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a request to rethink. From the Rules

Did you record losses under the new regulation?

  • Yes and How tell us in the commens

  • No If not tell us how and how you deal with it


Results are only viewable after voting.
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Rayd

philosophy & psychology nerd
If you are not satisfied with the reason for dissatisfaction, this does not mean that this reason should not be taken into account.
why don't you take into account the fact that annoying users in reminders are also an emotional reason and a sentimental argument. this is not the end of life, unlike artists who feel the real consequences of this. From the fact that you write that the problem does not exist, the problem does not disappear, and the consequences from it, too. I believe that the problem should be resolved by the administration.
the comparison doesn't work. i'm not blaming a website for my financial stability, nor is my financial stability tied to whether or not i think reminders are annoying. it's hardly emotional and not at all sentimental. the problem exists, but it's the artists' problem to solve, not FA's.
 

Raever

Chaotic Neutral Wreckage
So basically screw artists on an art website. Nice.

No one has said that, please don't be so sensitive. All I have personally said, is that FA is trying to control spam - but has poor organization, and that poor organization happens to inhibit artists (which sucks), but that also isn't an excuse for constant spam - and on top of that, no site is responsible for an Artist's well being. If you feel FA hinders you it's your responsibility as an artist to spread out, self-advertise, and sell on multiple platforms as any small business owner would.

Instead of trying to change the rules, I would recommend we find a coder for FA to implement better organization if they don't have a suitable team to update the site in such a manner already. This would be beneficial to everyone, especially artists, as their reminders wouldn't be lost in a sea of non-business oriented submissions (read the full post I made above to understand why I say that).
 

Rayd

philosophy & psychology nerd
So basically screw artists on an art website. Nice.
not at all actually. lots of artists are still doing just fine. i'm just saying that financially troubled artists can't obligate FA to fix their financial problems, because it's not their problems. it's important to go into freelancing knowing the risks, and how just about anything can happen and affect your income, which is honestly the same for any occupation. if you end up not being able to freelance comfortably, then, well...
 

Bluefangcat

Well-Known Member
The constant spam of reminders and ych reminders is very frustrating to artists who are trying to put out finished pieces and get lost in the flood of people begging others to buy their art. I think the rule is good for people who draw because they actually enjoy it and want to share it, and people who want to browse the front page and see the newest stuff without seeing a bunch of unfinished repetitive pieces.
 

DoctorKroll

New Member
not at all actually. lots of artists are still doing just fine. i'm just saying that financially troubled artists can't obligate FA to fix their financial problems, because it's not their problems. it's important to go into freelancing knowing the risks, and how just about anything can happen and affect your income, which is honestly the same for any occupation. if you end up not being able to freelance comfortably, then, well...
I am glad that you at least ceased to deny the harm of the new rules for artists. I believe that any community organizer is responsible for its members. and we are here to talk about our problems after innovations in the hope that the administration will revise the rules, if they are not interested in the main part of their resource, the creators of the content (the fa itself does not create any content just an intermediary), then at least everyone should know about it
 

Rayd

philosophy & psychology nerd
I am glad that you at least ceased to deny the harm of the new rules for artists. I believe that any community organizer is responsible for its members. and we are here to talk about our problems after innovations in the hope that the administration will revise the rules, if they are not interested in the main part of their resource, the creators of the content (the fa itself does not create any content just an intermediary), then at least everyone should know about it
the main part of FA's resource is always going to remain there because there will always be artists who either A.) are financially stable enough to do freelancing as a full-time job, thus have no need to fear this change, or B.) have an actual job, thus have no need to fear this change. it's not going to hurt FA if a few artists leave, frankly speaking.
 

Raever

Chaotic Neutral Wreckage
I believe that any community organizer is responsible for its members.

There's the keyphrase. They're responsible for their MEMBERS.
As in keeping up security and attempting to make sure the site functions well enough.
They are not responsible for a member's wallet. It's entitled to assume such, plain and simple.

Yes, we agree that for business purposes FA's rules stifle opportunities - but FA isn't a furry artist's etsy store. It's a place for artists first, and sellers second - and that's how the site has always been. It's putting artists, such as the one quoted below,

The constant spam of reminders and ych reminders is very frustrating to artists who are trying to put out finished pieces and get lost in the flood of people begging others to buy their art. I think the rule is good for people who draw because they actually enjoy it and want to share it, and people who want to browse the front page and see the newest stuff without seeing a bunch of unfinished repetitive pieces.

in a better position because their site is a site for artists. Not business owners. That's just how it is, and again, it would be nice to implement more organization for those who sell art. That isn't what FA was built for though, so it's wrong to be entitled to it. Especially when there are other ways to make income and FA should really be one slice of a big pie for sellers.

if they are not interested in the main part of their resource, the creators of the content (the fa itself does not create any content just an intermediary), then at least everyone should know about it

I don't think they're uninterested in artists, I think they're wanting to prevent spam. It's not like artists are forbidden from advertising entirely. It's not even like they put a 24 hour block on advertising. You can advertise every eight hours, which is one to three times a day depending on your sleep schedule and how much you wanna advertise. It just prevents extreme cases where every five to ten minutes there's 100 advertisements in a person's alerts and all over the new submissions browsing page. Call it what you will, but it is a little excessive...don't you think?
 

AnnVee

Anthro Artist
Never denied lower activity. And I'll repeat: If putting food on the table requires you to use a web site's free services in order to make money, you're going to have a bad time. If you are genuinely serious, you either need to get a non-commisison-based job, or suck it up and purchase advertising and get something official going. You will. Not. Survive. On freelance pay. If you are relying solely on FurAffinity to not only be up and running, but to strictly require twice the advertising.

It sucks that you'll take a hit. But FA is not under any obligation to be your free advertising platform. Pay for it, or find venues to supplement your advertising and work.



See most of my above reply. If this is your literal livelihood, you have to get serious about it and not depend on a free service remaining free forever.

