• Fur Affinity Forums are governed by Fur Affinity's Rules and Policies. Links and additional information can be accessed in the Site Information Forum.

Autism in The Fandom

Ziv

PokéManiac
Orrrrr it could have more to do with things like how kids like to pretend being animals... ooor a loveable cartoon character... orrrr just enjoying the fantasy aspect in general. :T

You seem to be implying that autistic adults are children or at the very least substantially child-like. The big giveaway here is "kids".
As an autistic adult, I find this troubling, and ask you to reflect on your use of language more.
 

Ziv

PokéManiac
List keeps getting longer on the reasons to get a cure lol.

I don't personally want a cure, but I'm not per se anti-cure either. I definitely want to see more effective interventions to help people develop higher level language and such. I don't think the autism phenotype should be eliminated from the gene pool. I actually think that would have a really negative impact on the world as we know it.

And I, personally, am proud to be autistic. Sure, I've had a ton of shit to deal with and still deal with, I'm not denying that. But I've had to deal with a ton of shit for being transgender too and I'm proud of that. We're allowed to be proud... if we want to.
 

Firuthi Dragovic

Gamer Dragon, former speedrunner
You seem to be implying that autistic adults are children or at the very least substantially child-like. The big giveaway here is "kids".
To be fair, somewhere around 80-90% of the stuff I've seen related to autism on the Internet is very specifically centered around autistic children, and most of the rest revolves around a lot of things that could probably be better described using various co-occurring conditions (formally the word is "comorbidities", but that word actually disgusts me as "morbid" is very much disease-oriented language. There's autistic detail obsession for you I guess). I'm pretty sure I've RUN OUT of material to research regarding autistic adults that don't have much else going on.

Just as an example, I actually tried to search "child senses vs autistic senses" to see if I could get a difference, and everything comes up as "children WITH autism" rather than comparisons. Believe me, I want to refine my search to actually get at differences, but I have no idea where to even begin with that.

I don't personally want a cure, but I'm not per se anti-cure either. I definitely want to see more effective interventions to help people develop higher level language and such.
Would you believe me if I told you your use of the words "interventions" and "language" actually make me uneasy? "Interventions" sounds commanding and "language" implies that speaking/writing/etc. are the only communication methods society can be made to allow.

I don't think the autism phenotype should be eliminated from the gene pool. I actually think that would have a really negative impact on the world as we know it.
I'm going to have the audacity to say that our problems conforming to societal demands are pretty much the exact reason why we're needed so badly. I don't feel comfortable going into TOO many details, but I imagine us being in one of the best positions to, say..... preserve history?

And I, personally, am proud to be autistic.
Say..... would you be able to spell out the difference between "proud" and "accepting"? Over the last few years I've just gone to "accepting" my place on the spectrum because people keep saying "proud" or any form of pride is a bad thing.
 

Parabellum3

I'm not a furry if I have feathers.
And I, personally, am proud to be autistic. Sure, I've had a ton of shit to deal with and still deal with, I'm not denying that. But I've had to deal with a ton of shit for being transgender too and I'm proud of that. We're allowed to be proud... if we want to.
What's there to be proud of when you have something that's labeled as a disorder?
 

Troj

Your Friendly Neighborhood Dino Therapist
What's there to be proud of when you have something that's labeled as a disorder?
Because autism in particular comes with a notable collection of strengths, I'd say, and because you might as well embrace it or come to terms with it in some form, because it's an inescapable part of you.

At the same time, it's valid and appropriate to also acknowledge the struggles, deficits, and pains that come with being autistic, too, and to grieve the losses and disappointments one has endured as a result.
 

Yakamaru

Evil Woffer-chan
What's there to be proud of when you have something that's labeled as a disorder?
Disorder does not automatically translate into something that is only negative or mostly negative. I have absolutely no issues admitting to having Asperger's to people if or possibly when they ask me about my.. Social quirks that I am very often not even aware of before they actually mention it.

It's up to you to find your strengths and weaknesses, refine your strengths and lessen your weaknesses. This is primarily done through self-reflection, introspection. Looking inwards and asking yourself a billion different hard questions. Another great way of achieving this in combination with your self-reflection is through observing others.
 

