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Corona in Vancouver BC?

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lazarus102

Well-Known Member
Just what it says, I want to know what the situation is there. Because I have been planning to go there over the summer, just to escape tinytown life. I don't have a crap-ton of money, so I'd either stay in homeless shelter, or sleeping bag/tent (if shelters are closed). I was hoping to see some movies while I'm there. Also to get my motorcycle driver's license. Maybe hit a clinic/hospital or two and get a good look into my overall health (checkup, blood checks .etc); since the one clinic in this town is useless unless I'm half dead-dying.

As thankful as I typically am for any kind of conversation; I'd prefer that people only answer if they actually have answers. I mean, I could speculate about it on my own. Just need to find out if I should go down there (or if literally everything is gonna be closed/outta service). I know it's not gonna be like normal down there, with the lock-down shit. But I'm going fukin nuts in this stupid town, and I could really use an escape..

Thx in advance for any valid info.
 

lazarus102

Well-Known Member
It's not like 'vacation', Like, I'm bored of my fancy loft, and I so need a trip to the Bahamas. It's more like, I've been stuck in a tiny town for the past two years, suffered a major mental break in that time, and slowly sliding back into that mental break state, since there's literally nothing to do here.. I've been sitting around my one bedroom apartment going stir crazy every day and wondering every day as to what my purpose is in this life (if any).

And got a tooth infection that comes and goes (often feel like I've been literally punched in the face), and apparently an ear infection (which could well be spread from the tooth infection), and the only thing the Dentist will do is rip out the last of my teeth so I can't eat anymore, since I sure AF can't afford dentures. And the only thing the Dr will do is prescribe me more antibiotics to take down swelling. So, way I figure it, if that ear infection is from the tooth, it'll probably make it's way to my brain next and kill me.

So, to sum it up, I get to sit around, for days, weeks, months at a time, all alone, hating my life, but fearing my death.. Shit.. corona could effectively kill me, without even contracting it..

What ever happened to those so-called vaccines anyways?
 

TyraWadman

The Brutally Honest Man-Child
It's not like 'vacation', Like, I'm bored of my fancy loft, and I so need a trip to the Bahamas. It's more like, I've been stuck in a tiny town for the past two years, suffered a major mental break in that time, and slowly sliding back into that mental break state, since there's literally nothing to do here.. I've been sitting around my one bedroom apartment going stir crazy every day and wondering every day as to what my purpose is in this life (if any).

And got a tooth infection that comes and goes (often feel like I've been literally punched in the face), and apparently an ear infection (which could well be spread from the tooth infection), and the only thing the Dentist will do is rip out the last of my teeth so I can't eat anymore, since I sure AF can't afford dentures. And the only thing the Dr will do is prescribe me more antibiotics to take down swelling. So, way I figure it, if that ear infection is from the tooth, it'll probably make it's way to my brain next and kill me.

So, to sum it up, I get to sit around, for days, weeks, months at a time, all alone, hating my life, but fearing my death.. Shit.. corona could effectively kill me, without even contracting it..

What ever happened to those so-called vaccines anyways?

Well it varies from place to place. I know they are typically prioritizing front line workers and the elderly so if you aren't one of those, you might have to wait. But the only way you'll find out is by digging for the answer or calling.

They have them out here in the middle of nowhere land where I am. So I'm sure b.c already has them.
 

lazarus102

Well-Known Member
Well, shit.. If the vaccines are already being distributed, then what's with the continued lock-downs?
 

lazarus102

Well-Known Member
In a better state of mind, I may seek more of these answers for myself, but honestly, I feel pretty outta it right now. Like, that sense that ya somehow got half an ashtray into the back of your sinuses.. (I don't smoke, so that's not a normal thing).
 

TyraWadman

The Brutally Honest Man-Child
Well, shit.. If the vaccines are already being distributed, then what's with the continued lock-downs?

Because production is gradual and doctors can't physically give the entire population needles overnight. There are way more people than doctors after all! XD

Doctors were also one of the first to receive it, and kinda like the flu shot, some people became ill. Not to mention they still have to take the same safety measures for people going into their hospitals to make sure no one coming/going has OR transfers the virus to anyone else there.

