• Fur Affinity Forums are governed by Fur Affinity's Rules and Policies. Links and additional information can be accessed in the Site Information Forum.

A "Selfish" Question

BRN

WTB Forum Mod Powers
I was recently talking with a friend in a rather emotional way, about the nature of memories and regrets.

Hey, don't get me wrong, this isn't an angsty thread. Quit hovering over the Backspace key.


In any case, we were talking, and discussed that people who have been through shit invariably end up tougher than they were before, and more capable of handling rougher shit. Some of those people go on to suffer further shit, and end up very secure and capable as a result, after the process of healing.

A question that we came to was that these people, if they have mindset to do so, can be invaluable sources of support for their friends, because of their capacity to be 'a rock'. However, who do these people seek support from; 'quis custodiet ipsos custodes'?

So we came to discuss a 'selfish' question -- the people who have many friends, and are capable of taking on those friend's burdens with ease because of their thicker skins; if they cannot find the ability to seek support for their own issues, is that "loneliness"?
 
Last edited:

Vaelarsa

resident spaceship
I wouldn't call it "selfish" or "lonely."
People cope and sort out their problems in different ways. When someone suggests group therapy, for instance, it's not going to work for everyone. Some people don't find solace in the company of others.

I, for one, like to rant a lot, but I hate just dumping my emotional baggage on my friends and asking for a solution. It's not their responsibility. They have their own lives to deal with. And I like figuring out solutions on my own, unless I'm totally desperate or the problem is out of my control.
 

Fuzzle

Two scoops of Fuzz
Well it sometimes manifests itself in personal growth in spite of past abuse, but the opposite is also true. Simply manifests itself in the abused and leads to destructive behavior. A lot of people grow up with a F*** the world mentality and that's not something you need support from. It is true that that going through hard times can result in positive maturity but it's a mixed bag. I know I'm better off for a lot of the issues I've endured.
 

CannonFodder

Resistance is futile! If 0 ohm
A question that we came to was that these people, if they have mindset to do so, can be invaluable sources of support for their friends, because of their capacity to be 'a rock'. However, who do these people seek support from; 'quis custodiet ipsos custodes'?
Easy nobody and keeping it to themselves until the amount of psychological instability builds up to the point that even strangers begin to realize the individual wants to smash someone's skull in for everyone thinking they're some sort of messiah and wanting to hurt the people who are so addicted to requiring their aid for anything and everything that some people have grown to be unable to function without the "strong" individual and beginning to want teach them actual physical pain for pushing said individual into a messiah archetype with no free will lest those dependent do something buttfucking retarded as slitting their wrist just because there's no one there to think for them or be their emotional support, thus forcing the person into a hero archetype unable to talk to anyone themselves that they can't get out of otherwise the people so dependent on them to be their hero go and kill themselves. . . .

No I'm not bitter, whatever gave you that idea? :V
 

SilverCat

New Member
I think that everyone somehow gets taken care of. If said person has a lot of friends and they have an issue or something need to talk about, one of their many or even few friends is bound to have some insight or some ability to help the situation in some way. Just because the friends need help doesnt mean that they have no ability of helping someone. Also, theres a good chance that this thick skinned person has the experience and knowledge to avoid situations that require support as well as being able to work things out on their own. The whole point of support is to gain understanding of what you are going through and if you already have thick skin and a better understanding of what people go through, youre less likely to need support. So i dont think that means that the person is lonely at all.
 

benignBiotic

Banned
Banned
Well no one takes stress in the same way. Some people really need the company of friends and family to get out of a rut. Some of us just take some quiet time and sort things out alone.

This doesn't necessarily mean the loner is lonely. He just needs his space to become that rock. I don't burden my friends with my problems very often, but I'm more than willing to talk them through theirs.
 

badlands

drunken pirate
some people just work things out in their own head or talk to other people they don't know IRL over the internet because everyone they do know thinks them to be unbreakable.
 

CannonFodder

Resistance is futile! If 0 ohm
............Um....................why don't you explain to these people that you cannot handle being a 'messiah' and if they don't like it, refer them to some one or some group that can help them? You're not really going to let these people's problems drive you to hurt someone or yourself, are you?
I told them to go fuck themselves with a rusty spoon. There's only so much of "woah is me for my boyfriend just dumped me", "*remorseful whining*My life is over for I broke my latest iphone and have use to my outdated one, the world is over". Basically I no longer give a shit enough. If people that stupid that they are suicidal cause no one bought them a Lamborghini for Christmas as a present actually did all kill themselves the world would be a much better place.

If someone starts complaining to me that they don't have a 115 inch flat screen plasma television and saying that they DESERVE one I'll walk right out of the room, cause I've had enough of other people's bullshit about how their lives are so hard cause they don't have a private airliner jet.

I've also had enough of people complaining about their relationship when they utterly refuse to leave their abusive boyfriend who is beating the crap out of them. "Hey guess what? I know I've said this 14213542351 times before, but me and <x> are back together again and he said he wuvs me and won't hit me anymore", while the person has a black eye and a broken leg from their abusive spouse. "Hey guess what? I know I've said this 23423152 times, but me and my spouse are back together again. I know he gave me aids, herpes and gonorrhea cause and was raping children, but he promises to stop this time for real".