TyraWadman

The Silent Observer
You seem to be implying that autistic adults are children or at the very least substantially child-like. The big giveaway here is "kids".
As an autistic adult, I find this troubling, and ask you to reflect on your use of language more.

I'm implying that a lot of non-autistic people enjoy doing the same things too. I know I liked larping, and totally would today with the right crowd.

My concern is that they seem to have an incredibly toxic paradigm, in general, at the moment and I am trying to ground things a little by pitching other perspectives.
 

Parabellum3

I'm not a furry if I have feathers.
Because autism in particular comes with a notable collection of strengths, I'd say, and because you might as well embrace it or come to terms with it in some form, because it's an inescapable part of you.

At the same time, it's valid and appropriate to also acknowledge the struggles, deficits, and pains that come with being autistic, too, and to grieve the losses and disappointments one has endured as a result.
The ratio of deficiencies is usually higher than that of strengths in most cases.
 

Ziv

PokéManiac
To be fair, somewhere around 80-90% of the stuff I've seen related to autism on the Internet is very specifically centered around autistic children, and most of the rest revolves around a lot of things that could probably be better described using various co-occurring conditions (formally the word is "comorbidities", but that word actually disgusts me as "morbid" is very much disease-oriented language. There's autistic detail obsession for you I guess). I'm pretty sure I've RUN OUT of material to research regarding autistic adults that don't have much else going on.

Just as an example, I actually tried to search "child senses vs autistic senses" to see if I could get a difference, and everything comes up as "children WITH autism" rather than comparisons. Believe me, I want to refine my search to actually get at differences, but I have no idea where to even begin with that.


Would you believe me if I told you your use of the words "interventions" and "language" actually make me uneasy? "Interventions" sounds commanding and "language" implies that speaking/writing/etc. are the only communication methods society can be made to allow.


I'm going to have the audacity to say that our problems conforming to societal demands are pretty much the exact reason why we're needed so badly. I don't feel comfortable going into TOO many details, but I imagine us being in one of the best positions to, say..... preserve history?


Say..... would you be able to spell out the difference between "proud" and "accepting"? Over the last few years I've just gone to "accepting" my place on the spectrum because people keep saying "proud" or any form of pride is a bad thing.

As I've said, I am an actual autism researcher. I read research articles all day long. Your perception about there being a focus on children is correct but there is actually a booming literature on autistic adults. There are assuredly thousands of papers on the subject. You have not "run out". Try Google Scholar.

"Interventions" and "language" and similar terms are standard in the research literature. I apologize for making you uneasy, but these are simply the words that are used. If you want to talk about autism on a public forum, you should probably get used to hearing them.

I think acceptance is the first step to pride.

EDIT:
Screenshot 2021-01-10 122308.png


EDIT 2:
Something close to what you were looking for, I think?
Screenshot 2021-01-10 122605.png


What's there to be proud of when you have something that's labeled as a disorder?

I'm very proud of my bipolar disorder as well, even though I've been hospitalized inpatient 18 times, cumulatively taking over a year of my life -- and also, it almost killed me in 2018 (I was comatose and intubated and the doctors told my parents I was going to die).

It's hard to have a disability. It's hard to be LGBT. It's hard to be Black, or any other minority race.
That's exactly WHY we should be able to have pride.

If you still feel unconvinced of this, I recommend you talk to someone with a disability like cerebral palsy (which I also have a very mild form of). Just for perspective.
 
Last edited:

Parabellum3

I'm not a furry if I have feathers.
As I've said, I am an actual autism researcher. I read research articles all day long. Your perception about there being a focus on children is correct but there is actually a booming literature on autistic adults. There are assuredly thousands of papers on the subject. You have not "run out". Try Google Scholar.

"Interventions" and "language" and similar terms are standard in the research literature. I apologize for making you uneasy, but these are simply the words that are used. If you want to talk about autism on a public forum, you should probably get used to hearing them.

I think acceptance is the first step to pride.

EDIT:
View attachment 98576

EDIT 2:
Something close to what you were looking for, I think?
View attachment 98577



I'm very proud of my bipolar disorder as well, even though I've been hospitalized inpatient 18 times, cumulatively taking over a year of my life -- and also, it almost killed me in 2018 (I was comatose and intubated and the doctors told my parents I was going to die).

