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a request to rethink. From the Rules

Did you record losses under the new regulation?

  • Yes and How tell us in the commens

  • No If not tell us how and how you deal with it


Results are only viewable after voting.
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Raever

Chaotic Neutral Wreckage
The sad thing is that this affect this people, who makes it normally and not too often. Like once a 4-5 hours. And who violate the rules continue to do it.

1. Not everyone does what I do, I was just answering your questions, so try not to take it as an overall rule as - such as said in the post - I'm only speaking for myself there.

2. I don't mind "normal" reminders. I just don't consider every four hours normal.

Even when watching tv back when commercials in between shows were a thing people had to deal with (I feel old lol) I'd see the same ad 1 to 3 times - maybe four if it was a really persistent one, or just one of those weird 5 second black screen things (anyone else remember those...? Just me? Okay lol).

3. You mention this as if people are violating the rules, and that it's justified...I feel like that alone just needs repeating lol

Are you getting paid for all this rubbish?

Being paid for giving my opinion and backing it up with logic and reason? Oh man, I wish. Unfortunately I'm not a furry rant channel on youtube so...

these pathetic attempts to justify the unfounded
You will ignore the damage done to the artists, putting forward arguments like "you feel better, this is not a problem for you, I sold it for a hobby, I'm fine."

If you think that of all things is my argument then you clearly have not read any of my posts. Therefore, I won't bother clarifying for you - as it's clear you only wish for emotional validation (or drama).

Moving on.

If you do not care about a group of artists who have suffered from the new rules. where did you get the idea that tomorrow some other group of people in the FA will not suffer? What sane person will raise a feeling of annoyance from reminders and close his eyes to serious losses for people?

Similar to the above, this is overall unrelated to what I had said and is an emotional reaction. I apologize for your feelings of hurt, but I am not the source that your hurt should be directed at.

Moving on.

I laugh from your stupid comparisons, the fa is a unique platform with a unique economic system. all here were happy artists and shoppers. from a convenient sales system you made a resource suitable only for mediocre artists and people with special fetishes

1. FA has economic purpose but does not serve as a primary economic platform/selling system (such as Ebay, for example) even if some artists tend to use it as such, so your point is moot.

2. Many artists can, do, and will still thrive here both old and new. To call those people mediocre is not backed by any facts, and is only insulting to your fellow artist.

3. Also, not to state the already stated but, you're also insulting commissioners saying whoever buys art now is just doing so for sexual purposes. There are a lot of clean artists and clean commissioners out there who deserve the same respect as you do. Please remember this.

@Reaver
you write this because you didn’t suffer in any way, if you were among us, you would cry plaintively and ask for mercy. do not disgrace and do not waste time on all the nonsense you wrote

If I were among you, I'd still have the logic that I'm using now. You imply that this change took away your ability to think - and that's quite worrisome. Not to mention, if I were among you, I'd be on other platforms. So even if FA did effect me on a personal level, it wouldn't effect me in the way being complained about. I'd find a way to continue with my career. As all should.

The banners and ads are useless because many people are traveling with ad blockers

I hear this a lot. Frankly, my ad blocker doesn't remove FA's ads. I don't have FA white listed either (though I would if it did as I like looking at the ads most of the time). Still, I honestly don't know how many ad blockers don't effect FA, but mine is one of the most downloaded ones so...I'll leave this as something to digest a bit.

But I didn't really find those that came close to the crowd besides Devienart

I think the biggest issue is that people think FA won't still serve as marketing, and it can and will do so. Doubly so if you share things regularly in the forum such as in the sketchbook section. You don't have to --- but there isn't anything wrong with just showing off what you create, right? That should be the main purpose of an artist based website/community anyway (Imo). I could say more about the above but...I don't think I need to.

a second at 2h would be crazy that nobody wants either at 4h again

If you follow a hundred active artists who post YCH - hell even just fifty - and you go by previous setup, that's 200 reminders in a single day assuming they take advantage of the 4 hours whenever they're awake, and choose to sleep 8 hours like an average human on top of that.

