a request to rethink. From the Rules

[FenrisNordwind]

Dear friends, sincetheinnovations in the rules of our beloved website 2.1.2.2 of 04.16.20, 5.01.20, artists,have begun to undergo serious inconvenience in the dissemination of their art. there are more and more people on thesite. It’sbecoming more and more difficult to remain in the audience’s visibility. while it was possible to lay out an unlimitednumber of reminders every 4 hours, everyone had the opportunity to be in a prominent place for buyers. Now everyone doesn’t have this opportunity, except for those who are ready to brazenly violate the rules of the community. if your goal was to protect at least partially people from reminders, then this problem remained to the same extent. most of the tape also consists of reminders, only now a person has only a couple of minutes in 8 hours to advertise himself and his sales. at best, it brings a couple of subscribers per day and one order per week if you're lucky.

for beginners, the possibility of development is generally blocked. in fact, reminder sare prohibited. The advertising that the site offers us has no effectiveness. I have repeatedly watched artists who uset his service and it was sad to watch their low activity. why? Most usershave an adblock and the site it selfprovides a subscription option that removes ads and costs only $ 5. There is absolutely no efficiency in this for Artis.


Dear opponents of reminders, I understand that you are bored of reminders, especially if you don’t want to buy something now and you are interested in just watching the finished works, but let's figure out where the art that you like appears in the tape. 90% of creativity is ready-made sales, commissions and collages. drawings have become earnings for many people


"Browse" is scrap yard, flipping through it, you can find a lot of content annoying you, but the site provides categories and a separate section for ychs. by choosing the category you need, you can remove the reminders from the tape and everything else that does not fit the category you select. it would be worthwhile to improve the categories, rather than destroy what allows new content to appear. For free, artists will not paint. Ychs, adopts, commissions can no longer be earning for people who have ther main job here. It’s now impossible to sellauctions at all, by banning reminders you deprive yourself of many goodartists and those who could become them.


I ask the administration to cancel the changes in the rules regarding reminders and sales 2.1.2.2 from 04.16.20, 01/05/2З or for a Change toa better idear then this i ask for. I'm not here to show admins that they are the bad guys or anything. I ask to find a solution for that we do not lose what we love.


Please, leave comments and suggestions if youareselling ychs and have suffered from innovations, share yourstory.

 

[art_wolf]

I am not a great artist and it is difficult for me to find a buyer for ychs, after the new rules it became impossible. for me it was the only site where you can sell something. I don’t see any more sense to stay here.

 

[FenrisNordwind]

I am not a great artist and it is difficult for me to find a buyer for ychs, after the new rules it became impossible. for me it was the only site where you can sell something. I don’t see any more sense to stay here.

What a pity do you have a plan?

 

[AnnVee]

My text includes 2 different art accs and how it works for them:
Me (AnnVee) - 2500 watchers+
So.. it becomes really hard to get watchers, favs, attentions, bids.
I'm grateful to my current watchers and customers for the activity and stuff they do, in other cases I would left. And I'm pretty lucky to be on the website for 3-4 years, when we haven't this rules as "1 reminder every 8 hours", so I had the possibility to have at least 2500 watchers. But, as all artists we all grow our skill and want to grow our watchers.

I see, that I have less attention, less buyers of the YCHs (especially clones, that are going good mostly). Less favs, less watchers per week. Lucky to get around 2 watchers per week..but I got 7-8 last times.
I can't remind about myself and my sales, and it's very important to me to remind about it, because no sales=no arts, no me. This is a work+hobby, that makes it perfect..
but looking now how step by step I lose it all - I will remain with not enough money, to be able to support a whole family, to pay for medical treatment, for study..for my future goals that should change my life.
Me, and other artists, that have less than 10k watchers will disappear. Is this good? No.. we disappear with our skill, ideas, with opportunity to continue creating and will need to find "a real work" as said the last DDoS Attacker
(if you remind).
And I'm not sure that with a real work I will be able to support myself if we forget about the whole family.

