A simple request (aka, Meerkats and family on species filter)

[silver_raccoon]

I would have to say, like many I am frustrated by the lack of a search function and the woefully short list of animals on the species list. More irritatingly when many were complaining that their actual furry species was not represented on the drop down, suddenly the species "apple" made an apperance. Was this some kind of cruel joke against your members that didn't fall in your species categories or simply a thoughtless addition?

Now I understand you have difficulty obtaining the necessary funds for the servers that would be responsible for the search function, not to mention the money for the bandwith to accompany such, but since you have apple listed on the species tag, you obviously aren't worried about however much coding it takes to add a species tag or the extra bandwith it consumes in use. So here is my request: To help ease the plight of my particular (and growing) circle of friends on FA, I would ask you to please add the mongoose family to your search tag, with particular interest to myself and many others being the meerkat tag contained within.

Now I am sure that you hear species requests all the time, (can you add a slot for elevendyteened tailed herm penis-fingered-testicle-toed fox/dragon/chairtaurs? lol!!!!1) but this is quite a simple request compared to that [horror]. This is a common theme in furry art further bolstered by the TLK fanbase and the popular show Meerkat Manor on Animal Planet. I do believe that this would go far to please many more of your users then any other species tag addendum would.

An argument that I imagine you would make against this would be that the species tag list is too large already, but I have taken that under consideration as well. Room can be made easily enough by taking the following steps:

1. Delete the apple slot, seriously, why does this exist in a furry art site?
(no, actually I don't want to know why)
2. Combine Ferret and Mink into Weasel Family, not only does this open up a second slot but it also allows for a category in which could include several species not listed but are very closely related (e.g. ermines and standard weasels)
3. Possum, and Opossum, You shouldn't have to cater to the people who cannot spell Opossum correctly.

This makes three open slots and fairly streamlines searching for such.

Another argument I see is coding, as in your coders may be overtaxed at the moment. I'll bet I could find a coder to sort that out very quickly if necessary.

The final argument I could see is this is just one person saying this. so if you do not believe that this would benefit many users on here, I can get people to sign a petition (which may already be in the works) to show you what "the people" want.

I hope this convinces you,

Silver Raccoon (or meerkat?)

 

[TheForgottenCoon]

RE: A simple request

I agree, meerkats should be on there...I have a lil meerkat in me...but shhhh...no one knows that

 

[Anyango]

Here, here....!

I actually agree with him quite a bit. It's rather frustrating to have to continually write out "Meerkat", "Meerkats", "Surikata" and "Suricata" into the "Add Species" list. I've often wondered why there wasn't a Meerkat spot on the list as it were. Seeing as the TLK fan base is rather large and seeing as Meerkats have quite a bit Anthro-like properties anyways!

It only made sense so I was.... in awe when I seen that you hadn't a spot for them yet. I know there will be many who are VERY happy at the addition of it. PLEASE.......add it...!! @__@ I'm beggin' ya's!!

 

[Nightingalle]

While it isn't difficult to add them on, they're not going to. Then they'd have to add in everything else. Just sit back and wait for the rest of us for the new system, Ferrox to come out. Until then, enjoy the free site you get to use and don't complain.

 

[Stratelier]

The "free site" argument wears thin quickly, try not to overuse it.

 

[Eevee]

Why is there an "opposum [sic]"? :V

 

[Stratelier]

Better yet, why is there a "possum" AND "opposum" in the species listbox? Aren't they, like, the same exact thing?

 

[Bokracroc]

Better yet, why is there a "possum" AND "opposum" in the species listbox? Aren't they, like, the same exact thing?

Possum's are mostly in the Australia and New Guinea (and a few other places) while Opossum's are in the Western Hemisphere.

[size=x-small]Go go Primary School research project![/size]

 

[Delphinios]

Heh. Don't be fooled by promises of 'Ferrox'. I'm not the only one pretty convinced that it's less the panacea promised and more just moving around problems instead of fixing the ones that exist... not to mention it's been promised now for two of the three years FA has been in it's present state.

 

[silver_raccoon]

While it isn't difficult to add them on, they're not going to. Then they'd have to add in everything else. Just sit back and wait for the rest of us for the new system, Ferrox to come out. Until then, enjoy the free site you get to use and don't complain.