If they're posting gods or they have occasional help with their advertising, it would be a total of 300 reminders a day. This is only from 50 artists, most people follow 100 to 200 or more (which would be 400 at minimum to 1,200 at maximum if they were still choosing to take advantage of that every 4 hour rule).

That's just assuming they follow the rules to a T and take advantage whenever they can, which is what I assume most of the artists here claim to do (otherwise losing time wouldn't be a valid argument).

That, imo, is crazy and is absolutely spam by every sense of the word. FA has hundreds of thousands of artists, all of which who would like to advertise. I don't even wanna try to do the math for something outside of a favorite artists submissions section.

If we were in the browsing section and everyone was taking advantage of that 4 hour rule...?

Just for shits and giggles here, let's say FA has a total of 100,000 users (based on its forum and login numbers we know it's FAR more than that but let's just be generous).

If those 100,000 slept eight hours but took advantage of that 4 hour rule, it would be a total of 400,000 advertisements minimum. If they're posting gods it would be around 600,000.

Moving the time limit up by four hours gives breathing room mathematically speaking.
 

Raever

Chaotic Neutral Wreckage
The current rules are a real infringement of rights.

Not really.
Again, no one is entitled to anything on FA.
It's a luxury, not a necessity.

Lot of stuff happened overnight! Let's cleanse the nonsense away:
To those being impacted: Calm down. Stop resorting to emotional appeals ("I have mouths to feed") as if getting 30 seconds of advertising (going by "each reminder is only a few seconds per post") instead of 60. If you are truly in that sort of peril the onus is on you to do something about it. FA is not your social safety net. It is a furry art gallery web site. Grow up.
@RatCult13 This rule change is an infringement of precisely zero rights. Either cite the relevant laws or don't suggest such tripe. It's one thing to be upset. It's another to go "this web site is committing a crime" (which rights-infringement would be). Put a stop to that hogwash right now, as it contributes nothing to the conversation other than more hand-wringing based on non-facts.
I've seen several "oh so you don't care about artists then" posts from people who don't like the rule change. Shut your traps. Five pages and the bulk of the argument against these rules is "I did hypothetical math and I'll be homeless soon" or "wow clearly you don't care about me because you see how little this change actually affects people." You're appealing to emotion and just trying to paint everyone who doesn't agree with you as overtly evil without addressing points brought up.
Similarly "who paid you to write this" is poppycock. If someone doesn't agree with you that doesn't mean they're corrupt or being influenced by The Man to write something. Unless you're citing evidence to contradict said posts, their posts are just as valid as yours.
An artist's success/popularity is driven by their content and capability, not by how often or frequent they can spam YCH/reminders of things. There are a boatload of factors that go into general success, and I guarantee you being able to spam more times per day is absolutely not one of them.
Annoyance of advertising being strictly "sentimental" is a laughable accusation to make, considering the bulk of points going the other way are just that: Emotional, not based in reality (the change has hardly been in effect, so there's literally 0 hard evidence about anyone losing much of anything -- hypothetical math is just that: Hypothetical).
Additionally, so much flooding can actually cause a downturn in sales, because literal seconds does not translate to valid impressions. "Annoyance doesn't compare to our own plight" is an invalid dismissal. What if there's a downtick in gallery viewing because the gallery becomes so full of ads that users don't browse that way anymore? Played yourself there. [Don't think this is true? It has just as much hypothetical validity as all the "I'll lose everything if I can't spam stuff" idiocy I've been seeing suggested time and time again.]
A treasure trove of suggestions and advice have been given in this thread for those in true dire need to do art to sustain their current livelihood. This post even explains a lot of them. Brushing all of that aside just to 'be right' shows you either aren't actually in that situation, or genuinely do not care. Dismissing proved-to-work concepts like "use more than one web site", "use social media" et al because you think or assume it won't work is immature. And if you're actually hanging by the thread of YCH/reminders to live, you ought to be ashamed of yourself. If you're that desperate you should be seizing every opportunity to try and expand your horizons to achieve better results, not wantonly ignoring them because "then I'd be wrong."
I am going to block/ignore any user that quotes me with stupid "you don't care" or other put-words-in-mouth codswallop. Also those who will reply with other strawmanning "oh so artists' lives don't matter" rubbish. Thread has enough of those sub-conversations, and they're contributing nothing. If you do want to reply, please address the points with something empirical, not appeals to the heart. Use the brain or resources to construct counter-points, not spur-of-the-moment rage inspired from being shown that you may, in fact, be incorrect about something.