It's not a guaranteed cure though, and since you don't seem to be up to date, there are other strains of covid already. You still need to act safely, especially if people in your area have decided to party hard, otherwise you risk getting shit on by his bigger and badder bro.
 

Attaman

"I say we forget this business and run."
Because production is gradual and doctors can't physically give the entire population needles overnight. There are way more people than doctors after all! XD

Doctors were also one of the first to receive it, and kinda like the flu shot, some people became ill. Not to mention they still have to take the same safety measures for people going into their hospitals to make sure no one coming/going has OR transfers the virus to anyone else there.

It's not a guaranteed cure though, and since you don't seem to be up to date, there are other strains of covid already. You still need to act safely, especially if people in your area have decided to party hard, otherwise you risk getting shit on by his bigger and badder bro.
On top of this:
1) A lot of people still can't be relied upon to wear their damn masks or practice social distancing. Which compounds with-
2) There's a lot of mutated strains going around. Strains the vaccines are not universally effective against, and which previous exposure to don't provide resilience either (so you can't just go "Vaccinate the people who haven't got it yet, starting from most to least vulnerable", particularly since new strains keep overtaking old strains in prevalence). Both of which become horror shows when combined with-
3) Herd immunity only works when a significant majority of the population is immune or effectively immune. Especially when looking at high mutation rates, as otherwise 1 and 2 lead to efficacy dropping even lower (or, worse, to 0% and having to start everything over).

Lastly, since it bears specific mention,
4) Vaccination does not render absolute immunity even to known / older strains. And if you've ever played XCom, Final Fantasy Tactics, older Fallout games, or so-on, you should be well aware of how often "95% chance of success" can fail when it's least convenient.

This perfect storm has lead to a lot of officials taking this deathly seriously as the worst case scenario is "The ride never ends". It does not help that, on top of being horrible in mortality rate to older generations, evidence is increasingly piling up for long-term side-effects for those infected (especially those hospitalized) by the virus, so nobody wants to play the game "Want to find out what happens when 1/6th your working age population has chronic fatigue, prominent lung / neurological scarring, et al?" They especially don't want to play a version of this game wherein vaccination efforts reach a point they simply aren't feasible anymore (see: It mutates beyond a point we can 'cost-efficiently' handle), and the only answer to the above question becomes "It doesn't look like we have a choice in this matter now does it?"
 

Attaman

"I say we forget this business and run."
Oh, I'm firmly in agreement that cost should have zero relevance in countering this: Public Health is a matter of Public Health, and the second the societal contract falls apart and says "The general population can suffer / die / be permanently maimed on a statistically significant scale so that one in a couple (tens of) thousand(s) doesn't lose their caviar" you no longer have a societal contract but a powder keg with a lit fuse. But considering we didn't even get half a year into it in the US before high ranking politicians and major news stations were honestly - explicitly, literally - floating the idea "Would it really be that bad to expose so much of our population that ~3% of it dies, if it winds up burning the virus out quickly and saving money in the long run?"... well, options were limited in how to handle this. And while yes, the US is not Vancouver BC, the giant land border and history of US people skipping out of the country for medical reasons means the worst of our shit is invariably going to flow both up and down. Likewise I know the US was not alone in this strategy.

Basically, since we didn't want to put the effort in for any proper Shutdowns (see: Actual 'No going outside barring necessary services / infrastructure'; increased testing and treatment availability; infrastructure expansion to take over any surges; heavy travel limitations; the necessary wage / rent / whatever compensation necessary to keep this from making people and businesses implode into debt), nor take the effort to circumvent lockdowns by going all-in on testing and treatment (major infrastructure projects to expand the number of federally / publicly ran hospitals; rapid training of medical professionals to recognize and aid take care of the oncoming rush; major industrial overhaul to provide the necessary equipment, etcetera), and nobody wants to go full "State Knows What's Best" for obvious reasons, our options have cranked back to "Say everything's fine to avoid panics, 'shut things down' when cases get really bad / we're on a cusp of reaching a point beyond control, hope that we get vaccines and vaccinated fast enough to avoid the obvious dead-end at the end of this path".

