Confessions thread

[Evan of Phrygia]

Welcome to being an anything creative or fulfilling

.

 

[BadRoy]

I won't even read a story on FA unless it has a thumbnail.

If you're going to go to the effort of writing something as least give it a 'cover.' And an informative description while you're at it.

 

[Ariosto]

I confess that I think love is great, and also silly, but mostly great. I'm very glad to have seen and experienced disappointments and good times in it, and I feel like I've lived a little more as a result.

 

[Sarcastic Coffeecup]

I have this silly shark plushie my brother bought me before for liking those B-movies about sharks.

I sometimes take that shark, don my helmet and start playing it like an air guitar while headbanging and playing metal music too loud.

 

[PlusThirtyOne]

...playing metal music too loud.

Not possible. All metal should be played at full volume.
Can a woman be too beautiful? Can a game be too much fun? Can a Quentin Tarantino film be too long? The answer to all of these as "NO". All caps, bolded, underlined and italicized.

 

[Luki]

I confess I enjoy game soundtracks a bit too much.

I feel they're so underrated :<

 

[Sarcastic Coffeecup]

I confess I enjoy game soundtracks a bit too much.

I feel they're so underrated :<

Agreed. I think videogame OSTs are far better than current pop music and way too underrated.

 

[Evan of Phrygia]

They definitely don't get enough credit in my opinion. They're also some of the proggiest music out there, and it's really quite intelligent design.

 

[Ayattar]

Agreed. I think videogame OSTs are far better than current pop music and way too underrated.

It isn't because OSTs are great. It's because pop music is shit.
Most of the OSTs don't work as a standalone products. They're great for making a background, but not as a main dish.

 

[Evan of Phrygia]

Most of the OSTs don't work as a standalone products. They're great for making a background, but not as a main dish.

Due to the intention, sometimes. But the reason that is so is because they adjust the form of the piece so that it can be looped, taking out certain aspects that may make it a "standalone", such as certain aspects of tension, and sometimes even a resolution. The sonic construction itself could be retained if they decided to change the form and deliberately make the piece standalone. I think Shnabubula exemplifies this idea extremely well and really showcases influence from VGM soundtracks in a way that shows how much can be derived from the style. I would strongly suggest listening to his music.

 

[Sarcastic Coffeecup]

It isn't because OSTs are great. It's because pop music is shit.
Most of the OSTs don't work as a standalone products. They're great for making a background, but not as a main dish.

Agreed, pop music is shit, but (may be because I like ambient music) I think vidya OST can work standalone. There are lots of action packed songs or mellow pieces that work well alone because they're made to convey emotion or mood.

 

[Evan of Phrygia]

It's really at its' core a strictly semantic argument. It also strongly depends on what OST is being referenced.

 

[Ayattar]

Due to the intention, sometimes. But the reason that is so is because they adjust the form of the piece so that it can be looped, taking out certain aspects that may make it a "standalone", such as certain aspects of tension, and sometimes even a resolution. The sonic construction itself could be retained if they decided to change the form and deliberately make the piece standalone. I think Shnabubula exemplifies this idea extremely well and really showcases influence from VGM soundtracks in a way that shows how much can be derived from the style. I would strongly suggest listening to his music.

Maybe one day. So far the only OSTs that worked as a standalone music for me are Prince of Persia Warrior Within, Far Cry 3 Blood Dragon, Red Alert series, newest DMC and somewhat Starcraft 2. The rest has some serious problems as:
- being bleak
- too ambient
- too background
- too short (most of the tracks from OST are like 0:30-1:00 long so they don't make good standalone tracks, because normally in the game they're mixed together nullyfying the impression of the tracks being too short) - but that one you already mentioned

I'm not counting the games that took the already existing music.

The other problem may be that I'm not really into the games. But almost every time I try to listen to OST alone it fails me. For example Gears of War. I loved the music, it suits the game perfectly. But as a standalone music it just doesn't work. It needs context. Same goes fot the Gothic I, II and Night of the Raven extension. Or Witcher, or TES. I'm using music from those series when I'm MGing RPG sessions, they're great for setting up the mood, but they don't work alone.

I don't know, there might be some good OSTs on the console platforms but I'm not familiar with them.

 

[Sarcastic Coffeecup]

Maybe one day. So far the only OSTs that worked as a standalone music for me are Prince of Persia Warrior Within, Far Cry 3 Blood Dragon, Red Alert series, newest DMC and somewhat Starcraft 2. The rest has some serious problems as:
- being bleak
- too ambient
- too background
- too short (most of the tracks from OST are like 0:30-1:00 long so they don't make good standalone tracks, because normally in the game they're mixed together nullyfying the impression of the tracks being too short) - but that one you already mentioned

I'm not counting the games that took the already existing music.