I agree with all of this 100%, and not because you agreed with me, but because you're one of few people talking sense here lol.


From when did you take on the role of judge here. Shut your mouth and get out of here.

Everyone has a right to express themselves here, just because you don't agree with it doesn't mean it makes someone appear as a judge and jury of your woes. We're all equals.

Sorry for bad English, I use a translator
I hope my idea is clear

While I somewhat disagree, you expressed your opinion very well and I completely respect it. Thank you for being one of the individuals that respect others during this odd time lol.

Get out of here. You just shake the air. Obviously, your task here is to justify the actions of the administration. so try to get your tongue out of your ass and, as a rule, argue for the first time why there should be no reminders of the FA and why people should suffer because of this. you are good not to leave the image of a little girl

Gonna use your post as a way to state that if anyone debates like you (ie. Blatantly insulting someone regularly) they're being blocked due to their incapability of keeping a cool head, lol.

I'm the person who scored 4,000 subscribers with the help of reminders for 2 years

I remember you.

I wound up un-watching you because every journal you made that I saw (over five in under three months) was you begging people for money because your art wasn't selling enough by itself. This isn't said maliciously - just my personal experience with your (mostly journal but sometimes YCH) alerts as I recognize the username and icon. Therefore, I wouldn't necessarily put you as the best example, but that's just me.

I'm in no way meaning to shame you, and I of course do not have Screenshots as at the time I never bothered to take them. So this is the only biased thing I'll state, and EVERYONE should take this response with a grain of salt, and ask this artist's current watchers for clarification regarding this to see if they remember/can backup my experience (if you really wanna go sleuthing lol). Point is, I'm just stating an experience. Take this as you will.

Edit: I looked into your profile and noticed all the journals that plagued me are gone, but your profile - which has not been updated since I +watched you over six months ago is still carrying the same tune that your journals did...

I can't help but feel someone who had such success with reminders wouldn't be outwardly begging like this for over half a year...but that's just an assumption any logical person would make. Since success = not in the hardship described. I understand that $5 isn't $5,000 but your art isn't cheap and I would assume success would be a big deal for you.

Again, this isn't meant to be seen as an attack, it just feels like you're being a bit dishonest to me. Though, I could always be wrong and I'd be happy to be so!

That said...

I would also like statistics please.
For factual purposes.
 

Raever

Chaotic Neutral Wreckage
I consider that the new rules are made so that people have no choice and they give the administration money for meaningless advertising.

Possibly? Maybe.
Probably? This logic is laughable.

They are trying to manipulate us, leaving us no other choice. I think the new rules are contrary to common sense. Now on the site it is impossible to advertise yourself and your creativity.

They haven't removed the ability to advertise oneself, so your statement is factually incorrect. You have two less seconds. It's honestly not as huge as you feel it is. Is it a problem for business? It can be. Are there ways to fix it outside of whining? Absolutely.

The advertising that the site offers completely doesn't justify its price.

The site isn't forcing you to buy their advertisement banners, you can still advertise. Just not as often. Also, it doesn't have to justify its price - it exists for its userbase first and its sellers second. This has been stated before. They wanted to remove Spam levels and they did. It's the artists job to find a way around that, as they are not responsible for anyone or anything but their own website. This may sound cruel, but that really is the cold reality of it.

They just want to pump money out of us. They are embittered by the fact that they cannot get a percentage of sales. The return of the old rules requires radical action. The personal benefit of the administration is put above our convenience and the ability to use this site. DON'T LET YOURSELF CHEAT!