Fine for you to say, but most of my art goes unseen by the masses just because I don't work in standard circles, that and the have to add in anything else is a moot argument since they added apple. Another caveat and addendum is that I don't draw pornography, so this isn't about finding a fox so you can get off, so it's a lot harder to get exposure in a mostly porn based enterprise. I essentially get the double deuce on this one and I am not alone.

 

[silver_raccoon]

Better yet, why is there a "possum" AND "opposum" in the species listbox? Aren't they, like, the same exact thing?

I'm sure if there was only one choice, people would get the gist of it.

 

[Bokracroc]

Better yet, why is there a "possum" AND "opposum" in the species listbox? Aren't they, like, the same exact thing?

I'm sure if there was only one choice, people would get the gist of it.

I was under the impression that Eastern and Serpent dragons are basically be the same thing too but lo and behold!

 

[Eevee]

Heh. Don't be fooled by promises of 'Ferrox'. I'm not the only one pretty convinced that it's less the panacea promised and more just moving around problems instead of fixing the ones that exist... not to mention it's been promised now for two of the three years FA has been in it's present state.

Wow, dude, thanks.

Not like I am working on it right now and have spent most of my afternoon and evening discussing specs with net-cat.

Not like I just tonight committed a patch almost 2000 lines long.

Not like there's a thread on this very subforum, five threads down, created by me, titled [size=x-large]FERROX STATUS[/size].

Wtf.

 

[Delphinios]

Progress isn't a benchmark or a live date goal. You've pretty much told us "We're still working on it!" only a few more (appreciated!) specifics.

I'm not saying you aren't working *hard* on it. But pardon me if I don't see it as the end-all and be-all of the issues FA has always faced. And also pardon me for not jumping behind the "Just wait a little bit longer for Ferrox! It'll fix EVERYTHING!" that seems to be the chorus line around here. Even if it were 'ready' today, we're still talking a year of bugfixing and 'live beta' work. And I'm not convinced it to be out at all in 2008, even seeing your current progress!

So, at the least, it's gonna be a year, if not longer, before Silver can add a usable "meerkat" tag to his art...

Like I said, he shouldn't hold his breath. It doesn't mean I don't appreciate the work you guys are putting into Ferrox, or that it won't be useful once it's out... but my point still stands. it's been promised for two of the three years of this site's current iteration. And it's being coded by people who most likely this is their first time tackling a project of this magnitude. So, please excuse my lack of starry-eyed optimism.

Heh. Don't be fooled by promises of 'Ferrox'. I'm not the only one pretty convinced that it's less the panacea promised and more just moving around problems instead of fixing the ones that exist... not to mention it's been promised now for two of the three years FA has been in it's present state.

Wow, dude, thanks.

Not like I am working on it right now and have spent most of my afternoon and evening discussing specs with net-cat.

Not like I just tonight committed a patch almost 2000 lines long.

Not like there's a thread on this very subforum, five threads down, created by me, titled [size=x-large]FERROX STATUS[/size].

Wtf.

 

[Eevee]

I'm not going to set a release date because they are (a) marketing, which is a bit silly for a free site written by volunteers and (b) generally applied to people who work for a set ratio of time.

It will be the end-all be-all of issues FA has faced, because it is designed from the ground up to be exactly that. This is not a patch job on top of what we have now; this is starting fresh, carrying over nothing more than inspiration and direction. If you have a concern related to FA's current workings, you'd damn well better bring it up so we can address it.

It may have been promised since the Iron Age, but this code wasn't actually even started on until November. That is, actually, an infinity-fold increase in progress. I've been saying we're finally working on it, not that we're still working on it. And hey just think how much old art you'll find once you get ahold of the search that already works right now 8)

Your lack of starry-eyed optimism is noted, but keep in mind that the motivating factor here for us is morale. Grumbling that nothing will ever change is not helpful. Taking interest, making suggestions, and asking questions are.


ps: My day job revolves around a web app that makes FA look like some 12-year-old's Digimon fansite. I have some minor experience with scale.

pps: This of course has nothing to do with whether adding a new tag is actually feasible. Mongoose category seems reasonable; poking yak.

