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Conservatives In The Fandom.

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CetaceanLover23

CetaceanLover23

Hockey Rules!!
Banned
I and many other people in the fandom are conservative. And for whatever reason, most people in the furry fandom are not only against us, but wishing us dead and claim we are not welcome in the furry fandom.

For a fandom that loves to preach about how welcoming, inclusive, and tolerant they are, most seem to have a hard time actually grasping the idea of actually following through those ideals.

The moment that most in the fandom find out someone in the fandom is conservative or not a far leftist woke person, they are quick to call us either a Nazi, Alt-right (whatever that means), white supremacists, etc.

Why the hate? I thought this fandom was about the exact opposite of hate. I don’t hate any of you leftists and woke people. Sure I disagree, but our disagreement doesn’t in any way shape or form give you the right to wish someone dead. Or cancel them. Etc.
 
CetaceanLover23

CetaceanLover23

Hockey Rules!!
Banned
Flamingo said:
Mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm my intuition tells me to lock this for politics and the inevitable train wreck to follow, but if y'all can discuss without mud slinging I'll let it ride.

:*)
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That’s my intent. I don’t want this to get heated. If it does I or a moderator should flag them.
 
Outré

Outré

(o͞o-trā′)
I’m neither conservative or liberal. I generally prefer to stay away from debating politics now days. It’s really seems pretty negative and hateful from both sides. I don’t have a problem with conservative or liberal view as long as they are not physically hurting anyone or doing anything to inhibit anyones freedom. I’m also generally against anything that expands government power or makes us more reliant on the government… plain and simply I neither like or trust the government, from either side.

I use to agree with conservatives on the issues of fiscal responsibility and small government. Unfortunately the last two republican administrations have expanded power and spent/printed way to much money, so I don’t really feel like they even practice what they preach anymore.

I do agree with liberals on some social issues, but I’m very apposed to the swing towards socialism, because that requires a huge expectation of government power and dependency.

I think one of the big issues with conservatives within the fandom is that they have really gained the perception of being hostile towards the LGBTQ community, witch there are many members of within the fandom. I think in reality most conservatives are probably not hostile towards the community but the ones who gain most of the media attention tend to be. And that really has an impact on the perception that people have, unfortunately.

With that said, i’m also not a proponent of cancel culture. I feel like people should be able to have their views and it’s OK for me to disagree with them, and even dislike them if I disagree with them enough… but I’m not into shutting people down unless they’ve done something pretty serious.
 
Marius Merganser

Marius Merganser

(duck)
CetaceanLover23 said:
For a fandom that loves to preach about how welcoming, inclusive, and tolerant they are, most seem to have a hard time actually grasping the idea of actually following through those ideals.
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Generally speaking, and based on my personal experiences, I would propose this is because conservatives are generally not tolerant and inclusive. Again, my opinion.

CetaceanLover23 said:
Why the hate? I thought this fandom was about the exact opposite of hate. I don’t hate any of you leftists and woke people. Sure I disagree, but our disagreement doesn’t in any way shape or form give you the right to wish someone dead. Or cancel them. Etc.
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Maybe you can explain that to your loud and politically influential misogynistic, racist, anti-LGBTQ, anti-science, antisemtic counterparts. I'm not saying you are any of those, because I don't know you, and I'm not saying all consservatives are like that, but of all the interactions I've had with people who possess those qualities, the vast majority were conservatives. I agree that it's over the top to wish them dead, but I believe being weary is wholly justified at this time and place.
 
E

Ennui Elemental

Eat shit and die, tankie assholes
Banned
It's not a fandom-specific issue. From my side, I see things that alarm me coming from right-of-center, and I see things that alarm me in my own (alleged) camp. I have no idea what should be done, if anything, on a greater scale. On a smaller scale? I suggest treating the Internet like your dinner table. There are things I will never agree with some people on, and they're about as likely to change their minds as I am to change mine.

