You can't supersize your orders around here, which I don't mind. I'm surprised some of them held onto it after they started phasing it out.
Cyanomega
Well-Known Member
@Rassah Ok, but what meals are you talked my about? Grrr..... I feel like I'm not really getting my point across. Guess I'm just being a idiot. I can't be in the minority here. My mother cooked for my family every night. And the lunches she packed when I was in school were always enjoyable cold leftovers or PB&J with fruit.damn, I feel like I'm missing some important element of this whole discussion.
Rassah
Well-Known Member
I've been googling it since the start of this whole debate years ago. My parents are also microbiologists and dad is a genetic engineer, and taught me a lot while I was growing up, so I have some semblance of a foundation to start with.
Most European countries haven't banned it. Just France and Germany, along with a few minor countries, and only certain GMO. It became more muddled though https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regulation_of_genetically_modified_organisms_in_the_European_Union
Really, all they did was put regulations on any new GMOs that are coming out after the law, while allowing all the other GMOs that came before it, for no reason other than misunderstood fear, since the new GMOs are no different, or more safe/risky than old ones. I really should stop saying "GMO" and just call it "selective breeding." It's the same thing, and not as scary.
Anything fast food, especially frozen microwaveable, and many things at restaurants...
Cyanomega
Well-Known Member
@Rassah who eats fast food every day? It's impractical. No one could afford to eat fast food every day. Microwaves make food taste like shit. I can understand someone buying something microwaveable for a fast meal at work but that's one meal out of three. Who goes to restaurants every night? That's a once in a while thing you do for a special occasion or celebration. Granted, if you are in a area where you have easy access to a diner or something during your lunch break I could see you going to it frequently, however that's one meal a day. The amount of exercise you get in that day would negate any negative effect it would have on your physical well being.
Rassah
Well-Known Member
I'm not saying eating that stuff constantly. Where are you getting this and going with it??? Just... that example you gave, of a microwaveable meal at work? That's what I used to do, and those things have enough sodium to last for the day. First and third meal pretty much have to be bland saltless cardboard things. Even gave me a kidney stone because of it (at which point I switched to Subway).
Erzyal
Keeper of useless information
Though some americans do eat fast food frequently the majority can't afford it or have better things to do with their money. In my house going to Mcdonalds once a month is a treat. But it is true that eating healthy is far more expensive in america than eating food that will kill you. Living on a food stamp budget while eatiing healthy is literally impossible. There was a documentary where two master chefs tried and they ended up having to cheat to do it.
Cyanomega
Well-Known Member
@Rassah Sorry, it just doesn't make any sense to me. I might be getting this wrong but it seems like you are saying one unhealthy meal out of three means that most Americans are eating unhealthy. Like that somehow shows that Americans are in general eating in a unhealthy manner. Honestly, most people move around enough in a day to burn off any unneeded calories. And that's not really true of the first and third meal. What exactly do you eat for breakfast? I'm gonna guess it's oatmeal or cereal. And unless you still have some sort of soft spot for sugary cereal I'd guess it's something heathy like granola or something of the sort. Even if you have the time to make a stack of pancakes or a omelette, I'm assuming that's a day off kind of a thing. And as for dinner I somehow doubt you are making something deep fried or a fattening casserole or whatever. As for kidney stones, I've had the unfortunate pleasure of passing 6 and my diet isn't exactly full of fatty foods or processed foods.
GarthTheWereWolf
Captious Lycanthrope of Forum Legend
Just like to point out that most people don't move around enough to burn off the unnecessary calories when they eat crappy meals. Its a common myth people seem to hold that if you work out during the day it makes it ok to eat food thats bad for you since they negate each other. The truth of the matter is is that a heavy nonstop workout for 30 minutes only burns 200-300 calories. One bran muffin or a few Gatorades immediately negates the caloric deficit from working out. Highly processed foods are even more calories than that.
FrostHusky81
The Mercenary
I disagree. American food is unhealthy simply because, it's not food at all.
I scan at least 200+ boxes of lunchables at work everyday. The back of a lunchables box is almost completely filled with ingredients. Chemicals, upon chemicals, to the point where it looses it's ability to be considered food. Cockroaches won't even touch processed food for christ's sake. If that doesn't tell you something about the American diet, I don't know what does.
What I hate is how easily people are fooled by the labels on food or drinks saying, fat free, sugar free, no sugar added, etc. People think it's a good thing, but it's not. Whatever was taken out, is replaced with processed crap that's worse than what the original contained. Things like bacon fat, are actually very beneficial to your health.
Then there's the food pyramid, the biggest joke on the planet. Grains are not essential to the human diet at all.
It's almost painful to see people engage in these diets, and then revert back to their previous condition because people will most of the time choose convenience, over health. Now I understand that a healthy diet isn't easy. Go to a store and you can see that beef from a cow that was fed GMO's is much less expensive, than that from a grassfed cow. Buying things like grassfed beef, and organic fruits and vegetables is not easy on the wallet that's for sure. But I suppose in the end, the deciding factor is how much you value your health.