Reminders are "resented" because they clog the gallery up. You don't mind it, because you thrive on it (financially). Imagine, however, if you were searching for entertainment on YouTube, and 8 out of 10 of those videos were just advertisements. You'd probably be a little resentful of them, particularly if they repeated every 2 pages or so, advertising the exact same thing. Try to understand that it is not some resentment against *artists*, just *spam*.

Additionally, I repeat: This site does not live or die based on the amount of advertising it freely allows in galleries. Please stop trying to be some faux-advocate for the "purity of the art gallery."

---

Nothing justifies breaking this particular rule, outside "I do not want to change what I'm doing, make the same amount of money, and continue using FA as a free advertising venue the way that I have been."
My salary is x2 bigger than in city
And I didn't finalize the studies to get a normal job. REMEMBER, I HAVE TO SUPPORT A FAMILY, NOT ONLY MYSELF, DON'T UNAPPRECIATE OUR SITUATIONS
 

AnnVee

Anthro Artist
And I paid for advertising as much as it was possible for me and reminders were more helpful... Read my story please, it's the first one on this place
 

AnnVee

Anthro Artist
the main part of FA's resource is always going to remain there because there will always be artists who either A.) are financially stable enough to do freelancing as a full-time job, thus have no need to fear this change, or B.) have an actual job, thus have no need to fear this change. it's not going to hurt FA if a few artists leave, frankly speaking.
Thank you so nice of you :)
(not at all)
It's like you lose your only one job and your boss say " it's not going hurt us, if you will leave, so leave please, we don't need you at all "
Even this site is free it doesn't mean to make someone leave after 4 years of good being there
You feel like step by step you lose all you worked for
And reading your comments again and again I feel like you can't or don't want to understand us, the situation we are in. Or you can't understand that there a dependent people from the FA, because the real work in our shitty places don't pay enough to support one person, sometimes when I get a job in the city ( the maximum I can because I didn't finalize the studies as I said) the boss or didn't pay to me, or find a reason to don't do it
And what I can do? Nothing, because I have not money even for an advocate.
So stop act so...ugh...have no words how bad I feel
Like an artist is a peace of shit that no one need here,so if you try to ask for a rules rewatch and make them softer you better should leave ..
 

AnnVee

Anthro Artist
I'm tired, really.
• no full time work - it is the same as not working a lot of time that is less money than we got after rules
x2 less money
• freelance site is not obligated and other stuff... - we ASK to review the rules, make them softer (maybe if not 4 hours, let them be 5-6) or make the rules softer, or better to pay 20$ a month or how to make reminders every 4 hours and not only 3 reminders posts.
I lose more than even 100$ - 200$
And AS I SAID advertising don't give me as much as reminders do
• not our problem that you have not a real job or a lot of watchers to don't need reminders - oh really? if a big part of artist use this site as main work, others use just for paying for games, others are okay cause had enough people to don't do the reminders at all ( that are not too much too)..so what if they in some time will just disappear for some reasons
For me is finding 2-3 works (of I'm lucky) to support a family
Let's not forget that we have quarantine and this work places are closed + will be taken again by others, who need this too
We have more than 300.000 people without work and how big are chances to get a job in a small city? Of course, no one cares and it's my problem.

Other sites to get money? Patreon can be , but hard to get someone or still add a lot of work (as I do) to offer more for not a big price ( including the future taxes that will make other think for sure if they want to support us)
Twitter- no, DeviantArt - no sense, Gumroad or merch - no one need this from you
Other ideas maybe, cause I tried a lot to don't be dependent only from FA, but it remain to be the only one source.

Well, sad that all can say only "ANNOYING" and all. I'm not sure I want to continue writing there my problems , explaining my opinion and ways of the resolving this all. No one reads is or just repeat "don't care,not my problems etc"

No sense to do. Hope, my or my friend's disappearing will be not to fast.
 

quoting_mungo

Well-Known Member
Let’s get this out of the way, for people who argue that FA’s failure to develop technological solutions is the real problem, and that everything would be hunky-dory if only there was a separation of reminders from the regular content stream:

If reminders, or sales posts altogether, could be opted out of, a lot of users would do so. You would get your sales seen by those people never. The sales stream would in all likelihood be below the fold on the front page (considering that the crafts stream is below the fold, and it would be freaking asinine to put reminders above original content by writers and audio artists). Chances are visibility of reminders etc would drop.

Also, some history on reminder rules:
Reminders have, in the past, been prohibited altogether (IIRC, this is the one I’m least certain about). They have been limited to two per sale (one whenever and one within 24 h of the end of the auction/sale deadline). Both of these policies were eased up on to cater to artists. Bitching that FA doesn’t care about its artists because it limits you to a total maximum of 9 reminders a day (if you have at least 3 active sales) is completely ignoring that side of the story.
do you carefully ignore the fact that a few seconds in 8 hours is ineffective?
A few seconds every four hours (which is what the rule used to be) is still going to sum up to, well, seconds. Twice as many seconds, maybe, but still seconds. The major change is the limit on total reminders, tbh. Which shouldn’t impact YCH auctions nearly as much as template art sales and adopts.
 

AnnVee

Anthro Artist
Filters..depends how they will work, cause I type now "YCH" in the search and I see more arts that was an YCH than YCHs at all.
Anyway, as we can see, it's hard to understand a problem when you have not to deal with it.
What was in the past, what will be in the future - no one cares. Even if someone will lose anything - that's his problem... this is how the humanity works?
You name this a gallery, where reminders is a trash.
BUT
This gallery exist mostly because of the YCHs and commissions that artists are drawing for you.
Reminders are appearing only 2 days if this is an auction or more if this is a fix price and no one take this. And if you saw this and you was not interested it doesn't mean that the person, that can be interested will see this.
I know the system, cause I also find the artist mostly because of the reminders, not only arts they do for others.
And don't forget, that a great artist that don't need reminders or do them once a 2 days have a big prices, that not a lot of people can afford, but the little artist, that have a pretty good skill and low prices will not get attention and will disappear.
I bet not a lot of furries want only expensive arts. And not a lot of artist agree to make their prices lower.

