Comic Critique Needed! (54 pages, ages 16+ only) SWF

[PlusThirtyOne]

First draft! (YAY!)
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'iN THE LOOP' is a comic project that's gone through many updates, changes and revisions and i'm sure there might be a few more. With that in mind, i'm open to new ideas. Nothing on these pages is set in stone. Everything is subject to change. After the first couple of chapters are out of the way, the series format will devolve into short 5-6 panel cartoons with occasional multi-page stories. These first few pages or so are here to set a foundation for future shorts. i started this story over 10 years ago and several panels and pages were drawn roughly that long ago. Some parts have aged better than others so please forgive me if the art changes in quality from time to time.

STORY
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Kara is a self-titled "Nerd".
She's an introverted, strangely quiet girl "irl" but near the polar opposite online. After saving up and moving far from her childhood rural home to the city, she starts a new life to reinvent herself. Without the worry of working full time, she lively posts her stories and shares her dreams with the world through video streams and hosts a series of self made videos. She reviewing movies, games, news and shares opinions. Six months and a hundred or so articles later, she's gone from a "nobody" to "somebody" in the world of online video blogging, built on an extended family of viewers and followers who watch her weekly blogs and read her daily thoughts. Kara is happy to share nearly everything about her daily life and opinions online.

-everything except her romantic life.
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After her video blog starts gaining traction, she's contacted by a fan; a photographer and editor who happens to work for a growing internet culture magazine. While looking to expand their offices and open a branch in Kara's new home city, it turns out that her new downtown home is located close by several potential office locations. What better way to pitch a possible partnership than to host and tour around a company employee? With possibilities abound, Kara's future as a full-time journalist may just take off! internet stardom, sponsorship deals and cross-network promotions are just the beginning! Everything is looking great!

-until her romantic practice comes into question.
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Highlight for story spoiler :Kara is polyamorous; (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polyamory) meaning she has multiple loving relationships. Despite that bit, the focus of the story isn't on the sexual aspect, but the social and nerdy side. i've always wondered (and feared) what it'd be like to be internet famous. Kara accidentally becomes famous over a short period of time and her life is flipped upside down while she struggles to keep her private life private and public life (as well as he girlfriends) in check. The first 60 pages deal with her first initial struggle; exposing herself to her company insider! The first few pages are pretty predictable but i plan on taking the story in some interesting directions later on. (end spoilers)

'iN THE LOOP' is a slice-of-life romantic comedy drama with a dash of nerdy humor in later pages. Videogames, movies, pop-culture and tech all play a role in the story and setting, LGBT culture notwithstanding. Chances are if you're on a computer reading it, there's something in it for you. The comic gets a little lewd (18+) from time to time later on but it isn't just for show. Each character has his/her own personality that will show through the comic. Some characters are crass and some are sweet. Some are sexy and others quite prudish. 'iN THE LOOP' is meant to be far more than "porn with a story". in fact, i fully intend to make layer masks and censored options for readers less inclined and most 18+ pages and side stories will be completely optional.

PAGES


00 01 02 03 04 05
06 07 08 09 10 11
12 13 14 15 16 17
18 19 20 21 22 23
24 25 26 27 28 29
30 31 32 33 34 35
36 37 38 39 40 41
42 43 44 45 46 47
48 49 50 51 52 53
54 55 56 57 58 59
60 61 62 63 64 65

RED page links are intentionally left out for now!
NSFW pages coming soon. Please see explanation below.

WHAT i NEED FROM YOU
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The more you can critique, the better. As to be expected, there may be typos and grammar errors so i need full coverage. i need details, ideas, corrections, art critique, writing suggestions, etc. i need feedback on the art, dialogue change suggestions, story consistency, plot hole filling, alternate scene ideas, etc. Feel free to ask any questions and make any suggestions you'd like. i want to create a slice-of-life comic with wide appeal but i don't want to stray too far from the original idea. Be honest, be brutal but please be helpful. i'm not seeking praise, i'm looking for ideas. i want to know what i'm doing right and what i need to fix. As soon as i get some feedback and make some changes, i'll start posting the comic on FA. There's still a lot more to come but i need to hammer out the prologue first. Thank you all for helping me with this, especially those who were asked via PM. i got a lot to work done and fixed a few goofs since you might have read it last. (Big edits may come later)

UPDATE LOG

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July 26th, 2015 - Fixed a few typos (Thanks, Lomberdia!)
July 27th, 2015 - Added a "cover" page 00 (Thanks, Unsilenced!), Fixed page 58 (Thanks, mapdark!)