 

[Delphinios]

I will fully acknowledge that there has been more work done on this in the past few months then at any point in FA's history. I'm not saying I don't appreciate that. I fully understand that it's not a patch job, and I'll be happy to criticize (constructively) issues once it's released for live use.

*However* that doesn't mean I'm not going to gripe about the way things are. This *IS* damn well bringing up issues with FA's current workings, both social *and* from the user's experience... something coders and admins can often become numb to, which seems to be the case in this issue, and that's not something you can code away with a new version of the site.

The search function and the species list are *immediate concerns* and preventing many people from using the site effectively *right now*. That's the social result of a technical issue left unaddressed by those who run the site. That social issue will still be there in some form no matter if a search function or proper tagging is implemented in the next revision.

I know it's much more important to you to throw all of your energy into progressing the ferrox project. But the administration of this site has chosen to ignore the largest and most prominent issue brought up by it's *userbase*. We'd be happy for a quickly hacked together solution to tide us over until you guys fix the underlying issue. Sure, we may complain a bit about it, but it'd be *something* better, if only temporary. It would also show you *listening to us* instead of bitching that we're not being patient enough for you as you work on *your goals* not what *we're asking for*.

And I'm using 'you' in the general sense in this case.. I'm meaning the whole of the FA adminship, not you specifically. I *sincerely* appreciate how much work you're putting into making this site better. But I do ask that you listen to the users a little bit more and address their immediate concerns.. at least patch together something for us to use in the interim, even if it's not the most optimal solution in the long run.

ps: Awesome. Now if we could just make it a bit easier to add new species to the list, then this rigmarole.

I'm not going to set a release date because they are (a) marketing, which is a bit silly for a free site written by volunteers and (b) generally applied to people who work for a set ratio of time.

It will be the end-all be-all of issues FA has faced, because it is designed from the ground up to be exactly that. This is not a patch job on top of what we have now; this is starting fresh, carrying over nothing more than inspiration and direction. If you have a concern related to FA's current workings, you'd damn well better bring it up so we can address it.

It may have been promised since the Iron Age, but this code wasn't actually even started on until November. That is, actually, an infinity-fold increase in progress. I've been saying we're finally working on it, not that we're still working on it.

Your lack of starry-eyed optimism is noted, but keep in mind that the motivating factor here for us is morale. Grumbling that nothing will ever change is not helpful. Taking interest, making suggestions, and asking questions are.


ps: My day job involves a web app that makes FA look like some 12-year-old's MySpace. I have some minor experience with scale.

 

[Eevee]

Time for p/cp!

I will fully acknowledge that there has been more work done on this in the past few months then at any point in FA's history. I'm not saying I don't appreciate that. I fully understand that it's not a patch job, and I'll be happy to criticize (constructively) issues once it's released for live use.

I'm hoping for a beta of some sort when we hit 0.1, which is a fairly arbitrary version number but nonetheless looming on the horizon. I've already got it running on a live server, so that won't be a problem. I'm actually surprised how easy it is to just plunk this code down on anything -- even a Windows machine -- and get it running.

Er, anyway.

*However* that doesn't mean I'm not going to gripe about the way things are. This *IS* damn well bringing up issues with FA's current workings, both social *and* from the user's experience... something coders and admins can often become numb to, which seems to be the case in this issue, and that's not something you can code away with a new version of the site.

As not quite a user I admit I am guilty of this 8) Which is exactly why I am attempting to babble in my FA journal and hoping people will interject when I make bad assumptions about their browsing habits.

The search function and the species list are *immediate concerns* and preventing many people from using the site effectively *right now*. That's the social result of a technical issue left unaddressed by those who run the site.

Lack of search is appalling, yes. The current code is more appalling. verix and I did take a shot at a search. It didn't work out so well, and I'm not sure how well it would have scaled anyway.

That social issue will still be there in some form no matter if a search function or proper tagging is implemented in the next revision.

A lot of coding slowness now is because only a handful of people even know the code, and it's extremely painful to work with. yak has ended up rewriting large chunks of it already in quests to fix small problems. Part of the point here is to make it possible to add functionality or fix what's broken without it turning into a Herculean endeavor.

