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Barack Obama

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Acorndeer

Member
nobuyuki said:
Dave: Shoulda heard his bid for presidency (last, what was it, saturday?) when he said he was going to officially enter the race. He called for a lot of things -- while they may not technically have been promises, I liked what I was hearing in terms of progressive thinking.

I liked that too. Though had it with a bit of delay as I live in Finland.
 

Acorndeer

Member
Hanazawa said:
Hey Acorndeer, why don't you run for president? You seem to have perfected the skills of side-talking and avoiding the issue.

And what issue am I avoiding? Did I raise any other issues than "What's your opinion about this?" or did I say anything that led you believe that I will analyze and provide answers to anything?
 

Hanazawa

Would Like To Play a Game
Hey, dude. I contributed my part and the only response I got was a side-spoken comment about how my post (and others) were "uncivilized" simply because he didn't like what I said. After he finally clarified his point to someone else, I responded again with a statement pointing out his faulty logic, and he came back with a snarky response that I think was supposed to mock me but instead only succeeded in further supporting my point. When I mentioned that, he came back again with yet another comment-to-someone-else about how my posts were "uncivilized". His last response to me is grammatically fucky and I still don't know what exactly he was trying to say.

I'm not overreacting, I'm telling him he's wrong. :|
 
nobuyuki said:
Please, furry fandom, don't ruin Barack Obama for me by trying to show how closely you align with the guy's politics. You've already ruined ancient egypt, penn and teller, and robin hood. Just.... just stop.

you're giving them ideas!!! D8<
 

Acorndeer

Member
sunshyne said:
I'm a hardcore Obama supporter but, like everybody else, I don't think him getting elected is going to make the public feel any different about the furry life... And when you think about it, the worst we get is news stories portraying us in a negative light, and peope coming on our sites to call us freaks. We're not REALLY persecuted, like some sectors of our society (among them the gays, the poor, minorities, etc) and I think he CAN help change that.

Ironically, I was already working on a reference sheet I plan on uploading this weekend, in which my character's wearing an Obama campaign t-shirt

You make a good point there :) We are not really persecuted, but still, if minorities meet more tolerance, get better education and can afford a better style of life, they are less likely trying to find other minorities to attack to pull the "fire" elsewhere.
And Obama can change situation to better for gays, and the poor, and by so helping also furries, because some of us are people from those minorities too. :)

Hanazawa said:
Hey, dude. I contributed my part and the only response I got was a side-spoken comment about how my post (and others) were "uncivilized" simply because he didn't like what I said. After he finally clarified his point to someone else, I responded again with a statement pointing out his faulty logic, and he came back with a snarky response that I think was supposed to mock me but instead only succeeded in further supporting my point. When I mentioned that, he came back again with yet another comment-to-someone-else about how my posts were "uncivilized". His last response to me is grammatically fucky and I still don't know what exactly he was trying to say.

I'm not overreacting, I'm telling him he's wrong. :|

And I didn't say I am right about anything, but that what I said is how I see it :)
And by the time our president got elected first time, she's accused of lesbianity (eventhough she's hetero), I came out of the closet.

Now, all the snarly you see in my comments is just your own inability to do backround research. And uncivilized is to attack a poster who doesn't attack you, and even less convincing is to use "LOLWTF UR STUPID" remarks if you want to be taken seriously yourself.
All that was taken by offence was in your head, starting from original post in which case you threw poo to begin with ;)

I am not bickering, I tried to joke it off but clearly you lack the sense of humor.

Your view I accept, You don't think Obama could anyway positively reflect to any part of the society, I feel differently, it is my right to feel so.
Unlike congress, this thread was supposen to be a place to share opinions, not to bash others opinions. That way actually contributing to conversation instead of escalating it to an argument.
 

Acorndeer

Member
soundhound said:
this is the most hilarious post in the history of ever

Thank you :D Glad you're having as much fun as I am :wink:
 

imnohbody

Member
blueroo said:
WHPellic said:
blueroo said:
Ok, you got me. I am Barack Obama.

No, you are Blueroo, Destroyer of Furry Conventions. :wink:

I am known by many names, the least of these being "".

Yes, but do they call you Tim?
 