FAQ
(please read the comic first
before reading any further)

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Why are there missing pages?
Not every page is necessary to get the full scope of the story. Some pages were left out either due to further editing or they contain NSFW details. i'm leaving those pages out of the first draft. Not everyone needs (or wants) to see that stuff. These pages will eventually be shown after some helpful critique and i post them on FA. Don't worry. They aren't important...yet. They will be later but not now.

Why do you draw X like that? You need to update your style!
While i greatly appreciate the input, please keep in mind that i like this "style". i can draw in several different "styles" and mediums outside of this but i like the "style" i've established here, specifically for this comic. i like manga/kemono! Yes, there's still plenty of room for improvement and yes, i'm ready and willing to redraw some panels but i have no plans on switching up my "style". if you have tips and thoughts on body anatomy or think a character pose looks "off", please tell me. i'm open to that! -But please don't complain about "anime hair" and "big eyes".

What's with the alternating BW and color pages?
Most pages will follow a pattern of 4 BW and then 2 color pages. This is intentional to keep the flow of the cartoon, allowing me to put out more frequent updates as well as highlight- *AHEM* ...special moments in color. The first two gaps of missing color pages are for character profiles and their personal information. These pages get quite personal so they will be flagged NSFW.

What changes will be made between this draft and the final version?
Anything from character motivation to setting to dialogue. You'll just have to wait and see. if there's something you like to see changed, let me know! (...and i mean anything)

Wha-? What's going on? What scenes happen in what order!?
The title of the comic, 'in the Loop' is not only a reference to a poly loop. i wanted to tell these stories in a circular arc. The end of each short story should wrap back around, full circle. i've written more story arcs that "loop" around similarly. Later on, once the renovations are done on Abbie's building, new tenants move in and inquire about the other residents. Each character has a story to tell and they're told in such a way that they all wrap up back where the story started. Stories about how they met, established their relationships, jobs, etc. but that's just the long form stories. Shorts and single/dual page stories probably won't follow this pattern.

Why are the images so small? i can't read them!
imgur.com automatically resizes most large images to fit your desktop resolution. if you're having trouble reading the text, just click the "view full size" button in the top right corner. Don't worry, all pages for the comic are done at 2620x4500 pixel res. FA's max 1280 resolution still looks readable as far as i can tell.

What's in it for me? (the reader)
i plan to credit those who critique. i also have open spaces for contributors' characters (fursonae and the like) to take cameo roles, background faces and the like just for fun. While i can't promise anybody that their character(s) will make appearances in the comic, i'll try to find ways to thank anyone who throws in their two cents. The more you critique and help, the more likely you are to be written in. (but not as main characters)

i look forward to all your helpful critique! <3
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[WolfNightV4X1]

Wow...this is actually really cool, I knew you were an artist but I didnt know you had your own comic in the works. Color me impressed, +31.

I really like your art style, it's pretty cute ^_^ The concept of the looping is really cool, too. Seems like it'd be hard to pull off though, I don't know. The characters are really cute, too. I kinda wish I'd read through it entirely but I skimmed the majority of the pages and got some of the story. I do really love the colored pages as well.

I wouldn't know what to critique you, my qualm with this comic is there seems to be tons of dialogue bubbles everywhere and lots of dialogue, maybe it might be necessary but it seems a bit much. Perhaps condense and organize it a little, for the most part it was readable, though! It flowed smoothly.

But yeah, I think I'd be inclined to read the final product, best of luck!

 

[PlusThirtyOne]

Thanks! it feels good to get some feedback.
i sort of regret posting this in the critique section because it feels like readers might feel obligated to post ONLY critique. Honestly, i'm open to ANY kind of feedback. Even just a, "Yep. i read it!".

