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a request to rethink. From the Rules

Did you record losses under the new regulation?

  • Yes and How tell us in the commens

  • No If not tell us how and how you deal with it


Results are only viewable after voting.
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So now I've let everything through to me. Now Raver has named points that I agree on how to find an Orginastions solution. Understand that you have to look for many other places to market yourself. But I didn't really find those that came close to the crowd besides Devienart. I think the site should take care of its artists in a way. You shouldn't say bad luck because something like that is cold and mean when you say that's the world. Well, that may not be so that she has to stay that way if you pay attention to each other would not be bad. These are just my dreams of the world.

Then we summarize, the spam is uncomfortable I understand but I understand that it is important for artists. The banners and ads are useless because many people are traveling with ad blockers. I also understand the argument that people are now looking to buy something, but now with YCH more people are reached who can be. a second at 2h would be crazy that nobody wants either at 4h again then composed with a chanel where it doesn't bother people looking for art. An adjustment of the regulations. Please don't come now, do it yourself or look for someone to do it. Because the site offers you a place where you can bring ideas so that opportunities can develop further. We accuse each other of being unreasonable that it is not important or that we do not read what you like. Some want no spam, I understand the others want a way to offer themselves. Because Fa is no longer just a place to look at pictures, but also a place where you can buy art for this hoppy, which for many is a jop.
 

quoting_mungo

Well-Known Member
Really the thing that someone makes reminders stops you to buy smth? Why?

I can't speak for Mango, but I will word my own opinion with a metaphor...
In my case I don’t buy from artists that post unoriginal reminders (if the reminders feature unique art intended to remain in their gallery, that’s a different matter and I have no problem with that) because I dislike the practice of using an art gallery site to post ephemeral, meant-to-be-deleted-later content. If I give people that do so business that encourages them to do it more. Just like I would walk away from a market stall or store if the salesperson kept nagging me. To me reminders are like a nagging, pushy salesperson.

I’d rather give my money to someone whose art I enjoy and who has a concept I like (if I’m looking at a YCH or themed commission) without trying to shove it down my throat.

I laugh from your stupid comparisons, the fa is a unique platform with a unique economic system. all here were happy artists and shoppers. from a convenient sales system you made a resource suitable only for mediocre artists and people with special fetishes
FA was receiving complaints about the reminder spam. Including from people who do spend money on art. Clearly not everyone was happy with things how they were. Dismissing everyone that dislikes and/or doesn’t use reminders as “mediocre artists and people with special fetishes” is incredibly insulting both to people who use this art site (note: not “sales system” - that some users were using it as such doesn’t make that the core nature of the site) to view finished artwork, and to artists who do not use reminders to sell their work (as well as kinkshaming, which is its own kind of nope). You don’t rise from mediocrity by posting sales reminders, you rise from mediocrity by improving your skills. Whether you receive payment for the practice that brings you there is irrelevant.

The banners and ads are useless because many people are traveling with ad blockers. I also understand the argument that people are now looking to buy something, but now with YCH more people are reached who can be. a second at 2h would be crazy that nobody wants either at 4h again then composed with a chanel where it doesn't bother people looking for art. An adjustment of the regulations.
I’ve gone into how separating sales into their own section (which I think is what you’re referring to with “a channel where it doesn’t bother people looking for art” - please correct me if I’m wrong) might actually hurt sales more than limiting reminders the way they currently are earlier in this thread. It is, of course, speculation, but it’s definitely a possible scenario. Anecdotally, I can say that a lot of people whom I’ve seen talking about their use of adblockers on FA specifically whitelist the community ads where their adblocker has the functionality, as what they want to avoid are the Google ads. The people who block the lot of them probably don’t want to see ads in the form of reminders, either, though that’s just a guess.
 