It's hard to have a disability. It's hard to be LGBT. It's hard to be Black, or any other minority race.
That's exactly WHY we should be able to have pride.

If you still feel unconvinced of this, I recommend you talk to someone with a disability like cerebral palsy (which I also have a very mild form of). Just for perspective.
I do not think you can compare being LGBT, minority races, or the physically disabled to psychiatric illness. Mainly because those who are in the three minority groups are at least slowly being integrated into society since they are sound in mind and have potential to benefit humanity as a whole.

Society tends to shy away from those with mental disabilities due to the danger that they may pose either to themselves or others. Obviously that doesn’t apply to everyone with disabilities since there are those that can be bright. But it’s become a stereotype thanks to tragic events and the portrayal of us by the media.
 

Ziv

PokéManiac
I do not think you can compare being LGBT, minority races, or the physically disabled to psychiatric illness. Mainly because those who are in the three minority groups are at least slowly being integrated into society since they are sound in mind and have potential to benefit humanity as a whole.

Society tends to shy away from those with mental disabilities due to the danger that they may pose either to themselves or others. Obviously that doesn’t apply to everyone with disabilities since there are those that can be bright. But it’s become a stereotype thanks to tragic events and the portrayal of us by the media.

I'm 3 of those 4 things. I find them perfectly comparable. I absolutely believe me, and my bipolar disorder, and my autism (which both give me talents other people don't have) have the "potential to benefit humanity as a whole". Whether or not you are "sound in mind" does not determine a) your capacities/abilities/potential or b) your worth and value as a human being.

To me, what you just said is incredibly offensive and insulting. I spend half my time doped up on meds or locked up in an inpatient unit and half my time writing my dissertation at one of the top universities in the US. It's not that "there are those that can be bright" -- that statement is clearly predicated on the majority of psychiatric patients(/autistic people) being not bright, or at least that having severe mental illness symptoms somehow strips away your intellect, not to mention your worth and "benefit [to] humanity".

There's a word for that perspective: Ableism. I recommend you Google it.
By the way, highly intelligent people are more likely to have bipolar disorder (link to reference). And, bipolar disorder is associated with the same genes as high intelligence (link to reference).

EDIT: Also, I recognize this is coming from a place of low self-esteem. I just think you really need to evaluate what you're saying about other people.
 

Parabellum3

I'm not a furry if I have feathers.
I'm 3 of those 4 things. I find them perfectly comparable. I absolutely believe me, and my bipolar disorder, and my autism (which both give me talents other people don't have) have the "potential to benefit humanity as a whole". Whether or not you are "sound in mind" does not determine a) your capacities/abilities/potential or b) your worth and value as a human being.

To me, what you just said is incredibly offensive and insulting. I spend half my time doped up on meds or locked up in an inpatient unit and half my time writing my dissertation at one of the top universities in the US. It's not that "there are those that can be bright" -- that statement is clearly predicated on the majority of psychiatric patients(/autistic people) being not bright, or at least that having severe mental illness symptoms somehow strips away your intellect, not to mention your worth and "benefit [to] humanity".

There's a word for that perspective: Ableism. I recommend you Google it.
By the way, highly intelligent people are more likely to have bipolar disorder (link to reference). And, bipolar disorder is associated with the same genes as high intelligence (link to reference).

EDIT: Also, I recognize this is coming from a place of low self-esteem. I just think you really need to evaluate what you're saying about other people.
I know what the word means and I've been called that many times. But that is not going to stop me from expressing my view on the world. I know what it's like to be on meds and in the nut house, so I am "offending" myself as much as everyone else (according to you though but not everyone will agree on that.) Also I never implied that all people with disabilities are dumb as rocks. Einstein is a good example, he had Asperger's. There are a lot of people who are bright and have disabilities, but it unfortunately doesn't apply to everyone who has it. In the case of the Spectrum, everyone is different. Some have more strengths or weaknesses, for me it's the latter.
 

