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Beastars Analysis! (spoilers warning)

Nihles

Pet foxxo
Rofl. Everyone I have talked to about it says that the chicken episode is either one of the show's strongest, or one of it's worst, episodes. No fans seem to be indifferent towards it. I'm in the camp of loving the idiocy and satire in it.
 

Thatch

Still not at 10k posts
I don't think Zootopia had a message about racism. It was just that thats the thing people took away from it, and it's just like "...no."

I feel like Beaststars actually took the plot from Zootopia and took it to it's logical conclusion. Zootopia tried to skirt by by saying the carnivores were surviving off of fish. >u>
Nah bruh...

I feel you're missing the point that in Zootopia, it was about how lingering prejudices easily surface with the tiniest nudge. Also "So there's a them now". You know, actual society stuff. Not that it did it brilliantly, but it's there.

Beaststars is just "look it's just like 20th century AND YET SOMEHOW PREDATION IS A THING THAT EXISTS". Because we all know our current sociaty was built around the goddamn Purge.
It's one of those stupid shows that do a thing that is inherently illogical, then goes through plot contortions trying to stick with it when it clearly stops making sense, i.e. anything that takes place outside of the school.
But I guess it doesn't matter that much, since you can barely focus on the nonsensical world-building while the dialogue makes you cringe so hard your bones start cracking.
 

PercyD

Lover of Beasty Baes
I feel you're missing the point that in Zootopia, it was about how lingering prejudices easily surface with the tiniest nudge. Also "So there's a them now". You know, actual society stuff. Not that it did it brilliantly, but it's there.

Beaststars is just "look it's just like 20th century AND YET SOMEHOW PREDATION IS A THING THAT EXISTS". Because we all know our current sociaty was built around the goddamn Purge.
It's one of those stupid shows that do a thing that is inherently illogical, then goes through plot contortions trying to stick with it when it clearly stops making sense, i.e. anything that takes place outside of the school.
But I guess it doesn't matter that much, since you can barely focus on the nonsensical world-building while the dialogue makes you cringe so hard your bones start cracking.
I don't think I am. Prejudice is not the same as racism. Racism in America is a system used to oppress and profiteer off of minority groups. It's not and will never be a one-to-one comparison. Carnivores are actually capable of killing herbivores. Minorities do not and will not ever prose that risk to the gentry. In fact, it's racist to try to make that comparison. Zootopia doesn't do this, but people are trying to apply that distinction. -A distinction, by the way, that is incredibly incorrect-- thats the point I am making.

I'll take it further and say no. Beaststars is not trying to make that distinction either. It's just people incorrectly applying it. Also, we are in the 21st century now. The 20th century is like, WWI and the Charleston.
I'm not sure where the rest of your post is going at this point. Are you just... trying to communicate with me that you don't like Beaststars...? I mean, thats fine if you don't. But I don't see a point in communicating that with me, on a thread thats for talking about Beaststars analysis. Great for you that you are able to tell me you don't like a thing...?
 
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Thatch

Still not at 10k posts
I don't think I am. Prejudice is not the same as racism. Racism in America is a system used to oppress and profiteer off of minority groups. It's not and will never be a one-to-one comparison. Carnivores are actually capable of killing herbivores. Minorities do not and will not ever prose that risk to the gentry. In fact, it's racist to try to make that comparison. Zootopia doesn't do this, but people are trying to apply that distinction. -A distinction, by the way, that is incredibly incorrect-- thats the point I am making.
You are correct, Zootopia is not talking about the kind of systemic, institutionalised racism prevalent in USA. But that's merely the logical conclusion of letting racism run rampant, not what racism is. Racism is a type of prejudice. And it doesn't have to be negative either. "All asians are good at math" is racism too. Meanwhile, Zootopia talked about a society which considered itself free of prejudice (as per the school play opening) only to show that prejudice is very much alive and only waiting on a trigger. Very much like America declared itself "not racist anymore" once Obama got elected. How did that work out.
I'll take it further and say no. Beaststars is not trying to make that distinction either. It's just people incorrectly applying it. Also, we are in the 21st century now. The 20th century is like, WWI and the Charleston.
The way they dress, communicate, the architecture ect., it is pretty 50-60s to me. 20th century.
I'm not sure where the rest of your post is going at this point. Are you just... trying to communicate with me that you don't like Beaststars...? I mean, thats fine if you don't. But I don't see a point in communicating that with me, on a thread thats for talking about Beaststars analysis. Great for you that you are able to tell me you don't like a thing...?
No, I don't like beaststars. I was referring to the "logical conlcusion" part, i.e. the there is no logical basis for the conclusion beaststars arrives at. It's just... "cool stuff" mushed together with no rime or reason other than "is edgy". That's in contrast to Zootopia, which built a world that's actually meant to work, then runs with it.
 

