a request to rethink. From the Rules

[Doberman_Moralist]

Let's talk about facts:
Reminders give advertise only 3 ychs per day. The main activity is when someone comes only at night. For a night you can lay out only 3 pieces in 8 hours. When you have more than 10 ychs, you cannot sell them. The way out of the situation is more reminders at night or an increase in the allowed number of reminders. So you can see not 10 seconds, but 2 times more. The point is in number of published, and not only in the gap between these..
A big minus of the new rule is the inability of the administration to remove violators. All my complaints were ignored by the administration. Only a few received an answer in which there was an answer that they could not do anything. Violators receive great privileges, because they lose their competition and can be in sight of all the time.
And it's hard for me to blame them, because there is no alternative for development. Rules limit the market without giving anything new. Therefore, I consider these rules to be a mistake.
Perhaps they would be effective in combination with something that would give alternatives without losing and would not allow violators to get all the attention and take away this opportunity from other artists.

 

[Rayd]

What gives you confidence in your innocence? What makes you feel that your opinion is correct if you close yourself from other opinions?

the thing is that i'm not closing myself from other opinions, i already heard his opinion 10 times already, i didn't need to hear it another 10 times. we've already explained how we feel and he was just replying with the same anti-point over and over, so why wouldn't we block him?

 

[Ganjaman]

You can make sure that users who are in no way connected with sales and that they have not felt the consequences of the rules oppose the reminders. it’s the same if the white man convinced the black man that he wasn’t infringed in any way and that there wasn’t any mass contempt and hatred on him because the white man didn’t experience it, and any complaints what he made were a sentimental argument. I am very glad that people like you were not involved in world historical events.
you are trying to shut us up, calling people to close their eyes to the problems of others. but why do you think this section was created? here are complaints and suggestions. We complain and offer. You clutter up serious discussions with meaningless speeches and enter into disputes with people who came just to express their opinion. I am sorry that I have to share this community with such people.
ps. I wish all artists to stick together and hope for the best. we must be heard.

 

[ShizuMoh]

to all the people with their only argument over and over talking about how they struggle to pay bills and struggle to feed themselves and others because they're unprepared to do freelancing as a full-time job, i'll say this one last time. -

you're irresponsible as fuck. i do not feel bad. your problems are not FA's problems. nobody is ignoring your issues, and nobody is saying nor implying that they do not care. we're saying that maybe you should try resolving your problems yourselves like adults would instead of telling an entire website to accommodate for you when it owes you nothing. you saying you're struggling financially is not an argument, it just shows how blatantly unprepared you are to take on freelancing full-time. it's not FA's fault you are in your situation, but your's alone. instead of saying we don't care and throwing insults around, you should work on either adapting to the changes, or...

Aaaand trying to get money for drawing is irresponsible? I've been in FA around a year, and honestly without this grand help from the page and my customers I would have starved to death, not even joking. In my country the salary per month is 4 USD, what do I do with that? My rent is 200 USD and the Internet one is 50 USD. You're just rude, instead of supporting people who is in a really tight situation you just sit there comfy and say ''then get a job haha''
Is more easy than said, overall in the pandemic stuff.
8 hours may not sound a lot for some people, but for small artists it is; for just losing let's say 10 USD in bidding because of the limitation, that's a lot for me, and I try to get the less commissions and stuff to do because I don't only have to draw, but also studies and attend a whole house almost by myself. Not only drags bidders but also new watchers, and that means you won't need to post too much reminders over the time.

In personal stuff, I do have mouths to feed, a rent to pay, and I've been needing extra money for my pregnant mother and the father just leaved so we're alone on this. I get the reminders are sometimes kind of annoying, I also follow awesome artists, but you need to understand them if you wanna keep them in this site, I just take my time, open the submissions I want in another page then select all and remove.

As the way they can filter NSFW things, they should be able to put one for advertising and clasify the reminders as that. I'm sorry but I think they're just lazy in putting a rule without even asking the users if they agreed by that.