Pretty sure this is inaccurate since not a lot of artists to begin with saw value in banners and I doubt they'll start doing so now. Banners are nice, but aren't a necessity for growth. In fact the biggest artists grow through bigger artists giving them a shout. For example, Lingrimm (probably butchered that name) brought attention to an AMAZING animator that beforehand didn't recieve much praise. Now they're doing well, albeit they're still creating things for themselves first and foremost. A user or two even admitted coming over due to Lingrimm's praises. I think artists who help each other are more likely to be successful, than artists who spam each other. That's just me though --- since the second best way I find artists is through other favorited artists fave art section.
 

Doberman_Moralist

New Member
Not really.
Again, no one is entitled to anything on FA.
It's a luxury, not a necessity.



I agree with all of this 100%, and not because you agreed with me, but because you're one of few people talking sense here lol.




Everyone has a right to express themselves here, just because you don't agree with it doesn't mean it makes someone appear as a judge and jury of your woes. We're all equals.



While I somewhat disagree, you expressed your opinion very well and I completely respect it. Thank you for being one of the individuals that respect others during this odd time lol.



Gonna use your post as a way to state that if anyone debates like you (ie. Blatantly insulting someone regularly) they're being blocked due to their incapability of keeping a cool head, lol.



I remember you.

I wound up un-watching you because every journal you made that I saw (over five in under three months) was you begging people for money because your art wasn't selling enough by itself. This isn't said maliciously - just my personal experience with your (mostly journal but sometimes YCH) alerts as I recognize the username and icon. Therefore, I wouldn't necessarily put you as the best example, but that's just me.

I'm in no way meaning to shame you, and I of course do not have Screenshots as at the time I never bothered to take them. So this is the only biased thing I'll state, and EVERYONE should take this response with a grain of salt, and ask this artist's current watchers for clarification regarding this to see if they remember/can backup my experience (if you really wanna go sleuthing lol). Point is, I'm just stating an experience. Take this as you will.

Edit: I looked into your profile and noticed all the journals that plagued me are gone, but your profile - which has not been updated since I +watched you over six months ago is still carrying the same tune that your journals did...

I can't help but feel someone who had such success with reminders wouldn't be outwardly begging like this for over half a year...but that's just an assumption any logical person would make. Since success = not in the hardship described. I understand that $5 isn't $5,000 but your art isn't cheap and I would assume success would be a big deal for you.

Again, this isn't meant to be seen as an attack, it just feels like you're being a bit dishonest to me. Though, I could always be wrong and I'd be happy to be so!

That said...

I would also like statistics please.
For factual purposes.
Of course, I can provide statistics, but how?
 
D

Deleted member 134556

Guest
@Reaver
you write this because you didn’t suffer in any way, if you were among us, you would cry plaintively and ask for mercy. do not disgrace and do not waste time on all the nonsense you wrote
Why are you a stupid little girl, you can speak on behalf of the community and the site. From when did you take on the role of judge here. Shut your mouth and get out of here. People give real arguments, and you only evade answers. The site is dying, artists are losing money. All your messages are empty talk with a call to simply put up with what is happening.
Oh little girl doesn't like advertising, what a pity. Go cry under your mother’s skirt.
the only reason you write all this shit is you got no damage. so stand aside and listen to other people with real problems. I advise you to study the rules of economics before writing all the nonsense that you allow yourself.
@Lutro
Get out of here. You just shake the air. Obviously, your task here is to justify the actions of the administration. so try to get your tongue out of your ass and, as a rule, argue for the first time why there should be no reminders of the FA and why people should suffer because of this. you are good not to leave the image of a little girl
I urge the community not to pay attention to such moral freaks as Lutro. I do not share his opinion and do not believe that people should suffer because of someone's whim. In a post, a large amount of real damage from the rule was cited. This person has nothing to do with sales and drawings, his silly message makes it clear that he pursues only personal gain and does not care about the fate of artists and the community as a whole.
Imagine needing to use insults, malicious accusations, call outs, and personal attacks to argue with a kid because you disagree with them on a forum.
 

Raever

Chaotic Neutral Wreckage
Of course, I can provide statistics, but how?