Ferrox, though, already has both tagging and full-text searching, courtesy of net-cat. We are not working on Valve time.

But the administration of this site has chosen to ignore the largest and most prominent issue brought up by it's *userbase*. We'd be happy for a quickly hacked together solution to tide us over until you guys fix the underlying issue. Sure, we may complain a bit about it, but it'd be *something* better, if only temporary. It would also show you *listening to us* instead of bitching that we're not being patient enough for you as you work on *your goals* not what *we're asking for*.

I'm not the administration, I don't know what they intend for the current incarnation, and I don't pretend to speak for them. I speak for me. You can complain about FA all you want; whatever, I've done my far share. I just jump in when people redirect that complaining towards my baby. (Not that it is my baby alone. Very few babies have only one parent.) Ferrox is how I am attempting to grandly fix everything; I don't even have write access to the current code, so I quite literally cannot fix code issues any other way. Conversely, to my knowledge yak has no write access to the Ferrox code, either.

I do listen. I watch this and the suggestion forum like a hawk, and I try to factor in everything everyone wants. I've filed most of the Ferrox tickets so far. I have pages of design scribbles lying around. I'm doing what I can. Dammit.

 

[Delphinios]

First, I think your responsiveness to concerns is awesome. I'm sorry you feel I've attacked 'your baby'. I did, but only out of habit from a few years of 'Ferrox' being vaporware. I admit, I wasn't aware at how far you've came in these past few months and I'd reacted mostly from experience before the current code push. So, let me apologies to you for that. As someone who's very familiar with the trials of such hobby undertakings (I'm experienced in the ways of open source projects), I know this is done on your own time and with others who are more and less responsive.. but all of you work on freetime schedules. I really do appreciate that work, I do!

But, this doesn't come without a caveat. By jumping in here, you took on the representation of someone who had possible direct affect on the issue raised in the original post. And thus, my criticism was more directed at that issue, not so much your project. You were the only 'administrative representative' to this issue and treated as such. It was only the post just before this, that I had any notion that you had no control over the current state of things... which was the main concern to my post. While this did, inadvertently attack 'your baby', it wasn't out of malice towards you.. it was out of frustration towards the way we've been treated as users thus far.

Either way, we're still asking for some way to use the site as it is effectively! If that's emailing a species addition request to the admin who can make that change, then we'll be happy to! If not, then we're still asking for *something*.. not so much a fully fledged search function (as I understand how difficult that is!) but some way we can affect minor additions to the current hacked together solution so that it may be useful to a majority of us users.

(Parentheses and ellipses denote cut text in the quote)

I'm hoping for a beta of some sort when we hit 0.1, which is a fairly arbitrary version number but nonetheless looming on the horizon. I've already got it running on a live server, so that won't be a problem. I'm actually surprised how easy it is to just plunk this code down on anything -- even a Windows machine -- and get it running.

Er, anyway.

(...)

As not quite a user I admit I am guilty of this 8) Which is exactly why I am attempting to babble in my FA journal and hoping people will interject when I make bad assumptions about their browsing habits.

(...)

Lack of search is appalling, yes. The current code is more appalling. verix and I did take a shot at a search. It didn't work out so well, and I'm not sure how well it would have scaled anyway.
(...)
A lot of coding slowness now is because only a handful of people even know the code, and it's extremely painful to work with. yak has ended up rewriting large chunks of it already in quests to fix small problems. Part of the point here is to make it possible to add functionality or fix what's broken without it turning into a Herculean endeavor.

Ferrox, though, already has both tagging and full-text searching, courtesy of net-cat. We are not working on Valve time.

(...)

I'm not the administration, I don't know what they intend for the current incarnation, and I don't pretend to speak for them. I speak for me. You can complain about FA all you want; whatever, I've done my far share. I just jump in when people redirect that complaining towards my baby. (Not that it is my baby alone. Very few babies have only one parent.) Ferrox is how I am attempting to grandly fix everything; I don't even have write access to the current code, so I quite literally cannot fix code issues any other way. Conversely, to my knowledge yak has no write access to the Ferrox code, either.