The other problem may be that I'm not really into the games. But almost every time I try to listen to OST alone it fails me. For example Gears of War. I loved the music, it suits the game perfectly. But as a standalone music it just doesn't work. It need context.

I don't know, they might be some good OSTs on the console platforms bur I'm not familiar with them.

That's a lot of opinion there.

Also GoW 1 OST is amazing.

 

[Ayattar]

That's a lot of opinion there.

Also GoW 1 OST is amazing.

Try that.

Fuck that. I'm going to complete this game again. Just for the soundtrack. And shitting pants when running away from the Dahaka.

Or the menu music
Jesus fucking Christ. Sometimes I was just leaving the menus open on the purpose.

 

[Evan of Phrygia]

- being bleak
- too ambient

far from an objective comment on every OST. are you coming from a perspective of first person shooters?

- too background
- too short (most of the tracks from OST are like 0:30-1:00 long so they don't make good standalone tracks, because normally in the game they're mixed together nullyfying the impression of the tracks being too short) - but that one you already mentioned

both of these points must be acknowledged as intentional design. the composers are more than capable enough of "actual" music

I'm not counting the games that took the already existing music.

nor am I, although there are interesting renditions in which they use source material to create something new. eg Catherine revisits Gustav Holst's The Planets quite often, and the Bowser theme is a clear BLATANT reference to Mars

The other problem may be that I'm not really into the games. But almost every time I try to listen to OST alone it fails me. For example Gears of War. I loved the music, it suits the game perfectly. But as a standalone music it just doesn't work. It needs context. Same goes fot the Gothic I, II and Night of the Raven extension. Or Witcher, or TES. I'm using music from those series when I'm MGing RPG sessions, they're great for setting up the mood, but they don't work alone.

I don't know, there might be some good OSTs on the console platforms but I'm not familiar with them.

You're referencing intent as a flaw. I understand that that devalues the argument that they aren't "standalone", but at the same time the premise then suggests that by not being "standalone" they are a lesser form of music, which is frankly entirely absurd.

i would also suggest listening to more vgm from older games as well, that may broaden your perspective on the topic.


EDIT: Judging by what you just linked, you probably feel it's background music because they distinctly remove a melodic line from that piece. It's "background" music because that is literally the content of the music that is present. I am sure this doesn't attest to every piece of vgm you have listened to, but it definitely highlights the material you may be thinking of when we talk about OST's.

 

[Sarcastic Coffeecup]

Try that.

Fuck that. I'm going to complete this game again. Just for the soundtrack. And shitting pants when running away from the Dahaka.

It's not bad, no.

Might land in your alley since you seem to enjoy metal music in games as suggested by that and Red Alert

*Opinion alert*
I still think some of the finest OSTs are as follows (no particular order): Killing floor, homeworld 2, Frozen Synapse, Defcon Torchlight 2 and EVE Online. There are other good mix OSTs made out of mix n' match songs, but I chose not to include those, but rather the ones that are specifically tailored for a game.

 

[Evan of Phrygia]

It's not bad, no.

Might land in your alley since you seem to enjoy metal music in games as suggested by that and Red Alert

*Opinion alert*
I still think some of the finest OSTs are as follows (no particular order): Killing floor, homeworld 2, Frozen Synapse, Defcon Torchlight 2 and EVE Online. There are other good mix OSTs made out of mix n' match songs, but I chose not to include those, but rather the ones that are specifically tailored for a game.

I'm listening to one particular track in the Homeworld 2 soundtrack (Mission 03 - Sarum) that sounds REALLY similar to Marconi Union's "Weightless" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nKsEqFgKhoA

 

[Ayattar]

far from an objective comment on every OST. are you coming from a perspective of first person shooters?

I guess you wrote it before reading the rest of my post.

both of these points must be acknowledged as intentional design. the composers are more than capable enough of "actual" music

Of course, but it's not a justification of the OST music flaws.
"Look at this puke"
"Disgusting!"
"But the creator of this puke is capable of doing so much more! His puke art is really astonishing!"
"Ok, thanks for telling me, now I really love it!"
C'mon.

i would also suggest listening to more vgm from older games as well.

Won't work. It's hard to stand Red Alert I because of the compression and the low quality, not to mention C&C Tiberian Sun. I'd love to hear the OSTs from those games remastered tho.
I hope that 1999 is old enough.

Your way of thinking is flawed. OSTs are for listening without the context. So they must work as a standalone music. You really can't use the argument "because of the original intent".

Yeah, thanks for reminding me about KF, Defcon and Frozen Synapse.

