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America Vs Europe

lilEmber

Small Dragon
ceacar99, short answer on that xbox scenario: Yes because everybody is equal, they can do it as well.
 

Arcane hollow

The Dragon Spinmaster
America Reason, i have over 30 places to get guns with in an half an hours drive from my house. X3

Lmao, even at Wally World!
 

RoscoTL

Member
Forget Europe, "America rules", until maybe I see what Europes like when I visit then maybe Europe will rule.;)
 

dietrc70

Active Member
America Reason, i have over 30 places to get guns with in an half an hours drive from my house. X3

Lmao, even at Wally World!

Agreed. I have to go with America. Even though our government has been ignoring more and more of our Constitution, we still have the Bill of Rights.

Which means free speech and guns!

In most other countries, the government doesn't permit citizens to own weapons, and eventually doesn't permit them to think their own thoughts.

I'd probably be heavily fined or thrown in jail in many European countries (or Canada) for expressing my conservative/right wing/nationalist political opinions.
 

lilEmber

Small Dragon
That's not true, in fact America doesn't even have full free speech.
You can be branded a "terrorist" and lose all those rights, even if you did nothing.

There's another thread on the go that talks about a person doing a oral presentation and getting in serious trouble with the school and law because of the topic.

You can't say certain things in certain places without getting into serious trouble, too.

Lots, and I mean lots, of countries have actual free speech among many other things better, granter lots of countries also have no free speech and are worse off.
 

Doubler

Member
I'd probably be heavily fined or thrown in jail in many European countries (or Canada) for expressing my conservative/right wing/nationalist political opinions.
No, not really. Depending on how you define 'European countries' there may be a few instances (I don't pretend to know the legal codes of every European country), but that's like taking Cuba or the like to stand for 'America'. Take the EU and you can say what you like.
Extreme right-wing (as in: fascist or nazistic) ideologies may land you in trouble with the general population, but even that is unlikely to get you fined or in jail.
 
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lilEmber

Small Dragon
I'd probably be heavily fined or thrown in jail in many European countries (or Canada) for expressing my conservative/right wing/nationalist political opinions.

Uhm, no. Canada doesn't give a shit, there's more freedom of speech here than in the US.
You could walk up to a police officer and tell him to go fuck his own fat, pigtailed ass. He will laugh at you.
 

dietrc70

Active Member
Uhm, no. Canada doesn't give a shit, there's more freedom of speech here than in the US.
You could walk up to a police officer and tell him to go fuck his own fat, pigtailed ass. He will laugh at you.

Look up some of the dirt on the Canadian Human Rights Commission.

I frequently read about arrests and prosecutions in Europe for various forms of "hate speech." Criticizing Muslim immigration seems to be a common way to get in trouble.

European papers sometimes compare their system to America's, and seem to think that the First Amendment is strange and excessive. The consensus that I get from European sources is that America has far more freedom of speech than Europe...maybe too much.

***

"That's not true, in fact America doesn't even have full free speech.
You can be branded a "terrorist" and lose all those rights, even if you did nothing."

That was a completely unconstitutional claim made by the war criminals of the Bush Administration.
 

Doubler

Member
That sounds alien to me. I have no idea what your sources are, but they don't seem to be very fair :p
In my experience 'hate speech' (and other such terms) is a controversial term, usually reserved for people directly inciting violence and the like but without consequence on it's own. To that end, I will point towards the word 'peacably' in your own first amendment. Violent acts are not protected by free speech.

There is discussion about free speech and how far it should go, and whether slander and insults should be protected as such. But you're not about to land in jail for stating an opinion.

Often there are also archaic laws against things like slander that were drafted in some past, but are no longer enforced. That before someone brings it up.
 
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lilEmber

Small Dragon
I've never heard of a single freedom of speech issue in Canada, I have heard of plenty in the US.
 

lilEmber

Small Dragon
Who the fuck is Dean Steacy?
He's nobody of importance, and is just a person. Look, I can say that too, doesn't make it happen in the rest of the country.

I guess what the christfags in the US say is what the entire country believes, correct?
 
It seems a pretty spurious difference in that in both scenarios you're paying taxes to the government while you're earning and getting assistance if you can't (either through injury or age). One is "better" simply because it goes into and comes out of a specific government account?

No Social Security is like retirement that they force you to pay. Welfare is just government hand outs.

<Conservative logic>
Can't spend the time or money to build roads? What a failure! You're just getting free roads from the state because you supposedly can't build them yourself.

Can't afford to buy a tank? Bill Gates can buy a tank (or two), he worked his way up from nothing to where he is today, if you can't work your way up to where you can buy a tank to defend yourself you're obviously lazy and don't deserve to be defended. Why should my taxes pay to defend you when you supposedly unable to fund one yourself?

</Conservative logic>

The thing is, you can apply your arguments against welfare and universal healthcare in much the same way against publicly-funded roading, defence and whatnot...

No you can't like I said, the average person can afford their own health care. The average person cannot afford a tank or road expenses.

PS: Using the same extreme logic you used I could say liberal logic is that no one has to do anything and money, food, and shelter will simply rain down from heaven.... But I'm smart enough to realize that is false logic....
 

