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Are girls treated better?

TeenageAngst

Banned
Banned
You learn something every day...

But when I said "no woman" I meant the majority. Like if you were to poll 1000 women on who they would rather date, Dude McNormalguy or Micah Lightloafers, the results are going to be skewed. Sure, for short term flings it could be okay because they probably have a lot more in common but for a long term relationship, a guy who needs emotional support or can't provide financially is S.O.L.
 

Butters Shikkon

Patron Saint of Queers
ive done it too its not outside the vail of oddities. Ive had sex with two homos, its not like its imposabuuuu

I've got gay parents...a male and a female. The realm of impossible is my bitch!
 

Bambi

Member
I always hold doors open for women, and sometimes for men, but I won't go out of my way for a man. I always open the car door for a woman, and I take off my hat when a woman enters the room.
Now, why is that exactly? o_O

You sure it had everything to do with your up-bringing, and not just the fact that being more polite to women also increases your chances of being noticed by them?
 

CrazyLee

Biggest buttplug ever
Ohh I want to reply to Vee so bad but there's just too much TL;DR there.

I can kinda get at what the OP's getting at. I figured this would start out with everyone accusing the OP of being sexist or something. He seems to be more talking about the attitude that women are fragile and need to be treated like china (unless they're your wife in which case you can punch them for not making a sandwich :V), and men are tough and agressive and violent and can take whatever abuse they get and should take it without crying or whining.

Sadly sexism and outdated gender roles still exist today and are reinforced by the media and society, like soft (Dove soap, ect) commercials for women, and "manly" commercials like that retarded Dr Pepper 10 calorie commercial (CAUSE 10 CALORIES IS MANLY RITE? :V).

Women still have it tougher than men due to sexism, though. A cis-male will have a far easier time finding a job and will still get paid a lot better than a woman, for example.


The one time I can think of men being expected to be manly and tough tends to come up when an effiminate gay guy is brought up in a conservative household. After the child hits puberty and starts expressing in a more feminine way the father will expect him to "man up" and stop acting like a chick, and I've heard some pretty sad stories of gay guys in the fandom being treated like shit by their fathers (to the point of physical abuse) for being too girly. :C
I've also heard of women having problems in society for being too manly, and being called a dyke or having trouble finding jobs and stuff because of it. Gender roles suck ass.
 

TeenageAngst

Banned
Banned
I'm a proponent of the "man up" philosophy. There's a difference between being effeminate and being a wimp. It's okay if you cry during an emotional movie if you're also able to explain why the .228 used by NATO forces is a stupid decision. You can cook and clean, but you also need to change your own oil. You can drink white wine one night and drink Jack Daniels the other, dress well but grow a beard, etc.
 

Conker

Destroyer of Nazi Teddy Bears
I'm a proponent of the "man up" philosophy. There's a difference between being effeminate and being a wimp. It's okay if you cry during an emotional movie if you're also able to explain why the .228 used by NATO forces is a stupid decision. You can cook and clean, but you also need to change your own oil. You can drink white wine one night and drink Jack Daniels the other, dress well but grow a beard, etc.
You've an interesting set of examples there. I know I can't explain why the .228 used by NATO forces is stupid, but I don't cry during emotional movies, so I guess I'm exempt there. I don't know how to change my own oil, but at least that's a useful skill for people to have. We've just gotten to a point where it's not necessary to know as it's a service that can be done for as little as 20 bucks.

I agree with you on the "man up" bit though, even if that philosophy/phrasing is inherently sexist, though at this point I'd say its gender neutral. I can't imagine it was coined as a gender neutral term many a year ago tough.
 