It sucks, and in the long run the short-term 'damage' (a term I use extremely loosely when you consider what was being proposed above) would have been far smaller and less fatal than the "Stare urgently at biotechnicians hoping for a miracle shot, keep grabbing the skillet while the iron's still hot because it looks cooler than it did five minutes ago" path we chose, but at this point we're basically playing the waiting game for either:
A) A 100% efficacy vaccine to come out;
B) People to take the damned hint and enough to achieve at least Herd Resistance;
C) One of the earlier mentioned options to be pushed through out of desperation;
D) "Hey kids, wanna see one hell of a traumatized work force?"
 

lazarus102

Well-Known Member
Oh, I'm firmly in agreement that cost should have zero relevance in countering this: Public Health is a matter of Public Health, and the second the societal contract falls apart and says "The general population can suffer / die / be permanently maimed on a statistically significant scale so that one in a couple (tens of) thousand(s) doesn't lose their caviar" you no longer have a societal contract but a powder keg with a lit fuse. But considering we didn't even get half a year into it in the US before high ranking politicians and major news stations were honestly - explicitly, literally - floating the idea "Would it really be that bad to expose so much of our population that ~3% of it dies, if it winds up burning the virus out quickly and saving money in the long run?"... well, options were limited in how to handle this. And while yes, the US is not Vancouver BC, the giant land border and history of US people skipping out of the country for medical reasons means the worst of our shit is invariably going to flow both up and down. Likewise I know the US was not alone in this strategy.

Basically, since we didn't want to put the effort in for any proper Shutdowns (see: Actual 'No going outside barring necessary services / infrastructure'; increased testing and treatment availability; infrastructure expansion to take over any surges; heavy travel limitations; the necessary wage / rent / whatever compensation necessary to keep this from making people and businesses implode into debt), nor take the effort to circumvent lockdowns by going all-in on testing and treatment (major infrastructure projects to expand the number of federally / publicly ran hospitals; rapid training of medical professionals to recognize and aid take care of the oncoming rush; major industrial overhaul to provide the necessary equipment, etcetera), and nobody wants to go full "State Knows What's Best" for obvious reasons, our options have cranked back to "Say everything's fine to avoid panics, 'shut things down' when cases get really bad / we're on a cusp of reaching a point beyond control, hope that we get vaccines and vaccinated fast enough to avoid the obvious dead-end at the end of this path".

It sucks, and in the long run the short-term 'damage' (a term I use extremely loosely when you consider what was being proposed above) would have been far smaller and less fatal than the "Stare urgently at biotechnicians hoping for a miracle shot, keep grabbing the skillet while the iron's still hot because it looks cooler than it did five minutes ago" path we chose, but at this point we're basically playing the waiting game for either:
A) A 100% efficacy vaccine to come out;
B) People to take the damned hint and enough to achieve at least Herd Resistance;
C) One of the earlier mentioned options to be pushed through out of desperation;
D) "Hey kids, wanna see one hell of a traumatized work force?"
Wow, very well spoken. If I didn't know better, I'd think you may be a Dr yourself (or at least someone very capable of public speaking/speech writing).

Yea.. Our society has been circling the drain for decades now, at an exponential rate to boot. The gov, mainstream media, and corporate sector, have been pushing the lower class to the brink of a civil war, then pushing booze and drugs as a solve for it.. Keep em so intoxicated that they can't/won't fight back.

Although I honestly don't believe anything too terrible would befall the world after a 'state knows best' scenario. I mean, the thing about Canada/America (Obviously the US moreso, due to having 10X the population), is that they require a good face in order to keep the people in line. If they were to go too far in the way of North Korea, they'd lose a lot of their previously blind followers.

Though with how things are these days, I imagine they'd just cover it up by throwing the bulk of the entire current staff under the bus, and refilling the ranks. Another 'meet the new boss, same as the old boss' scenario. In the end, nothing changes, they rebuild the keg, add a new fuse, light, and go on their marry way, continuing to add minor fixes and patches to keep the intoxicated populous at a perpetual state of barely content.

