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Curious : what draws you in a certain artstyle ?

Klox

Rollling Tumbling along
Hello !

Ive been browsing intensely on FA these past few days (viva la quarantina) and ive been wondering what makes people notice certain artworks and dislike others. Normally i would have said "quality" but at least on FA it....doesnt seem to be the case ?

Dont get me wrong i love that there is so many different styles, with artworks that could be put on Beaux Arts museums and other that looks like its been done by a first-time drawer ! I want to believe there is no "good artwork" (which generally just mean western style realistic representation) and "bad" (which mean..everything else). And sometimes i feel a little sad, because i think this idea that there is good artwork that we should strive to attain can break creativity (like what could we create if we just wanted to have fun with shapes and colors without regards towards color theory and anatomy?). But yeah nevertheless we -and I- still live under the pressure of doing "good" artwork, because we live in a society and i want to be recognized and congratulated by people.

YEAH im rambling lol. What i mean is that while browsing i saw lot of artwork with unrealistic proportions, dubious perspective, and yeah generally what we could call "bad" artwork, having as much or more views/favorites/commisions than artwork thatd be called "good". And the artists created accounts around the same time, and have similar number of submissions. So im guessing quality here is not what attract people. I dont know if ppl here have the same ccl as me ?

And so im wondering, what attracts ppl then ? Does realistic/pro artwork intimidate ppl, who prefer to follow ppl tht looks more like artist-next-door lol ? Is it just that cute/naive/childish artstyle is more fashionable ? Is it a fetish thing ? Smth else ?

What do you think ?
 

TyraWadman

The Brutally Honest Man-Child
I am personally drawn to things for very different reasons. Sometimes I fave things because I like the crisp outline. Other times it's the color palette/softness of the overall presentation. Sometimes it's just downright funny or adorable. Other times it could be a kids drawing, but I can see what they were aiming for and it's it looks pretty cool in my imagination!

Everyone has their own reasons, however, I find a lot of people tend to only follow one thing: either the typical/popular anime style, or 'that one soft-shaded furry' style. If you even try to reinvent it, or if it doesn't follow the popular formula, it's pretty much nothing. People are typically out to indulge, so popular content/fanart and things that generally make them feel good (AKA laugh) are more likely to be recognized.

"Oh, I love that show! This artist drew art for that show!" *Fave*
"Lolololol that's so me!" *Fave*

And don't get me wrong, I'm not saying this is bad to do. Just an observation is all.
 

Ziggy Schlacht

Hasn't figured out this "straight" business
Technically good does not mean interesting. There's entire museums of photo-level portraits that no one really cares about. We see artists who do amazingly life like ball point pen art, but no one is really flocking to commission them. The reason being that what's in the art and the story it tells is far more important than the fundamental quality.

So when you see a "good" piece get less attention than a "bad" it's because the good piece lacked something that made it interesting to look at.

Focus more on the story your art says than how classically "good" it might be.

That and, despite posting for 3 years now, you can never predict what the masses will like.
 

Jaredthefox92

Banned
Banned
As for me and the Sonic style. Well let's just say I used to be a big Nintendo fan and I was into that sort of cartoony art style, (even into games like Advance Wars). However, I got into the Sonic style when my friend told me about Silver and Blaze. Suddenly characters that to me were boring in Sonic Heroes, now all of the sudden had superpowers and Sonic 06's story was dark enough for me. I've tried the style a long time ago back in 2010 but I couldn't get it right, a lot of my early characters were admittedly very silly and cringy, (Scylla over there was a big yellow cat <-) but I've read the Archie Sonic style and I sort of liked the whole psuedo-seriousness of the comics. To me Mobians as a species are fun to make, simply because they're a blend of human like features with anthro species, often with superpowers,

Another aspect is that Sonic style can be "serious", Shadow can use guns, and a lot of Egg Empire soldiers in the comics use weaponry. I like that it's a nice meia between cartoony and seriousness. Sonic style can be very varied, but it almost is anime style mixed with Mickey Mouse.

Oh and I have autism, so that may have something to do with it.
 

moutymoo

Member
Personnaly, I'm more drawn to pieces that tell something, either a meaning or a story, because it's much more interesting to look at and wonder what the characters are doing, what is unfolding. Tough I cannot say that i don't fav pieces that just "look nice" ( because they do look nice in my opinion and it'd be a shame not to fav ).