TeenageAngst

Banned
Banned
.228 has no stopping power. You can't legally use a .228 to shoot anything larger than small game while hunting because of the risk of merely wounding the animal and having it escape, which is pretty inhumane, and we're using it to try to take down full grown men on a battlefield? There's something wrong there. We need something bigger, maybe not the 30-06 of the BAR but something that'll put a man down. Changing your own oil is nice because you know 100% it's done right that way. It's okay to pay someone else to change your oil for convenience so long as you know how to do it properly and can watch them do it. You know, so they don't use an impact on the drain plug like a lazy Jiffy Lube dude might, strip the threads in the oil pan, and cause an expensive leak. Or forget to put oil in, I had that happen once.

See, now if anyone gives me crap about bawling my eyes out at the end of Children of Men, I can point to that paragraph as proof I have a pair of testicles. For women it's the exact opposite. She changes her own oil and drinks straight Jack Daniels? If she's an avid watcher of Elton Brown or needs a box of tissues to get through The Land Before Time no one can pull out any derogatory labels. Come to think of it I love myself some Good Eats too... but I have a beard so it's all good.
 

Conker

Destroyer of Nazi Teddy Bears
.228 has no stopping power. You can't legally use a .228 to shoot anything larger than small game while hunting because of the risk of merely wounding the animal and having it escape, which is pretty inhumane, and we're using it to try to take down full grown men on a battlefield? There's something wrong there. We need something bigger, maybe not the 30-06 of the BAR but something that'll put a man down. Changing your own oil is nice because you know 100% it's done right that way. It's okay to pay someone else to change your oil for convenience so long as you know how to do it properly and can watch them do it. You know, so they don't use an impact on the drain plug like a lazy Jiffy Lube dude might, strip the threads in the oil pan, and cause an expensive leak. Or forget to put oil in, I had that happen once.

See, now if anyone gives me crap about bawling my eyes out at the end of Children of Men, I can point to that paragraph as proof I have a pair of testicles. For women it's the exact opposite. She changes her own oil and drinks straight Jack Daniels? If she's an avid watcher of Elton Brown or needs a box of tissues to get through The Land Before Time no one can pull out any derogatory labels. Come to think of it I love myself some Good Eats too... but I have a beard so it's all good.
Wouldn't it be easier to point to your beard or your testicles to prove that you are a man? I don't think anyone would doubt your claims there, even if you do know something about guns and cars.
 

Butters Shikkon

Patron Saint of Queers
I'm a proponent of the "man up" philosophy. There's a difference between being effeminate and being a wimp. It's okay if you cry during an emotional movie if you're also able to explain why the .228 used by NATO forces is a stupid decision. You can cook and clean, but you also need to change your own oil. You can drink white wine one night and drink Jack Daniels the other, dress well but grow a beard, etc.

Even the girls...?
 

Oly

Member
How is cooking and cleaning effeminate? That is fucking stupid. Shit needs to be clean and orderly to be efficient and not get ruined; food needs to get made. So being lazy is manly? Most people don't enjoy cleaning, and cooking is fun as hell and can be quite difficult. Plus, I will again point out that most of the worlds best chefs are and historically have been considered men.

I love cooking and don't have a clue how to do anything with a car other than drive it(and not manual transmission, i understand the concept but have never driven one); I'm also hairy as hell and have a long full beard and look completely masculine. I often dress what I consider well - button up shirts with a vest, all prim and neat, combed hair and beard - although by other people's standards maybe not so much. I also know dick all about guns. I barely ever drink because it isn't usually very fun to me - although when I do choose to my preference is vodka or whiskey neat. I hate beer. I have a strong interest in looking at pictures of cute corgis and shibas, and a moderate interest in fashion, as well as being able to sew decently well. I know a fair bit about using makeup. I've dyed my hair, more than once. I've even on occasion worn feminine clothing, although it's never been a consistent habit.

I'm also into romance, don't like boasting about sex like I've seen implied men are supposed to, I tend to be submissive(though not exclusively) in relationships, I think discussing emotion is important in a relationship...

Does this make me effeminate still? Do i need to man up? do I score enough 'masculinity points'? where does the buck stop? if i was less masculine looking would it change things? if I had a more or less feminine voice? if I dressed more neatly/was more fastidious with my grooming? would I still be masculine in a dress? would I still be feminine in a well worn pair of work overalls?