Mayfurr

Mostly Harmless
I'd probably be heavily fined or thrown in jail in many European countries (or Canada) for expressing my conservative/right wing/nationalist political opinions.

On the other hand, people from Europe, Canada, Australia and New Zealand can visit Cuba without any fear that our government will prosecute us when we get home... unlike the USA.
 

Mayfurr

Mostly Harmless
No Social Security is like retirement that they force you to pay. Welfare is just government hand outs.

Because heaven forbid that the government actually tries to help anyone who is actually in need, eh?

No you can't like I said, the average person can afford their own health care. The average person cannot afford a tank or road expenses.

Really? If the average person in the US can afford health care, then how come more patients die in the US from diseases that could be treated by timely intervention than in any other leading industrialised country?

A decade ago, the US had the fourth worst record among a group of 19 industrialised countries in terms of deaths per 100,000 people from diseases that are amenable to treatment. These include infections, treatable cancers, diabetes, and heart and vascular disease, according to Ellen Nolte and Martin McKee of the London School of Hygiene and Tropical Medicine.

Over the succeeding five years, the number of such deaths in the US fell from 115 per 100,000 to 110. But other countries improved faster, leaving the US with the worst record, behind Portugal, Ireland and the UK, where the preventable death rate runs at 103 or 104 per 100,000.

"If the US performed as well as the top three countries in the study" - France, with 65 deaths per 100,000, and Japan and Australia, both with 71 per 100,000 - "there would have been 101,000 fewer deaths per year," the authors write in the journal Health Affairs.

Or, as one blogger put it: "Surely it's a coincidence that the "leading" performer in that category is the only country without universal health care?

But like Madeleine Albright said about the death of hundreds of thousands Iraqi kids in the 90s because of the sanctions regime, "it is worth it" - some principles are worth upholding even if it is tragically costly to do so. These hundred thousand Americans dying earlier than could have been each year (imagine: one million preventable deaths over the past decade!) are the front line soldiers in the fight for freedom and against socialism."

In other words: Each year, 101,000 Americans die needlessly because they're not French.
 

ceacar99

behold my boomstick!
Who the fuck is Dean Steacy?
He's nobody of importance, and is just a person. Look, I can say that too, doesn't make it happen in the rest of the country.

I guess what the christfags in the US say is what the entire country believes, correct?

i love how your arguments are essentially "so and so isn't true, i never have heard of it!" and when someone provides a link to some information you essentially say "well that information doesnt matter"........

Really? If the average person in the US can afford health care, then how come more patients die in the US from diseases that could be treated by timely intervention than in any other leading industrialised country?

partially because we're stingy bastards that much rather pay for a plasma screen tv. partially because there ARE families that make so little that they have trouble finding the money. however a big part is that many people dont go to the hospital or the doctor for every last thing. many people go long, long long tracts of time without seeing a doctor for various reasons and dont get checked out for everything.

further that information you provided can be a tad bit misleading. its accurate information but things like vascular disease and diabetes are in there. people die of those even if they get regular healthcare because quite simply put their diets and lifestyles are shit. its one of the american problems. it really doesnt have much to do with the quality of our healthcare but rather the number of morons who cant stop eating....
 
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Werevixen

This is my new rapeface.
i love how your arguments are essentially "so and so isn't true, i never have heard of it!" and when someone provides a link to some information you essentially say "well that information doesnt matter"........

I love it when the pot calls the kettle black.
 

ceacar99

behold my boomstick!
I love it when the pot calls the kettle black.

there's a difference between outright saying "that information doesnt matter" and saying "your information is right, but the way it is presented is misleading". where his arguements essentially ammount to "nuh huh!" and "well he's a moron so that article doesnt count". my arguements rather usually involve accepting someone's source such as the one above, but picking apart the information and showing the person that there is more to his provided information then he thinks there is.
 

Mayfurr

Mostly Harmless
partially because we're stingy bastards that much rather pay for a plasma screen tv. partially because there ARE families that make so little that they have trouble finding the money. however a big part is that many people dont go to the hospital or the doctor for every last thing. many people go long, long long tracts of time without seeing a doctor for various reasons and dont get checked out for everything.

further that information you provided can be a tad bit misleading. its accurate information but things like vascular disease and diabetes are in there. people die of those even if they get regular healthcare because quite simply put their diets and lifestyles are shit. its one of the american problems. it really doesnt have much to do with the quality of our healthcare but rather the number of morons who cant stop eating....

No-one is disputing the quality of American healthcare from the perspective of treatment - it's the availability of American healthcare to its citizens which is the problem. The best treatments, doctors and surgeons on the planet are no damn good to people if, through lack of cash or insurance cover, they can't afford the care to get well!
 

lilEmber

Small Dragon
i love how your arguments are essentially "so and so isn't true, i never have heard of it!" and when someone provides a link to some information you essentially say "well that information doesnt matter".......

Your post reeks of ad hominem.

It's because it -doesn't- matter, fuck-twit.
If it doesn't matter, and I say it doesn't matter; that the information makes no sense, and has -nothing- to do with the discussion other than opinion, it doesn't hold any weight, and doesn't matter. If you see a pattern of this, maybe it's because you fuck-twits can't provide a real argument.

Now, so does mine.
 
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