Advertising? Yeah, I bought it. 2 times for me, 2 times for my friend. And what I can say?
1 month of a big banner in 2018 gives me 300 watchers
1 month of a big banner now gives 80-100 watchers. The difference between prices is 40$, but between watchers is 200.
And don't forget about ad blockers...so, who see our arts in advertising? We, other artists, and maybe around 30% of the online users? If they, of course, pay attention to it or didn't update the page when saw the adv.
Good stuff, but useless sometimes.
And.. how can I order a advertising, if I don't get money from YCHs that are buying because of the reminders, that are doing more often that once a 8 hours..

What do we have:
- less sales,activity,favs,attention = no money, no sense to remain if no one sees us.

A friend (Ajeny) - 500-600 watchers
So, the real thing is that my sales practically stops.
I have an advertising at the moment, from 22 April till 11 May I got only 47 watchers (including what came before 1st May after reminders). So from adv is ~20-30 watcher.. okay, it is till 1st June, will see for what I paid 60$.
Happy, that I can make a reminder of 2 YCHs and more in the same post ( AnnVee asked the admins about this )..but only 3 posts...OMG, a big chance to left my work for 1-2 years. And my situation is not better that AnnVee's.
Lucky to get at least 2-5 watchers per week and I guess they are from the advertising this weeks.
If my sales were around 250$ per month..now it can be 100$ per month and ..how should I live?
Feeling sad about it..

Conclusion from both of us: Please, rewatch the rules..it's a really big chance to remain without a lot of artists.
We saw that a lot of new artists disappear when the reminders were with 4 hours cause no one saw them, but know is just double no attention to them, no new artists here.. or not for a long time.. or violation of the rules, cause they are not always reading them...

 

[Deleted member 115426]

What are these rules if you don't mind me asking? By the sound of it this sounds preeeeeeeeeeetty bad.

 

[FenrisNordwind]

What are these rules if you don't mind me asking? By the sound of it this sounds preeeeeeeeeeetty bad.

Acceptable Upload Policy -- Fur Affinity [dot] net and i mean this one

2.1 Reminders, Advertisements, and Promotions
Users may post reminder submissions to accounts they own with the following requirements: The rating must match the highest rated content being promoted. Users may post up to 3 reminder submissions every 8 hours. Only one reminder per original sale is permitted in this time frame.

Reminders, advertisements, and promotions must still comply with all other policies, such as Section 2.9 - Duplicate Content, where the image in the reminder cannot be identical to another image on your account.

Reposting submissions in an attempt to circumvent these limitations is not permitted. Attempts to bypass this policy or its limitations is prohibited.


2.9 Duplicate Content
Duplicate content is prohibited.

 

[Deleted member 115426]

Acceptable Upload Policy -- Fur Affinity [dot] net and i mean this one

2.1 Reminders, Advertisements, and Promotions
Users may post reminder submissions to accounts they own with the following requirements: The rating must match the highest rated content being promoted. Users may post up to 3 reminder submissions every 8 hours. Only one reminder per original sale is permitted in this time frame.

Reminders, advertisements, and promotions must still comply with all other policies, such as Section 2.9 - Duplicate Content, where the image in the reminder cannot be identical to another image on your account.

Reposting submissions in an attempt to circumvent these limitations is not permitted. Attempts to bypass this policy or its limitations is prohibited.


2.9 Duplicate Content
Duplicate content is prohibited.

WOW this sucks. How the hell are you supposed to advertise?

 

[Lutro]

WOW this sucks. How the hell are you supposed to advertise?

By purchasing advertising space.

EDIT: Or posting three times every 8 hours.

Galleries and searches are not intended to be a constant flood of YCH/reminder spam, which is what's being culled via the updated rules. There are many venues for getting the word out other than uploading submissions that are just YCH/Reminders, outside the site and within.

But also, how are most in a position where being able to post 3 such reminders every 8 hours is insufficient?

 

[Deleted member 115426]

By purchasing advertising space.

Galleries and searches are not intended to be a constant flood of YCH/reminder spam, which is what's being culled via the updated rules. There are many venues for getting the word out other than uploading submissions that are just YCH/Reminders, outside the site and within.

Not many people have the money to do that. And this is an art site for artists. This is just gonna kill it and make everyone move to another platform

 

[AnnVee]

By purchasing advertising space.

