Are Animal Trainings Abusive?

[InfinityZ]

This topic might not sound so happy, but because i saw one of my friends at school watching a Japanese show on Youtube about training dogs, and i felt really bad for those dogs because i can see them looked obviously stressed out, being pulled and forced by the people violently for doing things, the video absolutely didn't look happy at all.

What do you guys think about it? I know i only talked about dogs here, but i still remember many videos about abusive trainings for animal in the zoo or stuffs like that.

 

[-..Legacy..-]

You're slathering a very wide spectrum with a limited range of responses, so I'll enjoy watching this.

 

[Crimcyan]

*hits blunt*
Are parents abusive for making their kids learn manners

I don't know man, you are basically basing all trainers off one video you saw and this is such a wide open question.

 

[Wolveon]

I guess it depends on the means?

 

[Scales42]

It really depends on so many aspects, that its almost impossible to answer that question, but in general I wouldnt say training is abuse, but making abusive training is definitely happening sometimes.

 

[Loffi]

Training a dog is necessary for both the dog and owner to be happy. Dogs love consistency and they love to work and be praised. Training should be fun for them. Many owners get frustrated or don't know how to properly train their dogs and it can lead to abuse. That doesn't mean that all training is bad, some people are just shitty.

 

[BahgDaddy]

Training is a tool. An untrained dog will be a useless dog. It depends entirely on the situation.

 

[quoting_mungo]

Arguably most effective (and least stressful for the animal) training method is positive reinforcement/negative punishment training. That basically means you reward wanted behavior and remove something the animal wants (often just your attention) if it does something you don't want it to do - turning your back to a dog that's jumping up on you is one example of negative punishment, as well as being very close to how dogs themselves address similar behavior.

Most intelligent animals require mental stimulation to thrive, and training them to perform tasks that also aid in their care is a convenient and effective way of doing that. In many cases, being well trained can also make the animal safer - I have taught my cats that it's I, not them, that determines when they're let back down when I'm carrying them. This means that should something happen that requires me to get them outside quickly, without time to harness them, they'll not flail or struggle to get down and possibly get lost or injured as a result.

There are tons of bad ways to train animals. Doesn't make training inherently abusive, just shows people sometimes either don't know better or just don't care to restrain themselves if the bad way seems to get quicker results, no matter what long term ill effects there may be. There are similar principles in play with child rearing and education.

 

[Simo]

What ever happened to Cesar Millan, the Dog Whisperer?

 

[Ramjet]

What ever happened to Cesar Millan, the Dog Whisperer?

He's busy...

Also,proper dog training is not abuse or inhumane...Dogs are pack animals that need a leader..

No such thing as shit dogs,just shit owners...

 

[modfox]

m8 i gave my dog treats for rolling on his back.... then the RSPCA rolled up on my door

 

[Telnac]

I voted no, but there are exceptions of course.

 

[quoting_mungo]

What ever happened to Cesar Millan, the Dog Whisperer?

Hopefully he passed into obscurity where he belongs. :V His methods are not based on best understanding of dog psychology, but rather on antiquated dominance theory that doesn't actually mirror how dogs function socially. While they can have limited success with them in the short term, long-term... they're not a good idea.

Victoria Stilwell is a vastly better dog trainer role model.

 

[Crimcyan]

He's busy...

Also,proper dog training is not abuse or inhumane...Dogs are pack animals that need a leader..

No such thing as shit dogs,just shit owners...

I was hoping for this to show up XD

 

[Foenixblood]

I guess for the most part, animal training is humane as long as it is done within reasonable guidelines

Arguably most effective (and least stressful for the animal) training method is positive reinforcement/negative punishment training. That basically means you reward wanted behavior and remove something the animal wants (often just your attention) if it does something you don't want it to do - turning your back to a dog that's jumping up on you is one example of negative punishment, as well as being very close to how dogs themselves address similar behavior.

Most intelligent animals require mental stimulation to thrive, and training them to perform tasks that also aid in their care is a convenient and effective way of doing that. In many cases, being well trained can also make the animal safer - I have taught my cats that it's I, not them, that determines when they're let back down when I'm carrying them. This means that should something happen that requires me to get them outside quickly, without time to harness them, they'll not flail or struggle to get down and possibly get lost or injured as a result.