It's stupid to classify most things into being masculine and feminine as a rule. Being emotional isn't feminine. Being able to keep your living space clean or make yourself a meal that requires more than pushing buttons on a microwave, that's not feminine. And knowing shit about cars or technology or guns isn't masculine. If you disagree, you're an asshole. Having tits and a vagina is feminine; having a dick and testes is masculine. Everything else is wholly fucking subjective.
 

Butters Shikkon

Patron Saint of Queers
Having tits and a vagina is feminine; having a dick and testes is masculine. Everything else is wholly fucking subjective.

...I will have your babies, Oly. This ^ all the way.
 

TeenageAngst

Banned
Banned
How is cooking and cleaning effeminate? That is fucking stupid. Shit needs to be clean and orderly to be efficient and not get ruined; food needs to get made. So being lazy is manly? Most people don't enjoy cleaning, and cooking is fun as hell and can be quite difficult. Plus, I will again point out that most of the worlds best chefs are and historically have been considered men.

I love cooking and don't have a clue how to do anything with a car other than drive it(and not manual transmission, i understand the concept but have never driven one); I'm also hairy as hell and have a long full beard and look completely masculine. I often dress what I consider well - button up shirts with a vest, all prim and neat, combed hair and beard - although by other people's standards maybe not so much. I also know dick all about guns. I barely ever drink because it isn't usually very fun to me - although when I do choose to my preference is vodka or whiskey neat. I hate beer. I have a strong interest in looking at pictures of cute corgis and shibas, and a moderate interest in fashion, as well as being able to sew decently well. I know a fair bit about using makeup. I've dyed my hair, more than once. I've even on occasion worn feminine clothing, although it's never been a consistent habit.

I'm also into romance, don't like boasting about sex like I've seen implied men are supposed to, I tend to be submissive(though not exclusively) in relationships, I think discussing emotion is important in a relationship...

Does this make me effeminate still? Do i need to man up? do I score enough 'masculinity points'? where does the buck stop? if i was less masculine looking would it change things? if I had a more or less feminine voice? if I dressed more neatly/was more fastidious with my grooming? would I still be masculine in a dress? would I still be feminine in a well worn pair of work overalls?

It's stupid to classify most things into being masculine and feminine as a rule. Being emotional isn't feminine. Being able to keep your living space clean or make yourself a meal that requires more than pushing buttons on a microwave, that's not feminine. And knowing shit about cars or technology or guns isn't masculine. If you disagree, you're an asshole. Having tits and a vagina is feminine; having a dick and testes is masculine. Everything else is wholly fucking subjective.

I'm a self-proclaimed asshole, I prefer the moniker dago or punk though. As a man, there's just certain things you gotta know. How to jump a car, change a tire, fix a busted electrical outlet, fight and more importantly when to fight, lose gracefully, hold your liquor, stand up to and for friends, forgive enemies, you gotta watch sports, drink beer, etc. Yeah, not everyone is going to know everything of course, but you gotta at least take a whack at it. We live in a culture where personal responsibility and independence are casualties lying in a ditch. If you have the personal responsibility and self reliance covered, I couldn't care less if you dressed like Bruno, let alone just acted effeminate. When it gets right down to it, that's what being a man is about, taking care of yourself and being able to look out for others. That and a pair of testicles.
 

Oly

Member
I'm a self-proclaimed asshole, I prefer the moniker dago or punk though. As a man, there's just certain things you gotta know. How to jump a car, change a tire, fix a busted electrical outlet, fight and more importantly when to fight, lose gracefully, hold your liquor, stand up to and for friends, forgive enemies, you gotta watch sports, drink beer, etc. Yeah, not everyone is going to know everything of course, but you gotta at least take a whack at it. We live in a culture where personal responsibility and independence are casualties lying in a ditch. If you have the personal responsibility and self reliance covered, I couldn't care less if you dressed like Bruno, let alone just acted effeminate. When it gets right down to it, that's what being a man is about, taking care of yourself and being able to look out for others. That and a pair of testicles.