RatCult13

New Member
The current rules are a real infringement of rights.
Young and New artists will never be able to become more popular on this platform, because once in eight hours, she cartographically small. The image will pass unnoticed.
And if they live in a different time zone, you don't even have to try to visit the site.
It's a disgrace.
I don't mind reasonable restrictions. But three reminders on all accounts every eight hours, do not give anyone a chance to develop. Even super-popular. But they will remain only thanks to the audience that they managed to gather.
Very offensive and unpleasant.
 

winklwink

New Member
Seeing the new rules, I was very upset, in fact, I lost the desire to work for this platform, because there were no ways I could promote my art, and I did not have the smallest number of subscribers. The new rules will strangle new artists who just came to FA, it would be better if the rules remained the same,
but their implementation was monitored more strictly.
 

Lutro

Writer
Lot of stuff happened overnight! Let's cleanse the nonsense away:
  • To those being impacted: Calm down. Stop resorting to emotional appeals ("I have mouths to feed") as if getting 30 seconds of advertising (going by "each reminder is only a few seconds per post") instead of 60. If you are truly in that sort of peril the onus is on you to do something about it. FA is not your social safety net. It is a furry art gallery web site. Grow up.
  • @RatCult13 This rule change is an infringement of precisely zero rights. Either cite the relevant laws or don't suggest such tripe. It's one thing to be upset. It's another to go "this web site is committing a crime" (which rights-infringement would be). Put a stop to that hogwash right now, as it contributes nothing to the conversation other than more hand-wringing based on non-facts.
  • I've seen several "oh so you don't care about artists then" posts from people who don't like the rule change. Shut your traps. Five pages and the bulk of the argument against these rules is "I did hypothetical math and I'll be homeless soon" or "wow clearly you don't care about me because you see how little this change actually affects people." You're appealing to emotion and just trying to paint everyone who doesn't agree with you as overtly evil without addressing points brought up.
  • Similarly "who paid you to write this" is poppycock. If someone doesn't agree with you that doesn't mean they're corrupt or being influenced by The Man to write something. Unless you're citing evidence to contradict said posts, their posts are just as valid as yours.
  • An artist's success/popularity is driven by their content and capability, not by how often or frequent they can spam YCH/reminders of things. There are a boatload of factors that go into general success, and I guarantee you being able to spam more times per day is absolutely not one of them.
  • Annoyance of advertising being strictly "sentimental" is a laughable accusation to make, considering the bulk of points going the other way are just that: Emotional, not based in reality (the change has hardly been in effect, so there's literally 0 hard evidence about anyone losing much of anything -- hypothetical math is just that: Hypothetical).
  • Additionally, so much flooding can actually cause a downturn in sales, because literal seconds does not translate to valid impressions. "Annoyance doesn't compare to our own plight" is an invalid dismissal. What if there's a downtick in gallery viewing because the gallery becomes so full of ads that users don't browse that way anymore? Played yourself there. [Don't think this is true? It has just as much hypothetical validity as all the "I'll lose everything if I can't spam stuff" idiocy I've been seeing suggested time and time again.]
  • A treasure trove of suggestions and advice have been given in this thread for those in true dire need to do art to sustain their current livelihood. This post even explains a lot of them. Brushing all of that aside just to 'be right' shows you either aren't actually in that situation, or genuinely do not care. Dismissing proved-to-work concepts like "use more than one web site", "use social media" et al because you think or assume it won't work is immature. And if you're actually hanging by the thread of YCH/reminders to live, you ought to be ashamed of yourself. If you're that desperate you should be seizing every opportunity to try and expand your horizons to achieve better results, not wantonly ignoring them because "then I'd be wrong."
I am going to block/ignore any user that quotes me with stupid "you don't care" or other put-words-in-mouth codswallop. Also those who will reply with other strawmanning "oh so artists' lives don't matter" rubbish. Thread has enough of those sub-conversations, and they're contributing nothing. If you do want to reply, please address the points with something empirical, not appeals to the heart. Use the brain or resources to construct counter-points, not spur-of-the-moment rage inspired from being shown that you may, in fact, be incorrect about something.
 