 

[Marier Villarreal]

I read some pages in it. I really liked it! I love your art style ^^

 

[PlusThirtyOne]

I read some pages in it. I really liked it! I love your art style ^^

Thanks! Feedback is very much appreciated. Let me know what you think and how i'm doing.

 

[mapdark]

Well, I'll be very honest, I really think you should improve on facial structure and expressions.

I find the deviant art animuh style faces to be very bland and limitating. Your range of emotions seems to be very narrow. The fact is that whatever species those guys are, they couldn't be identified. You can't base animal heads off of human ones.

If highly suggest studying animal head shapes from REAL references so they you can give your characters a bit more variety and unique looks.

You might also want to practice body anatomy and motion drawings because some of the poses and actions you depict look very awkward. That character running in the last page is a good example of this. The way she is passed in this looks like she'd tip over if someone pressed their fingers against her back.

I mean this isn't BAAAAD or unsalvageable. But it definitely needs to be polished.

 

[PlusThirtyOne]

Well, I'll be very honest, I really think you should improve on facial structure and expressions.

I find the deviant art animuh style faces to be very bland and limitating. Your range of emotions seems to be very narrow. The fact is that whatever species those guys are, they couldn't be identified. You can't base animal heads off of human ones.

If highly suggest studying animal head shapes from REAL references so they you can give your characters a bit more variety and unique looks.

You might also want to practice body anatomy and motion drawings because some of the poses and actions you depict look very awkward. That character running in the last page is a good example of this. The way she is passed in this looks like she'd tip over if someone pressed their fingers against her back.

I mean this isn't BAAAAD or unsalvageable. But it definitely needs to be polished.

Admittedly, my face style is subtle. Yes, they are based on manga style faces but i like it that way. Facial structure is meant to be sort of vague and not highly detailed. i don't typically draw in muzzle detail; instead i just offset the nose to suggest their nose comes out further than a people shnoz. i give just enough structure without drawing a full blown animal face. it's a little "limiting" but i don't necessarily like characters with pronounced animal features. -At least not mine. i appreciate the feedback though.
As for Kara's running, i drew up several (6, i think) running sketches i could easily animate into a animated cycle. i chose that one because it's clear she's moving forward quickly. She's just stepped off one foot and is moving the other forward. She also isn't sprinting at full speed. She's kinda doing that inside no-running-in-the-halls kind of run we all did (do?) in school when you're late for class. She's in a public airport and -as we discovered- trying to sneak into an area of the airport she isn't supposed to be in. i also tested a sketch of her speed-walking but it didn't look right either. This was the best kind of run i could come up with that didn't look too out of place. Kinda how when you take two running steps, then slow to a quickly paced walk and then start running again.

...but not quite as frantic as this.
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Thanks for the input. i do plan on making some minor changes before i post the comic on FA. Some of those changes are being made as we speak. What other anatomical goofs did you find?

 

[mapdark]

Admittedly, my face style is subtle. Yes, they are based on manga style faces but i like it that way. Facial structure is meant to be sort of vague and not highly detailed. i don't typically draw in muzzle detail; instead i just offset the nose to suggest their nose comes out further than a people shnoz. i give just enough structure without drawing a full blown animal face. it's a little "limiting" but i don't necessarily like characters with pronounced animal features. -At least not mine. i appreciate the feedback though.
As for Kara's running, i drew up several (6, i think) running sketches i could easily animate into a animated cycle. i chose that one because it's clear she's moving forward quickly. She's just stepped off one foot and is moving the other forward. She also isn't sprinting at full speed. She's kinda doing that inside no-running-in-the-halls kind of run we all did (do?) in school when you're late for class. She's in a public airport and -as we discovered- trying to sneak into an area of the airport she isn't supposed to be in. i also tested a sketch of her speed-walking but it didn't look right either. This was the best kind of run i could come up with that didn't look too out of place. Kinda how when you take two running steps, then slow to a quickly paced walk and then start running again.