Taking care of yourself and others and taking responsibility is what being a good person is about, male or female or something in between. EVERYONE should know basic survival skills and how to maintain and fix things and how avoid being an ego and blah blah.

I don't know the first three things(could probably figure the first two out given some time, third one I'd be too scared of fucking things up further or killing myself to try on my own), if I was to get in a fight I would play it dirty as fuck - nut shots, cheap shots, eye gouging, kicking when down - because if I get in a fight I just want to end it as quickly as possible and make damn sure they're not getting up to come after me again(thankfully, never had to put that idea into practice, hopefully never will because I'd feel awful about harming another person in such a way), I don't know how well I can really hold my liquor since I only ever drink until I feel lightly buzzed and then stop(but I can get wasted as fuck on psychedelics and pot and still handle myself and remain lucid and responsible for my actions), had to stand up for friends once or twice when in grade school but have avoided being in situations that would require standing up to people since then, forgive shit but certainly don't fucking forget or give second chances, sports are dull as hell to watch - although I don't mind playing futbol - and I've already said how I feel about beer...

So I'm not a real man then? I fail most of your stated list. :U

also, never heard dago before but being a punk doesn't mean being an asshole. if anything true punk is about respecting people unless they demonstrate they aren't deserving of it. being an asshole is being overly crass, hostile and/or cruel for no reason. punk is about being yourself in the face of assholes telling you what to be.
 

TeenageAngst

Banned
Banned
I have no respect for people who fight dirty, so I have no respect for you. Usually a fight is nothing major, a drunken brawl or a shoving/fistfight over something. If you fight dirty in a fight it's going to escalate *fast*. Going for the eyes and kicking in the nuts gets knives and guns drawn, bystanders get hostile, you will get your ass kicked. I've never gone looking for a fight but I've had to deal with them and I've never fought dirty, even when I ended up losing. Fortunately no one's tried doing that to me either. Never do that unless it's absolutely life or death because it proves you're inexperienced and it's the first thing you're opponent is prepared for you to do. That combined means it'll probably not work and you'll have bought yourself a one way trip to the emergency room or worse.

I hate beer and I don't like sports. When I was in PA visiting my friend his dad bought a case of beer, handed me a cold one, and invited us to watch the game with him. I didn't say "Oh, I don't like beer" or "I'm not a football fan" I took the beer, sat down, and shot the breeze for a few hours about life while watching an Eagles game. I respect the man and I was grateful he was trying to include me in something he enjoyed, and ya know what, I had a good time. Something tells me you wouldn't have done the same thing.

Are you a real man? Not for me to say. Obviously it's a rhetorical question so I'm assuming you certainly think you are.

As I already said, you lost my respect. And don't go trying to define what punk is, you're nailing jello to a board.
 

Hinalle K.

Banned
Banned
I'm not too fond of beards, hate beer , can't stand watching sports and can't fix a busted electrical outlet either.
Clearly I should have been born with a vagina, huh teenage?
Do you also believe girls are required to enjoy soap operas , ballet, know how to walk in high heels or some other shit to be called women? Any requirements at all to be perceived as a real woman in your eyes?
If not, what's up with the stupid double standards?
 

Oly

Member
I have no respect for people who fight dirty, so I have no respect for you. Usually a fight is nothing major, a drunken brawl or a shoving/fistfight over something. If you fight dirty in a fight it's going to escalate *fast*. Going for the eyes and kicking in the nuts gets knives and guns drawn, bystanders get hostile, you will get your ass kicked. I've never gone looking for a fight but I've had to deal with them and I've never fought dirty, even when I ended up losing. Fortunately no one's tried doing that to me either. Never do that unless it's absolutely life or death because it proves you're inexperienced and it's the first thing you're opponent is prepared for you to do. That combined means it'll probably not work and you'll have bought yourself a one way trip to the emergency room or worse.

