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Autism in The Fandom

Lucyfur

United forever in friendship and labour
Banned
We are a minority. We are outside of the norm due to having Autism. Society is under no obligation to cater to nor accommodate to our needs, because said needs may require people to go out of their way to accommodate us. Believing society or for that matter specific people are under any obligation to cater to or accommodate you is self-entitlement/narcissism. Not to mention people come off as wanting to be treated differently/in a special manner doesn't help you nor others either for that matter. You adapt to society, not the other way around. The more adapted you are the better. Refusal on your part to adapt even partially is not going to get you anywhere, as people have no obligations whatsoever over you just because you exist. In that case you end up creating your own problems out of a sheer refusal to adapt even partially to how society operates.

I am against throwing "-ists" and "-isms" around because it does nothing to help the conversation move along, the same way I am against using characteristics/intrinsic characteristics like for instance Autism in this case to be used as a crutch to avoid everything from criticism to self-reflection and taking control over the circumstances of one's own existence.
why not though? I ask this honestly from the perspective of how we do such things, and I agree with doing these things very much so myself, in building regulations and such to make them accessible for those who for instance require aids like wheelchairs.
Why not accommodate the needs of others especially since it is due to no fault of their own.
 

Yakamaru

Level 32 Knight
why not though? I ask this honestly from the perspective of how we do such things, and I agree with doing these things very much so myself, in building regulations and such to make them accessible for those who for instance require aids like wheelchairs.
Why not accommodate the needs of others especially since it is due to no fault of their own.
Notice how I quoted the part that was specific for Autism. Those who are physically handicapped is not part of the discussion and is not something of which I was addressing.
 

Lucyfur

United forever in friendship and labour
Banned
Notice how I quoted the part that was specific for Autism. Those who are physically handicapped is not part of the discussion and is not something of which I was addressing.
there are parallels, and the point is we are able to accommodate so why would we why stop at the physical barrier?
Also as a side not autism can cause physical affects too.
 

ConorHyena

nazi hunter
there are parallels, and the point is we are able to accommodate so why wouldn't we why stop at the physical barrier?
Also as a side not autism can cause physical affects too.
I was under the impression both physical and mental impairments are similar in their impact on a person's life, and therefor equal in that aspect.
 

Lucyfur

United forever in friendship and labour
Banned
I was under the impression both physical and mental impairments are similar in their impact on a person's life, and therefor equal in that aspect.
woops typo there meant to say why would we stop at the physical barrier.
 

Yakamaru

Level 32 Knight
there are parallels, and the point is we are able to accommodate so why wouldn't we why stop at the physical barrier?
Also as a side not autism can cause physical affects too.
Being physically disabled to the point of having to use a wheelchair is not comparable to that of having Autism. One is physical in nature, the other primarily a psychological characteristic. One makes you literally incapable of moving around most of the time, the other pretty much makes your brain function differently.

So no, there are not parallels. Similarities in some aspects, but not parallels. Being physically disabled to the point of having to move around in a wheelchair is not the same as having Autism, as Autism doesn't prevent you from moving about nor be able to find a job and live a healthy as possible life. I am not interested in using umbrella terms/definitions nor be treated as if I am disabled, because I am not.
 

Liseran Thistle

They/Them
This attitude that autistic people just have to learn to cope and deal with having no accommodations for them because it makes allistic people more comfortable, or that they aren't "owed" anything to make *them* more comfortable because they're a minority and not "the norm" is directly rooted in ableism, and regardless of whether or not people want to finally realize that saying things like this harmful and a direct result of non-disabled people belittling and disregarding the needs of people different than them, it is a real thing that happens in people's lives and it is normalized.

I'm very tired of this whole "i don't believe in -ism's" bull just because it doesn't change the fact that it exists and is continuously perpetuated in society. The fact that some of you have pointed to the way other people have treated you in response to your autism is direct proof that these "ism's" you callously decided to pretend don't exist *do exist*. You can't dismiss the way people mistreat others with disabilities just because you think it's "weird" to give the way they mistreat you a "name" (which is even more ridiculous than saying it's not real when you see others talking about how people have mistreated them because of their condition)

Furthermore, asking allistic people to make slight changes in their lives to help make other people more comfortable is in no way absolving autistic people of responsibility for their condition completely. It is not "coddling" an autistic person when you lower the volume of your music that's too loud, or you turn the lights in a room down low because they're too bright.

