bisexual-furs - My new FurAffinity Group!

[IncenseAndIron]

Hello, friends! I'm a bit new in comparison to others to FurAffinity (I have had multiple accounts in the span of... probably 3 years? But my activity on here has been on-and-off), so this might be an odd post for me to make. But, after seeing groups around on FA, I decided I wanted to make my own, and I wanted to make it about something that is very important to me.

Everyone, give a welcome to bisexual-furs! https://www.furaffinity.net/user/bisexual-furs

I realize that there are already bisexual groups around FA, but I wanted to make mine focused around the purpose of educating others, as well as creating a safe place for bisexuals and non-bisexual allies that is unabashedly inclusive of transgender and nonbinary people. My goal is to create a progressive safe space dedicated to teaching others about bisexuality and its history, combating misunderstandings and misconceptions about our identity, creating a safe place for fellow bisexuals to have fun and make friends, and pushing the fandom in the right direction toward acceptance and understanding of bisexual people.

Considering I am new, I am not sure if this group will become popular. But, what I really want is to create a positive impact on the furry fandom, and encourage more willingness to learn about what our identity really means. If the group does become popular enough, I may create a mascot, discord server, or plan fun activities like art contests for members to participate in.

If you are bisexual, an ally who isn't bisexual, or overall someone who wants to learn more about bisexual activism and history, consider joining bisexual-furs! ^_^

 

[Stray Cat Terry]

I'm perhaps a bi, or pan? Whatever I am, I still keep wondering... And since bi is one of the most well-representing term on myself, I'm eager to know more about the concept! OwO

 

[IncenseAndIron]

I'm perhaps a bi, or pan? Whatever I am, I still keep wondering... And since bi is one of the most well-representing term on myself, I'm eager to know more about the concept! OwO

You are very valid! A lot of people question whether bi or pan is the right term for them, because the terms have essentially the same meaning. And, questioning that is completely okay! If you are interested in learning more about bisexuality, I would recommend giving this carrd a look: https://bi-sexual.carrd.co/ It contains a lot of useful information for both people who are bisexual, and people who are questioning if they might be bisexual!

In the end, it is all up to you whether or not you think bisexual is the right term for you. And whether you are bi or not, you are still always welcome to join bisexual-furs! The group is welcome to bisexuals and non-bisexuals alike. :]

 

[Ziggy Schlacht]

You should update your description. To put the icon, it's :bisexual-furs: because :bisexualfurs: gets you the main group. The difference is a hyphen.

 

[IncenseAndIron]

You should update your description. To put the icon, it's :bisexual-furs: because :bisexualfurs: gets you the main group. The difference is a hyphen.

Thanks for letting me know! That was an oversight on my part.

 

[JacobFloofWoof]

You are very valid! A lot of people question whether bi or pan is the right term for them, because the terms have essentially the same meaning. And, questioning that is completely okay! If you are interested in learning more about bisexuality, I would recommend giving this carrd a look: https://bi-sexual.carrd.co/ It contains a lot of useful information for both people who are bisexual, and people who are questioning if they might be bisexual!

In the end, it is all up to you whether or not you think bisexual is the right term for you. And whether you are bi or not, you are still always welcome to join bisexual-furs! The group is welcome to bisexuals and non-bisexuals alike. :]

I don't understand, if bi means "two" or "both" to some people (which indeed means "two"), isn't that equally as valid, and how do you define people who are attracted to only male and female? On the site, it stated, as quoted directly, "bi doesn’t mean two, and any statements that include the word ‘two’ to define bisexuality are ahistorical, biphobic, and were made up recently.".

This seems rather exclusionary and falsifying to people who are only attracted to not more than two gender binaries with the intention to change a narrative on sexual orientation corresponding to gender identity, when "pansexuality" is technically the correct term for the point the author of the website is trying to make. Even if bisexuality falls into a gray area on the kinsey scale, telling people they are wrong, cruel, or insulting their intelligence who use it as a term for being attracted to both genders, is well, trying to falsify the validity of the term for the people who apply it to themselves in the traditional sense, and is essentially trying to "include to exclude", so to speak.