 

[AnnVee]

You can make sure that users who are in no way connected with sales and that they have not felt the consequences of the rules oppose the reminders. it’s the same if the white man convinced the black man that he wasn’t infringed in any way and that there wasn’t any mass contempt and hatred on him because the white man didn’t experience it, and any complaints what he made were a sentimental argument. I am very glad that people like you were not involved in world historical events.
you are trying to shut us up, calling people to close their eyes to the problems of others. but why do you think this section was created? here are complaints and suggestions. We complain and offer. You clutter up serious discussions with meaningless speeches and enter into disputes with people who came just to express their opinion. I am sorry that I have to share this community with such people.
ps. I wish all artists to stick together and hope for the best. we must be heard.

Finally someone find the correct example and give a good argument . Agree with all.

 

[Doberman_Moralist]

the thing is that i'm not closing myself from other opinions, i already heard his opinion 10 times already, i didn't need to hear it another 10 times. we've already explained how we feel and he was just replying with the same anti-point over and over, so why wouldn't we block him?

You yourself brought him into conversation, come on without pretense. I am surprised that the discussion spanned several pages, most of which are your posts. I don’t know what purpose you are pursuing, but there is no informative communication here. Why do you question people's grief and argue with them? It might be worth it once to voice your point of view about reminders, and not to persecute people who simply share their feelings, for which this section was created.

 

[Rayd]

You can make sure that users who are in no way connected with sales and that they have not felt the consequences of the rules oppose the reminders. it’s the same if the white man convinced the black man that he wasn’t infringed in any way and that there wasn’t any mass contempt and hatred on him because the white man didn’t experience it, and any complaints what he made were a sentimental argument. I am very glad that people like you were not involved in world historical events.
you are trying to shut us up, calling people to close their eyes to the problems of others. but why do you think this section was created? here are complaints and suggestions. We complain and offer. You clutter up serious discussions with meaningless speeches and enter into disputes with people who came just to express their opinion. I am sorry that I have to share this community with such people.
ps. I wish all artists to stick together and hope for the best. we must be heard.

i never brought morals, life problems, etc. into the argument, that was on the part of other people, and it integrated itself into the debate, until it ceased to be a debate. the comparison doesn't work and i'm sure many would be offended to even see you compare the two. you cannot play the victim card when you brought it up in the crossfire of debate.

Aaaand trying to get money for drawing is irresponsible?

nope. never said this. it's not even about art, read the previous explanations.

You yourself brought him into conversation, come on without pretense. I am surprised that the discussion spanned several pages, most of which are your posts. I don’t know what purpose you are pursuing, but there is no informative communication here. Why do you question people's grief and argue with them? It might be worth it once to voice your point of view about reminders, and not to persecute people who simply share their feelings, for which this section was created.

i shared my feelings. see my first post. people brought sentiment into the debate. not me.

 

[FenrisNordwind]

Aaaand trying to get money for drawing is irresponsible? I've been in FA around a year, and honestly without this grand help from the page and my customers I would have starved to death, not even joking. In my country the salary per month is 4 USD, what do I do with that? My rent is 200 USD and the Internet one is 50 USD. You're just rude, instead of supporting people who is in a really tight situation you just sit there comfy and say ''then get a job haha''
Is more easy than said, overall in the pandemic stuff.
8 hours may not sound a lot for some people, but for small artists it is; for just losing let's say 10 USD in bidding because of the limitation, that's a lot for me, and I try to get the less commissions and stuff to do because I don't only have to draw, but also studies and attend a whole house almost by myself. Not only drags bidders but also new watchers, and that means you won't need to post too much reminders over the time.

In personal stuff, I do have mouths to feed, a rent to pay, and I've been needing extra money for my pregnant mother and the father just leaved so we're alone on this. I get the reminders are sometimes kind of annoying, I also follow awesome artists, but you need to understand them if you wanna keep them in this site, I just take my time, open the submissions I want in another page then select all and remove.

As the way they can filter NSFW things, they should be able to put one for advertising and clasify the reminders as that. I'm sorry but I think they're just lazy in putting a rule without even asking the users if they agreed by that.

Well there we have the point of filtering it. Are there any other ideas.

 

[ShizuMoh]

i never brought morals, life problems, etc. into the argument, that was on the part of other people, and it integrated itself into the debate, until it ceased to be a debate. the comparison doesn't work and i'm sure many would be offended to even see you compare the two. you cannot play the victim card when you brought it up in the crossfire of debate.



nope. never said this. it's not even about art, read the previous explanations.



i shared my feelings. see my first post. people brought sentiment into the debate. not me.