I know it sounds cold of me, but there's only so much stupidity when it comes to other people's relationships any individual can deal with. I've seen people in abusive relationships go back numerous times to their abuser even though they themselves had become financially independent and gotten on their feet.

If I have learned one thing from all the bullshit I've had to deal with from other people it's that to no longer give a fuck about other people. Self destructive individuals do not get better. If a individual really wants to improve their lives and get away from their abusers and start a new life then that's when you help. Individuals who want to continue their self destruction will never get better no matter how much time and effort you put into helping them. You could spend a decade trying to help a self destructive individual, they will still be as self destructive as the day you first tried to help them.

Tl:dr; You can't help someone that doesn't actually want help.
 

Symlus

Sophisticated Snake
A question that we came to was that these people, if they have mindset to do so, can be invaluable sources of support for their friends, because of their capacity to be 'a rock'. However, who do these people seek support from; 'quis custodiet ipsos custodes'?

So we came to discuss a 'selfish' question -- the people who have many friends, and are capable of taking on those friend's burdens with ease because of their thicker skins; if they cannot find the ability to seek support for their own issues, is that "loneliness"?

I must say, in all honesty, that I am one of those people. When I have issues, I just don't show it, and I repress my emotions for a while; this leads to a constant depression. However, in the words of Paul Dunbar, We Wear the Mask. I don't let my issues show because I hate being a bother to anybody, and I feel that my true emotions would only serve to bring them down, and that's exactly the opposite of what I want to accomplish. So I must continue with my burden.

I don't see how your question is selfish, unless you mean that the people looking for these "Rocks" are selfish. The only reason I am capable of this is through a consistent apathy, which is covered by my "Mask." I feign sorrow, joy, or excitement; long has it been since I last felt a true and strong sorrow, a filling joy, or an electric shock from excitement. As for loneliness, I do feel it on occasion, but I bear though it; it is my burden to shoulder.
 

TeenageAngst

Banned
Banned
Well it sometimes manifests itself in personal growth in spite of past abuse, but the opposite is also true. Simply manifests itself in the abused and leads to destructive behavior. A lot of people grow up with a F*** the world mentality and that's not something you need support from. It is true that that going through hard times can result in positive maturity but it's a mixed bag. I know I'm better off for a lot of the issues I've endured.

Nail on the head right there. That which does not kill you makes you a mean, bitter, derisive son of a bitch incapable of empathy.
 

Azure

100% organic vegan hubbas
Nail on the head right there. That which does not kill you makes you a mean, bitter, derisive son of a bitch incapable of empathy.
I feel the embodiment of such a thing. But I've had lots of things that have tried to kill me, some literally. Sadly, the question asked does not apply to me because I have no friends, and thus no support structure. And that is loneliness.
 

Dreaming

Member
In any case, we were talking, and discussed that people who have been through shit invariably end up tougher than they were before, and more capable of handling rougher shit. Some of those people go on to suffer further shit, and end up very secure and capable as a result, after the process of healing.

I must be the exemption

I dunno, it may sound shallow but there are times in life when you need to be a little selfish at the expense of others. Maybe both will benefit, maybe they'll both lose out... either way, lessons are learned and something is gained
 

Troj

Your Friendly Neighborhood Dino Therapist
If I understand your question:

Loneliness is a feeling of painful, unpleasant, and undesired disconnection from other beings and the world.

To be alone isn't necessarily to be lonely. I tend to feel content and happy when I'm alone, and I'm more likely to feel lonely when I've been plopped into a group of people with whom I can't connect.

I know many, many people who are surrounded by oodles of acquaintances, buddies, and chums, but who still report feeling lonely and empty, because they can't confide in, place their trust in, seek comfort from, or be emotionally intimate with any of those people in a meaningful way.

Like Vaelarsa said, people cope with problems in different ways. Some people prefer to withdraw to reflect or brood, while others need to rant, while still others feel the need to be comforted and heard, and many choose to decompress through some combination of the above.

When you can't de-stress, decompress, or gain closure in the way you need to in order to feel a true sense of peace and satisfaction, you typically feel distressed and dissatisfied.

If you feel like you've actually been denied the means to take care of yourself and feel good, you may even feel angry.

If your preferred way of gaining closure or peace after a troubling or stressful event requires interaction with others, or a certain kind or level of interaction or intimacy with others, and you can't achieve that, then you may feel lonely.

Additionally, often, if you want a loyal, true, caring friend, first, you have to be willing and able to be a loyal, true, and caring friend. In reality, you don't always get what you give, but being willing to give others what you want yourself at least increases your chances of actually finding it.
 
Last edited:

TeenageAngst

Banned
Banned
I think a lot of it has to do with the notion of actually going through healing. If you're able to recover and process the shit that happens in your life you're probably going to be able to handle the next hurdle that much better. If your problems are more akin to being hit by a freight train where every car grinds another part of your soul beneath it's wheels, then just like a weightlifter trying to work out too much, it actually destroys your endurance and ability to cope.
 