How would you personally classify someone who is attracted strictly to male and female binaries? If you answer with something else, then you would technically be invalidating those individuals.

 

[TyraWadman]

I don't understand, if bi means "two" or "both" to some people (which indeed means "two"), isn't that equally as valid, and how do you define people who are attracted to only male and female? On the site, it stated, as quoted directly, "bi doesn’t mean two, and any statements that include the word ‘two’ to define bisexuality are ahistorical, biphobic, and were made up recently.".

This seems rather exclusionary and falsifying to people who are only attracted to not more than two gender binaries with the intention to change a narrative on sexual orientation corresponding to gender identity, when "pansexuality" is technically the correct term for the point the author of the website is trying to make. Even if bisexuality falls into a gray area on the kinsey scale, telling people they are wrong, cruel, or insulting their intelligence who use it as a term for being attracted to both genders, is well, trying to falsify the validity of the term for the people who apply it to themselves in the traditional sense, and is essentially trying to "include to exclude", so to speak.


How would you personally classify someone who is attracted strictly to male and female binaries? If you answer with something else, then you would technically be invalidating those individuals.

"Each bisexual can determine for themselves what their bisexuality means to them" is one of the first lines and is on point. At least, when it comes to sexualities and genders, a lot of people seem to have their own interpretation and preferences. As long as the word isn't being grossly misused or used in a way that misleads someone, I see no issue with it.
---

I think this information is wonderful, OP. I think it really brings things into perspective and would help many to understand why you see things the way you do!

 

[JacobFloofWoof]

"Each bisexual can determine for themselves what their bisexuality means to them" is one of the first lines and is on point. At least, when it comes to sexualities and genders, a lot of people seem to have their own interpretation and preferences. As long as the word isn't being grossly misused or used in a way that misleads someone, I see no issue with it.
---

I think this information is wonderful, OP. I think it really brings things into perspective and would help many to understand why you see things the way you do!

The post is rather contradicting, since it wasn't referring to anybody specific, but with a rather blunt statement (not an opinion) on how "bisexuality" is used or should be used as a term.

 

[quoting_mungo]

I don't understand, if bi means "two" or "both" to some people (which indeed means "two"), isn't that equally as valid, and how do you define people who are attracted to only male and female? On the site, it stated, as quoted directly, "bi doesn’t mean two, and any statements that include the word ‘two’ to define bisexuality are ahistorical, biphobic, and were made up recently.".

You have to read that sentence in context. Of course, linguistically, “bi” means two. By “bi doesn’t mean two” the author is most likely trying to convey that the “bi-“ in “bisexual” isn’t inherently about twos. The definitions that have cropped up in recent years which center “twoness,” arguably even when worded as “two or more,” are biphobic and don’t jive with the history of the term. That discourse didn’t (to my knowledge, at least) exist twenty-ish years ago when I started identifying as bi.

Similarly, saying that pansexuality is the “correct” term for attraction that includes any gender rather than a specified subset is biphobic/bi erasure. Not suggesting that you are intentionally engaging in biphobia, just letting you know that that’s where it lands. My bisexuality fits pretty neatly into the definition many people use for pansexuality. I will readily acknowledge this. I identify as bi because that’s what I feel most comfortable with, no doubt influenced by when I came of age to start thinking about sexuality and what language was used then, at least in every circle I was ever exposed to during those years.

You can still be attracted to a subset of genders and identify as bi. If you are only attracted to people who neatly fit into a gender binary, that’s what your personal sexuality is, and (potentially) what your identity as bisexual means to you; the important point is that your sexuality does not and cannot define anyone else’s.

While under any other circumstances would not recommend making a comparison between sexuality and being part of fandom, in this case I think there’s a lot of similarity to how many different ways there are to be furry. No one is entitled to tell you that you’re doing furry wrong or should actually identify as an anthropomorphism enthusiast instead because you don’t meet their personal definition. Reality is, we’re all individuals, and all our sexualities will look subtly (or not so subtly) different.