I hate beer and I don't like sports. When I was in PA visiting my friend his dad bought a case of beer, handed me a cold one, and invited us to watch the game with him. I didn't say "Oh, I don't like beer" or "I'm not a football fan" I took the beer, sat down, and shot the breeze for a few hours about life while watching an Eagles game. I respect the man and I was grateful he was trying to include me in something he enjoyed, and ya know what, I had a good time. Something tells me you wouldn't have done the same thing.

Are you a real man? Not for me to say. Obviously it's a rhetorical question so I'm assuming you certainly think you are.

As I already said, you lost my respect. And don't go trying to define what punk is, you're nailing jello to a board.

Yeah well in all cases I'd rather run than fight. I don't give a fuck if it gets me called a coward or any bullshit like that. If I'm fighting back, it's because it's a last resort, and if it's a last resort, fuck you I'm not being fair. I've dealt with drunk, pointlessly aggressive assholes plenty before, and have managed to avoid getting into fights. The very few 'fights' I've been in were when I was much much younger(last time I was like 14, 15 I think), and got my ass soundly kicked for mouthing off when I should have just walked away because there was no reason to even respond. If I hadn't felt so cocky and wanted to snark off I wouldn't have gotten into any fights.
So I learned pretty fast that if a fight can be avoided, it should be, and if it can't it's probably in my best interest to end it as swiftly and permanently as possible. Also: I did take some limited martial arts when I was younger and one of the first things I was taught is that if you can't run away from a situation, you should end it as quickly and surely as you can, by any means necessary, and then run.
I also don't consider someone shoving me as a fight. If someone shoves me because they're drunk and pushy, I'll do my best to ignore and escape the situation as swiftly as possible. It's never come to that because I just avoid drunk people and the kind of areas they're likely to be as much as I can, and I keep to myself in public unless I have good reason not to.
Hell, I have busked many times on teh streets of Toronto at 3am, and the worst shit that happened was a drunk guy trying to hit my snare with his dick. I just pulled it away, smiled and said 'no man, not cool.' he offered to pay and I said 'nope, sorry, no cocks allowed on my snare.' It was laughed off and all was fine.

Besides, I live in Canada, people don't carry guns here. Knives maybe, but I'm fairly confident in my ability to dodge and disarm if I absolutely have to; that's if running is absolutely not an option. I have studied unarmed defense against armed attackers, because I am overly paranoid about being jumped; I even worry about it now in a tiny town with virtually no crime rate that I know of. So no, I'm not completely inexperienced, I just have no mercy for anyone who decides it's a good idea to attack me. And part of the reason is because in such a situation I know I am just going to go for the most efficient incapacitation I feel I can get away with, no matter how cheap it is, since if it comes to blows in my mind I've already failed at doing what I consider the honorable thing and avoiding or diffusing the situation prior to violence. And I know I'm probably going to get very angry very fast, at myself as much as my attacker, and that makes me liable to kick their fucking face in while they're down both out of anger and to make sure they fucking stay down.

second paragraph: I'd have politely declined the beer, said thank you for the offer, and still joined them if it was a necessity in the situation. I'd probably have been fairly quiet the whole time since I'm usually not very talkative around people I don't know; I usually only respond to questions, chip in as briefly as I can if I know something relevant to the conversation, and don't usually try and push the conversation in directions I might enjoy if they're not headed that way naturally, since I'm aware my interests are, to most people, probably very strange, boring, or something they have no clue about that would be way too awkward to bring them up to speed on in the course of a normal conversation.
Most people don't care or have the requisite knowledge to discuss the nuances of high distortion on various types of kick drums and their usage in various kinds of music, or the details of time-travel mechanics in Homestuck and the implications thereof on the plot, and I have no interests in trying to make them care or try to give an in-depth explanation - I've gone that conversational path before and it has never ended in anything but me feeling horribly awkward and the other people in the conversation commandeering it back into shit they actually care about or understand.
So yeah, out of respect I just keep quiet and only interject when I have to or have something I feel isn't horribly awkward to express.
Also: no amount of respect for anyone is going to make me drink a beverage I think smells and tastes like vomit; if that's an offense to someone that's their problem, not mine, and they should be able to respect that I don't enjoy alcohol and when i do it's sure as shit not fucking beer. Speaking domestically of course; if I was to be abroad in a different culture I wasn't familiar with, I'd do my best to accept hospitality as much as I could.