People don't want to admit that something like ableism exists because they partake in it, and it affects them to such a degree that they feel they have to "cure" themselves of their disability just to be able to fit in with people who see them as an inconvenience.

I ask the ones here talking about a cure this: If society doesn't want to make slight changes and accommodations for autistic people, because they don't believe people with that condition are owed or even need such changes, what makes you think they care enough to "cure" you?

If you can't even get someone to make slight changes in the way they do things to make you more comfortable, you certainly can't expect them to want to "cure" you either.
We are a minority. We are outside of the norm due to having Autism. Society is under no obligation to cater to nor accommodate to our needs, because said needs may require people to go out of their way to accommodate us. Believing society or for that matter specific people are under any obligation to cater to or accommodate you is self-entitlement/narcissism. Not to mention people come off as wanting to be treated differently/in a special manner doesn't help you nor others either for that matter. You adapt to society, not the other way around. The more adapted you are the better. Refusal on your part to adapt even partially is not going to get you anywhere, as people have no obligations whatsoever over you just because you exist. In that case you end up creating your own problems out of a sheer refusal to adapt even partially to how society operates.

I am against throwing "-ists" and "-isms" around because it does nothing to help the conversation move along, the same way I am against using characteristics/intrinsic characteristics like for instance Autism in this case to be used as a crutch to avoid everything from criticism to self-reflection and taking control over the circumstances of one's own existence.
 

Lucyfur

United forever in friendship and labour
Banned
Being physically disabled to the point of having to use a wheelchair is not comparable to that of having Autism. One is physical in nature, the other primarily a psychological characteristic. One makes you literally incapable of moving around most of the time, the other pretty much makes your brain function differently.

So no, there are not parallels. Similarities in some aspects, but not parallels. Being physically disabled to the point of having to move around in a wheelchair is not the same as having Autism, as Autism doesn't prevent you from moving about nor be able to find a job and live a healthy as possible life. I am not interested in using umbrella terms/definitions nor be treated as if I am disabled, because I am not.
cool some autistic people don't necessarily have issues finding jobs, others do though.
some do suffer certain physical challenges like those related to issues with sleep due to their autism which would be a physical impact too.
but yeah depending on how one may be impacted the results and their interactions in life with others may vary , so you may not want to use your own expericne as anecdotal evidence of if you can than they can too, because it doesnt always play out that way.

 

Parabellum3

I'm not a furry if I have feathers.
This attitude that autistic people just have to learn to cope and deal with having no accommodations for them because it makes allistic people more comfortable, or that they aren't "owed" anything to make *them* more comfortable because they're a minority and not "the norm" is directly rooted in ableism, and regardless of whether or not people want to finally realize that saying things like this harmful and a direct result of non-disabled people belittling and disregarding the needs of people different than them, it is a real thing that happens in people's lives and it is normalized.

I'm very tired of this whole "i don't believe in -ism's" bull just because it doesn't change the fact that it exists and is continuously perpetuated in society. The fact that some of you have pointed to the way other people have treated you in response to your autism is direct proof that these "ism's" you callously decided to pretend don't exist *do exist*. You can't dismiss the way people mistreat others with disabilities just because you think it's "weird" to give the way they mistreat you a "name" (which is even more ridiculous than saying it's not real when you see others talking about how people have mistreated them because of their condition)

Furthermore, asking allistic people to make slight changes in their lives to help make other people more comfortable is in no way absolving autistic people of responsibility for their condition completely. It is not "coddling" an autistic person when you lower the volume of your music that's too loud, or you turn the lights in a room down low because they're too bright.

People don't want to admit that something like ableism exists because they partake in it, and it affects them to such a degree that they feel they have to "cure" themselves of their disability just to be able to fit in with people who see them as an inconvenience.