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~AciD_Hyena~

New Member
In the two years that I was on the Fa site, I did not experience any infringement, or discomfort from the fact that I saw a lot of Reminders. I didn't care about that.
I think you need to reduce the time to 4 hours at least, and for convenience to 2-3
It will be more convenient
These rules hit the budgets of budding artists very much, I'm really sorry for them
I no longer update my ych 5 days, and I learned about the rules only ten days later, ten!
I think the rules will not give you much, people will create other accounts, they will do reminders every hour, and then, if they are blocked, create a new one with a different signature and a slightly different style
I do not think that the rules will be in place.
Sorry for bad English, I use a translator
I hope my idea is clear
 

AnnVee

Anthro Artist
"
An artist's success/popularity is driven by their content and capability, not by how often or frequent they can spam YCH/reminders of things. There are a boatload of factors that go into general success, and I guarantee you being able to spam more times per day is absolutely not one of them.

So this is why are a lot of nice artists, that have less attention that a not really skilled one.
And if we see, the most popular artist never deleted their auctions even they done the artwork. This is a submission in scraps that is "trashy" on opinion of others.

To those being impacted: Calm down. Stop resorting to emotional appeals ("I have mouths to feed") as if getting 30 seconds of advertising (going by "each reminder is only a few seconds per post") instead of 60. If you are truly in that sort of peril the onus is on you to do something about it. FA is not your social safety net. It is a furry art gallery web site. Grow up.

Emotional appeals is how you see this. Artists explain why this is important to them. They explain what they lose, what can be (and not because we use our imagination, but because it's pretty clear what in 80% of cases can happen). And of course we think about this 20% too, but 20 contra 80?

If you do want to reply, please address the points with something empirical, not appeals to the heart. Use the brain or resources to construct counter-points, not spur-of-the-moment rage inspired from being shown that you may, in fact, be incorrect about something.

There were a lot of arguments about the sales, the activity and you just ignored it, didn't you?

Try to understand, that not being affected because of the new rules don't help you to realise what you can lose and understand others easily.
Facts? How, as I said, if the stats, the comparation isn't a fact for you?

I think the rules will not give you much, people will create other accounts, they will do reminders every hour, and then, if they are blocked, create a new one with a different signature and a slightly different style

It is possible only if we do this from another IP address (what is a problem for 2 different artists that have the same IP and if one of them get a ban). But it's hard to lose all you have done for 2,3,4 years and start again from nothing. I don't know, we can't violate the rules and I don't want to, so this is why I'm one of the people who ask for a change.

Idk why all think that we say " they are obligated to change it " when in the title is " a request to rethink "

Coming back ,but not so active as before. Can't shut when I read an opinion, that says again and again that we are "resorting to emotional appeals ("I have mouths to feed")". This is~
 

Lutro

Writer
So this is why are a lot of nice artists, that have less attention that a not really skilled one.
And if we see, the most popular artist never deleted their auctions even they done the artwork. This is a submission in scraps that is "trashy" on opinion of others.
They very well should delete, if those are the rules. Report any rule-violations. It's the best and easiest way for the site admins to take action. They can't act on what they don't see.

Emotional appeals is how you see this. Artists explain why this is important to them. They explain what they lose, what can be (and not because we use our imagination, but because it's pretty clear what in 80% of cases can happen). And of course we think about this 20% too, but 20 contra 80? There were a lot of arguments about the sales, the activity and you just ignored it, didn't you?
They were not ignored. Those posts were filled with "this might happen" and "this could be the case." Not reality, just fear of the unknown.

Try to understand, that not being affected because of the new rules don't help you to realise what you can lose and understand others easily.
I understand just fine what the impact is. Please don't dismiss others' opinions just because they don't stand in the same shoes. I don't need to be hit by a car to understand that that wouldn't be very good for me, to use an analogy/example.

Facts? How, as I said, if the stats, the comparation isn't a fact for you?
They are not. As stated, those are hypotheticals, not genuine analytics. Don't be swayed by posts just because they use numbers and basic arithmetic.

Coming back ,but not so active as before. Can't shut when I read an opinion, that says again and again that we are "resorting to emotional appeals ("I have mouths to feed")". This is~
I am sorry to say that is what the majority of posts that are not for this rule change are opining. "I will literally starve if this rule changes" is not only inaccurate, but completely an appeal to emotion. That is to say, attempting to sway a viewpoint using emotions ("need this to live") instead of facts or rationale.