Galleries and searches are not intended to be a constant flood of YCH/reminder spam, which is what's being culled via the updated rules. There are many venues for getting the word out other than uploading submissions that are just YCH/Reminders, outside the site and within.

But also, how are most in a position where being able to post 3 such reminders every 8 hours is insufficient?

Well... how should I post an art if no one buys the YCH?
We create YCH = someone who like it buy it = get an art they want = we post arts

YCH = reminders to become an art = a full colored artwork
No YCHs = no sales = no arts.
Not all are like really big artists (30-40k watchers) to draw all we want and create 1 YCH for 1000$+
We try to survive..
And this is YCHs .
Also as high are prices - as less YCHs or reminders
Or as fast are they bought as less reminders!
But this all is skill (that is growing by drawing) and watchers, watchers, watchers...

 

[FenrisNordwind]

Not many people have the money to do that. And this is an art site for artists. This is just gonna kill it and make everyone move to another platform

As I said Adblocker and the possibility to pay something that no advertisement is shown. Therefore a filter would be better where each side has what it wants.

 

[Deleted member 115426]

As I said Adblocker and the possibility to pay something that no advertisement is shown. Therefore a filter would be better where each side has what it wants.

That sounds like a good compromise

 

[FenrisNordwind]

That sounds like a good compromise

What I see is a catch then programming work and sever capacity .. but if nothing is done now it will be a dark time.

 

[Shark Hunter]

these rules destroy the meaning of the site and turn it into a gallery like devianart. It seems to me that soon artists will be forced to draw for points or completely free.I noticed that many artists made discounts on their art, and some even painted free ych in the hope of promotion. I don’t understand which side the administration is on if even ordinary users suffer as a result, because reminders are often placed on the view tab. and this suggests that the rules are absurd, and people are forced to break them in order to at least sell something. Adopt and auctions is impossible to sell, you must develop your creativity on other sites.

 

[Shark Hunter]

By purchasing advertising space.

Galleries and searches are not intended to be a constant flood of YCH/reminder spam, which is what's being culled via the updated rules. There are many venues for getting the word out other than uploading submissions that are just YCH/Reminders, outside the site and within.

But also, how are most in a position where being able to post 3 such reminders every 8 hours is insufficient?

The site’s audience is concentrated in the viewing section, so art promotion is only possible there. there is no alternative, because advertising on the site is useless, and if there is no opportunity to advertise, then there will be no new art. What promotion opportunities are you talking about? Have you tried to promote your creativity?

 

[Frank Gulotta]

Forget constant reminders, they're not effective either. They're the equivalent of throwing flyers at a crowd. Yes, a bunch of people might look at the flyers, a few of them will not be annoyed, and even fewer will be interested.
Be smart. Build a network instead. That's smart advertisement. I see terrific artists who can't get traffic because they barely interact with anyone else.
I'm a scrub and I can't provide enough YCH slots, because I'm a talkative scrub who knows how to market to a specific niche at a time.

 

[AnnVee]

Forget constant reminders, they're not effective either. They're the equivalent of throwing flyers at a crowd. Yes, a bunch of people might look at the flyers, a few of them will not be annoyed, and even fewer will be interested.
Be smart. Build a network instead. That's smart advertisement. I see terrific artists who can't get traffic because they barely interact with anyone else.
I'm a scrub and I can't provide enough YCH slots, because I'm a talkative scrub who knows how to market to a specific niche at a time.

1. A big part of watchers and potential commissioners are from reminders that are appearing more often than a new YCH or an art.
2. You mean we should have collabs with each other?
3. Maybe you can advise all how to recommend ourselves, cause things like "Free Art Raffles", a 50% discount and other WILL NOT help me without a reminder, and additional will make to me moooreee art debts and will help my reason for being on the website to disappear.
Or maybe writing on YCH "3000$" to get attention and a really bad reputation?
Love to say " you criticize an idea? offer a way to resolve it "
Saying "be smart, find smth else" doesn't really help ...you know

 

[Shark Hunter]