I ask the ones here talking about a cure this: If society doesn't want to make slight changes and accommodations for autistic people, because they don't believe people with that condition are owed or even need such changes, what makes you think they care enough to "cure" you?

If you can't even get someone to make slight changes in the way they do things to make you more comfortable, you certainly can't expect them to want to "cure" you either.
Doesn't a cure count as an accommodation?
 

Yakamaru

Level 32 Knight
This attitude that autistic people just have to learn to cope and deal with having no accommodations for them because it makes allistic people more comfortable, or that they aren't "owed" anything to make *them* more comfortable because they're a minority and not "the norm" is directly rooted in ableism, and regardless of whether or not people want to finally realize that saying things like this harmful and a direct result of non-disabled people belittling and disregarding the needs of people different than them, it is a real thing that happens in people's lives and it is normalized.

I'm very tired of this whole "i don't believe in -ism's" bull just because it doesn't change the fact that it exists and is continuously perpetuated in society. The fact that some of you have pointed to the way other people have treated you in response to your autism is direct proof that these "ism's" you callously decided to pretend don't exist *do exist*. You can't dismiss the way people mistreat others with disabilities just because you think it's "weird" to give the way they mistreat you a "name" (which is even more ridiculous than saying it's not real when you see others talking about how people have mistreated them because of their condition)

Furthermore, asking allistic people to make slight changes in their lives to help make other people more comfortable is in no way absolving autistic people of responsibility for their condition completely. It is not "coddling" an autistic person when you lower the volume of your music that's too loud, or you turn the lights in a room down low because they're too bright.

People don't want to admit that something like ableism exists because they partake in it, and it affects them to such a degree that they feel they have to "cure" themselves of their disability just to be able to fit in with people who see them as an inconvenience.

I ask the ones here talking about a cure this: If society doesn't want to make slight changes and accommodations for autistic people, because they don't believe people with that condition are owed or even need such changes, what makes you think they care enough to "cure" you?

If you can't even get someone to make slight changes in the way they do things to make you more comfortable, you certainly can't expect them to want to "cure" you either.
I am not owed anything on the mere premise of existing. Believing otherwise is egotistical/narcissistic, and I refuse to think of myself as special because I am not.

The same way I am against a "cure", I am against special privileges/accommodations on the mere basis of having Autism. I do not find it to my liking of being treated differently on the mere basis of having Autism the same way I am against using said Autism as a crutch.

cool some autistic people don't necessarily have issues finding jobs, others do though.
some do suffer certain physical challenges like those related to issues with sleep due to their autism which would be a physical impact too.
but yeah depending on how one may be impacted the results and their interactions in life with others may vary , so you may not want to use your own expericne as anecdotal evidence of if you can than they can too, because it doesnt always play out that way.

A physical disability IS going to give you issues. Autism CAN give you issues, which is the difference. A lot of people with Autism are fully capable of functioning more or less in a normal fashion in society despite the limitations their Autism give them. They at the very least try to adapt.
 

Punji

Vaskebjørn
As someone with a physical disability, I don't think society should be expected to accommodate others. While obviously it's nice, expecting other people to make sacrifices or otherwise inconvenience themselves just isn't very reasonable.

Take for instance handicap parking. I love it, because it seriously cuts out a lot of pain for me in everyday life. It negatively impacts all the people who can't park there because they're almost always the closest spots and it lowers the overall parking available to everyone else. But in most instances, the loss is very minor compared to how much of a difference it can make for the disabled. In the past, I went from walking across a parking lot for five minutes to a C-train platform and vomiting from the pain when I got there to parking most of the way to the platform. This inherently means some people just don't get parking spots anymore, about maybe 40 less cars can park there without a permit. It means more people can actually make the physical walk to the trains every day though. On the trains there's special seating for the disabled, though most people ignore that and sit there anyway. Respecting the seats means less healthy people can sit down. Some days I just couldn't stand the whole time and needed to sit down on those seats, or just on the floor. And when I got to my station, I couldn't go up the stairs in one go. If the escalator was out, which happened a lot, I'd ride the elevator up to the top. Having the elevator there means the staircase was to be much narrower, so it was more crowded for everyone else.