And: it was as rhetorical a question as you are willing to treat it is, and no I don't think I'm a 'real' man because I don't believe in such nonsense; you're a man if identify as a man, or were born a man biologically and have no desire to change that. Anything else is bullshit posturing or sexism, be it latent or willful. I'm as much a man as the dirtiest beer-drinkiest sports-watchiest ex-marines mechanic and welder, who is as much of a man as the most petite flaming gay fashion designer delicate flower, who is as much a man as an m-to-f transgender who honestly feels they should have been born with a dick instead of a vagina.

And punk is what I say it is because I fucking say so; that's punk. ;3
 
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TeenageAngst

Banned
Banned
It's 5am, I'm half sloshed and full of misguided disgruntlement.

Really though about half of everything I've laid out here is just me trying to compensate for the fact that I do some pretty girly things (watch ponies, sew costumes, etc). It's like when I was watching an episode on youtube and my room mate was freaking out because he couldn't understand why a guy would watch a show for little girls about colorful ponies. Obviously I coulda told him to take a hike cause I wasn't bothering him in any way and he was being an ass, but instead I started talking about cars with him. It proved I still had "manly" interests and he wasn't stuck with a fruit cup for a room mate. Once his mind was at ease it opened the dialog as to why I actually enjoy watching MLP and he hasn't bothered me about it since. And also, it's like when I was drinking beer and watching football with my friend and his dad. I didn't like the football, and Rolling Rock isn't a great oat soda, but I enjoyed the time the beer and the football gave us together. Had I refused one or the other I would have been missing out.

Most of what I spouted off were just things I keep on hand for just such occasions. As I said, most effeminate features are viewed as weakness and strangeness in men. If you're willing to go that extra mile to prove you're not, no one can talk s*** about you. In a perfect world this wouldn't be necessary but hey, I'm a hypocrite to the point of being a realist.

As for women, I really have no idea, but I'd assume the same principles would apply. If a woman was working on an electrical outlet or something and her room mate was a little weirded out, bringing up the gymnastics competitions during the Olympics or something would probably resolve any tension and maybe get the other person involved.

Yeah well in all cases I'd rather run than fight. I don't give a fuck if it gets me called a coward or any bullshit like that. If I'm fighting back, it's because it's a last resort, and if it's a last resort, fuck you I'm not being fair. I've dealt with drunk, pointlessly aggressive assholes plenty before, and have managed to avoid getting into fights. The very few 'fights' I've been in were when I was much much younger(last time I was like 14, 15 I think), and got my ass soundly kicked for mouthing off when I should have just walked away because there was no reason to even respond. If I hadn't felt so cocky and wanted to snark off I wouldn't have gotten into any fights.
So I learned pretty fast that if a fight can be avoided, it should be, and if it can't it's probably in my best interest to end it as swiftly and permanently as possible. Also: I did take some limited martial arts when I was younger and one of the first things I was taught is that if you can't run away from a situation, you should end it as quickly and surely as you can, by any means necessary, and then run.
I also don't consider someone shoving me as a fight. If someone shoves me because they're drunk and pushy, I'll do my best to ignore and escape the situation as swiftly as possible. It's never come to that because I just avoid drunk people and the kind of areas they're likely to be as much as I can, and I keep to myself in public unless I have good reason not to.
Hell, I have busked many times on teh streets of Toronto at 3am, and the worst shit that happened was a drunk guy trying to hit my snare with his dick. I just pulled it away, smiled and said 'no man, not cool.' he offered to pay and I said 'nope, sorry, no cocks allowed on my snare.' It was laughed off and all was fine.