Thank you for actually responding to what I wrote @AnnVee , instead of calling me a... girl... (what a strange insult!) [EDIT: I'm male for those wondering]
 
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quoting_mungo

Well-Known Member
They very well should delete, if those are the rules. Report any rule-violations. It's the best and easiest way for the site admins to take action. They can't act on what they don't see.
Deleting YCH bases from your gallery has never been a rules requirement. I doubt it would ever be. There have been some rules requiring submissions to each be unique and/or to remove older reminders before posting new ones, but that’s it. Just to be clear. I do agree with the encouragement to report violations when/if you see them, though.

I personally prefer to see artists keep the original sketch/base up in their scraps after posting the finished work. It allows you to get a better idea of what the finished product might look like, if you can compare older bases to the finished counterparts.
 
We don't have to attack her. This should be a way to find something to do what people do and think about it. Nobody should be attacked here. I don't agree with things about what @Lutro says. THAT'S OK I understand what she means. She talks about the fact that people shouldn't lose their heads, which is difficult with the topic. That's why it looks after Lutro that some are so more reactive and who have something that Lutro says what she says she doesn't mean badly she also wants a solution to what's going on here. Otherwise she wouldn't write so much.
 

AnnVee

Anthro Artist
They very well should delete, if those are the rules. Report any rule-violations. It's the best and easiest way for the site admins to take action. They can't act on what they don't see.
Didn't find in the rules that this is a violation, so not sure if it is correct to report for this.
They are not. As stated, those are hypotheticals, not genuine analytics. Don't be swayed by posts just because they use numbers and basic arithmetic.
But this are the FA stats like pafe view, post view, new watchers.
I am sorry to say that is what the majority of posts that are not for this rule change are opining. "I will literally starve if this rule changes" is not only inaccurate, but completely an appeal to emotion. That is to say, attempting to sway a viewpoint using emotions ("need this to live") instead of facts or rationale.
I can say for sure, that if I don't lose all, I lose a big part. I don't want to tell all life stuff, details and what plans and goal will be ruined, not only because this is a personal thing, but because it worth the same as all previous info, maybe more detailed.
I'm happy to have loyal watchers and commissioners, I'm afraid of losing them or being only with a few, cause the years are going, old are leaving and new are coming. Hard to show yourself, especially including the time zone and how rare we can show us and how rare they look at this board.
Mostly I'm worried about my less popular friend - she have not a lot of commissions for all time being here and we both are afraid of losing it at all. I had collabs to help, I maked journals and adv posts (that as I understand now is forbidden too) and it didn't help too much. Mostly she spend all for food or advertising (that are not always the same as reminders).

Also I checked the stats of the adv. Less clicks than some years ago (for me), even my skill is way better.


Thank you for actually responding to what I wrote @AnnVee , instead of calling me a... girl... (what a strange insult!)
No problem
That;s not my type even if I angry (as is was some hours ago)
 

AnnVee

Anthro Artist
I personally prefer to see artists keep the original sketch/base up in their scraps after posting the finished work. It allows you to get a better idea of what the finished product might look like, if you can compare older bases to the finished counterparts.
Keep this as a Step Process for patrons or just watchers, will be more interesting, than having it on your scraps with all bids and other stuff ^^'
 

0-ruff

New Member
Agree new rule had an impact on bids. One time in 8 hours gives low chances for enough number people to see an YCH reminder. Once in 4 hours was fine enough to prevent spam and bring enough money to artists. If any admins see this message plrease do something.
 
I urge the community not to pay attention to such moral freaks as Lutro. I do not share his opinion and do not believe that people should suffer because of someone's whim. In a post, a large amount of real damage from the rule was cited. This person has nothing to do with sales and drawings, his silly message makes it clear that he pursues only personal gain and does not care about the fate of artists and the community as a whole.
 