I do listen. I watch this and the suggestion forum like a hawk, and I try to factor in everything everyone wants. I've filed most of the Ferrox tickets so far. I have pages of design scribbles lying around. I'm doing what I can. Dammit.

 

[Stratelier]

pps: This of course has nothing to do with whether adding a new tag is actually feasible. Mongoose category seems reasonable; poking yak.

Well, somebody added some much-needed "Other" options to the listbox recently...

 

[Pi]

(many words elided)

Either way, we're still asking for some way to use the site as it is effectively! If that's emailing a species addition request to the admin who can make that change, then we'll be happy to! If not, then we're still asking for *something*.. not so much a fully fledged search function (as I understand how difficult that is!) but some way we can affect minor additions to the current hacked together solution so that it may be useful to a majority of us users.

So, you want them to duplicate effort in order to appease you? The current code isn't worth wiping my ass with and you want them to make it better AND work on ferrox?

I'm sure they'll get right on that, after they hand you the moon on a stick. I haven't seen this level of arrogant douchebaggery from someone other than myself in about 4 years.

 

[Stratelier]

...did somebody turn up the thermostat again, or is it just Pi?

 

[Delphinios]

Why, yes.. I am! i am, in fact, asking them to come up with a solution that allows the users to use the site *right now* instead fof in a theoretical year, even if it means some duplication of work.

Why? Because people are *USING THE SITE RIGHT NOW*. And their efforts are being impeded by the (lack of) functionality of the current system. -Which is an immediate problem-. And no, I'm not demanding that they work on this *and* ferrox.. I'm asking that they address the problem we're having in the short-term in such a way that it allows us to functionally use the current system *until they get the long-term solutions implemented*

That's not so much to ask! Even if it delays Ferrox a month, that's worth it for the additional thirteen months if USABLE WEBSITE* we have! That's the balance between the present and future that has to be addressed by any responsible administrators.

//could use the moon on a stick.
///that would be damn cool, actually.
////Which revision is that gonna be implemented in???

(many words elided)

Either way, we're still asking for some way to use the site as it is effectively! If that's emailing a species addition request to the admin who can make that change, then we'll be happy to! If not, then we're still asking for *something*.. not so much a fully fledged search function (as I understand how difficult that is!) but some way we can affect minor additions to the current hacked together solution so that it may be useful to a majority of us users.

So, you want them to duplicate effort in order to appease you? The current code isn't worth wiping my ass with and you want them to make it better AND work on ferrox?

I'm sure they'll get right on that, after they hand you the moon on a stick. I haven't seen this level of arrogant douchebaggery from someone other than myself in about 4 years.

 

[Pi]

Why, yes.. I am! i am, in fact, asking them to come up with a solution that allows the users to use the site *right now* instead fof in a theoretical year, even if it means some duplication of work.

First, if you're going to use the reply button, actually quote some material instead of just top posting.

Secondly, and I may be repeating myself here: Arrogant douchebaggery. What have you done to consider yourself able to demand these features from volunteer developers? How self-centered of you to ask them to put off a project for a month in order to pour effort into a project that's due to be scrapped! How presumptuous of you to estimate their time-table for them!

Personally, I think they should take the whole site down until Ferrox is finished, primarily to shut up the majority of whiny bitches with an overinflated sense of entitlement, like you.

 

[dave hyena]

did somebody turn up the thermostat again

Hopefully not.

 

[Delphinios]

I'll reply however I damn well feel like replying, thankyouverymuch.

And silly me, a user, having an opinion about the priorities of the site that I use. Whatever was I thinking! You are totally right. And how could I have the gall to express that opinion to the developers.. who, I assume, want to run a usable site for us, the community without which there would be no use for this site. That was completely wrong of me.

Shove it.

First, if you're going to use the reply button, actually quote some material instead of just top posting.

Secondly, and I may be repeating myself here: Arrogant douchebaggery. What have you done to consider yourself able to demand these features from volunteer developers? How self-centered of you to ask them to put off a project for a month in order to pour effort into a project that's due to be scrapped! How presumptuous of you to estimate their time-table for them!

Personally, I think they should take the whole site down until Ferrox is finished, primarily to shut up the majority of whiny bitches with an overinflated sense of entitlement, like you.