Besides, I live in Canada, people don't carry guns here. Knives maybe, but I'm fairly confident in my ability to dodge and disarm if I absolutely have to; that's if running is absolutely not an option. I have studied unarmed defense against armed attackers, because I am overly paranoid about being jumped; I even worry about it now in a tiny town with virtually no crime rate that I know of. So no, I'm not completely inexperienced, I just have no mercy for anyone who decides it's a good idea to attack me. And part of the reason is because in such a situation I know I am just going to go for the most efficient incapacitation I feel I can get away with, no matter how cheap it is, since if it comes to blows in my mind I've already failed at doing what I consider the honorable thing and avoiding or diffusing the situation prior to violence. And I know I'm probably going to get very angry very fast, at myself as much as my attacker, and that makes me liable to kick their fucking face in while they're down both out of anger and to make sure they fucking stay down.

I hope you never get in a real fight then, cause lemme tell you, a shot to the nuts *never* works on a guy who's ready to fight. All it does is get your face in the pavement. I too took martial arts and that's one reason I never start fights, I've caught my temper more times than I can count. I also grew up outside of Philadelphia and Richmond respectively so yeah, I probably had different things to worry about than in East Jesus, Canada.

second paragraph: I'd have politely declined the beer, said thank you for the offer, and still joined them if it was a necessity in the situation. I'd probably have been fairly quiet the whole time since I'm usually not very talkative around people I don't know; I usually only respond to questions, chip in as briefly as I can if I know something relevant to the conversation, and don't usually try and push the conversation in directions I might enjoy if they're not headed that way naturally, since I'm aware my interests are, to most people, probably very strange, boring, or something they have no clue about that would be way too awkward to bring them up to speed on in the course of a normal conversation.
Most people don't care or have the requisite knowledge to discuss the nuances of high distortion on various types of kick drums and their usage in various kinds of music, or the details of time-travel mechanics in Homestuck and the implications thereof on the plot, and I have no interests in trying to make them care or try to give an in-depth explanation - I've gone that conversational path before and it has never ended in anything but me feeling horribly awkward and the other people in the conversation commandeering it back into shit they actually care about or understand.
So yeah, out of respect I just keep quiet and only interject when I have to or have something I feel isn't horribly awkward to express.
Also: no amount of respect for anyone is going to make me drink a beverage I think smells and tastes like vomit; if that's an offense to someone that's their problem, not mine, and they should be able to respect that I don't enjoy alcohol and when i do it's sure as shit not fucking beer. Speaking domestically of course; if I was to be abroad in a different culture I wasn't familiar with, I'd do my best to accept hospitality as much as I could.

So you'd be an antisocial wallflower. Chances are good you don't have a lot of people's dads offering you beers anyway. That being said, it's pretty offensive from the point of view that you wouldn't be able to make a personal sacrifice to partake in something the person obviously is trying to treat you to, especially something as trivial as not liking the taste of beer or what's on the tv. It's not about the beer, it's not about the football, it's about the experience, and it's not complete without those two factors. In a sense, it is a different culture. You probably aren't around a lot of pureblooded Italians or blue collar folks.

And: it was as rhetorical a question as you are willing to treat it is, and no I don't think I'm a 'real' man because I don't believe in such nonsense; you're a man if identify as a man, or were born a man biologically and have no desire to change that. Anything else is bullshit posturing or sexism, be it latent or willful. I'm as much a man as the dirtiest beer-drinkiest sports-watchiest ex-marines mechanic and welder, who is as much of a man as the most petite flaming gay fashion designer delicate flower, who is as much a man as an m-to-f transgender who honestly feels they should have been born with a dick instead of a vagina.

I don't buy that last bit.