Oh, and US is far worse, though Canada is on the same tracks. Lower population = slower progress on the burning of that fuse, but apart from being way behind in progression when it comes to ignorance against gays/immigrants, and debateably, gun laws, Canada is making so many of the same mistakes.
 

quoting_mungo

Well-Known Member
nobody wants to play the game "Want to find out what happens when 1/6th your working age population has chronic fatigue, prominent lung / neurological scarring, et al?"
I was just speculating today about what effect it might have to push these numbers rather than death rates. Especially the portion of permanent or long-term disability in people who had zero known risk factors. Since people seem to have decided that “not a vulnerable population” and “x% death rate” mean “well it won’t kill me.”

If I were to get it and was hypothetically given the choice (not that that’s an option), I might frankly take death over that permanent damage. Because even more fatigue and brain fog than I already have would be fucking torturous.
 

Frank Gulotta

Send us your floppy
Given the sort of.. extreme solutions we see being advocated here, maybe it would be interesting to also look at the long term psychological damages that were caused by destructive measures with dubious efficiency like lockdowns
 

Ramjet

Seizing the memes of production
Extreme solutions indeed lol

Must be a pity for the one's in charge, all of those pesky gun owners getting in the way of progress...
 

Attaman

"I say we forget this business and run."
I'll not mince words: Whatever your thoughts are on "Maybe provide reasonable access to preventative and general healthcare to the general population" or "Give poor people money so that grandma doesn't have a double-digit chance of drowning on land / suffering a major stroke for entirely preventable reasons" (and when I say "Whatever your thoughts" I mean "Don't even try debating these, I'm sure Moderation's already watching this thread like a hawk courtesy of 3+ usernames present, self-included), I am being entirely serious about the "Let's Find Out is utterly terrifying and anyone with half an inkling of the details on the ground is taking avoidance of this seriously for a reason".

10% of surviving COVID-19 victims are long-haulers. As in months (in some cases up to / over a year) after recovery and testing negative they persistently and consistently maintain multiple symptoms. This is just long-term symptom persistence and nothing else. About 1.5% of those who're hospitalized by COVID-19 (which runs a gauntlet of about 9% hospitalization rate for those in tip-top prime condition... to almost 40% for those with at least one or more underlying factors, factors which include things like "Arthritis" or "Overweight") have strokes. The percentage among hospitalized patients increases to 25% for specific cardiovascular complications and almost 50% for general long-term damage. Another 4% of the general COVID-19 infected population suffer some degree of permanent and / or long-term lung-scarring. There is evidence to suggest that those infected by COVID-19 will suffer increased susceptibility to Alzheimers, Parkinson's Disease, Dementia, et al, though just how much is still under study and the connection is predominantly made at this time with other diseases of similar nature that have similar neurological impacts with their symptoms.

This is not something to play around with. Turning it into "Another, weaker flu" is quite literally how you wind up with the 9/11 Responder crisis occurring on a national scale amongst the entire general population. Even if we do work all the kinks out with the virus and get a functional, 100% efficacy vaccine tomorrow that wipes out the disease before Fall, the fact that our response to such a thing was basically "Let's play Russian Roulette and hope we don't get the bullet" has a lot of public health officials concerned for obvious reasons (Namely, if I need to spell it out for some people: If we have to keep playing that game, one of those times the chamber isn't going to go "Click").
 

lazarus102

Well-Known Member
Yeah death penalty to protect people from a sickness with a 0.5% death rate, makes perfect sense
Naw, death penalty to stop stupid people from destroying the lives of non-stupid people.. It's called Darwin's theory, it's about time that was put to work in our society in methods that go beyond class discrimination.

I was just speculating today about what effect it might have to push these numbers rather than death rates. Especially the portion of permanent or long-term disability in people who had zero known risk factors. Since people seem to have decided that “not a vulnerable population” and “x% death rate” mean “well it won’t kill me.”

If I were to get it and was hypothetically given the choice (not that that’s an option), I might frankly take death over that permanent damage. Because even more fatigue and brain fog than I already have would be fucking torturous.
That's a tough call... I also have a hard time with those things... But it's easier to talk about death than it is to commit to it.. I've spent the past 2 years in a downhill psychological state, and wished death upon myself many times, but any time in which I felt physically ill enough that it feels like it could come to death, my first reaction is 'no.. not yet..'.
 

lazarus102

Well-Known Member
Extreme solutions indeed lol

Must be a pity for the one's in charge, all of those pesky gun owners getting in the way of progress...
eh.. gun owners.. I'm Canadian. and honestly, even if I weren't, I really wouldn't see the logic in carrying a gun around on me. I mean, much as I'd love to kill some stupid people when I go out, it just doesn't really seem worth it.. Plus they're awfully loud..