...but not quite as frantic as this.
​

Thanks for the input. i do plan on making some minor changes before i post the comic on FA. Some of those changes are being made as we speak. What other anatomical goofs did you find?

Look , if you're going to ask for critique , you can't go and make an excuse for every single one of the points other people will bring up.

I tried to be as nice as I could while giving you my critique of your content. The last thing I needed to hear was "it's muh style" excuse for why you draw characters a certain way.
So congratulations , you triggered my less-than-nice-critique-mode.

When it comes to your character jogging through the airport :

She's not doing Calesthenics , her foot doesn't need to raise so high up behind her .
That's the kind of thing I was talking about . YOU NEED to learn how people move because your handle on human movement is REALLY off in some of those pages.
I caught myself thinking "real people don't move that way WTF" several times.


As for the anime face thing.
You might call it "on purpose" but I call it "lazy and visually unappealing".

At the very least , that's what most people over 15 will think. it's NOT NORMAL to see eyes and mouths showing from a front angle when the character is shown at a 3/4 angle.
You'Re not trying to emulate Picasso , you're doing a comic here.

Not only would trying to properly visualise your characters in 3D look nicer , but it would also give you access to MUCH MORE RANGE when it comes to emotions and character variety.

So yeah , if you care even just one iota about improving , which I really doubt based on your response , drop the damn anime hair explosions , the sidemouths and the ever-front-facing eyes of doom and try to learn what an animal head is actually shaped like and MAYBE people will start considering your stuff a bit more.


As for me , this is my last intervention on this thread , because seriously I don'T have time for people who don't give a shit about getting out of their comfort zone.

 

[PlusThirtyOne]

Look , if you're going to ask for critique , you can't go and make an excuse for every single one of the points other people will bring up.

I tried to be as nice as I could while giving you my critique of your content. The last thing I needed to hear was "it's muh style" excuse for why you draw characters a certain way.
So congratulations , you triggered my less-than-nice-critique-mode.

When it comes to your character jogging through the airport :

She's not doing Calesthenics , her foot doesn't need to raise so high up behind her .
That's the kind of thing I was talking about . YOU NEED to learn how people move because your handle on human movement is REALLY off in some of those pages.
I caught myself thinking "real people don't move that way WTF" several times.


As for the anime face thing.
You might call it "on purpose" but I call it "lazy and visually unappealing".

At the very least , that's what most people over 15 will think. it's NOT NORMAL to see eyes and mouths showing from a front angle when the character is shown at a 3/4 angle.
You'Re not trying to emulate Picasso , you're doing a comic here.

Not only would trying to properly visualise your characters in 3D look nicer , but it would also give you access to MUCH MORE RANGE when it comes to emotions and character variety.

So yeah , if you care even just one iota about improving , which I really doubt based on your response , drop the damn anime hair explosions , the sidemouths and the ever-front-facing eyes of doom and try to learn what an animal head is actually shaped like and MAYBE people will start considering your stuff a bit more.


As for me , this is my last intervention on this thread , because seriously I don'T have time for people who don't give a shit about getting out of their comfort zone.

i'm sorry you're so burned out on animu and sonic OCs on DeviantART, but that's not what i was getting at. :V
Leaving critique can get a little frustrating when artists get defensive. i've been there. My "style", for lack of a better word, is meant to be simplistic. Sure it's "not normal" to see facial elements at that angle. it's "not normal" to see with people with furry tails and animal ears either. i don't want to mold realistic dimensions for furry heads not because i can't or because i don't want to grow in my art. Clearly i do want to grow but i'm simply not applying that kind of shape to my comics. if that style doesn't appeal to you, that's fine. i happen to like that look. By explaining my reasons for this or that, it's not an "excuse" because i clearly had follow-up questions. Why would i ask for elaborations if i was just going to waive your feedback? Maybe i'm asking too much but i was hoping to open a dialogue with you; a two way conversation. Good critique usually goes something like this:

You like my soup recipe?

Maybe add a little milk to make it creamier.
​

i'm lactose intolerant. Do you have any other ideas?