 

[Sarcastic Coffeecup]

I'm listening to one particular track in the Homeworld 2 soundtrack (Mission 03 - Sarum) that sounds REALLY similar to Marconi Union's "Weightless" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nKsEqFgKhoA

Minus the beat, yes, but so many ambient songs loom over that general tone with long notes it's almost impossible to tell who copied who, except in this case, where IF one copied the other, it was marconi copying Ruskay.

E:

Your way of thinking is flawed. OSTs are for listening without the context. So they must work as a standalone music. You really can't use the argument "because of the original intent".

I disagree. OSTs are published so that people can listen to the songs they liked in the games/movies.
I haven't heard of an OST being published prior to the game so that people can listen to it without context.

 

[Ayattar]

Implying that listening to the music alone comes with a non-musical context.

 

[Evan of Phrygia]

I guess you wrote it before reading the rest of my post.

Yup. However, what you've cited only either enforces that, or references styles of VGM that are entirely different from the VGM I've been acquainted with.

Regardless of my aspects, you made two subjective comments. Too bleak and too atmospheric are part of a particular style of VGM music but do not encompass VGM as a whole, unless you consider the music from various Nintendo series to be bleak and ambient. I know for a fact Pokemon and most Super Mario Games fail that test.

Of course, but it's not a justification of the OST music flaws.
"Look at this puke"
"Disgusting!"
"But the creator of this puke is capable of doing so much more! His puke art is really astonishing!"
"Ok, thanks for telling me, now I really love it!"
C'mon.

See, this is where your lack of music understanding really shines through. You seem to think that I'm saying that you have to acknowledge that intent makes the music a certain way, and that the composers can do better. That's probably even further from my original point at all, and that's very far from how composing actually works. This isn't a comparison of "well this is shit but they can do better if they wanted"; these pieces are specifically and intentionally designed the way that they are in order to make coherent sense with their landscape with which the game requires. A standalone piece does not have any required reference materials, it just exists as a sole medium of a musically contingent idea. These aren't better or worse comparatively, however they are different. If the designer of the game wants the music to specifically be contingent with events, concepts, and ideas of the game, the music has to be adhered around that. They both require skill and understanding to make that work. I'm not talking about "here's shit but they can make gold"; I'm talking about specialization and each particular type of music fulfilling a particular task respective to its' medium.

Don't work. It's hard to stand Red Alert I because of the compression and the low quality, not to mention C&C Tiberian Sun. I'd love to hear the OSTs from those games remastered tho.
I hope that 1999 is old enough.

1999 is child's play at best. Pokemon came out in 1996 and that certainly isn't the beginning of progressive VGM composition. You're dropping a whole decade here.
also limitations of the technology have little to no bearing on the actual composition, since the composer in no way specifically created the compression and low quality...especially considering you referenced a soundtrack based around live recording, a practice not particularly common in this era, and for good reason (compression and low quality). Consider looking at, say...the other hundreds of games from the 90s?

Your way of thinking is flawed. OSTs are for listening without the context. So they must work as a standalone music. You really can't use the argument "because of the original intent".

See, that in itself is just a perpetual logical flaw. OST's are for listening without context, certainly, but the music isn't specifically designed for when someone exports the music out of its' contex. The idea of intent is entirely relevant considering that the music is not designed for the purpose of listening in an OST. They are designed for the game. The game is not the OST, the composer doesn't write for the OST. The OST is a result of those who preferred the pieces out of context, not for the composer who had a specific role in how and why it was created.

Additionally, I have to just stop and ask why you think "standalone" even exists as a fluent idea. It can acknowledge the way in which certain music is presented, and acknowledges the style of composition, but it has little to nothing to do with the quality it inherently has. The difference between "standalone" and "background" is probably one single line of notes at its' core, and even then the premise that this difference takes precedence over what the music actually sounds like is relatively absurd.

"Implying that listening to music alone has a non-musical context."

For the listener, certainly. For the composer, the number of pieces that actually do have a specific context in which the listening of the piece is designed, specific stories in which the piece is supposed to be adhering to, and therefore written around. It just so happens that these particular pieces have no visual aid and must have musical devices that then fill the space that VGM must create. And even then, there are plenty of examples of multimedia becoming a more prominent style of art in music composition, and pieces such as Aaron Copland's Lincoln Portrait are designed to compliment a specific narrative.

VGM's purpose is not remotely unique, and yet your behaviour relies on the idea that it is.

 

[Sarcastic Coffeecup]

I am thoroughly enjoying these arguments here and NYR thread. Mostly because it isn't your typical internet "No U" arguments, but rather we all base them posts on opinions (Only good when we say and anknowledge so), facts and examples and work to sink the other person's flaws instead of attacking the person in an ad hominem.
Tickles the brain in a good way.

 

[BRN]

[yt]F9hagVL-__c[/yt]

 

[Evan of Phrygia]

I'm trying to figure out if you posted that to make a point or just because it's pretty