And I never though that this site will be forever for me, but really wanted to save it for some years till I can get a "real job", because all this " you can leave, that's your problems, you should do this and this (even you have not a possibility) makes me feel like I'm a nothing, not a part of this.
I tried to explain my opinion, to give ideas, to show the real thing is happening - but no one cares.
When you ask for their idea - they say that they are not obligated to think about it, but when it comes to tell us that "it's your problem, leave, don't work a full-time" they find a lot of time to write this again and again.

I'm done. I'm tired of it. I don't want to feel worse by reading this again every time. It's pretty clear to me that a big part of people here don't care about it.
 

Raever

Chaotic Neutral Wreckage
@AnnVee

Firstly I feel the need to point out that if you're an artist trying to pay bills, feed your kids, and so on based off of commissions by themselves then this is extremely irresponsible unless you're an outstanding artist that regularly (and without the need for much advertisement) can sell ten to fifteen $200.00(+) commissions in two weeks relatively easily. This isn't meant as an insult to artists who are looking to sell, I purchase from (imo) underrated artists often because I enjoy the arguably faster work, more appreciative attitude, and (sometimes) cheaper prices. That aside, I may not be an artist in the same way as most others here, but I did run a small business for six months last year when I was doing Arts and crafts for fun as a side gig whilst waiting for more stable work. In those six months I made roughly four thousand dollars in sales before closing shop, as I'd found better and more reliable work - and frankly I hate customer service even when it's self employed, haha. So, here is my unsolicited (but hopefully helpful) advice about how to make the most of your frustrating predicament so that you don't feel like you need Furaffinity to be successful.

1. Use social media

Many artists do this already, but having an account on things like Twitter, Facebook, Instagram, etc. and posting on it when you feel like it won't cut it. In order to be successful you will have to post once a day, minimum. It doesn't always have to be art, but interaction is important to building a proper customer basis. It also let's new prospects scope how you speak and what you offer. Speaking of showing what you offer - flaunt your art at least a few times a week. Not just advertisements but fun doodles, old commissions, whatever makes you happy to share. It goes a long way, trust me.

2. Invest in your own website

If you're making at least the bare minimum to have your own website ($5 - $60+ depending on the host) then absolutely get a website for yourself. This website will have sections for things like displaying all your commissioned work, personal work, price ranges, contact information, etc.

As a commissioner I can say that we love it when artists have a sense of professionalism, it makes them appear more trustworthy since they've invested into their own career and really take the next step in presenting it. You may be thinking, "Why bother using social media or art platforms if I have to buy a website?"

Firstly, you don't have to. Secondly, having your own website doesn't make those other sites/platforms useless. Quite the opposite, it not only makes you look
better on those platforms (as said before, job investment = serious and trustworthy), but those platforms also serve as very lucrative opportunities and free advertisement for your artwork/website. Much like what FA still serves as. Basically, the more you extend your reach, the more people want to work with you, the more you improve as an artist and have a lot of clients that prospecting commissioners can get into contact with, etc.

3. Use Trello

If you're serious about making a small but notable presence on social media and you manage to get a handful of regular commissions, you'll need to find a way to organize those orders in a way that not only helps you get work done efficiently but commissioners ADORE consistent updates and adore not having to ask for them in order to be thought of by the artist. Trello is a life saver for both sides, and it makes you look like you care. So get that handled, lol.

4. Get help

Don't be afraid to ask friends to share art for you, talk you up a little, whatever it takes to get your name out there. It may sound sketchy, but in reality this is what gets a lot of people off the ground when trying to start out on other platforms and I believe it does absolute wonders. Personal experiences with this proves that fact, but depending on your friend group, your mileage may vary. Whatever the case there is absolutely nothing wrong with asking for help. There are even groups on Twitter and Facebook for underrated artists to get shared around. It's honestly amazing what some random groups manage to accomplish. So just jump in and see what comes out of the effort.

5. Don't underestimate the small things

A majority of the money I made when selling crafts was from lower priced items such as pins. Things that were less than five dollars to make and get out to people. If you're having trouble selling an $80.00 half body piece with super detailed fur and amazing lighting, try to sell a $10.00 non-detailed fun headshot and see how long it takes you to get to that $80.00 goal. This kind of stuff is amazing for both getting your name out, showing examples, providing a non-expensive way for commissioners to develop a bond with you as an artist in case they want to commission again, and still provide a bit of money.

Let’s get this out of the way, for people who argue that FA’s failure to develop technological solutions is the real problem, and that everything would be hunky-dory if only there was a separation of reminders from the regular content stream:

If reminders, or sales posts altogether, could be opted out of, a lot of users would do so. You would get your sales seen by those people never. The sales stream would in all likelihood be below the fold on the front page (considering that the crafts stream is below the fold, and it would be freaking asinine to put reminders above original content by writers and audio artists). Chances are visibility of reminders etc would drop.

Personally speaking, I feel this would only apply to a few groups;

1. People who don't commission (so it wouldn't matter anyway)

2. People who do commission, but only go for custom pieces (so at minimum, 80% if reminders would be spam anyway and by that logic of course they'd want to ignore it when they could just shoot a message to their faved artist whenever they noticed coms open)

3. People who, for whatever reason, do commission and do like non-unique pieces but don't want to see reminders for those things they like (which, sounds a bit redundant, but hey - they have every right to do that lol)

I'm not saying you're wrong since viewers and coms would absolutely drop, but I feel like a majority of view drops would be the views of the non-buyers.
So in the end, it wouldn't necessarily matter unless you're specifically number hungry. Which, whether or not those views on FA count for anything is - as far as I can tell, - moot. As FA doesn't seem to have things like most viewed, or retweets. Sure people could favorite a YCH but most artists don't keep YCH announcements when they're completed and if they do, it's not really often someone favorites a YCH over the Finished YCH anyway. I dunno, this is just my two cents. I'm not an artist so I could be completely wrong here and I one hundred percent admit to that flaw.