 

[Stray Cat Terry]

Might be out of context, but I keep questioning whether such sexualities refer to A) the target types one can accept to prefer, or B) the target types one is more attracted to, despite whether one can accept to prefer the types other than the particular types.

Case A may render me a pansexual, and case B renders me a bisexual. I'm not sure which one is right.. perhaps the latter?
Perhaps both are wrong, hence I keep wondering. But if any above is right, and regarding that being 'preferences', one may happen to switch between sexualities if any changes happen to one's mind/heart.

Uhh... this is confusing but interesting >p<
At least I feel no pressure as long as the surrounding people are open minded and/or welcoming UwU

 

[quoting_mungo]

Might be out of context, but I keep questioning whether such sexualities refer to A) the target types one can accept to prefer, or B) the target types one is more attracted to, despite whether one can accept to prefer the types other than the particular types.

Case A may render me a pansexual, and case B renders me a bisexual. I'm not sure which one is right.. perhaps the latter?
Perhaps both are wrong, hence I keep wondering. But if any above is right, and regarding that being 'preferences', one may happen to switch between sexualities if any changes happen to one's mind/heart.

Uhh... this is confusing but interesting >p<
At least I feel no pressure as long as the surrounding people are open minded and/or welcoming UwU

At the end of the day, the only one who can decide what label fits you better is you. Labels aren’t going to be perfect/exhaustive, because humans aren’t made on an assembly line. Sexuality is messy, with lots of fuzzy edges. Like, there’s straight people who met That One Person of the same sex that they end up being into, despite not being attracted to the same sex in general. There’s straight/gay people who get in a relationship with someone who later figures out they’re trans*, and stay in that relationship post-transition because their partner is still the same person. I don’t think it’s fair to say these people must redefine themselves as bi (or any other label). Sexuality is always going to be about picking the label you feel fits you best, and wearing it as long as you still feel that’s the case.

Choosing how to label your sexuality is a choice you can revisit as often as you feel you need to. (Note that I talk about choosing your label, not choosing who you’re actually attracted to.)

 

[Stray Cat Terry]

At the end of the day, the only one who can decide what label fits you better is you. Labels aren’t going to be perfect/exhaustive, because humans aren’t made on an assembly line. Sexuality is messy, with lots of fuzzy edges. Like, there’s straight people who met That One Person of the same sex that they end up being into, despite not being attracted to the same sex in general. There’s straight/gay people who get in a relationship with someone who later figures out they’re trans*, and stay in that relationship post-transition because their partner is still the same person. I don’t think it’s fair to say these people must redefine themselves as bi (or any other label). Sexuality is always going to be about picking the label you feel fits you best, and wearing it as long as you still feel that’s the case.

Choosing how to label your sexuality is a choice you can revisit as often as you feel you need to. (Note that I talk about choosing your label, not choosing who you’re actually attracted to.)

Thankies for the descriptions, dear Mungo! =UwU=
The world needs more people like you... So that the people like me won't have to concern per people's perspectives.. UnU

 

[Ziggy Schlacht]

If it helps, I've always seen the distinction as:

Bisexuality is an attraction to form (e.g. both masculine and feminine) whereas Pansexuality is attraction to personality (rendering the form moot). That doesn't mean a bisexual person would bang anything hot or that looks have no bearing for a pansexual person, it's just the distinction of which is the primary driver in attraction.

That being said, I chose "bisexual" as a descriptor before I'd heard of pansexual (it is, as best I can tell, a new term). After hearing pansexual defined a few ways, I found the above distinction as about the only descriptor that made them actually distinct.

I then picked the one every understood and had the nicer flag.