Hello everyone, I recently registered here (on the forum) and do not know how to change the avatar (it is automatically installed)

About the new rules.
I founded a company of artists so as to attract the attention of foreign customers.
Because of the new rules, it is very inconvenient to distribute the work of 18 artists.

Before when it was possible to set a reminder, I did not feel any problems
previously, there were +-10 orders per week

I really liked to post reminders in different ratings 10-14 pieces every 4 hours+

they were placed in different ratings. Now you need to specify reminders with a red rating(although there are both white and blue, thus losing the attention of people from these works, they are only seen by people who have included an adult rating) for 3 photos every 8 hours

now this activity has already fallen (it's good that there are ads, people come in and see 3 uploaded reminders for albums)
about +-7 orders per week

I suggest that you do the following
  • create a tab where reminders will be placed and new works of artists will be uploaded for sale in the same format as the artist drew them. White, blue, or red depending on which rating is enabled for the user

It would be great if the reminder in this tab could be spread with a difference of 2-4 hours for 10+ reminders

Sorry for my bad English
 

AnnVee

Anthro Artist
It would be nice if they will create smth as YCH.Commishes
Let it work like from new to old for example
 

quoting_mungo

Well-Known Member
Keep this as a Step Process for patrons or just watchers, will be more interesting, than having it on your scraps with all bids and other stuff ^^'
Then how would new customers (the ones you want to appeal to if you want to drum up new business through reminders) be able to compare your sketch to your end product? Comparing the two is how they can get an idea of how the finished product will be building on the sketch. I’m not saying you have to keep them in your gallery if you don’t want to - your gallery is yours to manage as you see fit - just pointing out how limiting access to the YCH bases to Patreon subscribers wouldn’t actually serve the purpose I was talking about.

they were placed in different ratings. Now you need to specify reminders with a red rating(although there are both white and blue, thus losing the attention of people from these works, they are only seen by people who have included an adult rating) for 3 photos every 8 hours
The ratings aspect is the same as it has been since at least 2017. If you’re advertising adult work, the advertisement for that work must be rated adult. If you’re advertising general work, you can and should rate the advertisement general. And so on. If you choose to mix ratings in a single reminder, that’s not on the rules.
 

AnnVee

Anthro Artist
Then how would new customers (the ones you want to appeal to if you want to drum up new business through reminders) be able to compare your sketch to your end product? Comparing the two is how they can get an idea of how the finished product will be building on the sketch. I’m not saying you have to keep them in your gallery if you don’t want to - your gallery is yours to manage as you see fit - just pointing out how limiting access to the YCH bases to Patreon subscribers wouldn’t actually serve the purpose I was talking about.
I meant this (~ 1 year ago): www.furaffinity.net: Step Process of << Glasses >> [gif] by AnnVee (not sure if I can send here any FA link, what if it is like adv)

And no one stop them to post an original done art and the step process near (sometimes). But how it was and how it turned out you can see by being a watcher and looking at YCHs and after at arts, by looking at clones or just 2-5 old undeleted posts...but 300...
 

Growner

New Member
Indeed, the rules affect emerging artists who need support and development. If you don't like ads, why don't you set up a filter? For many people now the task is to develop, and especially if people like it. All right, you don't like ads for non-finished works of art, but who is willing to work for free? All artists want to be thanked for what they do. They embroider particles of the soul in their works, whether it is a novice artist or a professional. Professionals are not born, but become. Regarding the new rules, they affected every fa visitor and especially artists. Understand that with fewer ads for artists, the number of arts will fall, and many people will abandon the site altogether. The site's audience will fall due to less content for viewers, and another site will appear with more opportunities for artists. But we don't need another site. We love the FA for what it is, but should the administration tighten the rules for artists if this leads to a loss of site traffic? I ask the site administration to think about it and change the rules in the right direction.
 

Lutro

Writer
Indeed, the rules affect emerging artists who need support and development. If you don't like ads, why don't you set up a filter?
You can't just set up a filter to ignore ads posted as submissions. There's some advanced stuff few know how to do with custom scripts and tools, but by and large this capability is beyond most users.