These accommodations required small sacrifices from everyone else who didn't need them or couldn't legally use them, but the difference it made heavily favoured the people who need them. But on the same coin, I didn't ask for the parking spots or seats or the elevator. I've walked the blocks to the station same as everyone else and I've stood for the full 45 minute train ride, and I've walked up the stairs so people wouldn't stare at me. Does this make some sense to anyone?

We could all survive without them, or simply find other ways to adapt. I appreciate all the various small accommodations there are for people with disabilities, but I don't expect them. For every time a parking spot made life easier there's another ten times where I struggled silently in a public space. We simply can't expect every public location to make sacrifices for every potential problem, when it almost always comes at a cost of others.

No one wants to be disabled in any way, I sure as Hell wish I wasn't, but it's wrong for us to demand the vast majority of others to adapt to our own needs rather than accept we have some limitations and can't get absolutely everything out of life as easily as anyone else.
 
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contemplationistwolf

The Restless Maverick
I personally don't consider my Asperger's to even be a disability, just a difference, though the kind that makes it difficult to fit in with neurotypicals. I don't feel inferior in any way. Fretting about "societal injustices" is something I used to do a lot, but something I got over as I realized that it's an unhealthy waste of time, especially when you are too inexperienced to understand how society really works and too powerless to make any difference. Society is the way it is, and all I can do is account for it. I most likely won't be the one to benefit from whatever societal improvements happen, as by that point I'll already have adapted.

Thinking of accommodations, what would have been nice in my youth is a chance to talk to others on the spectrum, especially older ones who had successfully adapted to living with it. As it was, my parents didn't really understand it, my school didn't understand it, society as a whole didn't understand it (awareness of this was very low in my country back then), and I myself didn't understand it. Things just kept going to shit and no-one understood how to deal with it right. Proper mentoring would have allowed me to understand what was really going on, what others were really thinking, and how I could have properly resolved the problems that arose. The fact that awareness of the spectrum is rising and that those on the spectrum themselves are increasingly talking about it is IMO a really good thing.

What I don't care about at all is demanding neurotypicals to become some sort of "autism experts" who have to perfectly cater and be sensitive to us. I don't believe such efforts would be productive ... and from what I've seen in recent times, I wouldn't trust the people behind such efforts to run them properly, and perhaps even honestly. There's a fine line between supporting growth and accommodating failure; I support the former and oppose the latter. The vast majority of neurotypicals don't actually have any malicious intent towards those on the spectrum, so smooth coexistence and cooperation are perfectly possible. The difference in brain operation is not insurmountable (in fact, I suspect it doesn't even have to be difficult).
I think it's on us to understand how our neurological divergence works and how it relates to society, and that it's on us to stand up for ourselves and find the right place in society. This is what I will be doing, rather than fretting over neurotypicals not being instantly sensitive or accommodating to me.
 

Firuthi Dragovic

Gamer Dragon, former speedrunner
Fretting about "societal injustices" is something I used to do a lot, but something I got over as I realized that it's an unhealthy waste of time, especially when you are too inexperienced to understand how society really works and too powerless to make any difference.
Honestly, that's the lesson I learned over the last two years. There is simply WAY TOO MUCH for me to comprehend and further attempts have actually been the prime cause of meltdowns. The catch now is PURGING some of the pent-up rage I've had as a direct result without actually hurting anyone.

I've gotten to the point where if anyone tries the language on me I can often twist it on them. Not an ability I WANT to be using, but sometimes I can't hold it.

As it was, my parents didn't really understand it, my school didn't understand it, society as a whole didn't understand it (awareness of this was very low in my country back then), and I myself didn't understand it. Things just kept going to shit and no-one understood how to deal with it right.
I may have had issues after college, but I think the main reason my parents actually tried with me was because the nurse that first diagnosed me when I was little wanted me committed (this was the late '80s, I GUARANTEE we've got someone on this forum that actually got stuck in a mental hospital or asylum who can explain how badly this kind of thing goes). I was about to get ROYALLY screwed.