 

[IncenseAndIron]

I don't understand, if bi means "two" or "both" to some people (which indeed means "two"), isn't that equally as valid, and how do you define people who are attracted to only male and female? On the site, it stated, as quoted directly, "bi doesn’t mean two, and any statements that include the word ‘two’ to define bisexuality are ahistorical, biphobic, and were made up recently.".

This seems rather exclusionary and falsifying to people who are only attracted to not more than two gender binaries with the intention to change a narrative on sexual orientation corresponding to gender identity, when "pansexuality" is technically the correct term for the point the author of the website is trying to make. Even if bisexuality falls into a gray area on the kinsey scale, telling people they are wrong, cruel, or insulting their intelligence who use it as a term for being attracted to both genders, is well, trying to falsify the validity of the term for the people who apply it to themselves in the traditional sense, and is essentially trying to "include to exclude", so to speak.


How would you personally classify someone who is attracted strictly to male and female binaries? If you answer with something else, then you would technically be invalidating those individuals.

The post is rather contradicting, since it wasn't referring to anybody specific, but with a rather blunt statement (not an opinion) on how "bisexuality" is used or should be used as a term.

I am going to politely ask you to stop. I did not create this post for the purpose of starting discourse. I responded to Stray Cat Terry with the purpose of guiding them in the right direction, since they said they were curious about bisexuality. In fact, this post's entire point was to promote my new group, not to engage in discourse.

This is not the place to be starting a debate. If you want that, go somewhere else. I will ask that you do not do this here. Thank you.

 

[IncenseAndIron]

"Each bisexual can determine for themselves what their bisexuality means to them" is one of the first lines and is on point. At least, when it comes to sexualities and genders, a lot of people seem to have their own interpretation and preferences. As long as the word isn't being grossly misused or used in a way that misleads someone, I see no issue with it.
---

I think this information is wonderful, OP. I think it really brings things into perspective and would help many to understand why you see things the way you do!

Thank you, Tyra! I am glad that I was able to provide useful information. I always rely on history and facts, and I try to present my information as kindly and helpfully as possible for those who need it. :]

 

[JacobFloofWoof]

I am going to politely ask you to stop. I did not create this post for the purpose of starting discourse. I responded to Stray Cat Terry with the purpose of guiding them in the right direction, since they said they were curious about bisexuality. In fact, this post's entire point was to promote my new group, not to engage in discourse.

This is not the place to be starting a debate. If you want that, go somewhere else. I will ask that you do not do this here. Thank you.

Heh. Whatever

 

[IncenseAndIron]

Heh. Whatever

A "sorry for invading your post with the purpose of arguing and derailing the point of the post to start discourse" would suffice.

 

[Ziggy Schlacht]

A "sorry for invading your post with the purpose of arguing and derailing the point of the post to start discourse" would suffice.

Discourse isn't the right word. The post came across as deliberately distorting the point of the group in order to justify being offended. In other words - troll bait.

 

[IncenseAndIron]

Discourse isn't the right word. The post came across as deliberately distorting the point of the group in order to justify being offended. In other words - troll bait.

Honestly, you're right. In my opinion, it just proves my point that we need more safe spaces for bisexual folk around the fandom. Non-bisexual people always want to try and invade the conversation, redefining our sexuality for us when literally nobody asked.

 

[JacobFloofWoof]

A "sorry for invading your post with the purpose of arguing and derailing the point of the post to start discourse" would suffice.

Not a chance; I did walk away, but you clearly asked for more, instead of turning the conversation back on course, you decided to bring me right back into it.

Discourse isn't the right word. The post came across as deliberately distorting the point of the group in order to justify being offended. In other words - troll bait.

It certainly was a controversial post, but I found flaws and possibly contradictions I wanted to talk about that I thought should be pointed out, especially when it's attempting to guide individuals into wanting to learn more.

Troll bait? I don't think so, not so much as this strawman reply.

Honestly, you're right. In my opinion, it just proves my point that we need more safe spaces for bisexual folk around the fandom. Non-bisexual people always want to try and invade the conversation, redefining our sexuality for us when literally nobody asked.