Excuse me? You literally said ''To all the people with their only argument over and over talking about how they struggle to pay bills and struggle to feed themselves and others because they're unprepared to do freelancing as a full-time job, i'll say this one last time. -

you're irresponsible as fuck.''

You DID said it. You're just tagging as ''irresponsibles'' who takes art as a living because they can't do other jobs. You don't know their context, neither where they live or what situation they are in.

 

[ShizuMoh]

Well there we have the point of filtering it. Are there any other ideas.

A more actualized tagging system and a blacklist for them, maybe? They get paid a lot for advertising and at this point is not that hard to put a system like that.

 

[Rayd]

Excuse me? You literally said ''To all the people with their only argument over and over talking about how they struggle to pay bills and struggle to feed themselves and others because they're unprepared to do freelancing as a full-time job, i'll say this one last time. -

you're irresponsible as fuck.''

You DID said it. You're just tagging as ''irresponsibles'' who takes art as a living because they can't do other jobs. You don't know their context, neither where they live or what situation they are in.

mmmnope, the entirety of my point is that it's not FA's problem to manage your financial stability, and that your financial troubles does not give FA an objective reason to revert the changes (even though yes, a filter system or even an entire page solely for YCH's would have been better). it's your choice to do freelancing as a job and your choice to use FA to do so. you understand the risks with freelancing as with any other job. as others have said, you're not contracted to FA, so it's not their responsibility. it's your's.

 

[Doberman_Moralist]

i never brought morals, life problems, etc. into the argument, that was on the part of other people, and it integrated itself into the debate, until it ceased to be a debate. the comparison doesn't work and i'm sure many would be offended to even see you compare the two. you cannot play the victim card when you brought it up in the crossfire of debate.



nope. never said this. it's not even about art, read the previous explanations.



i shared my feelings. see my first post. people brought sentiment into the debate. not me.

I am not going to argue with you, and I suggest others not to engage in heated discussions. We have different positions and different interests, we will not be able to adhere to one opinion.
just explain why need to fill in the thread with debate? Together we are trying to find a solution to the problem. Let everyone remain in their own opinion and will do what they should. I suffered from the new rules, proposed solutions, then we just have to read the messages of others. Let's not get personal and don't blame someone for being irresponsible. Everyone has the right to their opinion, but let it not be intrusive.

 

[FenrisNordwind]

A more actualized tagging system and a blacklist for them, maybe? They get paid a lot for advertising and at this point is not that hard to put a system like that.

I don't know much about the topic. but should be possible because there is already a filter system

 

[ShizuMoh]

mmmnope, the entirety of my point is that it's not FA's problem to manage your financial stability, and that your financial troubles does not give FA an objective reason to revert the changes (even though yes, a filter system or even an entire page solely for YCH's would have been better). it's your choice to do freelancing as a job and your choice to use FA to do so. you understand the risks with freelancing as with any other job. as others have said, you're not contracted to FA, so it's not their responsibility. it's your's.

Never said that, I know they're not responsible for that, BUT they must understand the people who uses their page at the very least.
A big part of FA is YCH, adoptables and commissions, not saying it because I feel like it, if you go to the browse page most of the submissions is that.

I wasn't talking about FA, but about you just being rude.

 

[Rayd]

I am not going to argue with you, and I suggest others not to engage in heated discussions. We have different positions and different interests, we will not be able to adhere to one opinion.
just explain why need to fill in the thread with debate? Together we are trying to find a solution to the problem. Let everyone remain in their own opinion and will do what they should. I suffered from the new rules, proposed solutions, then we just have to read the messages of others. Let's not get personal and don't blame someone for being irresponsible. Everyone has the right to their opinion, but let it not be intrusive.

i wasn't even attempting to get into debate until i was quoted again and again and again and the replies continued to get more personal. it was never my intention to criticize people's problems nor tell them what they should or shouldn't do, that's just what it became. i agreed time and time again that other alternatives would have been way better for everybody. i'm all for dropping it right now.

Never said that, I know they're not responsible for that, BUT they must understand the people who uses their page at the very least.
A big part of FA is YCH, adoptables and commissions, not saying it because I feel like it, if you go to the browse page most of the submissions is that.

I wasn't talking about FA, but about you just being rude.

if you see it as rude, then that's your right, but i was just giving my 2 cents and it came out more vulgar than i had liked because insults were being thrown around. i'm still firm in my beliefs, though.