The things that interest me the most are pieces that invoke inspiration or reflection on one's self, like those that inspire a dream like sensation and loses you into this spiraling abyss of wonder and amazement. But also those with a soothing and calm atmosphere that relax the soul and mind. Still-life and landscape paintings have that effect for me, reminding me what the human mind has to offer in terms of beautiful imagery, and also this wonderful rock we live on. Especially relating to impressionism and its derivatives, just imagining the thought process of the artist and the time consuming process of picking each colour for one object, to create a wonderful piece.
Also, I find art involving moving objects or characters very interesting to look at. Like said above, when it tells something, it's really cool, even with difformed anatomy, or weird perspective ( not weird as in wrong but as uncommon ) If it conveys movement and feeling, I find it awesome !

On the subject of character depiction ( especially furry art ), I find interesting the details that make the piece "pop-out", like the choice in shading, colour palette or general feeling of the picture. particularly, I tend to drift towards cell-shading with crisp line-art, "vibrant" colours ( tints of green and red are the good stuff ), and epic/proud or happy feeling exuding from the piece.
 

Klox

Rollling Tumbling along
I am personally drawn to things for very different reasons. Sometimes I fave things because I like the crisp outline. Other times it's the color palette/softness of the overall presentation. Sometimes it's just downright funny or adorable. Other times it could be a kids drawing, but I can see what they were aiming for and it's it looks pretty cool in my imagination!

Everyone has their own reasons, however, I find a lot of people tend to only follow one thing: either the typical/popular anime style, or 'that one soft-shaded furry' style. If you even try to reinvent it, or if it doesn't follow the popular formula, it's pretty much nothing. People are typically out to indulge, so popular content/fanart and things that generally make them feel good (AKA laugh) are more likely to be recognized.

"Oh, I love that show! This artist drew art for that show!" *Fave*
"Lolololol that's so me!" *Fave*

And don't get me wrong, I'm not saying this is bad to do. Just an observation is all.

Yeah its true ! Now that i think about it my eyes tend to catch some style even though the technique is not perfect. i think im fond of a nostalgia retro anime feeling and gorish stuff, but i wouldnt know how to describe "nostalgia gorish retro anime" because what i put in this category is objectively very different in style... just things that make me feel sad in a good way. I guess art is really subjective huh lol. What i do know is that its precisely what i DONT draw ? i like my art but i wonder why i have a style i wouldnt look at twice myself lol

And yeah so true for the popular style ! when i made an account here a few weeks ago at first i thought most people commissioned the same artist to do their avatar because from afar it looked really similar, i was 'fck its one lucky artist' lmao. but actually its different ppl, i guess its whats popular now ! I do like this style but its true that seeing it everywhere makes it seems a little boring i guess.
For the fanart yeah totally, but i guess im the same lol. I think its because its characters you already know so you dont have to invest time to get to know and appreciate new characters. It's like fanfiction ; its less emotionally draining to go back to stuff you already know instead of diving into an original work. But yeah it can be frustrating when youre trying to get yourself known lol
 

Klox

Rollling Tumbling along
Technically good does not mean interesting. There's entire museums of photo-level portraits that no one really cares about. We see artists who do amazingly life like ball point pen art, but no one is really flocking to commission them. The reason being that what's in the art and the story it tells is far more important than the fundamental quality.

So when you see a "good" piece get less attention than a "bad" it's because the good piece lacked something that made it interesting to look at.

Focus more on the story your art says than how classically "good" it might be.

That and, despite posting for 3 years now, you can never predict what the masses will like.
"Technically good does not mean interesting" is a perfect way to put it yeah ! i was browsing the critique section of this forum and a lot of people's advice were essentially "train by improving your technique instead of working on your style". I do agree thats its important to perfect your technique if you feel like it's limiting you in a certain way and you cant represent what you want, but if we're being honest there're ton of "good" artist here and even if your technique becomes really good, theres probably someone already doing it better than you. so yeah i agree than the most important thing is to show something thatll have your unique twist and would catch people eyes. Knwowing what will catch peoples eyes though... thats another story lol

i agree for the story part ! How would you convey a story with a single image ? i mean in a comic its "easy" because theres dialogues, multiple images that represents a sequence of action, etc. But in a single image ?
 