PercyD

Lover of Beasty Baes
You are correct, Zootopia is not talking about the kind of systemic, institutionalised racism prevalent in USA. But that's merely the logical conclusion of letting racism run rampant, not what racism is. Racism is a type of prejudice. And it doesn't have to be negative either. "All asians are good at math" is racism too. Meanwhile, Zootopia talked about a society which considered itself free of prejudice (as per the school play opening) only to show that prejudice is very much alive and only waiting on a trigger. Very much like America declared itself "not racist anymore" once Obama got elected. How did that work out.
I've got to disagree. Racism isn't just 'prejudice'. And, if you agree that Zootopia and Beaststars do not contain one-to-one comparisons, then you can't say in the same breath that it's the "logical conclusion" of letting racism run rampant.
I don't really want to talk about what racism is any more at this point. This conversation makes me tired, mostly because racism is not just some mental exercise for me. I live in this system, and it's exhausting. Just know that it's not applicable to Zootopia or Beaststars, since I've rehashed those talking points a couple times on this thread, twice with you. Moving on-

The way they dress, communicate, the architecture ect., it is pretty 50-60s to me. 20th century.

Swing dances and big band aesthetic, 50s and 60s is... I guess? However, if 50's-60's aesthetic is not your cup of tea, thats okay. It's just... not analysis?

No, I don't like beaststars. I was referring to the "logical conlcusion" part, i.e. the there is no logical basis for the conclusion beaststars arrives at. It's just... "cool stuff" mushed together with no rime or reason other than "is edgy". That's in contrast to Zootopia, which built a world that's actually meant to work, then runs with it.
Here we go, the analysis.
It's the "logical conclusion" because Beaststars actually addresses what Zootopia does not: which is, how to handle a society where the minority requires meat to survive.

In Zootopia, they just say that all the carnivores eat fish and other meat-products that aren't sentient in this universe. It's Disney, so they are not going to straight on approach the topic. This approach is not a bad treatment of the subject, per say. My statement on this is just a valid observation.

In the contrary, in Beaststars, they straight on acknowledge that carnivores need meat whether it had been sentient or not. The meat Beaststars' carnivores need must come from herbivores- thats the logical conclusion I'm referring to here.
This treatment is reasonable and it makes sense. However, if that seems to be only dark edge fluff to you, you're entitled to that opinion as well. I just will submit to you my definition of actual "edgy stuff".
Primarily, excessively edgy shit to me is death and violence to femme characters for the sole purpose of giving some male character an arc. Usually it's some woman who has to suffer or die for any thing to be done. Thats actual unnecessary edge.

Further, I'll give Beaststars points for not doing that with Haru. She gets kidnapped because she is small. Her suffering is for her own development. Legogogogogo is only there to get her out of a horrible situation so she can survive to complete her arc. I actually like the treatment for Haru's character in general. It's a fresh bit of air for me.
 

Thatch

Still not at 10k posts
I've got to disagree. Racism isn't just 'prejudice'. And, if you agree that Zootopia and Beaststars do not contain one-to-one comparisons, then you can't say in the same breath that it's the "logical conclusion" of letting racism run rampant.
I don't really want to talk about what racism is any more at this point. This conversation makes me tired, mostly because racism is not just some mental exercise for me. I live in this system, and it's exhausting. Just know that it's not applicable to Zootopia or Beaststars, since I've rehashed those talking points a couple times on this thread, twice with you. Moving on-
Ok, you misunderstood me there. The situation in the USA is the logical conlusion of racism running rampant, not Zootopia/Beastars.


Swing dances and big band aesthetic, 50s and 60s is... I guess? However, if 50's-60's aesthetic is not your cup of tea, thats okay. It's just... not analysis?
That wasn't criticising it being 20th century specifically, I was pointing out that it's OUR, human, 20th century.

Here we go, the analysis.
It's the "logical conclusion" because Beaststars actually addresses what Zootopia does not: which is, how to handle a society where the minority requires meat to survive.

In Zootopia, they just say that all the carnivores eat fish and other meat-products that aren't sentient in this universe. It's Disney, so they are not going to straight on approach the topic. This approach is not a bad treatment of the subject, per say. My statement on this is just a valid observation.