What the Information Age and the advent of things like the Internet have done is basically turn every damned space of reprieve from this unsolvable quandary into another facet of that very quandary. A single, vociferous member of any given leaning can now light the most incredible wildfire of fucking inane screeching and hostility with the right retweet or link share in the right place. The 24/7 news cycle is constantly feeding you new shit to yell angrily at others about. The fringiest of fringe stances can now get worldwide exposure with a keystroke or three, and there's not even any guarantee that the stance was initially presented with any degree of sincere belief... but it doesn't matter, because the Internet makes Samuel Clemens' famous quote about the spread of various forms of information look like a quaint, charmed and optimistic notion, and when the new hotness in drugs is righteous outrage and dopamine hits a pernicious lie serves as well as any sort of sincerity.

I dread the potential death of the Internet, not just because of the loss of a potentially great tool for betterment of all sorts, but because that withdrawal is going to be a real bitch for some people.
 
quoting_mungo

quoting_mungo

Well-Known Member
It’s not acceptable to wish death on anyone, far as I’m concerned. I don’t think anyone here would be inclined to wish ill on you for the statement “I’m conservative” alone. What tends to sour things, in my experience, is when callous or hostile attitudes towards minorities and/or people who are down on their luck crop up. This does include support for public figures who have expressed e.g. queerphobic stances. It’s understandable if someone views you (gen) less than favorably if you’re prioritizing lower taxes or whatever over them and theirs being treated in ways that may put them in harm’s way.

If you’re fiscally conservative, I may disagree with you (to say the least!) but ultimately don’t give many shits. If you support people who want to turn bigotry into policy, or who try to twist requests for basic respect into “entitlement,” I reserve the right to think you’re a jerk, or at absolute best rubbing elbows with jerks.

(The defacto definition of “canceling” is also vague and overbroad, so I would be careful about painting any broad strokes about it. It should be obvious that letting someone do shitty things with zero pushback isn’t going to end anywhere good, but then that pushback gets called “canceling” and that allegation itself becomes fuel on the fire.)
 
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Firuthi Dragovic

Firuthi Dragovic

World Serpent, overly defensive
F***ing Hostile said:
because the Internet makes Samuel Clemens' famous quote about the spread of various forms of information look like a quaint, charmed and optimistic notion
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Which one? I'm seeing a TON of quotes from him about information, assuming we have the same guy.

Here's a couple:

“Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime.”

“If you don't read the newspaper, you're uninformed. If you read the newspaper, you're mis-informed.”



As for the rest of this discussion, my own experiences have been the complete opposite of Marius's, to the point where I look at a lot of politically-influential people CLAIMING to be conservative and can only see "liberals in denial".

I suspect a lot of people on both sides lack either the capacity or education necessary to understand that just because someone CALLS themselves a label, doesn't mean they ARE the label.
 
E

Ennui Elemental

Eat shit and die, tankie assholes
Banned
Y'all wanna see some real Devil's Advocate shit in here
Marius Merganser said:
Maybe you can explain that to your loud and politically influential misogynistic, racist, anti-LGBTQ, anti-science, antisemtic counterparts.
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Bold of you to assume these people will listen to him if he disagrees any more than they've listened to you. I've lost count of the number of times I've gotten into knock-down drag-out verbal pissing matches with people who ALLEGEDLY align closer to me over contentious subjects. The idea that any given wing is full of people on the same exact page of the book is so patently fucking ludicrous it sounds like something Terry Pratchett would write tongue-firmly-planted-in-cheek.

Firuthi Dragovic said:
“If you don't read the newspaper, you're uninformed. If you read the newspaper, you're mis-informed.”
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Now swap "newspaper" for "Twitter feed of choice", "blog", or whatever tickles your fancy. Want some extra spice? Throw in the misattributed quote of how a lie gets halfway around the world while the truth is lacing its boots. You have people seeking out two things: sources of things to get angry at, and sources that tell them what they already "knew". You have that, and instead of it moving at the speed of a newspaper delivery route and word of mouth, it's moving at the speed of fucking light. Quite literally.