I don't know how much actual understanding there was, as my parents still think everyone is a little bit autistic (I'm not pushing them on it anymore, they're past the point where getting them to care will mean much).

What I don't care about at all is demanding neurotypicals to become some sort of "autism experts" who have to perfectly cater and be sensitive to us. I don't believe such efforts would be productive ... and from what I've seen in recent times, I wouldn't trust the people behind such efforts to run them properly, and perhaps even honestly. There's a fine line between supporting growth and accommodating failure; I support the former and oppose the latter.
Wouldn't want ordinary people to try to become autism experts either. I'm the one with the condition, I'm supposed to know it well enough and without diving into politics, I'll say that I find it hard to trust ANY authority anymore.
 

contemplationistwolf

The Restless Maverick
Honestly, that's the lesson I learned over the last two years. There is simply WAY TOO MUCH for me to comprehend and further attempts have actually been the prime cause of meltdowns.
Yeah, the world is a complicated place ... The more you learn, the more you see how little you know as the unknown unknowns become known unknowns, and you realize that the space of unknown unknowns is even greater than you initially thought.
We have limited time and mental ability, so we have to choose what we learn. Choosing the right pieces of information to gather, the right things to analyze is a complicated process on its own. I'm still very much interested in building an effective general model of the world though as it will allow me to predict things more accurately and make better life-decisions ... though who knows, perhaps it would be smarter to just accept ignorance, settle into some tiny comfortable niche and hope for the best. Not my style though, guess I'll get to see if it works out.

The catch now is PURGING some of the pent-up rage I've had as a direct result without actually hurting anyone.
Yeah, I'm definitely familiar to pent-up rage myself. It's definitely good to have people willing to listen to it, so you can get feedback on whether it's sensible or not and what would be the right way forward.

I may have had issues after college, but I think the main reason my parents actually tried with me was because the nurse that first diagnosed me when I was little wanted me committed (this was the late '80s, I GUARANTEE we've got someone on this forum that actually got stuck in a mental hospital or asylum who can explain how badly this kind of thing goes). I was about to get ROYALLY screwed.
God that's scary! Perhaps it's in a weird way good that there was little knowledge of this stuff in my country. I'd take the pain and conflicts anytime over a mental institution.
The doctors actually wanted to admit me to some institution too when I was a toddler, but my parents fortunately rejected it. Not sure if it was a long-term thing, but glad it didn't happen. They actually did try too, but they got overwhelmed with their own lives. I had rather young parents (got me while they were in Uni).
 

Parabellum3

I'm not a furry if I have feathers.
I actually heard that the term Aspergers is no longer used in medicine or the latest version of DSM. So technically we’re all Autistic since it’s the same thing (officially).
 

MaelstromEyre

Slippery When Wet
This question right here sort of highlights a piece of clarification that's sorely missing from this entire discussion: what sort of accommodations should society make for autistic people?

I am curious about this as well.

Obviously, in a workplace or classroom, a person can request "reasonable accommodation" under the ADA. It might be additional time to take an exam, or permission to wear noise cancelling headphones. It has to be reasonable, though, without causing major expense or hardship to the school/employer, and done with the understanding that the person receiving accommodation will be able to do their work.
 

Parabellum3

I'm not a furry if I have feathers.
Oh yo guys! Here is an informative, well-made, spectacular documentary about Autism made by the TRUE AND HONEST Christian Weston Chandler, the OG creator of the Sonichu and Rosechu comics as well as being the most documented man in the entire world!

 

Yakamaru

Level 32 Knight
This question right here sort of highlights a piece of clarification that's sorely missing from this entire discussion: what sort of accommodations should society make for autistic people?
Now that I think about it..

This is a good question. What accommodations should society/other people make for Autistic people?
 
Interesting discussion.