Ziv

PokéManiac
I know what the word means and I've been called that many times. But that is not going to stop me from expressing my view on the world. I know what it's like to be on meds and in the nut house, so I am "offending" myself as much as everyone else (according to you though but not everyone will agree on that.) Also I never implied that all people with disabilities are dumb as rocks. Einstein is a good example, he had Asperger's. There are a lot of people who are bright and have disabilities, but it unfortunately doesn't apply to everyone who has it. In the case of the Spectrum, everyone is different. Some have more strengths or weaknesses, for me it's the latter.

I will copy and paste here, with emphasis: I just think you really need to evaluate what you're saying about other people.
If you feel you have more weaknesses than strengths, I have no evidence or reason to invalidate your belief. I definitely don't appreciate the way you've spoken about me as a person.
 

Parabellum3

I'm not a furry if I have feathers.
I will copy and paste here, with emphasis: I just think you really need to evaluate what you're saying about other people.
If you feel you have more weaknesses than strengths, I have no evidence or reason to invalidate your belief. I definitely don't appreciate the way you've spoken about me as a person.
I actually don't even know what I said that made you offended. Can you please clarify that?
 

Ziv

PokéManiac
I actually don't even know what I said that made you offended. Can you please clarify that?

I will give you a breakdown of this one post. I can find numerous other instances, but I don't personally have the time to spend on that.

I do not think you can compare being LGBT, minority races, or the physically disabled to psychiatric illness.

So what are you saying here? We aren't oppressed? We don't face discrimination? We're not "actually" disabled (like those "physically disabled" people)? You do realize that psychiatric illness can directly cause "physical disabilities" right?

Mainly because those who are in the three minority groups are at least slowly being integrated into society since they are sound in mind

Here, "sound of mind" is clearly juxtaposed against "potential to be integrated into society". It is commonly recognized that "sound in mind" is a legalistic/euphemistic phrase referring, quite directly, to people with serious mental illnesses -- most often, bipolar disorder and schizophrenia, especially since the context of the phrase usually implies some element of psychosis. You are saying that me, personally, because I have bipolar disorder, can never be "integrated into society". Which I can already prove to be false, but moving on.

and have potential to benefit humanity as a whole.

You're literally saying I, personally, have no potential to benefit humanity. Now, I recognize this can also be interpreted as "bipolar disorder has no potential to benefit humanity" -- a statement I addressed with peer-reviewed evidence earlier in this thread, and I will also offer the book "Touched with Fire" by Kay Redfield Jamison if you do not believe bipolar disorder benefits humanity. (And if educating yourself is too much work, maybe reconsider having such strong opinions.)

In either case, the first interpretation is meaningful because your "intention" in what you're saying doesn't matter nearly as much as how people logically understand it when they read it. When you miscommunicate, it's on you to clarify and apologize. (In turn, this should be respected.)

Society tends to shy away from those with mental disabilities due to the danger that they may pose either to themselves or others.

"Danger posed to self and others" is another legalistic phrase that is quite literally and specifically written into the laws about inpatient psychiatric hospitalization. Therefore, I believe we can logically substitute this as saying "People are afraid of people with mental illnesses [particularly bipolar and schizophrenia] because they might have been hospitalized or might be hospitalized in the future".

If that actually sounds like something we should just condone and accept to you, I think your problems are deeper than I could ever help you with, so I'll leave it at that.

Obviously that doesn’t apply to everyone with disabilities since there are those that can be bright.

I've already talked about this, but I'll go over the whole sentence. We start by negating the previous statement -- I'm going to infer that the negation is intended to be "There are some people with mental illnesses [particularly bipolar disorder and schizophrenia] who have not been hospitalized". This is true. However, the reason given for this statement ("since" = giving a reason) is that "there are those that can be bright". In other words, this statement becomes "There are some people with mental illnesses who have not been hospitalized and the reason for that is some people with mental illnesses are intelligent."

Obviously, there are serious problems with equating intelligence and number of hospitalizations, especially considering peer-reviewed evidence (linked early in this thread) that people with very high intelligence are more likely than people with average intelligence to be hospitalized for bipolar disorder. Beyond the statistics, this statement implies that if you are ever hospitalized, your intelligence is lower than people who have not been hospitalized. This is incredibly hurtful to the 1% of the population who suffers from bipolar disorder. I actually can't find a source for this right now but I would say pretty confidently at least half of all of those people with bipolar disorder have been hospitalized.