And punk is what I say it is because I fucking say so; that's punk. ;3

I bet you listen to Anti-Flag, don't you?
 
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Conker

Destroyer of Nazi Teddy Bears
I'm a self-proclaimed asshole.
I don't get this idea that if you embrace the fact that you're an asshole, then it's totally cool to be an asshole. It isn't. People generally don't like being around assholes because, fuckin shocker, they are assholes.

Oly said:
And: it was as rhetorical a question as you are willing to treat it is, and no I don't think I'm a 'real' man because I don't believe in such nonsense; you're a man if identify as a man, or were born a man biologically and have no desire to change that. Anything else is bullshit posturing or sexism, be it latent or willful. I'm as much a man as the dirtiest beer-drinkiest sports-watchiest ex-marines mechanic and welder, who is as much of a man as the most petite flaming gay fashion designer delicate flower, who is as much a man as an m-to-f transgender who honestly feels they should have been born with a dick instead of a vagina.
Yeah. This.

The social pressures that define men and women aren't as arbitrary as something like language, but they are still fairly arbitrary. Yes, guys are generally bigger than women and therefore do more physical kinds of labor, but in the day where technology has invaded every part of our lives, that no longer needs to be the case.

Something as common as drinking beer or watching sports really shouldn't be attributed to manly when women are just as apt to do both of those things. Sports are gender neutral. Drinking is gender neutral. I can see why sports might be chalked up to manliness as the most watched sports are played by men, but that doesn't mean they are exclusive to men. If they were, they'd be making a lot less money. I've no idea why drinking and partying are "manly" though. Getting smashed is something anyone can enjoy if they've the mind to. Likewise, not drinking or partying shouldn't be considered feminine because some people simply don't like to drink (my brother for example) or party. Abstaining is also gender neutral.

TeenageAngst said:
Really though about half of everything I've laid out here is just me trying to compensate for the fact that I do some pretty girly things (watch ponies, sew costumes, etc). It's like when I was watching an episode on youtube and my room mate was freaking out because he couldn't understand why a guy would watch a show for little girls about colorful ponies. Obviously I coulda told him to take a hike cause I wasn't bothering him in any way and he was being an ass, but instead I started talking about cars with him. It proved I still had "manly" interests and he wasn't stuck with a fruit cup for a room mate. Once his mind was at ease it opened the dialog as to why I actually enjoy watching MLP and he hasn't bothered me about it since.
You know, that conversation would have been a lot shorter if you had skipped the middle man and simply explained why you liked the show. Somehow, I bet the outcome (he hasn't bothered you about it since) would have been the same.
 

Aleu

Deuces
To me, guys that feel the need to be aggressive and fight seem less worthy of being "men" than men that don't. It's like they feel the need to compensate for something like those guys with the big and seriously fucking LOUD trucks.
 

Ilayas

Member
As to the OP's question. Yes and no. I've worked jobs were my co-workers/bosses have treated be better because I am female and I've worked jobs were I have been treated worst because I am female. The same holds true for online/offline interactions with random people/friends. It really depends on who I am with and what the situation is. Over all though I'd have to say the good and the bad probably balance out in the end.
 
In certain aspects, yes. I don't think a female will ever have to worry about being arrested for causing domestic violence, regardless of the severity.

In other aspects, no. Women generally speaking aren't as well paid. Although this is primarily due to the fact that women have only recently started to enter the professional workforce en masse and all those recently employed experienced a pay decrease, the gap does exist.

Many women have been arrested and even charged for violent domestic disputes.
 

Zuckerdachs

A Real Pal
Many women have been arrested and even charged for violent domestic disputes.


Yup. According to the literature my job distributes, official charges against women make up about 15% of DV cases. Actual numbers of complaints make up about 40%*, but men are less likely to pursue legal action to the end, and the amount of resources available to men (shelters, counselors, court advocates, legal aid etc) are severely lacking.

*As a side note, violence doesn't have to be physical, and a lot of people don't realize that.
 
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