Oh, okay. Try coconut milk instead.
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Awww, i'm fresh out.

Got any flour? Mix some of that in to thicken it up.
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Okay, i'll try that. Thanks!

-but it shouldn't end like this.
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if you're not going to make soup the way i like it, i quit!
​

You see? There might be some method to the madness. :V You're making a lot of assumptions. That being said, i agree with your suggestion regarding the running frame. i'll tweak that a bit because your edit looks waaaaaay better. i see what you mean now. i was explaining my reasoning behind the pose because i was hoping you'd reply with something a little more constructive; and you did, thank you. if you don't want to or don't have the time to have a back'n'forth about the project, that's fine; just leave the thread or politely decline. if you're going to mock me, make assumptions and slam the door on the whole conversation, i'm not really in the market for that kind of input. Again, i thank you for your feedback.

 

[BerryBubbleBlast]

It's a nice comic you have here, albeit a bit confusing in a few pages to follow who says what and when with speech bubbles everywhere. Page 44 comes in mind. Mind you, most pages are fine to read so it's not like I experience this with every page. I guess it might be a mix between the bubbles intersecting between different frames and there just being an unusually large amount of them on screen at once. This kinda makes it harder to see a clear order how to read them, though eventually I figured it out.

I have another thing I've noticed with the characters I'm wondering about. Normally whenever any character speaks their mouths always look either happy or uncertain. Occasionally they look different, but I would love to see it more frequently. Now, if that's a decision you've taken to make your characters always seem happy, then I can't say you have to change it. However I think the comic would be a bit more visually appealing if you varied how the mouth looks even so slightly. That way you could convey some more subtle feelings than "just happy or uncertain", like you did in page 49, top image.

One more thing I'm curious about is your opinion is on pages with few, large images compared to pages with many smaller images, all boxed in like a storage shelf. I can't claim I have any experience with what would look better or not, but I would like to know what your reasoning between them is, what made you decide on one medium more than the other. Big images lets you display more details while small images lets you display more scenes.


These are the things I can think of right now. This is a nice comic and I would like to see more of it. I hope my feedback is of help!

 

[PlusThirtyOne]

I hope my feedback is of help!

EXTREMELY helpful in fact! Thanks!
Yes, i do plan on redoing some pages and yes, i will be playing with mouths a little more. You're right about the happy expression though. i want my characters to be happy and playful with each other so they tend to smile a lot but, yes, i can see how that'd get old after a while. i tried to switch it up a few times. Do you have any suggestions for specific changes? Any suggestions for new mouths on particular panels/pages?
As for the panel sizes, you might have noticed the large size panels are mostly done on full color pages. Those color pages were done to emphasize detail and show big moments. Admittedly i do have trouble trying to cram story and scenes together in limited space so there are some pages with far more bits crammed in than others. The other challenge is appropriate "flow". Some scenes and pages take longer to read with actions that are longer and drawn out. Others move quickly with limited dialogue. Rather than run with one uniform structure, i decided to change flow between pages to correspond with the action and dialogue but i think i may have over done it once or twice. What do you think?

 

[BerryBubbleBlast]

I'm glad they were of use! Hopefully they'll continue to be helpful even now.

I can try to give a few suggestions on some pages which I believe could look better. I don't think I can do too many however as then I'd be getting a bit close at asking you to change your style, something I do not wish to unintentionally make it look like I'm doing. That said, here's a few pages you could change:

On page 7 at the top two images, you could make Rosie seem surprised in the first frame and then even more surprised in the second, for example by making her mouth even bigger in the second frame. Or maybe smaller in the first frame even.

On page 35 ... I don't really know exactly what would work better there. Here we come to the point where everyone seem to smile equally much which isn't wrong in itself. It's just that I would've liked to see some, if any subtle variation at all between them just so I can tell their smiles apart. Maybe something like slightly different size of their mouth compared to how much they say or such. Though what Kara does in the two lower frames looks great; still happy, yet a tiny bit of embarrasment present in the smile.

On page 44 where Kara and Abbie are hugging, you could change their smiles to a more suggestive smile, especially considering that they're saying to each other at the moment.