Also, some history on reminder rules:
Reminders have, in the past, been prohibited altogether (IIRC, this is the one I’m least certain about). They have been limited to two per sale (one whenever and one within 24 h of the end of the auction/sale deadline). Both of these policies were eased up on to cater to artists. Bitching that FA doesn’t care about its artists because it limits you to a total maximum of 9 reminders a day (if you have at least 3 active sales) is completely ignoring that side of the story.

A few seconds every four hours (which is what the rule used to be) is still going to sum up to, well, seconds. Twice as many seconds, maybe, but still seconds. The major change is the limit on total reminders, tbh. Which shouldn’t impact YCH auctions nearly as much as template art sales and adopts.


This is something I just found really interesting.
I have no further comment on it, I just appreciated you sharing this information and wanted to publicly say, thank you for this.
 

Raever

Chaotic Neutral Wreckage
if this is an auction or more if this is a fix price and no one take this

Actually, I've seen several auctions where purchases were made weeks after the initial announcement.
If people like it, they'll buy it. They don't need the visual shoved into their eyes for an extra two seconds.
I think that you're a bit too panicky and while I understand the sorrow - if you look at the math, and history, it's still overreacting a tad bit.

This gallery exist mostly because of the YCHs and commissions that artists are drawing for you.

Actually your FA gallery exists because you post art.
Your art. Art that you wanted to make and upload.
It doesn't need commissions to exist.
That is a choice, not a necessity.
Though I feel this is obvious.

I know the system, cause I also find the artist mostly because of the reminders, not only arts they do for others.

Then you must not browse art that much. The majority of artists that I find are through pieces of art I stumble across, and based upon people's watchlists and favorites I'm willing to bet a lot of their favorites came out of similar circumstances. Reminders were never the, "Ah yes this is amazing!" moment (in my experience). It was always the art itself. Reminders are naturally made to look like a lesser quality product as they serve as announcement material, and due to this, can often be passed over by the majority when all they really want is to see some darn good art.

And don't forget, that a great artist that don't need reminders or do them once a 2 days have a big prices, that not a lot of people can afford, but the little artist, that have a pretty good skill and low prices will not get attention and will disappear.

I feel like myself, my friend Fal, and my other friend ConorHyena (all active on FA at this time) serve as examples of why this isn't true.
Firstly, many commissioners - especially new ones - do NOT want to spend sixty to a hundred dollars on a commission. I know one friend who won't even spend thirty without feeling a bit nervous. I have personally bought the two users above me commissions this month, with prices ranging from $17.00 to $40 each. I did this from (imo) smaller artists with enjoyable skill, and I did it because I like making my friends happy (and because I WANT to commission artists who aren't well known). Do I like spending too much money on high quality art? Yes, absolutely. The fandom is a hobby I invest in and I like seeing my character look good, but that doesn't mean I'm above spending as little as $5 on a weird burrito gif because I can. :p

Not everyone has $450(+) to spend on this for credibility's sake...


But most have $5 to spend on this just for the pure fun of it.


I bet not a lot of furries want only expensive arts. And not a lot of artist agree to make their prices lower.

You're right, but there are a lot of great artists out there and commissioners will find them.
Unless I'm doing something for fun (ex. the burrito gif above) or for a friend (being more lax) I take hours, days, sometimes a week or two picking out the artist I want for a commission. It's not about the prices, it's about what I envision. Being a commissioner means having a specific image in your head, and finding the right artist that can most accurately depict that general emotion of that imagery whilst also adding their own twist on things - without ruining the vision you had. It's a very time engrossing task and, really, does require a lot of effort. We do care about who we commission, but we care more about how much we can trust that artist. If they feel entitled to us - we look elsewhere, and often the most grateful artists are also the laid back and cheaper ones. This is off topic though.

I tried to explain my opinion, to give ideas, to show the real thing is happening - but no one cares.

We do care, but trying to change FA for more than what is arguably not enough of a reason (no offense but again, both the math and rationale has been shown above) means that you won't be taken seriously. Not because we don't want to take you seriously, but because in matters like this - not only are a lot of hands tied, but again, what you're complaining about can absolutely come off as entitled to FA's very free and very opportunistic advertisement for your work. I highly recommend trying out my advice above, if anything so FA isn't your only market in the future. Hopefully me taking the time to write all that out for you is seen as somewhat compassionate, instead of not passionate and cruel.

but really wanted to save it for some years till I can get a "real job", because all this " you can leave, that's your problems, you should do this and this (even you have not a possibility) makes me feel like I'm a nothing

This sounds like a deeper psychological issue that you should receive professional help for. No one here is trying to make you feel like you are nothing, not in the slightest. However, it is very important to be more realistic. If something as small as two extra seconds means "life and death" to your "career" then maybe FA couldn't have lasted those years that you wanted to with or without the rules change. It's time to face the facts and either expand your business, or find something more stable. This isn't said maliciously, but said for the sake of your mental wellbeing as well as the mouths you have to feed. I understand times are hard with the pandemic, but some essentials (ex. Walmart) are hiring nonstop during this time. Just in case you feel there is no hope in finding a more reliable job - there is. I have a roommate who has worked for that chain for seven years and he's watched them hire almost everyone that applied these passed few months purely due to how much they (and I'm sure other essential marked places) need help. So, chin up. You'll be okay.
 

AnnVee

Anthro Artist
@AnnVee

Firstly I feel the need to point out that if you're an artist trying to pay bills, feed your kids, and so on based off of commissions by themselves then this is extremely irresponsible unless you're an outstanding artist that regularly (and without the need for much advertisement) can sell ten to fifteen $200.00(+) commissions in two weeks relatively easily. This isn't meant as an insult to artists who are looking to sell, I purchase from (imo) underrated artists often because I enjoy the arguably faster work, more appreciative attitude, and (sometimes) cheaper prices. That aside, I may not be an artist in the same way as most others here, but I did run a small business for six months last year when I was doing Arts and crafts for fun as a side gig whilst waiting for more stable work. In those six months I made roughly four thousand dollars in sales before closing shop, as I'd found better and more reliable work - and frankly I hate customer service even when it's self employed, haha. So, here is my unsolicited (but hopefully helpful) advice about how to make the most of your frustrating predicament so that you don't feel like you need Furaffinity to be successful.