But it’s become a stereotype thanks to tragic events and the portrayal of us by the media.

I'm glad you acknowledge that the media does not portray us kindly, but not only does this not absolve any of your previous statements, it's kind of hard for me to see how it's logically related at all. It's almost like you just added this to the end to "soften the blow".
 

Parabellum3

I'm not a furry if I have feathers.
So what are you saying here? We aren't oppressed? We don't face discrimination? We're not "actually" disabled (like those "physically disabled" people)? You do realize that psychiatric illness can directly cause "physical disabilities" right?
What I was implying is that people with psychiatric disabilities are oppressed even more than those who are physically disabled, LGBT, or racial minorities.

Here, "sound of mind" is clearly juxtaposed against "potential to be integrated into society". It is commonly recognized that "sound in mind" is a legalistic/euphemistic phrase referring, quite directly, to people with serious mental illnesses -- most often, bipolar disorder and schizophrenia, especially since the context of the phrase usually implies some element of psychosis. You are saying that me, personally, because I have bipolar disorder, can never be "integrated into society". Which I can already prove to be false, but moving on.
I wasn't even talking about you dude. Did I look like I was specifically referring to bipolar disorders? I'm talking about mental illness as a whole. Also are you saying that psychosis is a good thing? Because according to the medical community, it's not really that good...and I agree with them.

"Danger posed to self and others" is another legalistic phrase that is quite literally and specifically written into the laws about inpatient psychiatric hospitalization. Therefore, I believe we can logically substitute this as saying "People are afraid of people with mental illnesses [particularly bipolar and schizophrenia] because they might have been hospitalized or might be hospitalized in the future".

If that actually sounds like something we should just condone and accept to you, I think your problems are deeper than I could ever help you with, so I'll leave it at that.
I had the government barge into my problems because I was trying to buy my first gun. And they told me the same exact thing as I am telling you. So no, we can't substitute your phrase with this. Because if this what the government and the medical community think, then it's what society thinks about us as well.

I've already talked about this, but I'll go over the whole sentence. We start by negating the previous statement -- I'm going to infer that the negation is intended to be "There are some people with mental illnesses [particularly bipolar disorder and schizophrenia] who have not been hospitalized". This is true. However, the reason given for this statement ("since" = giving a reason) is that "there are those that can be bright". In other words, this statement becomes "There are some people with mental illnesses who have not been hospitalized and the reason for that is some people with mental illnesses are intelligent."
I wasn't specifically talking about intelligence. What I meant was about the psychotic state of an individual as a whole. This includes but not limited to; perception of reality, socialization skills, emotional management, intelligence, and the ability to support themselves. Perhaps I may have used the wrong word I admit.
 

Ziv

PokéManiac
What I was implying is that people with psychiatric disabilities are oppressed even more than those who are physically disabled, LGBT, or racial minorities.


I wasn't even talking about you dude. Did I look like I was specifically referring to bipolar disorders? I'm talking about mental illness as a whole. Also are you saying that psychosis is a good thing? Because according to the medical community, it's not really that good...and I agree with them.


I had the government barge into my problems because I was trying to buy my first gun. And they told me the same exact thing as I am telling you. So no, we can't substitute your phrase with this. Because if this what the government and the medical community think, then it's what society thinks about us as well.


I wasn't specifically talking about intelligence. What I meant was about the psychotic state of an individual as a whole. This includes but not limited to; perception of reality, socialization skills, emotional management, intelligence, and the ability to support themselves. Perhaps I may have used the wrong word I admit.

I don't think this merits a reply. I'll probably accept an apology if you ever feel like expanding your mentalizing abilities.
 

Parabellum3

I'm not a furry if I have feathers.
I don't think this merits a reply. I'll probably accept an apology if you ever feel like expanding your mentalizing abilities.
I still don't quite get what I did to offend you since none of my arguments were directed to you, but if I have then I do apologize. Anyways, let's shake on it with Mr. Putin on my behalf.





Just to clarify, I wasn't actually cyberbullying but I simply like this meme.
 