 

[Doberman_Moralist]

I see best way - add an individual filter so that everyone could block for viewing the account of a person who is obsessive in "browse".
If someone is annoyed by sales, unpleasant pictures for them, obsessive artists, then there will be an opportunity to remove it with one click. So artists will not suffer and there will be no discomfort to people

 

[ShizuMoh]

i wasn't even attempting to get into debate until i was quoted again and again and again and the replies continued to get more personal. it was never my intention to criticize people's problems nor tell them what they should or shouldn't do, that's just what it became. i agreed time and time again that other alternatives would have been way better for everybody. i'm all for dropping it right now.



if you see it as rude, then that's your right, but i was just giving my 2 cents and it came out more vulgar than i had liked because insults were being thrown around. i'm still firm in my beliefs, though.

You didn't gave any solution to the problem my dude. You're just complaining at this point.

 

[Rayd]

You didn't gave any solution to the problem my dude. You're just complaining at this point.

but...you're the one who's been complaining this entire time lol. all i was saying is that you're not going to change my mind by calling me rude.

 

[ShizuMoh]

but...you're the one who's been complaining this entire time lol. all i was saying is that you're not going to change my mind by calling me rude.

If you bothered to read, I did gave filters as an option or a better tagging system, and giving my points on why it is a problem.

 

[Raever]

You are rude as fuck.

@Aprilycan is being extremely blunt which can incite anger, but he does have a point (albeit masked in overzealous passion). I don't agree with the way hes shoving his jargon at people, especially since no one asked him to repeat himself, I stand by what I said earlier about free speech and respect his statement as a fellow forum member.

To all the peoole who think the artists affected are irresponsible, I hope no artist is ever willing to work with you again. If you are seriously that much of a douche to call people who draw your fancy sonas and crap irresponsible for wanting to follow their dreams, you don't deserve any of it.

It's not the following dreams part that we see as irresponsible. It's a lack of a backup plan that is, arguably, irresponsible. To clarify, all artists I have commissioned aren't here complaining. They're likely working, or have seasonal jobs, or know a temp agency they're capable of going to.

There is always something someone can do, and when you're a freelancer it's best to live somewhere affordable with a roommate you trust and not on your own in an apartment that costs 2k - 3k in rent alone. If you see this as us insulting you for following your dreams, then you're clearly not seeing the bigger picture here.

Here you go.

To be fair...that's like the ONE guy, and he's not necessarily saying negative things so much as very blunt things lol

Don't group us in with that.
We're all our own individuals.

 

[Rayd]

If you bothered to read, I did gave filters as an option or a better tagging system, and giving my points on why it is a problem.

as did i, so i'm not sure what your point is. i'm done talking in circles, though, so i'm just going to be done with it.

 

[FenrisNordwind]

@Aprilycan It’s okay then it’s going to stay that way. You can leave it now.
Solutions then a filter system or a separate market.

 

[Raever]

If you have to give up on your dream because a small amount of advert space was taken your dream wasn't off the ground yet which means it wasn't safe to not work a day job and bet all your funds on commission work anyway. You don't see youtubers getting a thousand subscribers and going, "Yes this is enough" and quitting their jobs on the spot "for their dreams".

It takes months to YEARS of work for them to be full time creators with hundreds of thousands of viewers before they even THINK about doing YouTube full time. The same applies to artists. You can't live your dream when it's not stable enough to do so yet.

Let this update function as a reminder of that.

 

[Ganjaman]

Each for himself chooses how to use the art site. Before that, it was ideal for promoting goods, but they transfer it to a regular art gallery without even asking the community for opinion, except for provocations on your part, I see nothing.

New rules are created for site users. in making a decision, the administration must rely on the real needs of the audience and find compromises. When the rules are introduced that oppress a certain group of people, this can be considered discrimination, in my opinion it contradicts the ideals of the furry community, where there is no place for hatred, oppression and indifference. We must hear each other and understand.

I hope that the administration will take into account the opinion of a significant part of the community and find more reasonable solutions.

 

[ShizuMoh]

@Aprilycan
Aaand it ended on blocking me instead on giving their points.
So yeah, you can't just complain about something then don't give a solution from this, and both ways don't get affected.
Hope this gets a good end for everyone and no one has to leave the page for any reason.