1. Use social media

Many artists do this already, but having an account on things like Twitter, Facebook, Instagram, etc. and posting on it when you feel like it won't cut it. In order to be successful you will have to post once a day, minimum. It doesn't always have to be art, but interaction is important to building a proper customer basis. It also let's new prospects scope how you speak and what you offer. Speaking of showing what you offer - flaunt your art at least a few times a week. Not just advertisements but fun doodles, old commissions, whatever makes you happy to share. It goes a long way, trust me.

2. Invest in your own website

If you're making at least the bare minimum to have your own website ($5 - $60+ depending on the host) then absolutely get a website for yourself. This website will have sections for things like displaying all your commissioned work, personal work, price ranges, contact information, etc.

As a commissioner I can say that we love it when artists have a sense of professionalism, it makes them appear more trustworthy since they've invested into their own career and really take the next step in presenting it. You may be thinking, "Why bother using social media or art platforms if I have to buy a website?"

Firstly, you don't have to. Secondly, having your own website doesn't make those other sites/platforms useless. Quite the opposite, it not only makes you look
better on those platforms (as said before, job investment = serious and trustworthy), but those platforms also serve as very lucrative opportunities and free advertisement for your artwork/website. Much like what FA still serves as. Basically, the more you extend your reach, the more people want to work with you, the more you improve as an artist and have a lot of clients that prospecting commissioners can get into contact with, etc.

3. Use Trello

If you're serious about making a small but notable presence on social media and you manage to get a handful of regular commissions, you'll need to find a way to organize those orders in a way that not only helps you get work done efficiently but commissioners ADORE consistent updates and adore not having to ask for them in order to be thought of by the artist. Trello is a life saver for both sides, and it makes you look like you care. So get that handled, lol.

4. Get help

Don't be afraid to ask friends to share art for you, talk you up a little, whatever it takes to get your name out there. It may sound sketchy, but in reality this is what gets a lot of people off the ground when trying to start out on other platforms and I believe it does absolute wonders. Personal experiences with this proves that fact, but depending on your friend group, your mileage may vary. Whatever the case there is absolutely nothing wrong with asking for help. There are even groups on Twitter and Facebook for underrated artists to get shared around. It's honestly amazing what some random groups manage to accomplish. So just jump in and see what comes out of the effort.

5. Don't underestimate the small things

A majority of the money I made when selling crafts was from lower priced items such as pins. Things that were less than five dollars to make and get out to people. If you're having trouble selling an $80.00 half body piece with super detailed fur and amazing lighting, try to sell a $10.00 non-detailed fun headshot and see how long it takes you to get to that $80.00 goal. This kind of stuff is amazing for both getting your name out, showing examples, providing a non-expensive way for commissioners to develop a bond with you as an artist in case they want to commission again, and still provide a bit of money.



Personally speaking, I feel this would only apply to a few groups;

1. People who don't commission (so it wouldn't matter anyway)

2. People who do commission, but only go for custom pieces (so at minimum, 80% if reminders would be spam anyway and by that logic of course they'd want to ignore it when they could just shoot a message to their faved artist whenever they noticed coms open)

3. People who, for whatever reason, do commission and do like non-unique pieces but don't want to see reminders for those things they like (which, sounds a bit redundant, but hey - they have every right to do that lol)

I'm not saying you're wrong since viewers and coms would absolutely drop, but I feel like a majority of view drops would be the views of the non-buyers.
So in the end, it wouldn't necessarily matter unless you're specifically number hungry. Which, whether or not those views on FA count for anything is - as far as I can tell, - moot. As FA doesn't seem to have things like most viewed, or retweets. Sure people could favorite a YCH but most artists don't keep YCH announcements when they're completed and if they do, it's not really often someone favorites a YCH over the Finished YCH anyway. I dunno, this is just my two cents. I'm not an artist so I could be completely wrong here and I one hundred percent admit to that flaw.




This is something I just found really interesting.
I have no further comment on it, I just appreciated you sharing this information and wanted to publicly say, thank you for this.
- - - -
How you can judge how irresponsible I am? Even I don't have children (thanks atm) I have other problem that are not less important or need less money than a child.
Did you read, that I pay for food, for apartment, bills, medical treatment, studies? An not only for me?
Social Media:
1. Have a Twitter - not too helpful.
2. Had an Insta - can't post NSFW stuff.
3. Had a Telegram Channel - not very useful.
4. TikTok - furry haters are more than lovers.
5. Twitch - the only thing I didn't try
6. DeviantArt - useless
7. Facebook -useless
8. YouTube - created a new one just to share videos for patrons, also were useless if you don't make animations or tutorial stuff
9. Society6 - no one buy the merch.

Website:
As I know a lot of artist don't do it, cause it is free to make a portfolio and commission prices on FA or Google.Docs. For me is useless, I'm not a shop.

Use Trello:
I already do for some years. Helps a lot, but it don't working instead of me, so it is just for tracking.

Get help:
I have a friend, that is mostly adv by me, not me by her. Other friend left the website or are not artists. And making friends and talking - is time, that or I spend on work or on talking

Don't underestimate the small things:
Bad to be to be a perfectionist. I don't want to trash my gallery with not detailed things that cost 10$, even I know I will spend a lot of time to make them normal (and the real cost will be 80$ again) or it will be a shame as an artist to post it.
I want to create quality, details, try to don't put a high price and all were nice and well sold, the problems started from doing less reminders.
And let me explain how it will work:
= Commissions for 20$
1. You get this, get money
2. You spend a lot of time to make a cute face, an anatomic pose, a correct idea
3. You spend time on making the main part, even if there aren't a lot of details...so it's 20$ per 3 hours? Really? It's not like a done stuff that you sold and have nothing to do - you work on it, not copy and paste as a pin.
Art and material stuff can't be compared in this way.
And as I said - I'm an artist, not a fabric. I also want to grow my skill, not to make a lot of easy sketches and trash my gallery. Don't want to cry after some years because my skill remain the same as 3 years ago (for example).
This might work with a new artist, not with a long-being here artist, that not only support the family, but try to offer a lot and grow the skills to exit from this shit.
And I need to grow up the skills if I want a better work in the future.
 