I'm sure Moderation's already watching this thread like a hawk courtesy of 3+ usernames present, self-included)
My mind has already been on that. But frankly, if Corona does continue to mutate faster than we can make vaccines; we could be looking at the end of the world as we know it. All things considered, a spicy forum thread should be the least of anyone's concerns..

10% of surviving COVID-19 victims are long-haulers. As in months (in some cases up to / over a year) after recovery and testing negative they persistently and consistently maintain multiple symptoms. This is just long-term symptom persistence and nothing else. About 1.5% of those who're hospitalized by COVID-19 (which runs a gauntlet of about 9% hospitalization rate for those in tip-top prime condition... to almost 40% for those with at least one or more underlying factors, factors which include things like "Arthritis" or "Overweight") have strokes. The percentage among hospitalized patients increases to 25% for specific cardiovascular complications and almost 50% for general long-term damage. Another 4% of the general COVID-19 infected population suffer some degree of permanent and / or long-term lung-scarring. There is evidence to suggest that those infected by COVID-19 will suffer increased susceptibility to Alzheimers, Parkinson's Disease, Dementia, et al, though just how much is still under study and the connection is predominantly made at this time with other diseases of similar nature that have similar neurological impacts with their symptoms.
And as much as Muricans like to boast up the Canadian health care system, it's pretty shit right now. It wasn't awesome before Covid, but there's already been predictions (at least a few months ago when I checked) that Canada is going to run outta hospital beds soon.

If they were smart, they'd start making medical education free. Cuz charging an astoundingly unreachable number to get educated to cure a virus that's currently affecting the entire planet, in a world that's doomed by a shared financial decline; is just the dumbest thing since people that party during a pandemic.
 

Frank Gulotta

Send us your floppy
Naw, death penalty to stop stupid people from destroying the lives of non-stupid people.. It's called Darwin's theory, it's about time that was put to work in our society in methods that go beyond class discrimination.
It's a stupid idea, and it would (drastically) destroy the lives of people who are overwhelmingly normal. Therefore your proposal does exactly the contrary of what it claims to do, it's stupid people destroying (not to mention terminating) the lives of non-stupid people
 

ben909

vaporeon character is busy so coffee mushroom now
Can we not kill the people and just lock them alone in a room for 14 days for doing something stupid?
 

Saokymo

Art Cookie
But frankly, if Corona does continue to mutate faster than we can make vaccines; we could be looking at the end of the world as we know it.

Nah, coronavirus won’t be the end of the world even if/when it mutates past the vaccines. There have been thousands of plagues throughout human history, yet we’re still here. The current coronavirus pandemic barely makes it on Wikipedia’s top ten deadly plagues list - for all of the chaos we’ve seen come from it, the loss of life from corona is nowhere near the toll lost to HIV/AIDS, or the 1918 Flu.

It’s pretty much inevitable that the coronavirus will continue to mutate into different strains, and eventually one of them will be able to slip past the current vaccines. That’s what viruses do. Literally, the entirety of human history has been a biological arms race between us, our immune systems & whatever nature designs to throw at us. So when corona mutates past the vaccines, we will do what we’ve always done as a species - adapt, and eventually overcome.
 

RAM

Well-Known Member
Oh, don’t worry: That spicy take isn’t new on here. In fact, everyone grilling you over it so far has explicitly endorsed ethnic cleansing as a viable precaution for the sake of public health, with 2/3 of them going further and explicitly endorsing and defending the use of chemical weapons and live ammunition (don’t worry, only for “extremity shots) as explicit anti-disease precautions.

I'm sure the accusations outlined in this comment are 100 percent authentic and are in no way exaggerations or blatant fabrications.
 