Foxstar

lol reggin
Acorndeer said:
You make a good point there :) We are not really persecuted, but still, if minorities meet more tolerance, get better education and can afford a better style of life, they are less likely trying to find other minorities to attack to pull the "fire" elsewhere.
And Obama can change situation to better for gays, and the poor, and by so helping also furries, because some of us are people from those minorities too. :)

Your not persecuted at all. Stop with this idiotic crap. Minorities are so glamorzied and tolerated to the point where low points of their cultures are glamored and used to make money hand over fist, INS is always lambasted when they raid some meat plant as the devil and for the last five years, i've seen the rapid encrouchment of Spanish on my packages. Furry is not a freaking minority. Furry is NOT in need of the damned NAACP to march on DC and sing "We shall overcome." while Jessie threatens boycotts on various products and places they don't open up their checkbook. It's not a lifestyle and if you teach it like such, your not only doing it wrong but any viewpoint you may have is automaticaly declared null and void because retards aren't allowed to vote.

Obama change what? I can take care of things for gays right now. It's called "Keep your affection to your own homes or in places that cowtow to you." because the nasty breeders will always outnumber you and most of them don't want to see you flame and suck face in public. Deal with it. That's right. Deal with it. Gay people, your struggles are not the same as black people's were nor will they ever be. Your cries for adoption of children and wanting legal props for slipping a ring on your SO's finger pale compared to what blacks faced.
Remember that.

Poor? Go to school. Try working more the 40 hours a week. Save up your money and move to a new city where the jobs are better paying. Stop paying for furcons, art and sextoys on credit cards, ditto for your entertainment. Save your money. Eat cheaper. Get rid of shit you don't need (IE-Your internet unless your taking classes on it.) and put the money into investments. Take that burger flipping job, that ditch digging job or that nasty overnight stock job. Don't wait for Obama to create yet one more twisted welfare program for you to leech money from, sit around and cry about how life isn't fair. Get out and go bust your ass for a year or two, use the above tips and then see what you've got then.

Obama if he had any idea of what furry was would back away as quickly as possable, so would the rest of the DNC. Don't think laws, programs and other goverment funded lulz is going to change things to where a hobby will become a socialy accepted lifestyle.
 

nobuyuki

Member

dave hyena

A wonderous moorhen
Foxstar said:
the nasty breeders will always outnumber you and most of them don't want to see you flame and suck face in public. Deal with it. That's right. Deal with it.

You don't speak for all "breeders", thus what you really mean is you don't want to see gay people sharing affection in public.

Might I enquire, does that attitude apply to hetrosexual displays of affection or lesbians or is it only gay males? :)

Gay people, your struggles are not the same as black people's were nor will they ever be. Your cries for adoption of children and wanting legal props for slipping a ring on your SO's finger pale compared to what blacks faced.
Remember that.

Do you know where the pink triangle symbol came from?

Concentration camps.

Did you know that at least 15,000 gay men perished in the holocaust? Furthermore, they were singled out for the harshest treatment in the camps.

There is a famous illustration from the middle ages depicting people being burnt at the stake for the crime of sodomy.

I think it would be a wicked thing for people to start playing the numbers game and declare that some group suffered more than another because more people died or whatever.

However, I do think it is the hight of ignorence and disrespect to declare that the suffering and deaths of thousands of LGBT people who have been persecuted throughout human history is "not the same" compared to the suffering of another group of people.  LGBT people have been persecuted and killed throughout human history and that persecution happens today in many countries all around the world.

An interesting thing: some people in the american anti-slavery movement were opposed to women haveing the right to vote. Thus, I suppose it is not so strange that some people who support the right of black people not to be discriminated against, should not support the right of gay people not to be discriminated against.
 

Litre

Member
It's safe to say that while that's saddening, that was part of a wider scope of killings, and the fact it was happening in another part of the world, by a totally different cause.

This is society not adjusting yet to a "norm" being broken, not the will of an angsty dictator who didn't get into art school.
 

Foxstar

lol reggin
Foxstar said:
the nasty breeders will always outnumber you and most of them don't want to see you flame and suck face in public. Deal with it. That's right. Deal with it.