You're welcome.
 
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CetaceanLover23

CetaceanLover23

Hockey Rules!!
Banned
Marius Merganser said:
Generally speaking, and based on my personal experiences, I would propose this is because conservatives are generally not tolerant and inclusive. Again, my opinion.



Maybe you can explain that to your loud and politically influential misogynistic, racist, anti-LGBTQ, anti-science, antisemtic counterparts. I'm not saying you are any of those, because I don't know you, and I'm not saying all consservatives are like that, but of all the interactions I've had with people who possess those qualities, the vast majority were conservatives. I agree that it's over the top to wish them dead, but I believe being weary is wholly justified at this time and place.
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These racists you speak of represent the vast minority of conservatives. Most conservatives I’ve spoken with are in favor or simply don’t care about LGBT.

I’m just your basic run of the mill moderate conservative. I have some liberal opinions as well. Such as animal rights/welfare.
 
Attaman

Attaman

"I say we forget this business and run."
Avoiding all the Political stuff because "There's kind of an explicit policy on that", I will comment on a more specific part:

Fandom, as might be inferred by its name, is community of Fans. As such, content (as well as its creators), prominent / popular persons (as well as their characters), and so-on only really persist so long as there's... y'know, fans.

People dropping the prior like a radioactive brick (again, disregarding any hypothetical political or ideological reasons: Merely talking about the action of dropping them) because it no longer appeals to them is not "Cancel Culture". It's... people moving on. Taking their business elsewhere. Focusing their attention on other interests. This kind of feels important to specify, as people (as well as shows, characters, web communities, and so-on) aren't owed a platform, fanbase, or so-on. If somebody - for an absolutely off-the-wall, utterly non-political example - is found to eat babies in their off time, it's not Cancel Culture if their follower count plummets. If a webcomic's daily hits take a double-digit percentage drop because the plot pulls a "Final Season of GoT" equivalent, that isn't Cancel Culture.

This may seem a bit odd / redundant to bring up here, but with a highly decentralized fandom like the Furry Fandom there really isn't much "Canceling" that can happen outside a genuine loss of interest by the community. There is no Disney looming over somebody's head ready to drop a hammer the second optics turn sour. Art hosting sites sprout up like weeds (both Furry-specific and in general: People still use Tumblr, Pillowfort, Twitter, Facebook, Newgrounds, DeviantArt, FurAffinity, SoFurry, HentaiFoundry, Wordpress, Itch.io, Patreon, and a bunch of other sites to host their content as a non-comprehensive list) and as seen with (again using non-political examples) Mr. Dog Diddler the fans of the artist will follow them if the scandal doesn't cross too many lines (for said fans).

Now, I get it that not being able to openly discuss / share content on a subject matter in a community space because your opinions run against... is frustrating. The number of 40K communities I can actually bother to tolerate can practically be counted on one hand for just such reasons. But the thing is, that's... not really a case of "Cancel Culture". Because see above. That's an entirely different complaint, one about organization and / or lack of competent and dedicated organization efforts made in good faith.
 
Connor J. Coyote

Connor J. Coyote

¥otie ¥otezer
CetaceanLover23 said:
For a fandom that loves to preach about how welcoming, inclusive, and tolerant they are, most seem to have a hard time actually grasping the idea of actually following through those ideals.
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Eh... it sounds like you may just need to find the right people to hang with; as *there are* many people of the shall we say "conservative perusasion" - that are a part of this community ☺.... and this is evident in many places... like on the web, (like on here).... in local community functions, (like meetings and groups), and even - in some local charitable events.