AnnVee

Anthro Artist
"Actually your FA gallery exists because you post art.
Your art. Art that you wanted to make and upload.
It doesn't need commissions to exist.
That is a choice, not a necessity.
Though I feel this is obvious. "


What I can say:
Little spoiler - this arts exist because they were YCHs or commissions. Check their descriptions more often to see that : A YCH, commission for :icon:"
 

quoting_mungo

Well-Known Member
Personally speaking, I feel this would only apply to a few groups;

1. People who don't commission (so it wouldn't matter anyway)

2. People who do commission, but only go for custom pieces (so at minimum, 80% if reminders would be spam anyway and by that logic of course they'd want to ignore it when they could just shoot a message to their faved artist whenever they noticed coms open)

3. People who, for whatever reason, do commission and do like non-unique pieces but don't want to see reminders for those things they like (which, sounds a bit redundant, but hey - they have every right to do that lol)

I'm not saying you're wrong since viewers and coms would absolutely drop, but I feel like a majority of view drops would be the views of the non-buyers.
So in the end, it wouldn't necessarily matter unless you're specifically number hungry. Which, whether or not those views on FA count for anything is - as far as I can tell, - moot. As FA doesn't seem to have things like most viewed, or retweets. Sure people could favorite a YCH but most artists don't keep YCH announcements when they're completed and if they do, it's not really often someone favorites a YCH over the Finished YCH anyway. I dunno, this is just my two cents. I'm not an artist so I could be completely wrong here and I one hundred percent admit to that flaw.
I don’t have the finances to buy art at present, but I could potentially belong to that third group once my circumstances change. If I want art I will go looking for it, and I absolutely consider multiple posts of the same thing - and any submission posted with the intent of removing it later, for that matter - spam. I have, genuinely, seen YCH sketches I liked that were in my price range at the time, and rejected them because the artist posts a lot of reminders and I refuse to encourage that.

The more pressing issue for artists about a technological solution, however, is being pushed below the fold. The perceived benefit of reminders, at present, is showing up as part of the “recent art” feed for casual browsers. If these browsers are coming in from the front page, they’re liable to see only the top one or two sections, maybe three if they have a large monitor. The top three sections are going to be art, writing, and audio, in some order. No getting around that. That means your reminders, were they separated out into a separate feed, would not be seen by people viewing the front page unless they actively scroll down. Similarly, sales posts as a separate feed might not be included on the default “Browse” page.

Lastly, “popularity” is a search result sorting option, and while I don’t know the exact algorithm used to determine the order on that page, one or more of views/favorites/comments logically must factor in somehow. So views from people who don’t want to buy might or might not factor in.

(For transparency: I am an artist. I have posted sales on FA before, and sold a few pieces, though I don’t currently take commissions. I never made use of reminders as I can recall, and if I did they would have been unique, newly created art, intended to stay in my gallery or at least my scraps. Commissions are by far the minority of the content in my gallery, and my FA gallery is in turn a small subset of the art I’ve created, because it’s curated while my Tumblr... isn’t.)

I guess the main thing I want to point out is that “a technological solution would be so much better than this rules change” isn’t necessarily (or in my opinion even likely) true.
 

AnnVee

Anthro Artist
We didn't try to change the rules, we requested to make them softer and okay for all.
ANd I felt like nothing, only because it's easy to someone to say "nothing if they will leave" without thinking - what if they are in problems only because of it.
And if you didn't read all my notes, didn't read about the stats, work shedule, personal situation - not sure, that any examples and advice will be okay.
I only can say, that if I will left a part of income, my friend, that is less popular and no matter how much times I introduced her on my page in journals - she will remain with nothing.
And I can't tell all details of the life, it is too personal. Even it will explain a lot.
And I meant that till you will find this new artis to buy some funny easy stuff - he will not get the support and will disappear. Not all, but a big part.

Well, will see what will be. I'm tired of texting and explaining. All my opinion is above.

Anyway, I said I'm done. Please, don't reply.
 

Raever

Chaotic Neutral Wreckage
- - - -
How you can judge how irresponsible I am?

Not judging, just stating that it's best to not put all your eggs in a basket that's not held together.
Again, I stated an unless in there. If you feel you can maintain financial stabily don't let me rain on your parade.
Just be aware that, based on your complaints...it would be hard to believe.

Social Media:
1. Have a Twitter - not too helpful.
2. Had an Insta - can't post NSFW stuff.
3. Had a Telegram Channel - not very useful.
4. TikTok - furry haters are more than lovers.
5. Twitch - the only thing I didn't try
6. DeviantArt - useless
7. Facebook -useless
8. YouTube - created a new one just to share videos for patrons, also were useless if you don't make animations or tutorial stuff
9. Society6 - no one buy the merch.

These are tools, not a way to get money easier (though if used well it can turn into that).
If they didn't work for you, but worked for other artists - that is up to you to figure out why.

Website:
As I know a lot of artist don't do it, cause it is free to make a portfolio and commission prices on FA or Google.Docs. For me is useless, I'm not a shop.

You are, however, trying to make a living from art.
So you are selling your wares, so to speak.
As said prior, websites at the very least look professional and maintain a source for people to buy from you if they prefer that method.

Use Trello:
I already do for some years. Helps a lot, but it don't working instead of me, so it is just for tracking.