Firuthi Dragovic

Gamer Dragon, former speedrunner
"Danger posed to self and others" is another legalistic phrase that is quite literally and specifically written into the laws about inpatient psychiatric hospitalization. Therefore, I believe we can logically substitute this as saying "People are afraid of people with mental illnesses [particularly bipolar and schizophrenia] because they might have been hospitalized or might be hospitalized in the future".
.....am... am I suddenly going to have to be really worried about the ID bracelet idea that I'd mentioned earlier in the thread? I mean, I was under the assumption that warning people that I have something where they might need to get clear (I have heard some REAL horror stories of how meltdowns can go, as some of my other recent posts can attest, and I STILL haven't got a full idea how bad mine can get as I've learned a little about withdrawing if I get overloaded) might very well be something important - am I going to have to worry about shunning?


And actually, you know what? Time to take a chance.
So what are you saying here? We aren't oppressed? We don't face discrimination?
Speaking of discrimination, one of the ones where I can REALLY get into trouble in modern society unless I learn to get this right now: is it really weird of me that I literally have trouble making heads or tails of derogatory terms (or slang in general) unless I make a complete workaround with a dual-meaning - or more horrifyingly, wordplay? Or is this actually something that's relatively common to autistic people? Or, heck, is that actually a neurotypical thing that I'm overestimating?

I kind of figure it might be important to know how much I need to worry about preparing ahead of time and KEEPING THAT @$#% SILENT... especially given one of the other major components of this fandom.

(I kid you not, there's one that actually kept me up at night and obsessed for DAYS. I will not be repeating it here but I can DM someone on it if it's really necessary.)
 
Last edited:

Parabellum3

I'm not a furry if I have feathers.
.....am... am I suddenly going to have to be really worried about the ID bracelet idea that I'd mentioned earlier in the thread? I mean, I was under the assumption that warning people that I have something where they might need to get clear (I have heard some REAL horror stories of how meltdowns can go, as some of my other recent posts can attest, and I STILL haven't got a full idea how bad mine can get as I've learned a little about withdrawing if I get overloaded) might very well be something important - am I going to have to worry about shunning?
ID bracelets are a bad idea, in fact depending your condition you wouldn’t even need one for people to recognize that something is wrong with you.
 

TyraWadman

The Silent Observer
.....am... am I suddenly going to have to be really worried about the ID bracelet idea that I'd mentioned earlier in the thread? I mean, I was under the assumption that warning people that I have something where they might need to get clear (I have heard some REAL horror stories of how meltdowns can go, as some of my other recent posts can attest, and I STILL haven't got a full idea how bad mine can get as I've learned a little about withdrawing if I get overloaded) might very well be something important - am I going to have to worry about shunning?
You're talking about those bands like how they have for people who are diabetic/allergies right?

If so, I think bracelets should be used if you think it's safer for you. In a time of crisis it could alert a paramedic that your situation might need to be handled a little bit differently, or to even be prepared for a struggle, and ultimately improve your chances of survival. Not saying you'd be the type to throw fists, but some are. I'd rather go into something having that extra tidbit than be without.
 

Parabellum3

I'm not a furry if I have feathers.
You're talking about those bands like how they have for people who are diabetic/allergies right?

If so, I think bracelets should be used if you think it's safer for you. In a time of crisis it could alert a paramedic that your situation might need to be handled a little bit differently, or to even be prepared for a struggle, and ultimately improve your chances of survival. Not saying you'd be the type to throw fists, but some are. I'd rather go into something having that extra tidbit than be without.
I also heard that they’re used like when a cop pulls you over they’ll get a better idea on how to interact with you.
 

Parabellum3

I'm not a furry if I have feathers.
Just like the paramedic, yes! There are plenty of folks that wear these bands, and the flashy bling isn't hard to recognize unless it falls off!
I think it makes more sense to withhold that info in your phone or something so that not everybody has to know about your problems.
 

TyraWadman

The Silent Observer
I think it makes more sense to withhold that info in your phone or something so that not everybody has to know about your problems.

If you feel that it is a problem, then that's fine.
Some people aren't ashamed to acknowledge their differences though and that's why purchasing one is a choice to begin with.
 
Top