Willow
FAF's #1 Terrorist
Compared to other parts of the world such as Europe, yes, American food is a little unhealthier. I don't think it's entirely the fault of GMOs, because some are beneficial to crops and not necessarily harmful to humans or their health. It has more to do with how we process food and the fact that the majority of the population can't afford organic foods because it's more expensive. Like even the amount of sugar isn't the actual issue but rather the fact that it's mostly a sugar substitute so to speak (high fructose corn syrup) which is bad for you. It's actually worse for you than sugar I believe. The documentary Fed Up does a pretty good job of highlighting the things wrong with our food.
Interestingly enough my friend spent a few months abroad in Austria and for about a month after he came back he couldn't tolerate American food anymore.
Interestingly enough my friend spent a few months abroad in Austria and for about a month after he came back he couldn't tolerate American food anymore.
Rassah
Well-Known Member
I am talking about sodium. Salt. If your daily allowable intake is 800mg, eat just one of those microwave lunches for dinner, and you just consumed anywhere from 800 to 1000mg of sodium, which is about your daily allowance of it. You can eat plenty of calories and fats and other things for breakfast and lunch, but with that one lunch meal, your sodium allowance is all used up, since ANY salt in them will put you over the top, if that microwaved lunch itself didn't. Processed meats can do that too. So anything extra, means too much salt in your diet, which means higher blood pressure, and possibly kidney stones.
Regarding those kidney stones, your body believes sodium is more important that calcium, so when your kidneys reabsorb nutrients out of your filtered urine to take back whatever they think is important, they give much higher priority to sodium than calcium. If you eat low sodium foods, your kidneys will absorb all the excess sodium, and get to work on absorbing the excess calcium. If you eat high sodium foods, your kidneys will be too busy absorbing all that sodium to get to the calcium, and the calcium will keep building up until it forms a stone. I'm surprised your doctor didn't discuss this with you, considering how many you have had. (unless you've had uric instead of calcium stones, in which case there's nothing you can do)
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Byron
Moshi Moshi, Byron Desu~
I thought fructose was better for you than sucrose because it doesn't have glucose in it.
Derin Darkpaw
Member
Ok Argonne whether or not GMOs are banned is irrelevant to question of are GMOs good. Anything can be banned in a country if their is enough public outcry about it and it should be obvious to anyone that people some times get worked up over nothing. Which is exactly the case with GMOs.
O and how about instead of Googling GMOs and finding articles written by any dumbass with a webpage we look at the actual research.
http://www.fass.org/page.asp?pageID=52&autotry=true&ULnotkn=true
O look tons and tons of actual research papers, done by actual scientists, all of which show nothing bad happening to all the animals that have been fed GMOs over a long period of time
No please don't. Selective breeding is way scarier then genetic manipulation. In selective breeding we take a bunch of genes, smash them together at random, and hope for the best. In genetic manipulation we take out and selectively replace a very small number genes with highly predictable results. Selective breeding is what gave us killer bees and if that's not a biological horror story about unintended consequences I don't know what is.
How proteins and other simple molecules are produced and the function of DNA and RNA in a cell should be known by most people graduating from lower education in most Western countries. Teens in my state are even supposed to be able to go as far as to tell you how many amino acids there are, how many codons there are, how many of the codons specify an amino acid, that we can determine what a protein is by the amino acids in it, and how we determine what amino acids are in a protein.
How and why the immune system works is also almost universally taught in these countries. In my state, teens must know about the two types of antibodies and the types of immune cells, how the immune system determines if something is a threat, and how the immune system deals with perceived threats.
From there, you need to know what genetic engineering is, which is also taught in most of those same countries. Any elementary school science textbook, even, will tell you that it is the deliberate modification of an organism's DNA. High school textbooks usually change that to say "an organism's coding DNA."
This happens with varying depth, but any person who has graduated high school should very well understand that most of the things people accuse GMOs of are just things invented by people who don't understand genetics, immune response, and other parts of basic biology. No Google needed.
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GamingGal
Member
Oh the GMO topic is raging still? I'm not saying they're bad for you or good for you, my opinion is just that I don't trust something fully that we don't know what the long term effect could be. I prefer to eat as natural and organic as possible, which sadly isn't that often. I believe the closer to the farm (an organic natural one at that) the better for the body.
As for the argument that most Americans eat unhealthy. They do. Fast food is a booming business for a reason. I mean, hell, McDonald's have worked their way into hospitals for crying out loud. We want what is easy and cheap. Why spend a few dollars on a head of lettuce when those same dollars could get you a Big Mac? At work I know plenty of people who swing by a bagel shop or Starbucks or a gyro shop for food because it's quick and close by. I used to eat Taco Bell on a frequent basis because it was cheap and I'm a poor college kid. So, yes, Americans do tend to eat unhealthy because unhealthy is cheaper and quicker.