Forget constant reminders, they're not effective either. They're the equivalent of throwing flyers at a crowd. Yes, a bunch of people might look at the flyers, a few of them will not be annoyed, and even fewer will be interested.
Be smart. Build a network instead. That's smart advertisement. I see terrific artists who can't get traffic because they barely interact with anyone else.
I'm a scrub and I can't provide enough YCH slots, because I'm a talkative scrub who knows how to market to a specific niche at a time.

where did you get the idea that reminders are not profitable? it is more profitable than advertising and collaborations combined. not every artist can spend time communicating and persuading to buy ych from him....Your way to take place is if you are a major artist and other major artists are ready to cooperate with you, but even in this case it will not be an alternative to reminders, but only a good addition, please do not mislead people.

you are using a site with content that’s free for you, but the less opportunities there are to create content for this site, the worse quality you will get. I get the impression that you do not understand sales and speak on a topic that you do not know.

 

[Frank Gulotta]

where did you get the idea that reminders are not profitable? it is more profitable than advertising and collaborations combined. not every artist can spend time communicating and persuading to buy ych from him....Your way to take place is if you are a major artist and other major artists are ready to cooperate with you, but even in this case it will not be an alternative to reminders, but only a good addition, please do not mislead people.

Haha, maybe I shouldn't have said "not profitable", I guess it is, if you say so, but it's "effective" in the same way as spam advertisement is. It annoys most people.
As for time, everything takes time. If you have time to spam a website with reminders, you also have time to build an audience, which may take more effort, but is much more reliable : rather than maybe hitting a few potentially interested people at random, it snowballs potential customers, and more loyal at that. For just some extra time and effort, you can build something that once it's built, will work for you on its own, as opposed to spamming which you'll have to constantly do.

 

[Frank Gulotta]

1. A big part of watchers and potential commissioners are from reminders that are appearing more often than a new YCH or an art.

huh, again I guess people's experience may vary. But as I said, i don't have trouble with traffic, and I've never posted any reminder, so obviously that's achievable too.

2. You mean we should have collabs with each other?

Not necessarily, just befriending people with similar interests can work too.

 

[Deleted member 115426]

Haha, maybe I shouldn't have said "not profitable", I guess it is, if you say so, but it's "effective" in the same way as spam advertisement is. It annoys most people.
As for time, everything takes time. If you have time to spam a website with reminders, you also have time to build an audience, which may take more effort, but is much more reliable : rather than maybe hitting a few potentially interested people at random, it snowballs potential customers, and more loyal at that. For just some extra time and effort, you can build something that once it's built, will work for you on its own, as opposed to spamming which you'll have to constantly do.

I bet you think advertisements in general are just spam. "IS THAT A BILLBOARD?! REEEE"

 

[Frank Gulotta]

I bet you think advertisements in general are just spam. "IS THAT A BILLBOARD?! REEEE"

Wanna fite me over that??

 

[AnnVee]

Only because of the reminders I got a really loyal customer, so you're not completely right.
Also about the collaborations - had some collabs and what do we have:
1. No new watchers
2. No sense to do it with a low skilled or person with less watchers - you get practically nothing, only if he gets better prices because of you
3. A more skilled and popular artist can be too busy or not interested at all.

And I'm not a social person, always like to do all alone, cause after this I have to reply for the quality without problems, I like to work only with the customer.

Collabs are okay for me only with friend or any friend of mine. I don't like to bother others with this. And I always should be sure that the quality will be as high as possible from both artists, that again is possible only if we are known by each other somehow.

Reminders ALWAYS helped me to get any customer - very loyal, less loyal or temporary customer ( that is not bad at all ). In other cases I just didn't even come back or tried to draw there again.

 

[AnnVee]

And what if I have not a lot of time to build and audience? I SHOULD SUPPORT A WHOLE FAMILY!!! Or maybe better to disappear and find a "real work", because till I'll build and audience the family will die c:

 

[Rayd]

i personally don't see the problem. you're still able to post reminders several times a day. i can't imagine there's much detriment to your profit not being allowed to post reminders every 30 minutes like a lot of artists did. if anything, i think it's a benefit considering you're annoying less people and aren't driving them away from future work.

don't get me wrong, a filter would have been way WAY better than what they put in place, but since FA's devs aren't the greatest, this is what we have to live with, and i honestly don't think it's that bad.