Attaman

"I say we forget this business and run."
I'm sure the accusations outlined in this comment are 100 percent authentic and are in no way exaggerations or blatant fabrications.
Great! Irrelevant to the fact that this thread’s probably not going to be locked / infractions are unlikely over to be handed out over that tangent unless Moderators are about to put a lot of threads on much shakier ground (Show of hands: Who thinks Venting or Unpopular Opinions is going to make it to July if “[x] idiots should [suffer / be killed]” is enough to shut threads down?).

Unless your point behind the denial is that it is / it should be, that this thread is at risk over the death penalty line, in which case... well, if everyone’s in agreement that wishing to inflict suffering / death on people under the guise of safety and order should be met immediately and strictly by staff intervention? I won’t lose any sleep. In fact I’d quite enjoy a uniform, vocal, and bipartisan affirming by the forum population that we have zero tolerance for such rhetoric. Would you like me to ping some Moderators to move this Suggestion to the Site Discussion area so that we can show this rare moment of joint agreement with users arguing that posts advocating to maim, kill, ruin the life of, or otherwise harm others - legally or otherwise - should be met with zero tolerance and any such bad actors confronted immediately? That way we can both keep this thread on topic, veer away from questionable debate(s), and push for a universally desired policy change in one. A win-win, I’m starting to think.
 

Frank Gulotta

Send us your floppy
Show of hands: Who thinks Venting or Unpopular Opinions is going to make it to July if “[x] idiots should [suffer / be killed]” is enough to shut threads down?
I've never seen anything on this forum as bad as advocating for the murder of people for the crime of partying, if you have perhaps you should show some proof
 

contemplationistwolf

Aspirational AI Engineer Wolf
It's a stupid idea, and it would (drastically) destroy the lives of people who are overwhelmingly normal. Therefore your proposal does exactly the contrary of what it claims to do, it's stupid people destroying (not to mention terminating) the lives of non-stupid people
I'd say that people who go around callously spreading a deadly disease are definitely subnormal.
 

lazarus102

Well-Known Member
Therefore your proposal does exactly the contrary of what it claims to do, it's stupid people destroying (not to mention terminating) the lives of non-stupid people
This entire line just confuses me. You basically agree with me that stupid people are destroying the lives of non-stupid people, and by that logic, terminating the stupid people would fix that. Yet in the same breath are somehow claiming that I am wrong? lol..

Can we not kill the people and just lock them alone in a room for 14 days for doing something stupid?
Kill the people and then lock them in a room? That seems a bit odd.. Why would you need to lock them up if you've already killed them? LOL... And when you unlock the door.. zombies? lol.. Either way, my point is, that obviously the penalties need to be hard, or people don't listen. And anyone desperate enough to get other people sick that they'd risk their own lives, well, isn't that generally what we'd call a terrorist?

Nah, coronavirus won’t be the end of the world even if/when it mutates past the vaccines. There have been thousands of plagues throughout human history, yet we’re still here. The current coronavirus pandemic barely makes it on Wikipedia’s top ten deadly plagues list - for all of the chaos we’ve seen come from it, the loss of life from corona is nowhere near the toll lost to HIV/AIDS, or the 1918 Flu.

It’s pretty much inevitable that the coronavirus will continue to mutate into different strains, and eventually one of them will be able to slip past the current vaccines. That’s what viruses do. Literally, the entirety of human history has been a biological arms race between us, our immune systems & whatever nature designs to throw at us. So when corona mutates past the vaccines, we will do what we’ve always done as a species - adapt, and eventually overcome.
Perhaps, but I try not to take historical events, as being the only possible outcomes either. No offense, as it is so common, but it's actually rather stupid to not at least consider that this one may be different. Maybe it won't, but we can't assume that just because something always happens one way, that it's incapable of going the other way.

I've never seen anything on this forum as bad as advocating for the murder of people for the crime of partying, if you have perhaps you should show some proof
With your level of short sightedness, I'm starting to feel like you'd be one of the ones on the chopping block, lol.. 'crime of partying'.. lol... Talk about over simplification.. More like the crime of initiating, and or, taking part in a large public gathering during a pandemic. Your stupidity may help take part in the deaths of thousands/millions of people when the exponents are taken into account, That is effectively terrorism.

I'd say that people who go around callously spreading a deadly disease are definitely subnormal.
Damn rights, lol..
 
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