Regarding making accomodations for autistic people. It's important to remember you're dealing with a diagnosable mental condition that effects your thought patters, sometimes it can be debilitating but other times the effects are marginal. Personally when it comes to interacting with people on the spectrum i feel it's important to take into account how, generally, autistic people tend to believe they're intrinsically more logical/rational than others while not really understanding how their emotions can effect them. Generally you have to approach autistic people a little differently to ensure they can understand where you're coming from, and vice versa. It's simply about employing courtesy and mindfulness to ensure more positive interactions. The self entitlement angle i don't really understand, we should be aware of how the condition effects people and adjust accordingly.
 

Parabellum3

I'm not a furry if I have feathers.
Besides having your intelligence screwed, how does it impact your social life? Do you even have friends in person? Relationships? Have you ever unintentionally hurt or "make people uncomfortable" due to your inability to pick up social cues? Discriminated? Ever also been labeled a creep, psychopath, mass shooter, serial killer, etc? I just can't imagine how much longer are we (and I) supposed to cope with this shit.

Going further into philosophy, we will all perish earlier in one way another thanks to natural selection since the mortality rate is twice as high compared to the general population. Then I keep asking myself, what's the point of living then? What am I supposed to accomplish when death is heading at twice the speed for me? But then again I don't know what happens after death, do I get reincarnated and the cycle continues? That'd make the most sense I suppose. Regardless, there are so many questions, but no answers. Why does it have to be like this? That's my real question.
 
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Firuthi Dragovic

Gamer Dragon, former speedrunner
Besides having your intelligence screwed, how does it impact your social life? Do you even have friends in person? Relationships? Have you ever unintentionally hurt or "make people uncomfortable" due to your inability to pick up social cues? Discriminated? Ever also been labeled a creep, psychopath, mass shooter, serial killer, etc? I just can't imagine how much longer are we (and I) supposed to cope with this shit.

The last time I called someone a friend proper, I wound up finding out they were only using me to distract themselves from their miserable home life - and when I called them out on something else related to gaming, they decided I was to blame for bringing it up in the first place. So I ditched them.

I have good acquaintances. I don't have people I truly consider "friends". And I certainly haven't been in a relationship in years, but that's because I have simply had no interest whatsoever. I've only cared about it at times when I've been more stable financially - there is no way I'm being the burden in a relationship.

Made people uncomfortable? Yeah, this still happens on occasion, and is part of the main reason why I don't tend to seek out friendships.

Discriminated? Described that one already - tried getting assistance once, was told I "didn't look autistic". I don't generally get it when I'm out and about though.

Creep/etc.? No, I don't get any of that. In fact, even remotely associating me with any of that is a MAJOR berserk button thanks to that prick from Newtown.

I really can't answer much in the way of philosophy. Mainly because I was nudged into accomplishing WAY TOO MUCH before I hit my early twenties. I burnt out HARD and am just worried about surviving and "being me" now.
 

Parabellum3

I'm not a furry if I have feathers.
The last time I called someone a friend proper, I wound up finding out they were only using me to distract themselves from their miserable home life - and when I called them out on something else related to gaming, they decided I was to blame for bringing it up in the first place. So I ditched them.

I have good acquaintances. I don't have people I truly consider "friends". And I certainly haven't been in a relationship in years, but that's because I have simply had no interest whatsoever. I've only cared about it at times when I've been more stable financially - there is no way I'm being the burden in a relationship.

Made people uncomfortable? Yeah, this still happens on occasion, and is part of the main reason why I don't tend to seek out friendships.

Discriminated? Described that one already - tried getting assistance once, was told I "didn't look autistic". I don't generally get it when I'm out and about though.

Creep/etc.? No, I don't get any of that. In fact, even remotely associating me with any of that is a MAJOR berserk button thanks to that prick from Newtown.

I really can't answer much in the way of philosophy. Mainly because I was nudged into accomplishing WAY TOO MUCH before I hit my early twenties. I burnt out HARD and am just worried about surviving and "being me" now.
Another thing I don’t get is what’s even the point of life when death will come naturally? Wouldn’t it make sense then to just go straight to the climax (or anti-climax) and avoid the pain that life provides us? We also better at least have first class tickets to heaven if we choose to endure it further.
 
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