 
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Geek

Chico
Actually, wait.

I looked at it again. Why is capability of consent the last thing on the flow chart? By the chart's reasoning...

Pedophilia.

Do both parties agree? Yes.
Are there any risks involved? (arguably) No. End; sexual act is okay.

Or sex w/ a drunk person.

Do both parties agree? Yes.
Are there any risks involved? (arguably) No. End; sexual act is okay.

"Risks involved" does seem a bit vague.

This is a deeply flawed analysis. There are clear and obvious risks involved in pedophilia, from physical ones (disease, pregnancy, injury), to emotional ones (long-term psychological problems, difficulty adjusting to mature relationships, difficulty adjusting to social norms). The answer to this isn't "No". It is clearly "Yes", which lead to following branch-points that classify the action as immoral.

The chart works, when we use it correctly.
 
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Duality Jack

Feeling Loki with it.
Easy approch:

Do not rape.
Don't fuck children.
Don't pretend to fuck children.
Don't Fuck animals,
Don't fuck dead things.

Besides that Who the fuck cares?
 

Runefox

Kitsune of the PC Master Race
Sex is inherently irrational.
Uh? Sex is natural. How is it irrational?

Sex with a chicken: 1st=YES, 2nd=YES, 3rd=NO, unacceptable
o_O; Chickens can agree to sex? ... I guess. I mean, I wouldn't know whether "BAWK!" is yes or no, but if you do, go right ahead.

Sex in a party
Orgy.

Anyway, yeah, the chart works I guess, but only if you know how to use it. It's common sense, really, but not many people seem to have it (uncommon sense?).
 

Duality Jack

Feeling Loki with it.
Aww but that's no fun at all :(
Trust me threre are allot of kinky women/men that are willing to do unthinkably adventurous things that will not make you a sex offender.
 

Shay Feral

Child of Babylon
Uh? Sex is natural. How is it irrational?

Good question, society views sex as a primal urge and a crude act. Society likes to put boundaries with it, if you do it too much your a whore, if you don't do it your a prude (unless religiously abstinent). Basically if you have sex outside of the purpose of reproduction, in societies eyes you are a bad person... Society is greedy, if it doesn't benefit it in some manner it wants nothing to do with it.

Which is one of the many reasons why homosexuality is still being looked down upon despite our "progress" in evolution.
 

Ratte

Member
Silly furries, we humans are supposed to be above sex. Go back to your caves, you lusty neanderthals. :V
 

HoneyPup

Potos flavus
Looks rational enough. And a good rule for all interactions, sexual or non.

o_O; Chickens can agree to sex? ... I guess. I mean, I wouldn't know whether "BAWK!" is yes or no, but if you do, go right ahead.
It doesn't matter whether the chicken agrees or not. It's dangerous (most likely fatal) to the chicken, and that's why it shouldn't be done.
 

Geek

Chico
Actually, wait.

I looked at it again. Why is capability of consent the last thing on the flow chart? By the chart's reasoning...

Pedophilia.

Do both parties agree? Yes.
Are there any risks involved? (arguably) No. End; sexual act is okay.
Surely there is always a risk when entering into a sexual relationship that you may at least be emotionally hurt by it. *It's just that many societies choose to protect minors but, for understandable reasons, choose not protect majors, even emotionally-immature or emotionally-vulnerable majors, save possibly in certain circumstances. *Some professional bodies, for example professional bodies of doctors, psychologists and lawyers, may have rules discouraging sexual relationships with patients or clients. *

In South Africa, our common law - which comes from old Dutch law - provides for a delict (i.e. a tort) - known as "seduction" - which is a civil action for the "extra-marital defloration of a girl with her consent". *This means that 1) the girl had to be a virgin (the onus was held to be upon the man to prove that an unmarried girl was not a virgin) and that 2) the man must have overcome the girl's opposition to his sexual advances. *The girl loses her right to claim if she continues with her intimate relationship with the man after her seduction. *In 1969 a court raised the issue of whether virginity should still be a requirement and whether the delict should be extended to cases where, say, a widow or a divorcee is taken advantage of and is emotionally hurt by the experience. After all, we have other delicts making it unlawful to intentionally cause a person emotional trauma e.g. for insults etc. As far as I know, the last time there was a reported case in which the delict of seduction was raised before a court was in 1989. * Some legal writers have said that there is no justification for this delict in modern law. Certainly, it is hard to reconcile it with the present prohibition under the South African Constitution against unfair discrimination on the basis of sex, which suggests that the delict should be reformed or scrapped.*

To be honest, as far as the legal age of consent is concerned with regard to the criminal offense of statutory rape, for various reasons I would tend to support an age of consent that is lower than 16 years, which is the age of consent in many English-speaking countries (but many non-English-speaking countries have a lower age of consent), subject to there being a higher age of consent in certain circumstances eg in a relationship involving a minor and a guardian.

Or sex w/ a drunk person.

Do both parties agree? Yes.
Are there any risks involved? (arguably) No. End; sexual act is okay.

"Risks involved" does seem a bit vague.

I think that the law shouldn't intervene unless a party is drunk enough to be unconscious or barely conscious - in which case the issue of lack of consent arises.
 
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