Get help:
I have a friend, that is mostly adv by me, not me by her. Other friend left the website or are not artists. And making friends and talking - is time, that or I spend on work or on talking

Don't underestimate the small things:
Bad to be to be a perfectionist. I don't want to trash my gallery with not detailed things that cost 10$, even I know I will spend a lot of time to make them normal (and the real cost will be 80$ again) or it will be a shame as an artist to post it.
I want to create quality, details, try to don't put a high price and all were nice and well sold, the problems started from doing less reminders.
And let me explain how it will work:
= Commissions for 20$
1. You get this, get money
2. You spend a lot of time to make a cute face, an anatomic pose, a correct idea
3. You spend time on making the main part, even if there aren't a lot of details...so it's 20$ per 3 hours? Really? It's not like a done stuff that you sold and have nothing to do - you work on it, not copy and paste as a pin.
Art and material stuff can't be compared in this way.
And as I said - I'm an artist, not a fabric. I also want to grow my skill, not to make a lot of easy sketches and trash my gallery. Don't want to cry after some years because my skill remain the same as 3 years ago (for example).
This might work with a new artist, not with a long-being here artist, that not only support the family, but try to offer a lot and grow the skills to exit from this shit.
And I need to grow up the skills if I want a better work in the future.

Not commenting on these for obvious reasons.
Again, you're a business owner if you plan on selling anything.
If you don't act like one, you won't succeed.

I didn't copy and paste a pin, I said I made arts and crafts and one of the things I offered were pins, you don't know whether I drew the designs myself and making the assumption is highly insulting. Moving on.

Little spoiler - this arts exist because they were YCHs or commissions. Check their descriptions more often to see that : A YCH, commission for :icon:"

You're missing my point.
FA doesn't exist as an advertisement hub.
The gallery was made for the purpose of sharing art.
Sometimes that art will be your own, sometimes it might be commissions.
You get the idea, I won't push it further.

We didn't try to change the rules, we requested to make them softer and okay for all.

They are already pretty soft.
You're advocating spam-rights.

Please, don't reply.

It's a public forum. We can respond if we want, but you are right about one thing: we have provided facts, and you have provided nothing - so there is nothing else to speak of.

I don’t have the finances to buy art at present, but I could potentially belong to that third group once my circumstances change. If I want art I will go looking for it, and I absolutely consider multiple posts of the same thing - and any submission posted with the intent of removing it later, for that matter - spam. I have, genuinely, seen YCH sketches I liked that were in my price range at the time, and rejected them because the artist posts a lot of reminders and I refuse to encourage that.

Yep, I've done the exact same thing. :/

The more pressing issue for artists about a technological solution, however, is being pushed below the fold. The perceived benefit of reminders, at present, is showing up as part of the “recent art” feed for casual browsers. If these browsers are coming in from the front page, they’re liable to see only the top one or two sections, maybe three if they have a large monitor. The top three sections are going to be art, writing, and audio, in some order. No getting around that. That means your reminders, were they separated out into a separate feed, would not be seen by people viewing the front page unless they actively scroll down. Similarly, sales posts as a separate feed might not be included on the default “Browse” page.

I think FA deserves praise for even being relevant for so many years, especially with other more modern (and organized, ahem) sites popping up. However, I feel that - as said prior - this is more reason than ever for FA and it's team to look into developing a new organizational system. I do not believe it will solve every problem, but I believe it will solve a majority of the issues being complained about, and also provide a more user friendly atmosphere. I know it might take awhile to implement and don't expect such changes overnight, but it would definitely be useful for all members, which is always the best solution to go for (imo).

Lastly, “popularity” is a search result sorting option, and while I don’t know the exact algorithm used to determine the order on that page, one or more of views/favorites/comments logically must factor in somehow. So views from people who don’t want to buy might or might not factor in.

I never used that before so I honestly forgot about it!
Oops, lol.

I guess the main thing I want to point out is that “a technological solution would be so much better than this rules change” isn’t necessarily (or in my opinion even likely) true.

Better than the rules change is a no from me, but good overall is a yes in my book.
 
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AnnVee

Anthro Artist
Not judging, just stating that it's best to not put all your eggs in a basket that's not held together.
Again, I stated an unless in there. If you feel you can maintain financial stabily don't let me rain on your parade.
Just be aware that, based on your complaints...it would be hared to believe.

These are tools, not quit cash grabs.
If they didn't work for you, but worked for other artists - that is up to you to figure out why.

I didn't use it as a cah grabs, just didn't get attention.

You are, however, trying to make a living from art.
So you are selling your wares, so to speak.
As said prior, websites at the very least look professional and maintain a source for people to buy from you if they prefer that method.

Artists still use FA as a more comfy wait of it. In other case it is just money on wind.

Not commenting on these for obvious reasons.
Again, you're a business owner if you plan on selling anything.
If you don't act like one, you won't succeed.

I do and try, but reminders was a help-hand. + they were done like every 4 hours 3-4 times a day and wasn't done for 11 hours (sleep, life stuff etc.)
So now I can so it 1 maximum 2 times. Do you feel the difference? I really do.


I didn't copy and paste a pin, I said I made arts and crafts and one of the things I offered were pins, you don't know whether I drew them myself and making the assumption is highly insulting. Moving on.
Okay, here I didn't understand correct, I'm sorry. I understand that is like on Redbubble - draw an art and go to a city place when can make copies.


You're missing my point.
FA doesn't exist as an advertisement hub.
The gallery was made for the purpose of sharing art.
Sometimes that art will be your own, sometimes it might be commissions.
You get the idea, I won't push it further.

Well, mostly we are doing only YCHs and don't risk to spend time of us (or not too much) because we need to get cash for life. Maximum I draw for myself is a sketch chibi or an avarat once a 3-6 months. Only when really had nothing to do. But this was before Patreon.

Yep, I've done the exact same thing. :/

Really the thing that someone makes reminders stops you to buy smth? Why? I really can't understand this way of thinking.
Like we do this for you to see this, and you don't buy it, so we continue doing this and it's endless then?


I think FA deserves praise for even being relevant for so many years, especially with other more modern (and organized, ahem) sites popping up. However, I feel that - as said prior - this is more reason than ever for FA and it's team to look into developing a new organizational system. I do not believe it will solve every problem, but I believe it will solve a majority of the issues being complained about, and also provide a more user friendly atmosphere. I know it might take awhile to implement and don't expect such changes overnight, but it would definitely be useful for all members, which is always the best solution to go for (imo).