Last I checked WE, humans, eat meat. We don't eat people. We eat "fish and other meat-products that aren't sentient in this universe". It's not some kind of unrealistic concept. Furthermore, what the movie seems to imply is that before they "civilised" they DID eat eachother. So they stopped eating eachother before they got to building a society. That sounds like a logical progression. In contrast to Beaststars:


In the contrary, in Beaststars, they straight on acknowledge that carnivores need meat whether it had been sentient or not. The meat Beaststars' carnivores need must come from herbivores- thats the logical conclusion I'm referring to here.
This treatment is reasonable and it makes sense. However, if that seems to be only dark edge fluff to you, you're entitled to that opinion as well. I just will submit to you my definition of actual "edgy stuff".
Primarily, excessively edgy shit to me is death and violence to femme characters for the sole purpose of giving some male character an arc. Usually it's some woman who has to suffer or die for any thing to be done. Thats actual unnecessary edge.

What I was getting at, is that you cannot get the end product of "20th century but anthro" by starting at "people eat eachother". And that's what Beaststars is, a nearly verbatim illustration of roughly mid-20th century life, just with anthros. Our human world is what it is because we have certain social standard, and not predating on other people is one of the crucial aspects of that. In other words, you do not get 20th century if everyone's murdering and eating eachother. Instead, you get ISIS :V
That's why I'm praising Zootopia. It's not just our human world but with anthros, it's it's own world that formed out of it's own first principles. Beaststars premise contradicts it's conclusion.

Further, I'll give Beaststars points for not doing that with Haru. She gets kidnapped because she is small. Her suffering is for her own development. Legogogogogo is only there to get her out of a horrible situation so she can survive to complete her arc. I actually like the treatment for Haru's character in general. It's a fresh bit of air for me.


BTW, Haru - "My body wants to enter your mouth" (or however that went, paraphrasing from memory). Haru is not a character, she's is a unfortunate anime/manga stereotype. One of the perverted ones.
 

PercyD

Lover of Beasty Baes
Last I checked WE, humans, eat meat. We don't eat people. We eat "fish and other meat-products that aren't sentient in this universe". It's not some kind of unrealistic concept. Furthermore, what the movie seems to imply is that before they "civilised" they DID eat eachother. So they stopped eating eachother before they got to building a society. That sounds like a logical progression. In contrast to Beaststars:
I'm not really getting your point here. Mostly because I don't see a reason to compare Zootopia/Beaststars to our world. at all. Human beings are also the only sentient civilized species on Earth. Theres not something side by side to compare here.

What I was getting at, is that you cannot get the end product of "20th century but anthro" by starting at "people eat eachother". And that's what Beaststars is, a nearly verbatim illustration of roughly mid-20th century life, just with anthros. Our human world is what it is because we have certain social standard, and not predating on other people is one of the crucial aspects of that. In other words, you do not get 20th century if everyone's murdering and eating eachother. Instead, you get ISIS :V
I'm gonna ignore that ISIS bit because this isn't a political conversation. Plus its irrelevant, like I said. You can't make the same comparisons of inter-species relationships because there is none. Besides, I want to discuss stupid furry animal people. K thx.

That's why I'm praising Zootopia. It's not just our human world but with anthros, it's it's own world that formed out of it's own first principles. Beaststars premise contradicts it's conclusion.

Any way, I would have to disagree. In Beaststars, eating other sentient creatures is also not allowed. I dunno if this is because the anime wasn't your cup of tea, so you didn't watch it all the way through, but it wasn't to be taken lightly that someone was eaten.
What I am praising Beaststars for is doing a better job at acknowledging that carnivores cannot survive without meat, and exploring that topic more indepth. I feel it adds to the world, especially when they met the homeless goat man selling his own fingers.
BTW, Haru - "My body wants to enter your mouth" (or however that went, paraphrasing from memory). Haru is not a character, she's is a unfortunate anime/manga stereotype. One of the perverted ones.

No sir or madam, Haru is my perverted character-

Frankly, I would go further to say she isn't an anime/manga sterotype. The sterotype would be some moe girl whose sexuality doesn't belong to her. With Haru, for better or for worse, she owns her body and her experience. Maybe you don't get it because you have a different life experience. Thats alright, but... I'm sick of puppy-girlfriend characters whose the main protag can fuck. It makes me even wonder if you have even watched anime, lately... Haru's pretty subversive as a femme character. She actually has agency, a personality, a backstory, goals and aspirations.

She hits all the notes of what would be a male anime protag in other contexts.
 
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