Dave Hyena said:
You don't speak for all "breeders", thus what you really mean is you don't want to see gay people sharing affection in public.

Might I enquire, does that attitude apply to hetrosexual displays of affection or lesbians or is it only gay males? :)

It really applies to both. And I bi, but I twist in my negro skin every time gay folks cry over people making faces when they nibble on each other's ears. Yes it would also apply to lesbians too.

Foxstar said:
Gay people, your struggles are not the same as black people's were nor will they ever be. Your cries for adoption of children and wanting legal props for slipping a ring on your SO's finger pale compared to what blacks faced. Remember that.



Dave Hyena said:
Do you know where the pink triangle symbol came from?

Concentration camps.

Did you know that at least 15,000 gay men perished in the holocaust? Furthermore, they were singled out for the harshest treatment in the camps.

Duh. What of it? The nazis killed everyone remember? Hitler was many, many things, but he had people from all walks of life murdered in the same ways.


Dave Hyena said:
There is a famous illustration from the middle ages depicting people being burnt at the stake for the crime of sodomy.

I think it would be a wicked thing for people to start playing the numbers game and declare that some group suffered more than another because more people died or whatever.

Yet you just played a round of that very same game by pointing out what the nazi's did. You don't see me dragging out the numbers of black people who died via slavery/whatnot so why are you trying to trot that pony around the yard? Shall I point out that one can not stop being black but one can be gay and people not find out for years, if ever? Not...the...same..thing. Sorry.
 

dave hyena

A wonderous moorhen
Foxstar said:
It really applies to both. And I bi, but I twist in my negro skin every time gay folks cry over people making faces when they nibble on each other's ears. Yes it would also apply to lesbians too.

So it's an issue of you not liking what you consider to be excessive displays of affection in public then. :)

Foxstar said:
Duh. What of it? The nazis killed everyone remember? Hitler was many, many things, but he had people from all walks of life murdered in the same ways.
...
Yet you just played a round of that very same game by pointing out what the nazi's did.
...
Shall I point out that one can not stop being black but one can be gay and people not find out for years, if ever? Not...the...same..thing. Sorry.

The what of it is that LGBT people have suffered for being what they are, just as people have suffered for the colour of their skin. I mentioned the deaths in the concentration camps etc as a reminder that LGBT people have suffered organised and deliberate persecution as a matter of policy, just as have black people. Therefore to declare that the struggle of the LGBT people for civil rights "is not the same thing" as black people struggling for civil rights is an ignorent and insulting thing to say in my opinion.

In relation to your second point, LGBT people can pretend to be other than what they are, but this literally destroys lives. The suicide rate amongst LGBT people is significently higher than average in Britain for example and it is belived that people saying in the closet etc, plays it's part. No one should have to deny what they are or be punished for it in my opinion.
 

nobuyuki

Member
Dave Hyena said:
So it's an issue of you not liking what you consider to be excessive displays of affection in public then. :)

If you don't think that society as a whole in general is offended by public displays of affection (no matter what gender or sexual orientation) then you are deluded. It's rude.

The what of it is that LGBT people have suffered for being what they are, just as people have suffered for the colour of their skin. I mentioned the deaths in the concentration camps etc as a reminder that LGBT people have suffered organised and deliberate persecution as a matter of policy, just as have black people. Therefore to declare that the struggle of the LGBT people for civil rights "is not the same thing" as black people struggling for civil rights is an ignorent and insulting thing to say in my opinion.

Maybe it's insulting to you, but you're wrongfully assuming and believing that all LGBT people "are" that way (that is, "born" that way) vs. those who chose to be that way. Once again denying there are LGBT people who chose to be that way out of some circumstance in their life / development would be an absurd claim to make. Those who chose their way of life (no matter what the circumstances) cannot be compared to those who have no other choice but to be what they are.

In relation to your second point, LGBT people can pretend to be other than what they are, but this literally destroys lives. The suicide rate amongst LGBT people is significently higher than average in Britain for example and it is belived that people saying in the closet etc, plays it's part. No one should have to deny what they are or be punished for it in my opinion.