For many people now the task is to develop, and especially if people like it. All right, you don't like ads for non-finished works of art, but who is willing to work for free? All artists want to be thanked for what they do. They embroider particles of the soul in their works, whether it is a novice artist or a professional. Professionals are not born, but become.
You are more than free to pay for advertising on this site and others, being an emerging artist. Not being able to post as many (but still several) per day is not going to make or break you. Your content will. If your content does not garner interest over the course of months, despite watchers/followers increasing, that is not FA's fault. FA does a lot to give emerging artists a leg up, and reminder spam is not one of them (nor is it that impactful in the grand scheme of things).

Regarding the new rules, they affected every fa visitor and especially artists. Understand that with fewer ads for artists, the number of arts will fall, and many people will abandon the site altogether. The site's audience will fall due to less content for viewers, and another site will appear with more opportunities for artists.
Complete unfounded conjecture that goes against any actual analytics and site traffic data presented over the past decade. This "sky is falling" narrative needs to stop, now. Present evidence for these extraordinary claims, or stop insinuating it happens. This is fearmongering without a basis in reality.
 

Doberman_Moralist

New Member
You can't just set up a filter to ignore ads posted as submissions. There's some advanced stuff few know how to do with custom scripts and tools, but by and large this capability is beyond most users.


You are more than free to pay for advertising on this site and others, being an emerging artist. Not being able to post as many (but still several) per day is not going to make or break you. Your content will. If your content does not garner interest over the course of months, despite watchers/followers increasing, that is not FA's fault. FA does a lot to give emerging artists a leg up, and reminder spam is not one of them (nor is it that impactful in the grand scheme of things).


Complete unfounded conjecture that goes against any actual analytics and site traffic data presented over the past decade. This "sky is falling" narrative needs to stop, now. Present evidence for these extraordinary claims, or stop insinuating it happens. This is fearmongering without a basis in reality.

I'm the person who scored 4,000 subscribers with the help of reminders for 2 years, and you want to tell me that reminders are not effective? Stop saying nonsense.
 

DoctorKroll

New Member
You can't just set up a filter to ignore ads posted as submissions. There's some advanced stuff few know how to do with custom scripts and tools, but by and large this capability is beyond most users.


You are more than free to pay for advertising on this site and others, being an emerging artist. Not being able to post as many (but still several) per day is not going to make or break you. Your content will. If your content does not garner interest over the course of months, despite watchers/followers increasing, that is not FA's fault. FA does a lot to give emerging artists a leg up, and reminder spam is not one of them (nor is it that impactful in the grand scheme of things).


Complete unfounded conjecture that goes against any actual analytics and site traffic data presented over the past decade. This "sky is falling" narrative needs to stop, now. Present evidence for these extraordinary claims, or stop insinuating it happens. This is fearmongering without a basis in reality.
bring me evidence of statistics for 10 years or get out of here
 

Ganjaman

New Member
I consider that the new rules are made so that people have no choice and they give the administration money for meaningless advertising. They are trying to manipulate us, leaving us no other choice. I think the new rules are contrary to common sense. Now on the site it is impossible to advertise yourself and your creativity. The advertising that the site offers completely doesn't justify its price. They just want to pump money out of us. They are embittered by the fact that they cannot get a percentage of sales. The return of the old rules requires radical action. The personal benefit of the administration is put above our convenience and the ability to use this site. DON'T LET YOURSELF CHEAT!
 

Lutro

Writer
I'm the person who scored 4,000 subscribers with the help of reminders for 2 years, and you want to tell me that reminders are not effective? Stop saying nonsense.
It's not that they're ineffective. Stop putting words in folks' mouths.

What I am saying is that a reduction of reminders is not going to make such a follower gain impossible going forward. That's the nonsense: This all-or-nothing malarkey based on this rule change when it exists in a clear middle ground.

bring me evidence of statistics for 10 years or get out of here

I staked no claims and the burden is not on me to prove you wrong. (But since you asked! FA has made many controversial "this is bad for artists!!!!" changes over the years. The site's still here. There isn't another "this is the new FA" site. Examples alone are proof positive.) Prove your own claims.
 
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