Bambi

Member
Are you asking if these tough as rocks people sort of feed off their loneliness, SIX?
 

BRN

WTB Forum Mod Powers
Are you asking if these tough as rocks people sort of feed off their loneliness, SIX?

I guess I'm more wondering whether or not people who want support but can't get themselves to open up can be described as lonely, despite having many friends.

What I'm reading is pretty interesting. I like what TA said about how maybe people who need support haven't truly healed. Some really interesting anecdotes all over, too.
 
Last edited:

Ricky

Well-Known Member
I think you're confusing being stubborn and not wanting to ask for help with the ability to talk to people and open up. The reason most people are unable to work out life's problems is usually because of inertia -- most people I meet are able to put themselves in a better situation but don't do so, and instead become complacent with the way things are.

Some people could definitely have helped themselves by swallowing their pride and asking for help, though. I just don't think that either way shrugging things off actually helps to solve problems. Those people just bitch a lot less.

People who shut themselves off to others can definitely be lonely and like Troj pointed out, people who maintain superficial relations can be too. Stubborn people sometimes will shut themselves off but that's not always the case and some people just don't need others to feel that sense of satisfaction.
 

Troj

Your Friendly Neighborhood Dino Therapist
Well, and someone who would otherwise benefit from opening up may choose not to do so for any number or combination of reasons. Some people may be stubborn. Others may be macho. Others may not want to feel "indebted" to others. Others are afraid of being or appearing vulnerable, because they fear that it will cause those around them to exploit them, mock them, or lose respect for them. Others have just been very badly burned, and therefore have trouble bringing themselves to trust people.

Me, I can relate, because I've been there myself. I've never really been someone who likes to ask for help or support, show strong emotion, or especially, appear weak or vulnerable in front of others, and it's taken me many years and much work to get comfortable with the idea of being even remotely vulnerable around non-family-members.
 

Ricky

Well-Known Member
Well, and someone who would otherwise benefit from opening up may choose not to do so for any number or combination of reasons. Some people may be stubborn. Others may be macho. Others may not want to feel "indebted" to others. Others are afraid of being or appearing vulnerable, because they fear that it will cause those around them to exploit them, mock them, or lose respect for them. Others have just been very badly burned, and therefore have trouble bringing themselves to trust people.

This is true. I think I fall into most of those boats, myself XD

It probably seems like stoic people are able to handle problems better because they don't complain as much. I don't think that is an advantage, though. I'm not sure; I've always been the type to figure shit out on my own, but when I don't feel like I am in control of my situation I get pretty stressed. It is good to try and take control, but people also have the potential when they are under a lot of stress to just give up. I feel myself falling into that downward spiral sometimes and I just have to force myself to suck it up for a bit and take some action to improve my situation.

At least 90% of the time I see people fail to handle their problems effectively it's because of inertia. That could be due to laziness, resignation (because of the above) or a feeling of hopelessness, or also really commonly people get disillusioned after putting forth so much effort and seeing so little result. I don't think it's due to "thin skin" though; if anything, I think *not* asking for help when it's needed is usually counterproductive.

I still tend to follow that path though, unless it's really in my best interest (and theirs) to ask for it.
 

IronDog

The Divide
When everyone you know depends øn you, expects you to always be solid, unbreakable, reliable, benevolent, there...

When you have a moment of weakness, where do you turn? Who can you depend øn. Everyone you know can't handle you showing any cracks, they're too used to your smooth, wall-like exterior.

Yes. When you need support for once and realise nobody you know is going to be able to handle it, that feeling is profoundly lonely.


Thank Bast for that one friend who knows what you're øn about. Who understands where you're coming from and is close enough to care but not so close it breaks them.
 

TigerBeacon

Internet Hate Machine
Some people don't ask for help because they know that there isn't anyone else capable of helping them, or maybe they've tried and just couldn't find someone. They have the time to stew over their own problems and work it out, and adapt when necessary because, for them, its the only way for them to keep moving forward without atrophying in the moment. And what these people become as a result from adaptation is all up on the personality and the people they interact with and how they dealt with it. Some would be sympathetic and supportive because they know the hardships people go through. Some would just end up being bitter and antagonistic because no one had given them that same support when they needed it. I would say personally its a crippling kind of loneliness because its a profound mental anguish that isn't resolved very easily, and most people can't understand the necessity for people to express that to someone, have them understand what resulted in being who you are now and telling them that its a blessing that they are still here and are glad for it.
 
I know this feeling. I don't mind listening to others, but I can't talk to any friends about it, because half the time I feel like they're not listening, or they think I'll be able to work through it myself. I've become so thick skinned that I used to piss off teachers in school because I didn't appear to be fazed by bad grades. And when it becomes too much? I just withdraw, and deal with it alone. There's only so much stress I can take, though. I guess I'm kind of in the same boat as everyone else here. No one to trust, or no one to listen.
 
Top