Klox

Rollling Tumbling along
As for me and the Sonic style. Well let's just say I used to be a big Nintendo fan and I was into that sort of cartoony art style, (even into games like Advance Wars). However, I got into the Sonic style when my friend told me about Silver and Blaze. Suddenly characters that to me were boring in Sonic Heroes, now all of the sudden had superpowers and Sonic 06's story was dark enough for me. I've tried the style a long time ago back in 2010 but I couldn't get it right, a lot of my early characters were admittedly very silly and cringy, (Scylla over there was a big yellow cat <-) but I've read the Archie Sonic style and I sort of liked the whole psuedo-seriousness of the comics. To me Mobians as a species are fun to make, simply because they're a blend of human like features with anthro species, often with superpowers,

Another aspect is that Sonic style can be "serious", Shadow can use guns, and a lot of Egg Empire soldiers in the comics use weaponry. I like that it's a nice meia between cartoony and seriousness. Sonic style can be very varied, but it almost is anime style mixed with Mickey Mouse.

Oh and I have autism, so that may have something to do with it.
so for you it's a really specific style that you love ! it's true sonic is a style thats really easy to recognize and to play with. I guess its the same for me and the fact i like nostalgic retro anime style, i think it makes me remember when i was younger and was be totally engrossed by a story my older siblings had on a pirated cd lol. and dont say your art was cringy or silly, i think its great to create something out of love no matter what ! if you had fun doing it its the most important part ♦️


Personnaly, I'm more drawn to pieces that tell something, either a meaning or a story, because it's much more interesting to look at and wonder what the characters are doing, what is unfolding. Tough I cannot say that i don't fav pieces that just "look nice" ( because they do look nice in my opinion and it'd be a shame not to fav ).

The things that interest me the most are pieces that invoke inspiration or reflection on one's self, like those that inspire a dream like sensation and loses you into this spiraling abyss of wonder and amazement. But also those with a soothing and calm atmosphere that relax the soul and mind. Still-life and landscape paintings have that effect for me, reminding me what the human mind has to offer in terms of beautiful imagery, and also this wonderful rock we live on. Especially relating to impressionism and its derivatives, just imagining the thought process of the artist and the time consuming process of picking each colour for one object, to create a wonderful piece.
Also, I find art involving moving objects or characters very interesting to look at. Like said above, when it tells something, it's really cool, even with difformed anatomy, or weird perspective ( not weird as in wrong but as uncommon ) If it conveys movement and feeling, I find it awesome !

On the subject of character depiction ( especially furry art ), I find interesting the details that make the piece "pop-out", like the choice in shading, colour palette or general feeling of the picture. particularly, I tend to drift towards cell-shading with crisp line-art, "vibrant" colours ( tints of green and red are the good stuff ), and epic/proud or happy feeling exuding from the piece.
Just realized i can answer to multiple people at the same time lol.
Yeah agree for the story ! when you mean story, you mean like putting little details that suggest a story behind the character ?
i get what you mean, im super fond of dream like sensation too 'w' Its unrelated to furry, but if you like lofi music, i love the mix of bloom by j^p^n and the tumbnail image of shinji from evangelion. i dont know why, probably the pastel layer put on top of the image and the sad music together, but its an instant match for me.

for the story thing i think mb thats why artists who do comics gets popular ! i checked a few comics on fa that were very popular (i loved it too) and when i went to check the rest of their gallery, i was surprised to see not so many submissions. From what i saw, it looked like they didnt do a lot of stuff before, decided to make a comic and became known in the process. But maybe im missing pieces too ( like maybe they were famous before on another platform and their base followed them, i dont know).

BTW whats cell shading ? i searched for it and from what i understood its like clean shadow line, at the opposite of soft and gradual shadowing ?
 

Borophagus Metropolis

The last prehistoric floofy woof of FAF
It is hard to pinpoint. I suppose semi-real, or surreal. A bit cartoony is okay. You'd have to look at my FA favourites to get the idea.
I suppose attention to detail is important to me. Also, nice butts.
 
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Stray Cat Terry

테리 / 特里 / テリー
I sense there're certain composition ratio(?) that drives me in. I... still can't manage to summarize that in words.

That aside, as a creator myself(artist), I also used to try and follow what other 'idol' artists tend to do most--which is once upon a time. Now, I just draw in whatever way I want it, cuz I believe that's more 'creative'(in bad term, maybe deviant).