There are tons of bad ways to train animals. Doesn't make training inherently abusive, just shows people sometimes either don't know better or just don't care to restrain themselves if the bad way seems to get quicker results, no matter what long term ill effects there may be. There are similar principles in play with child rearing and education.

Just like you said, there are plenty of ways to train animals, some more effective than others, but there has to be line that says what is and not acceptable training methods. I personally seen the results of abusive training on a dog, and boy, its not pretty at all. Don't want to go into details about what the dog went through, but as a result, it completely flipped out whenever someone grabbed their shoes. The dog also had no ability to understand any commands at all.

 

[Ramjet]

I was hoping for this to show up XD

Glad I didn't disappoint

 

[quoting_mungo]

Just like you said, there are plenty of ways to train animals, some more effective than others, but there has to be line that says what is and not acceptable training methods. I personally seen the results of abusive training on a dog, and boy, its not pretty at all. Don't want to go into details about what the dog went through, but as a result, it completely flipped out whenever someone grabbed their shoes. The dog also had no ability to understand any commands at all.

Absolutely, there is a line where "training" crosses over into straight animal abuse. Generally speaking, you should not be striking the animal as part of regular training, and minimize the amount of positive punishment (adding something unpleasant) you do as much as possible. Striking the animal with any type of implement is practically always unacceptable.

I've seen animals that get so caught up in what they're currently doing ("play" biting hard enough to draw blood - not malicious, but not something that can be allowed to continue) that verbal commands won't snap them out of it, and I've worked with horses, so I can't say categorically that a gentle bop or a well-timed smack might not sometimes be motivated. But they're not desirable, and they should definitely never be dealt in anger.

(Speaking of horses, I will note that appropriate use of a riding crop/whip is not violent from the horse's point of view - it's just another signal to communicate your wishes. Obviously they can be misused, but appropriate use also does not include using them as punishment.)

 

[Deleted member 82554]

If training animals is abusive so is training humans, yet we glorify the skills we acquire.

I see no problem here.

 

[Diretooth]

As long as you're not hitting, abusing, or otherwise harming the animal, then the training is not abusive. You can emulate dominant behaviors to establish dominance as long as the actions do not injure the animal, and as long as you know what you are doing and understand the long-term effects of your actions, as well as know how the training will go from experience, then it should be fine.
I stress that understanding what needs to be done is important here, one instance of bad behavior does not mean all instances are by default bad, a show showing a bunch of people being shitty owners or trainers does not mean all training is bad, it just shows those people are shitty owners or trainers.

 

[Pipistrele]

It depends.

 

[n1ghtmar3w0lf]

if the trainer is hitting the animal and or casuing harm to it then thats abuse,and the animal will show how it feels about people to

 

[ResolutionBlaze]

No, because not all training is abusive.

 

[ResolutionBlaze]

if the trainer is hitting the animal and or casuing harm to it then thats abuse,and the animal will show how it feels about people to

It depends on what the animal is being punished for.

I'm no expert with animals but I know how we train dogs. If the dog is very bad or does something very bad, a smack on the rear let's them know you aren't happy. Sometimes that isn't even necessary; eventually they hear it in your voice if you're mad.

But hitting in itself isn't abuse. Abuse has to be physical harm that is either excessive, unnecessary, and/or serves no purpose.

 

[BahgDaddy]

It depends on what the animal is being punished for.

I'm no expert with animals but I know how we train dogs. If the dog is very bad or does something very bad, a smack on the rear let's them know you aren't happy. Sometimes that isn't even necessary; eventually they hear it in your voice if you're mad.

But hitting in itself isn't abuse. Abuse has to be physical harm that is either excessive, unnecessary, and/or serves no purpose.

Yeah, sometimes a light slap or something might be allowable. Some dog breeds you shouldn't even do that much, though, like with German Shepherds or Briards, which are very smart and also very easily offended.

 

[Yakamaru]

Eh, no. Animal training is not abusive. Cesar Millan shows it. Other trainers show it.

If we're talking dogs, they are pack animals. They need a leader to follow.

1. It's an animal
2. It's a dog
3. It's that specific breed
4. It's your friend

And you treat/train your dog in that order. People tend to skip 2 and 3, which why you see so many morons who have zero control over their dogs. Zero training/discipline will net you a dog that won't listen. Simple as that.

You don't ignore negative/unwanted behaviour. You address it with discipline, telling the dog that sort of thing is not wanted.