And so.... if anyone (who's conservative) feels isolated - then, (my advice would be) just to simply look around more.
CetaceanLover23 said:
The moment that most in the fandom find out someone in the fandom is conservative or not a far leftist woke person, they are quick to call us either a Nazi, Alt-right (whatever that means), white supremacists, etc.
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The best thing to do is ignore those types of critics, at that point; and just focus more on the people (and places) that'll support you.
CetaceanLover23 said:
Why the hate? I thought this fandom was about the exact opposite of hate.
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Well, some people have a tendency to place their politics in the mix, on a lot of occasions (on both sides)... and in turn, there are some - that just need something negative to fixate on (with those that may disagree with them). ☺

And so again - just focusing on the people and places that'll support you, is what one should do.
---------------
(Just my two cents) ☺
 
TyraWadman

TyraWadman

The Brutally Honest Man-Child
If the only thing you have to offer in a discussion is how you are conservative, then you have a lot of room for self improvement.

Don't drag the rest of the fandom into political drama please. We were just minding our own business until you brought it here. I'm personally not interested in scoring points with people, especially when so many of us don't even live under the same government as you do.
 
CetaceanLover23

CetaceanLover23

Hockey Rules!!
Banned
TyraWadman said:
If the only thing you have to offer in a discussion is how you are conservative, then you have a lot of room for self improvement.

Don't drag the rest of the fandom into political drama please. We were just minding our own business until you brought it here. I'm personally not interested in scoring points with people, especially when so many of us don't even live under the same government as you do.
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I brought it up because too often I see other conservatives in the fandom be targeted and harassed by those who disagree with them from within the fandom.
 
MechaMegs

MechaMegs

The Red Menace
Banned
Based on the majority of the farm I am part of are LGBT+ that fled their homes due to unsafe environments or being outright kicked out for being LGBT+ from their guardians who happen to be conservatives whom they thought they could trust because they said they didn't care either way about such things and having changed that tune when it was their own really makes me have a heavy distrust of conservatives.

There are also the health concerns with many being anti-vaxx//anti-mask types and as someone with a suppressed immune system I am really not a fan of that whole tune.

Then there is the denial they spin about climate change.

Or the hypocrisy of trying to play populist and harping about how they are good christians and this and that yet seem to fail to embody the words of their messiah and at times fight and push against them like a certain peace sign canidae.

I can't go into the political side of things for obvious reasons but I will leave that door at DMs with the note of, the legislation from conservatives speaks volumes.

So yeah its more so a history of things that makes trust very tenuous draws suspicions.
 
CetaceanLover23

CetaceanLover23

Hockey Rules!!
Banned
MechaMegs said:
Based on the majority of the farm I am part of are LGBT+ that fled their homes due to unsafe environments or being outright kicked out for being LGBT+ from their guardians who happen to be conservatives whom they thought they could trust because they said they didn't care either way about such things and having changed that tune when it was their own really makes me have a heavy distrust of conservatives.

There are also the health concerns with many being anti-vaxx//anti-mask types and as someone with a suppressed immune system I am really not a fan of that whole tune.

Then there is the denial they spin about climate change.

Or the hypocrisy of trying to play populist and harping about how they are good christians and this and that yet seem to fail to embody the words of their messiah and at times fight and push against them like a certain peace sign canidae.

I can't go into the political side of things for obvious reasons but I will leave that door at DMs with the note of, the legislation from conservatives speaks volumes.

So yeah its more so a history of things that makes trust very tenuous draws suspicions.
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You do know I am bisexual right?
 
Zippy!

Zippy!

Certified Bean
CetaceanLover23 said:
BLM the organization, socialism vs capitalism, critical race theory, anti cop/law enforcement actions/rhetoric, what is and isn’t considered a riot, gun laws, FREEDOM OF SPEECH, etc.
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Okay, well, those are gonna be inflammatory topics in any fandom, on any forum.

Not just for furries, in my opinion.

To be honest, I think this has less to do with conservatives, and more of how todays behavior, especially online behavior, in interactions with political views is greatly different, and if that feeling of safety immunity behind a screen has made us forget civility (in most cases).
 
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MechaMegs

MechaMegs

The Red Menace
Banned
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