I couldn't think of many more than those right now. Ok, maybe a couple more, but that would've been the same argument I used for 35 ... not even sure about that either actually. Despire me saying all this, there were still plenty of pages where you did have some variation, where said variation added to the mood and feeling of the character. So there is great potential here.


About page structures there's everything and nothing to be said about such, and knowing which works best is kinda something you'll just have to try out and see which works best for your story. Though if you feel there's just too many dialogues in one scene, would it be feasible to actually split that page in two? You could then try to match up the flow of the story in a different way, and maybe even add something else which you couldn't before. Granted this does mean one extra page for you to draw and one extra page for us to read. However as a reader I'd welcome any additional pages which add more to the story, but we can't just think of what the readers want in this as you still have to actually take time and effort to draw said pages.

Not sure what else could be done with the pages though. Maybe something in the line with the quote "sometimes less is more", as in simply just decreasing the text here and there. Perhaps a bit counterintuitive in most parts, yet it might matter somewhere.


Now this is just a wild and crazy suggestion I have here which is actually far outside both your style, setting and flow, so feel free to disregard it completely. What if you, instead of how the comic is built right now, only have one or two images per page without any dialogue bubbles in it. Instead you have text beneath the image with the dialogues between the characters, plus a little extra with what they're doing and how they're experiencing the situation. Kinda like a story. Or rather very short stories as to be quick to read between pages. That way you can get a completely different flow compared to before.

As I mentioned if this isn't your cup of tea, then you don't need to explain why it wouldn't work at all (unless you want). I just wanted to throw the idea out.


... dang, I wrote quite a lot here. I hope I'm not intimidating you with all this feedback as I guess I can get a bit carried away when when I write stuff sometimes. Hope this helps nevertheless!

 

[Maugryph]

The comic is coming along very nicely, I haven't been able to read all of it so I won't talk about the story.
While I like you characters they all suffer from "only six faces'. Try to slightly add some features beyond hair and clothing that would make the characters look distinct so you can tell who it is who merely by outline.
My only major issue I have is your blatant use of photos for most of the backgrounds. It doesn't match your style at all, looks rather amateurish, and is very distracting. Having such a mash-up takes you out of the world. Either make your own backgrounds or trace the photos so they at least 'fit' into the scene. Simply using 'stamp' and 'cutout' filters isn't enough.

Keep going, it has great promise.

 

[PlusThirtyOne]

Yeah the backgrounds were only placeholders at first but they grew on me. They aren't all Google image search results though! The majority of them are Photoshopped recompositions of stock imagery and my own photography. The internal train shot was composed from 3 photos, the external train shots are all made up of 6+ heavily modified and recomposed photos and all of the living areas are made up of Photoshopped bits and bobs i constructed together.
-And then ran a filter over. *sigh*
There's a new page i hope to finish up in the next few days that has a completely original background in it. it isn't drawn in the same "style" as the characters but it's 90% hand made; the only exception being a poster on the wall. i was actually kinda relieved that nobody mentioned the backgrounds...up until now. i was worried that somebody would point them out but i really like how they look; at least the new ones i'm putting together. i'm making a point to AT LEAST outline foreground objects, furniture and props to "blend" everything together. Many of the backgrounds were after-thoughts and stand-ins at the start but, like i said, they grew on me so i kept 'em.

Thanks for the input! i'm currently addressing the face expression issue. Look forward to a massive multi-page overhaul!

 

[Erzyal]

I actually loved it. The story was interesting, I really liked all the characters, I laughed out loud over the fruit based technology joke, and I thought the whole thing was drawn very well.

My only real concern was the feet. I don't know if it is because you have difficulty drawing them or if it was intentional but the powerpuff girl feet bugged me.

 

[PlusThirtyOne]

Actually, yes, they ARE PowerPuff feet! :V
i used to draw toes but i much prefer the simple pokey feet. it's cute, i think. You might notice that on page 3, Kara has (DUN DUN DUNNN!) drawn toes, or at least more detailed feet. That page/panel was drawn back when i drew toes. i don't anymore. *shrug*