1. You're on a public forum. 2. A safe place for bisexual folk? You mean, general LGBT safe places aren't sufficient, as in, "bisexual folk" need additional approbation when fighting identical causes? And then you pretty much assumed what my orientation was because of a disagreement. What a way to not invalidate or exclude others for not fitting your definition of "bisexuality", and also wanting a separate safe place or community for it, away from those with a different view on the "definition", such as myself? lol

 

[IncenseAndIron]

Not a chance; I did walk away, but you clearly asked for more, instead of turning the conversation back on course, you decided to bring me right back into it.

It certainly was a controversial post, but I found flaws and possibly contradictions I wanted to talk about that I thought should be pointed out, especially when it's attempting to guide individuals into wanting to learn more.

Troll bait? I don't think so, not so much as this strawman reply.


1. You're on a public forum. 2. A safe place for bisexual folk? You mean, general LGBT safe places aren't sufficient, as in, "bisexual folk" need additional approbation when fighting identical causes? And then you pretty much assumed what my orientation was because of a disagreement. What a way to not invalidate or exclude others for not fitting your definition of "bisexuality", and also wanting a separate safe place or community for it, away from those with a different view on the "definition", such as myself? lol

Someone pointed out to you that in the source I linked, one of the first lines said "Each bisexual can determine for themselves what their bisexuality means to them". In fact, the American Institute of Bisexuality said that bisexual people are quite capable of being attracted to nonbinary people, as well as people of all gender identities, and that "bisexual" doesn't mean "attraction to two genders". Along with that, many bisexual people throughout history have defined bisexuality as not being attracted to "just two" genders. In fact, many bisexual people throughout history have defined bisexuality as “attraction regardless of gender” (from “The Pressure Cooker”, View From Another Closet (1976), “love for human beings”, and “attraction not being limited by gender”.

And keep in mind: all sexualities (not all people) are capable of being attracted to nonbinary people, as "nonbinary" is not monolithic in nature, but rather an umbrella term to encompass all gender identities beyond strictly male and female. A straight man or a lesbian is capable of being attracted to a nonbinary woman, as a straight woman or a gay man is capable of being attracted to a nonbinary man. Nonbinary men and women are nonbinary, but they are also men and women, which is why people attracted to men and women can be attracted to nonbinary men and women. Restricting nonbinary to just "a third gender" erases a lot of nonbinary identities. That being said, an individual person can decide for themselves whether or not they can find themselves attracted to a nonbinary person.

In sum, minimizing bisexuality to "just two" is completely incorrect, and erases a lot of the original members of our community.

This is why we need safe spaces; because people will start fights about our identity instead of taking the time to bisexual people about the true nature of our identity and history. This conversation is a testament to that.

Even if you don't want to listen to me, the least you could do is apologize for derailing my post, and for being rude to me when I asked you to take the discourse somewhere else. If you can do that, then we can both agree to end this with no conflict, regardless of whether we agree or not.

 

[Ziggy Schlacht]

It certainly was a controversial post, but I found flaws and possibly contradictions I wanted to talk about that I thought should be pointed out, especially when it's attempting to guide individuals into wanting to learn more.

Troll bait? I don't think so, not so much as this strawman reply.

Well, in case @IncenseAndIron drive the point home well enough:

This seems rather exclusionary and falsifying to people who are only attracted to not more than two gender binaries with the intention to change a narrative on sexual orientation corresponding to gender identity, when "pansexuality" is technically the correct term for the point the author of the website is trying to make. Even if bisexuality falls into a gray area on the kinsey scale, telling people they are wrong, cruel, or insulting their intelligence who use it as a term for being attracted to both genders, is well, trying to falsify the validity of the term for the people who apply it to themselves in the traditional sense, and is essentially trying to "include to exclude", so to speak.


How would you personally classify someone who is attracted strictly to male and female binaries? If you answer with something else, then you would technically be invalidating those individuals.