I never used that before so I honestly forgot about it!
Oops, lol.



Better than the rules change is a no from me, but good overall is a yes in my book.
 

Raever

Chaotic Neutral Wreckage

Really the thing that someone makes reminders stops you to buy smth? Why?

I can't speak for Mango, but I will word my own opinion with a metaphor...

Imagine that you're walking in a mall's food court.
You're hungry and you have cash on you, and the food smells delicious.
You walk around trying to pick something, and get offered a sample of chicken.
You liked the chicken, you continue walking, and get offered another sample of chicken.
Alright, less thrilling but you still eat it. You get offered three more samples.
Well, now you absolutely know that you don't want to buy anything with chicken in it.
So you settle for a cheese burger instead, which was never even offered as a sample - but you just decided that it was what you wanted, and so you bought it...and it satisfied you.

It doesn't mean the chicken wasn't good, it just was overwhelmingly available.
So you no longer felt the need to buy it when these samples just kept getting shoved in your face every few moments.

It might not be the best metaphor, but it's the best I have at the moment.

I really can't understand this way of thinking.
Like we do this for you to see this, and you don't buy it, so we continue doing this and it's endless then?

You do this "for us" and we see it, but if it's ALL we see we grow tired of seeing it and no longer want it.
It becomes an eyesore, even if it's a good concept. This doesn't happen with every YCH, just the overly spam-tastic ones.

Okay, here I didn't understand correct, I'm sorry. I understand that is like on Redbubble - draw an art and go to a city place when can make copies.

I drew small designs, made them into pins, and sold them on Etsy via listings and mailing them out.
I sold other things - but again, pins were cheap and lots of people collect them.
Plus they were fun to make, so it never became super bothersome for me.
It was a nice little hobby all in all.
 
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AnnVee

Anthro Artist
Really the thing that someone makes reminders stops you to buy smth? Why?

I can't speak for Mango, but I will word my own opinion with a metaphor...

Imagine that you're walking in a mall's food court.
You're hungry and you have cash on you, and the food smells delicious.
You walk around trying to pick something, and get offered a sample of chicken.
You liked the chicken, you continue walking, and get offered another sample of chicken.
Alright, less thrilling but you still eat it. You get offered three more samples.
Well, now you absolutely know that you don't want to buy anything with chicken in it.
So you settle for a cheese burger instead, which was never even offered as a sample - but you just decided that it was what you wanted, and so you bought it...and it satisfied you.

It doesn't mean the chicken wasn't good, it just was overwhelmingly available.
So you no longer felt the need to buy it when these samples just kept getting shoved in your face every few moments.

It might not be the best metaphor, but it's the best I have at the moment.

I really can't understand this way of thinking.
Like we do this for you to see this, and you don't buy it, so we continue doing this and it's endless then?

You do this "for us" and we see it, but if it's ALL we see we grow tired of seeing it and no longer want it.
It becomes an eyesore, even if it's a good concept. This doesn't happen with every YCH, just the overly spam-tastic ones.

Okay, here I didn't understand correct, I'm sorry. I understand that is like on Redbubble - draw an art and go to a city place when can make copies.

I drew small designs, made them into pins, and sold them on Etsy via listings and mailing them out.
I sold other things - but again, pins were cheap and lots of people collect them.
Plus they were fun to make, so it never became super bothersome for me.
It was a nice little hobby all in all.

The sad thing is that this affect this people, who makes it normally and not too often. Like once a 4-5 hours. And who violate the rules continue to do it.
 
Really the thing that someone makes reminders stops you to buy smth? Why?

I can't speak for Mango, but I will word my own opinion with a metaphor...

Imagine that you're walking in a mall's food court.
You're hungry and you have cash on you, and the food smells delicious.
You walk around trying to pick something, and get offered a sample of chicken.
You liked the chicken, you continue walking, and get offered another sample of chicken.
Alright, less thrilling but you still eat it. You get offered three more samples.
Well, now you absolutely know that you don't want to buy anything with chicken in it.
So you settle for a cheese burger instead, which was never even offered as a sample - but you just decided that it was what you wanted, and so you bought it...and it satisfied you.

It doesn't mean the chicken wasn't good, it just was overwhelmingly available.
So you no longer felt the need to buy it when these samples just kept getting shoved in your face every few moments.

It might not be the best metaphor, but it's the best I have at the moment.

I really can't understand this way of thinking.
Like we do this for you to see this, and you don't buy it, so we continue doing this and it's endless then?

You do this "for us" and we see it, but if it's ALL we see we grow tired of seeing it and no longer want it.
It becomes an eyesore, even if it's a good concept. This doesn't happen with every YCH, just the overly spam-tastic ones.

Okay, here I didn't understand correct, I'm sorry. I understand that is like on Redbubble - draw an art and go to a city place when can make copies.

I drew small designs, made them into pins, and sold them on Etsy via listings and mailing them out.
I sold other things - but again, pins were cheap and lots of people collect them.
Plus they were fun to make, so it never became super bothersome for me.
It was a nice little hobby all in all.
Are you getting paid for all this rubbish? these pathetic attempts to justify the unfounded
You will ignore the damage done to the artists, putting forward arguments like "you feel better, this is not a problem for you, I sold it for a hobby, I'm fine." If you do not care about a group of artists who have suffered from the new rules. where did you get the idea that tomorrow some other group of people in the FA will not suffer? What sane person will raise a feeling of annoyance from reminders and close his eyes to serious losses for people?
I laugh from your stupid comparisons, the fa is a unique platform with a unique economic system. all here were happy artists and shoppers. from a convenient sales system you made a resource suitable only for mediocre artists and people with special fetishes
 
@Reaver
you write this because you didn’t suffer in any way, if you were among us, you would cry plaintively and ask for mercy. do not disgrace and do not waste time on all the nonsense you wrote
 
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