I can't say any feasible way as FA doesn't have much in the way of tracking. You might be able to use your Alerts if you happen to never clear them, contact watchers to see if they can note when they watched you (super tedious I know), or use a wayback machine to see if that might track progress somehow? Those are the best guesses I have off the top of my head.

Imagine needing to use insults, malicious accusations, call outs, and personal attacks to argue with a 14 year old kid because you disagree with them

Furries are like apples, you have the good ones...and then there's these guys lol
 

malivaughn

New Member
I didn’t see any sense or usefulness in those new rules. Is there anyone who get any help from that changes? Like, for artists, who supports their families, making YCH selling on FA:)

UPD. I just find the only who got profit from this - admins, because reminders is a free way of advertising, that is unprofitable for them
 

Raever

Chaotic Neutral Wreckage
I didn’t see any sense or usefulness in those new rules. Is there anyone who get any help from that changes? Like, for artists, who supports their families, making YCH selling on FA:)

UPD. I just find the only who got profit from this - admins, because reminders is a free way of advertising, that is unprofitable for them

I'm just blatantly curious, here. With the previous rules, how many reminders did you post in a singular day?
 

AnnVee

Anthro Artist
Here are the stats of my friend
upload_2020-5-12_18-17-41.png

So, new watchers: 5 (from 134 clicks) and 30-45 from 408 clicks
..............................(1 week)........................(3 weeks)....................

This is a 60$ banner. It should work like this?

UPD: as I said around 1 year ago I got 150-200 watchers, 2 years ago it was 300-350 watchers.
Prices alsa were 60$ 1 year ago and 100$ 2 years ago
 

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Raever

Chaotic Neutral Wreckage
Here are the stats of my friend
View attachment 86581
So, new watchers: 5 (from 134 clicks) and 30-45 from 408 clicks
..............................(1 week)........................(3 weeks)....................

This is a 60$ banner. It should work like this?

UPD: as I said around 1 year ago I got 150-200 watchers, 2 years ago it was 300-350 watchers.
Prices alsa were 60$ 1 year ago and 100$ 2 years ago

Thank you, this is lovely!
I love visual stuff like this.

Anyway, so to clarify...

In total you're saying that you've lost about $40 since the rule change, right? Wouldn't that mean adjusting something on your end to account for the change of market? People who invest in stocks do this often to prevent profit loss.

Also based upon the numbers provided...we know that there will be some drop, as that comes with a lowering of views, but to me (a lowly pleb) that still looks like a large amount of numbers to get each week. Can someone more experienced with this sort of thing slide in? As I'm not familiar with what should be normal, especially since I feel quality of ad on top of quality of art, etc. plays a vital role.
 

HeartlineDai

New Member
Personal opinion - I do get annoyed when the entirety of my FA front page is taken up floods of reminders and YCH ads, especially when I'm seeing exactly the same ones multiple times daily across multiple accounts, and I do very much wish there was a way to filter all of these out of the feed when I just want to see new and finished works.

The best way I can think of this being done in a way that could satisfy both parties is if a separate feed for reminders or YCH auctions was created, (like say similar to how writing and audio have their own separate feeds) allowing users who would be interested to look through them and maybe even search by them as a search criteria. I would like to think that the general viewing audience don't have an issue with artists doing what they can to make a living, but it does make the experience of the general user (the people artists are trying to attract) frustrating when these reminders are drowning out all the content they originally joined for.

On the subject of artists who are upset, I do understand the plight that these new rules do make things more difficult especially when there are livelihoods that need to be supported. Unfortunately, those arguing that FA is not a resource that should be relied on are completely correct. Endless arguments can be made either for or against a change in the rules that apply to users, but despite all that it doesn't change the fact that the final decision on the rules or how things are run ultimately lies with FurAffinity, who is a free to run things however they choose. There is simply legal obligation there (an argument could be made they have a moral obligation, but read on).