Each bisexual can determine for themselves what their bisexuality means to them

Seems to me "as bisexual." The answer is right in front of you, you put a lot of words into... not reading the OP and making bold assumptions not supported by pretty basic reading comprehension. That's what I called it troll bait, given that the answer to your question was pretty clearly spelled out, but you decided to act offended anyhow.

Edit: I do have a second point. Bisexuality doesn't actually fall in a "grey area" on the kinsey scale... It's kind of the point of the kinsey scale. The only issue with the kinsey scale is it's linear straight to gay, whereas what it's trying to measure isn't.

 

[quoting_mungo]

A straight man or a lesbian is capable of being attracted to a nonbinary woman, as a straight woman or a gay man is capable of being attracted to a nonbinary man. Nonbinary men and women are nonbinary, but they are also men and women, which is why people attracted to men and women can be attracted to nonbinary men and women. Restricting nonbinary to just "a third gender" erases a lot of nonbinary identities. That being said, an individual person can decide for themselves whether or not they can find themselves attracted to a nonbinary person.

While I don’t contest that there are people who identify as non-binary men/women, I feel like you’re undermining your point by centering that subset of enbies in your argument. Like... as a nominally female enby who hasn’t (to my knowledge/memory) been mistaken for a guy since junior high, it makes me really uncomfortable. While gender can be an important factor in attraction, at the end of the day you’re not going to know the gender of that cute person a few bar stools over until you talk to them (or someone else who knows them). Whether you’re attracted to androgyny or more “traditional” gender presentation is not a reflection of how straight/gay or bi you are, after all.

 

[IncenseAndIron]

While I don’t contest that there are people who identify as non-binary men/women, I feel like you’re undermining your point by centering that subset of enbies in your argument. Like... as a nominally female enby who hasn’t (to my knowledge/memory) been mistaken for a guy since junior high, it makes me really uncomfortable. While gender can be an important factor in attraction, at the end of the day you’re not going to know the gender of that cute person a few bar stools over until you talk to them (or someone else who knows them). Whether you’re attracted to androgyny or more “traditional” gender presentation is not a reflection of how straight/gay or bi you are, after all.

That is a very important point that I neglected to mention, thank you for pointing that out. You are definitely right; any sexuality is capable of being attracted to anyone of any nonbinary gender identity, including bigender, agender, and genderfluid people, for example. You can't really look at someone and determine whether or not they're nonbinary, then determine whether or not they're attractive based on that fact.
I do apologize for missing that crucial point; but also, thank you for pointing that out. It helps a lot to have someone who's nonbinary weigh in and share their thoughts in the discussion, as that point of view definitely matters when we are discussing issues that include nonbinary people.

 

[Ember ;3]

Hello, friends! I'm a bit new in comparison to others to FurAffinity (I have had multiple accounts in the span of... probably 3 years? But my activity on here has been on-and-off), so this might be an odd post for me to make. But, after seeing groups around on FA, I decided I wanted to make my own, and I wanted to make it about something that is very important to me.

Everyone, give a welcome to bisexual-furs! https://www.furaffinity.net/user/bisexual-furs

I realize that there are already bisexual groups around FA, but I wanted to make mine focused around the purpose of educating others, as well as creating a safe place for bisexuals and non-bisexual allies that is unabashedly inclusive of transgender and nonbinary people. My goal is to create a progressive safe space dedicated to teaching others about bisexuality and its history, combating misunderstandings and misconceptions about our identity, creating a safe place for fellow bisexuals to have fun and make friends, and pushing the fandom in the right direction toward acceptance and understanding of bisexual people.

Considering I am new, I am not sure if this group will become popular. But, what I really want is to create a positive impact on the furry fandom, and encourage more willingness to learn about what our identity really means. If the group does become popular enough, I may create a mascot, discord server, or plan fun activities like art contests for members to participate in.

If you are bisexual, an ally who isn't bisexual, or overall someone who wants to learn more about bisexual activism and history, consider joining bisexual-furs! ^_^

I'm not sure what i am yet.....