As for the argument that most Americans eat unhealthy. They do. Fast food is a booming business for a reason. I mean, hell, McDonald's have worked their way into hospitals for crying out loud. We want what is easy and cheap. Why spend a few dollars on a head of lettuce when those same dollars could get you a Big Mac? At work I know plenty of people who swing by a bagel shop or Starbucks or a gyro shop for food because it's quick and close by. I used to eat Taco Bell on a frequent basis because it was cheap and I'm a poor college kid. So, yes, Americans do tend to eat unhealthy because unhealthy is cheaper and quicker.
Derin Darkpaw
Member
GamingGal we do know what the long term affects are and the answer to that is nothing unusual. Here I will post the link again.
http://www.fass.org/page.asp?pageID=52&autotry=true&ULnotkn=true
These are all studies about the affects of GMOs on animals that are fed them and the results conclusively prove that there are no unexpected health consequences in these cases. I understand and respect a desire for caution when it comes to new technology. Which is why studies like the above are done and why we have three different government regulatory agencies testing any new GMO crops coming. We are approaching this technology with the caution and respect it deserves so there is no reason to be afraid.
SodaBubbles
I will deliver the explosion
That's why you get Healthy Choice meals, Rassah, it's way less than 800 (I know this because one of my housemates is on high blood pressure meds, and I have to buy the groceries. He looooooves him some fast food, which I've been fighting like mad to get him off of. Of course, since we like to eat out together as a family unit... my soy issue that I finally nailed down recently has cut the fast food visits down appreciably... of course by this point I can't get him down where he could go off meds because he does shift work for 13 hrs a day in rotating day/night sequences and the caffeine he needs means his bp is still going to be high).
Aside from that- I've worked to keep my sodium under 1k as much as possible and drink a shit ton of water.
ps Garth- that's why it's best to work out for an hour every day. I know- I do it. Sure they say "oh yeah you only need to exercise 30 mins every other day to be healthy" but if you want to seriously work off calories, it's not just cutting sugar out, it's learning what to do in order to burn the most calories that you need to while also making sure you don't exceed your limit. When I first started my weight loss plan 3 years ago, I was walking 1hr a day AND swimming 1hr a day 5 days a week. Now I just walk an hour a day, and do weights every other. I still lost 67lbs. Which I am proud of lol. Sorry, I know that has no bearing here. XD
Basically being healthy is the same here as anywhere else, you have to put your mind to it! It's not magic, you can't wave a wand and say "look I'm healthy!" it takes effort, and willingness to change, and commitment as well as consistency. I'm lazy as hell and I'm successfully doing it. Sure I still eat the occasional piece of cake, or grab a bottle of soda, but that's how my personal effort goes- I don't deny myself, I just have some, and just occasionally. Man it's nice when it's a treat, I tell you what.
Aside from that- I've worked to keep my sodium under 1k as much as possible and drink a shit ton of water.
ps Garth- that's why it's best to work out for an hour every day. I know- I do it. Sure they say "oh yeah you only need to exercise 30 mins every other day to be healthy" but if you want to seriously work off calories, it's not just cutting sugar out, it's learning what to do in order to burn the most calories that you need to while also making sure you don't exceed your limit. When I first started my weight loss plan 3 years ago, I was walking 1hr a day AND swimming 1hr a day 5 days a week. Now I just walk an hour a day, and do weights every other. I still lost 67lbs. Which I am proud of lol. Sorry, I know that has no bearing here. XD
Basically being healthy is the same here as anywhere else, you have to put your mind to it! It's not magic, you can't wave a wand and say "look I'm healthy!" it takes effort, and willingness to change, and commitment as well as consistency. I'm lazy as hell and I'm successfully doing it. Sure I still eat the occasional piece of cake, or grab a bottle of soda, but that's how my personal effort goes- I don't deny myself, I just have some, and just occasionally. Man it's nice when it's a treat, I tell you what.
Rassah
Well-Known Member
Healthy Choice is expensive as hell though. So, I figured if I'm going to pay that much, I'd rather *walk* about a mile to a Subway, and buy a $3.50 6" or a $5 footlong to eat half today half tomorrow, and get some fresh veggies and variety in there (back when I used to work, anyway).
Btw, with McDonald's, I feel like I can eat healthy there too, now, by ordering a grilled chicken wrap (full of veggies), substituting fries for a salad, and getting a large sweet tea "half-cut" (where they mix sweet and unsweet so it's nowhere near as sugary). Low fat chicken that hasn't been processed, tons of veggies, and lots of fluids, and it costs the same as the regular meal.
Btw, with McDonald's, I feel like I can eat healthy there too, now, by ordering a grilled chicken wrap (full of veggies), substituting fries for a salad, and getting a large sweet tea "half-cut" (where they mix sweet and unsweet so it's nowhere near as sugary). Low fat chicken that hasn't been processed, tons of veggies, and lots of fluids, and it costs the same as the regular meal.