Whilst many people have built livelihoods on the work they do through FA, the onus is not on FA should that source of income suddenly dry up. If FA were suddenly wiped from the internet because they couldn't afford to keep the servers running, then that would suck, but they can't be responsible for compensating its users for lost sales. It is by definition a completely free to use platform that its members are free to use as they please provided they follow the rules in place. So with that in mind, FA being a free-to-use platform for its users comes with all the pitfalls of it being a free-to-use platform, including the site's ability to change as it sees fit. It isn't like a paid service where a user would be within their right to stop using and paying the service if it no longer provided what the user wanted from it.

YouTube for example is the largest content-driven website online. Anyone can sign up for a channel with them for free and even make money off of their content through their monetisation scheme. However, there is still frequently ire from the creative community about how monetisation funds are drying up in light of removal of certain features or implementation of certain rules. Rules that YouTube are absolutely free to make (it sucks, but that's the rules of the game). Yet despite all of that, the creators are still there and just adapt either through getting external sponsorship or whatever.

I suppose the Tl;dr here is: No matter what your personal circumstances are, FA unfortunately has no obligation (legal or otherwise) to change its policies if it feels certain user behaviour is detrimental to the overall user experience it wants to provide.
 
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Raever

Chaotic Neutral Wreckage
Personal opinion - I do get annoyed when the entirety of my FA front page is taken up floods of reminders and YCH ads, especially when I'm seeing exactly the same ones multiple times daily across multiple accounts, and I do very much wish there was a way to filter all of these out of the feed when I just want to see new and finished works.

The best way I can think of this being done in a way that could satisfy both parties is if a separate feed for reminders or YCH auctions was created, (like say similar to how writing and audio have their own separate feeds) allowing users who would be interested to look through them and maybe even search by them as a search criteria. I would like to think that the general viewing audience don't have an issue with artists doing what they can to make a living, but it does make the experience of the general user (the people artists are trying to attract) frustrating when these reminders are drowning out all the content they originally joined for.

On the subject of artists who are upset, I do understand the plight that these new rules do make things more difficult especially when there are livelihoods that need to be supported. Unfortunately, those arguing that FA is not a resource that should be relied on are completely correct. Endless arguments can be made either for or against a change in the rules that apply to users, but despite all that it doesn't change the fact that the final decision on the rules or how things are run ultimately lies with FurAffinity, who is a free to run things however they choose. There is simply legal obligation there (an argument could be made they have a moral obligation, but read on).

Whilst many people have built livelihoods on the work they do through FA, the onus is not on FA should that source of income suddenly dry up. It is by definition a completely free to use platform that its members are free to use as they please provided they follow the rules in place. So with that in mind, FA being a free-to-use platform for its users comes with all the pitfalls of it being a free-to-use platform, including the site's ability to change as it sees fit. It isn't like a paid service where a user would be within their right to stop using and paying the service if it no longer provided what the user wanted from it.

YouTube for example is the largest content-driven website online. Anyone can sign up for a channel with them for free and even make money off of their content through their monetisation scheme. However, there is still frequently ire from the creative community about how monetisation funds are drying up in light of removal of certain features or implementation of certain rules. Rules that YouTube are absolutely free to make (it sucks, but that's the rules of the game). Yet despite all of that, the creators are still there and just adapt either through getting external sponsorship or whatever.

I suppose the Tl;dr here is: No matter what your personal circumstances are, FA unfortunately has no obligation (legal or otherwise) to change its policies if it feels certain user behaviour is detrimental to the overall user experience it wants to provide.

10/10 facts right there.
 

AnnVee

Anthro Artist
In total you're saying that you've lost about $40 since the rule change, right? Wouldn't that mean adjusting something on your end to account for the change of market? People who invest in stocks do this often to prevent profit loss.