I know a lot of LGBT people who can live perfectly normal lives without having to scream out to the world their sexuality, as well as a lot of normal people. I wonder how many studies have done over straight people who committed suicide because they're not allowed to express their sexuality? (Yes, in a conservative area this is common.) I'm guessing there's a hell of a lot more of those -- but that's to be expected, because homosexuals only make up 2-10% of the population. And yet, the notion is still absurd because we find such discretion to be acceptable in our society (except the most extreme militant liberal thinkers who believe sex in general should be exposed to everyone whether they like it or not -- conservative people, children, the ignorant, etc).
 

Hanazawa

Would Like To Play a Game
I'm just going to make my point one more time:

A single person cannot make the world more tolerant. Tolerance/racism/oppression/persecution is not an issue that can be resolved through logic because at its core it's an emotional concern on the part of the "bigot", and you can't dictate how other people should feel. Changing their thinking will not change how most people feel, and anyone who is swayed as such was either in denial about their feelings or was going to come to them eventually anyway.

And since someone brought up the fact that gay suicide rates are higher than average (in a single country?), what about the male versus female suicide rates? Women are three times more likely to try, but men are four times more likely to succeed. Does that mean women are more oppressed, but men are more efficient? (as a female who has been forced to read all kinds of crap about how women are oppressed, I don't believe it.)

How many of those suicidal homosexuals were teenagers? They're already at higher risk anyway. How many of them identified as homosexual at the time of the suicide, but would have "grown out of it"* when they got older had they survived? How many of them were elderly, as they seem to have higher rates than teenagers?

* - I'm not saying you can "grow out of" true homosexuality, I'm saying teenagers experiment and get confused.

And what the hell does this have to do with anything in the first place?
 

Surgat

Where is your mod now?
Dave Hyena said:
Do you know where the pink triangle symbol came from?

Concentration camps.

Did you know that at least 15,000 gay men perished in the holocaust? Furthermore, they were singled out for the harshest treatment in the camps.

There is a famous illustration from the middle ages depicting people being burnt at the stake for the crime of sodomy.

You can also add the fact that it used to be listed as a mental illness in the DSM, and a criminal offense. Case in point: Alan turing.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alan_turing#Prosecution_for_homosexual_acts_and_Turing.27s_death

nobuyuki said:
Maybe it's insulting to you, but you're wrongfully assuming and believing that all LGBT people "are" that way (that is, "born" that way) vs. those who chose to be that way. Once again denying there are LGBT people who chose to be that way out of some circumstance in their life / development would be an absurd claim to make. Those who chose their way of life (no matter what the circumstances) cannot be compared to those who have no other choice but to be what they are.
There's no scientific evidence to suggest that sexual orientation is a choice; the American Psychological Association doesn't think it's a choice either:
http://www.apa.org/topics/orientation.html#choice
http://www.apa.org/topics/orientation.html#whatcauses
APA said:
Is Sexual Orientation a Choice?

No, human beings can not choose to be either gay or straight. Sexual orientation emerges for most people in early adolescence without any prior sexual experience. Although we can choose whether to act on our feelings, psychologists do not consider sexual orientation to be a conscious choice that can be voluntarily changed.


nobuyuki said:
I know a lot of LGBT people who can live perfectly normal lives without having to scream out to the world their sexuality, as well as a lot of normal people. I wonder how many studies have done over straight people who committed suicide because they're not allowed to express their sexuality? (Yes, in a conservative area this is common.) I'm guessing there's a hell of a lot more of those -- but that's to be expected, because homosexuals only make up 2-10% of the population. And yet, the notion is still absurd because we find such discretion to be acceptable in our society (except the most extreme militant liberal thinkers who believe sex in general should be exposed to everyone whether they like it or not -- conservative people, children, the ignorant, etc).

Merely being "out of the closet" is not the same as "screaming out to the world about [one's] sexuality."

I want to see some evidence for this claim of yours, too:
I wonder how many studies have done over straight people who committed suicide because they're not allowed to express their sexuality? (Yes, in a conservative area this is common.)"(Yes, in a conservative area this is common.)

How many heterosexuals are beaten or fired just for saying that they're straight? How many heterosexuals are "in the closet" about their orientation, and have to pose as homosexuals or bisexuals for fear of repercussions?
 
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