If I told smth about 40$ it was about that the difference in banners prices 2 years ago and now are 40$, but in watchers is 100-200 watchers (from 300 watchers with 100$ banners).
I guess here is the other problem - more banners (because of a low price ) - less times you appear and get attention on advertising.
I remember that 2 years ago, when it was 100$ a big banner there were 5-6 banners only. Now they are around 15-20.
So in advertising the problems are:
1. Too much banners (and logic that if the prices are lower the banners are way more appearing )
2. Someone have adblocks
3. Not always paying attention and it's not a fact that will see the artist. Like how often we scroll the page to look at the adv? ><

After reading the opinions I understood how it work for you with reminders. So, if the 4 hours is not good for you, but 8 hours not good for us, maybe the admins cat do something like: once a 6 hours + up to 10 reminders.
Personally I don't have more than 4 sales usually
My friend have max 5. We don't afford more or get tired of the old and draw smth new. So maybe we all can find a perfect way for both sides?
 

AnnVee

Anthro Artist
The best way I can think of this being done in a way that could satisfy both parties is if a separate feed for reminders or YCH auctions was created, (like say similar to how writing and audio have their own separate feeds) allowing users who would be interested to look through them and maybe even search by them as a search criteria. I would like to think that the general viewing audience don't have an issue with artists doing what they can to make a living, but it does make the experience of the general user (the people artists are trying to attract) frustrating when these reminders are drowning out all the content they originally joined for.

Yes, I think it is a cool idea. We can choose the category, because just writing it on the Title is not always working (filters on the main search are not always good).
But how we can be sure that now this section will not be mostly ignored? Or it will work the same as now but without annoying anyone?
 

Raever

Chaotic Neutral Wreckage
So maybe we all can find a perfect way for both sides?

This would be the ideal end goal.
A question of how is on the table for all who would like to make any other suggestions. Mine was already made awhile back but as stated by some users above, organization might not be a great solution to sales either. So I'm fresh outta ideas that would equally benefit everyone. :/

Yes, I think it is a cool idea. We can choose the category, because just writing it on the Title is not always working (filters on the main search are not always good).
But how we can be sure that now this section will not be mostly ignored? Or it will work the same as now but without annoying anyone?

Exactly.
 

quoting_mungo

Well-Known Member
As someone who has been part of the policy making on FA in the past, while I cannot give specific examples of what was said and discussed at that time due to NDA, I will say this about the generalities of my experience:

Rules are generally adjusted for one of three or so reasons:
- User complaints
- To clarify existing policy, close loopholes, or address misuse of site resources
- Adjustments with consideration to how staff sees the site actually used

In this case, my money’s on the first - a lot of users were fed up with the number of reminders they were seeing. I understand that some artists are upset about this change. But artists who aren’t selling YCH auctions or adoptables might well see it as an improvement to not have to compete for front page seconds with quite so many reminders. People who are here to look at art may be happy to see a bit less of the ads. It sucks that this change might hurt your bottom line, but it’s important to understand that your experience will not be universal.

Accusing site management of changing this policy maliciously is not a very compelling argument. It just makes you look like a bitter, hostile person. Most likely they’re trying to find a middle ground that allows artists to advertise while reducing the levels of non-content submissions. (Yes, I’m going to call any submission that exists to be removed and whose only purpose is to direct people to another submission devoid of content. It does not exist on its own merit but as a way of essentially putting the same original submission on the front page multiple times via a proxy.)
 
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AnnVee

Anthro Artist
I suppose the Tl;dr here is: No matter what your personal circumstances are, FA unfortunately has no obligation (legal or otherwise) to change its policies if it feels certain user behaviour is detrimental to the overall user experience it wants to provide.
But we still can ask for reviewing it, for making something perfect for both sides? Especially if here appears a lot of ideas. We are upset and think what to do, it makes all harder so we try at least to try to don't lose too much.
 

Rayd

bullshit detective
to all the people with their only argument over and over talking about how they struggle to pay bills and struggle to feed themselves and others because they're unprepared to do freelancing as a full-time job, i'll say this one last time. -

you're irresponsible as fuck. i do not feel bad. your problems are not FA's problems. nobody is ignoring your issues, and nobody is saying nor implying that they do not care. we're saying that maybe you should try resolving your problems yourselves like adults would instead of telling an entire website to accommodate for you when it owes you nothing. you saying you're struggling financially is not an argument, it just shows how blatantly unprepared you are to take on freelancing full-time. it's not FA's fault you are in your situation, but your's alone. instead of saying we don't care and throwing insults around, you should work on either adapting to the changes, or...

 

AnnVee

Anthro Artist
you're irresponsible as fuck.
You are rude as fuck.
At the end (at least I) agree with others, but try to find and support any idea by others to find the gold middle. And if I tell about my problems is to EXPLAIN why it is so bad for me to don't post reminders as before.
Find a way to don't call us somehow if you don't know us (or at least me).
adapting to the changes, or...
I have Patreon and lucky to me that is going good now (not as a year ago when I deleted it because even I was active and posted all my patrons just left it).
Find a job? Nice okay.
What I have to do, if I have not money for a advocate, when the boss kick my ass out after a free work month (free, because he didn't paid and what I can do).
I didn't finished the studies to get a normal paid job and all I can is going to work for 150$ a month (that is only for food for me).

And I always knew that this is not their fault, that this is not permanent... but I have no right to be upset about this changes and to try with all others there to find a way to make it perfect for any of us?
 

Pipistrele

Smart batto!
While I agree that new policy could benefit from some tweaks here and there, I'll play the Devil's advocate and say that I'm mostly in support of it. As a long time FA user, while I don't mind reminders in mild numbers (a good way to find interesting artists and support them monetarily), I'll confirm that situation with adverts in gallery became obviously ridiculous, to the point where on busier days all the little "ad pecks" could overwhelm the actual original artwork. In all honesty, it's one of the reasons why I fell off FA over time.

If anything, gallery was originally designed for artists to showcase artwork, and not for freelancer artists to push sales - as @Aprilycan underlined it before, FA staff shouldn't hold responsibility for artists overrelying on what was essentially a glorified loophole.
 

Ovidia Dragoness

Udder Derg
Banned
To all the peoole who think the artists affected are irresponsible, I hope no artist is ever willing to work with you again. If you are seriously that much of a douche to call people who draw your fancy sonas and crap irresponsible for wanting to follow their dreams, you don't deserve any of it.
 

Lutro

Writer
To all the peoole who think the artists affected are irresponsible, I hope no artist is ever willing to work with you again. If you are seriously that much of a douche to call people who draw your fancy sonas and crap irresponsible for wanting to follow their dreams, you don't deserve any of it.
This cuts both ways. You're being just as rude and dismissive in the other direction.

In fact, this entire thread I don't think you've contributed a single thing, except to make a passive aggressive (or active aggressive) comment or strawman remark.

(Case in point -- no-one is saying "if an artist is affected, they're irresponsible.")
 

Ovidia Dragoness

Udder Derg
Banned
to all the people with their only argument over and over talking about how they struggle to pay bills and struggle to feed themselves and others because they're unprepared to do freelancing as a full-time job, i'll say this one last time. -

you're irresponsible as fuck. i do not feel bad. your problems are not FA's problems. nobody is ignoring your issues, and nobody is saying nor implying that they do not care. we're saying that maybe you should try resolving your problems yourselves like adults would instead of telling an entire website to accommodate for you when it owes you nothing. you saying you're struggling financially is not an argument, it just shows how blatantly unprepared you are to take on freelancing full-time. it's not FA's fault you are in your situation, but your's alone. instead of saying we don't care and throwing insults around, you should work on either adapting to the changes, or...

This cuts both ways. You're being just as rude and dismissive in the other direction.

In fact, this entire thread I don't think you've contributed a single thing, except to make a passive aggressive (or active aggressive) comment or strawman remark.

(Case in point -- no-one is saying "if an artist is affected, they're irresponsible.")
Here you go.
 

RoxyHana

Princess Bunny ♥
It didn't affect me at all because I was only uploading a reminder 1 time per day and sometimes not even that because I forgot, and my reminders are different than the originals as well so no issue there either.
I still think reminders are important, sometimes people might be interested in an YCH but since they don't see it in main page... they don't even know they exist.

As suggestions I would say:

- An YCH/Comms section in main page
- A RANDOM publications sections (not latest posts! Show random posts every time you refresh the page, that's one of my favourite things to discover new artists to follow!)
 
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