I'm not trying to say being similar is bad or anything, it's just for me--I do me, people do people, no need to force one's way on the other--and if I wanna stand out in the crowds, I gotta be 'unique'. So far, I have heard more people telling me I have a unique style, than those saying it's familiar. While that also tells me I'm not quite 'involved' in mainstream, I'm satisfied how I'm not one of the 'mainstream'.

At this point it seems my goal is different to what we observe out there... So why did I change into current flow? Cuz it was hella headache to keep track on what people like, and there's always someone who enjoys my creations as how they are(while they may not be many, comparably). And if I can already be satisfied on my art, there really is no pressure. UwU

Uh.. hopefully I didn't get too off-tracks?

Back to the preference of viewers, I guess it's really up to individuals... I personally would just attend college studies rather than studying people's view on different arts..
 
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Ziggy Schlacht

Hasn't figured out this "straight" business
"Technically good does not mean interesting" is a perfect way to put it yeah ! i was browsing the critique section of this forum and a lot of people's advice were essentially "train by improving your technique instead of working on your style". I do agree thats its important to perfect your technique if you feel like it's limiting you in a certain way and you cant represent what you want, but if we're being honest there're ton of "good" artist here and even if your technique becomes really good, theres probably someone already doing it better than you. so yeah i agree than the most important thing is to show something thatll have your unique twist and would catch people eyes. Knwowing what will catch peoples eyes though... thats another story lol

i agree for the story part ! How would you convey a story with a single image ? i mean in a comic its "easy" because theres dialogues, multiple images that represents a sequence of action, etc. But in a single image ?
Story isn't story in the sense of a comic, so much as the "context" of the picture. Dude standing on a matte color probably doesn't have a lot of detail. Boy and girl sitting at a table, eating. We know they're connected somehow. Well, they're dressed nicely so maybe it's a date. Ah, they're both nervous so it's probably a first date. It's outdoors and sunny and they're in light clothing, so likely summer-ish time frame. There's a backpack on the ground, it's near the girl, so clearly it's hers. Lots of stuff in it, looks like books and all that. So she's probably a student. There's alchohol on the table so they're likely in college.

From there, two college kids decide to go on a lunch date for their first date during the summer. Since she has a backpack and he doesn't, perhaps he's off and she's taking summer classes. Maybe he works during the summer. Neither of them must have anything important this afternoon though if they're day drinking.

Just by setting and items in the picture, you get a "story," but none of that was spelled out.
 

moutymoo

Member
Just realized i can answer to multiple people at the same time lol.
Yeah agree for the story ! when you mean story, you mean like putting little details that suggest a story behind the character ?
i get what you mean, im super fond of dream like sensation too 'w' Its unrelated to furry, but if you like lofi music, i love the mix of bloom by j^p^n and the tumbnail image of shinji from evangelion. i dont know why, probably the pastel layer put on top of the image and the sad music together, but its an instant match for me.

for the story thing i think mb thats why artists who do comics gets popular ! i checked a few comics on fa that were very popular (i loved it too) and when i went to check the rest of their gallery, i was surprised to see not so many submissions. From what i saw, it looked like they didnt do a lot of stuff before, decided to make a comic and became known in the process. But maybe im missing pieces too ( like maybe they were famous before on another platform and their base followed them, i dont know).

BTW whats cell shading ? i searched for it and from what i understood its like clean shadow line, at the opposite of soft and gradual shadowing ?
Not only details that suggest a deeper meaning but to accompany the painting with some kind of written material, context or prose. When i draw something relating to my characters and my fantasy setting to a whole, I personally aim to indicate to the viewer that this is not only some neat setting with two or more upright walking dogs/cats/bears etc... that look cool and have sweet expressions and everything but that there is an entire society, story, contex to the image, and I almost always post the piece with some written text to indicate context or some point of view i'd like the viewer to take into perspective. Sure, by giving context and written clues I limit the interpretation that the viewer gets from the picture, but it also opens new room for other ideas and let them wonder how this world is built, or at least I try to.

Yeah i should get around to listening to more lo-fi when i stumble upon it on YT, the only thing is that I'm too deep in Castlevania music rn i can't escape the thrill it gives me <_<

That's what I said ! Giving people characters to relate/ learn about (from) almost always makes for a more interesting artpiece ! It really helps you feel how another character feels, and by extension, how the author feels or thinks. I know in a way some people would say that they don't give a fck about how others feel or think, but aren't we naturally drawn, by the thirst for knowledge, to the opinions of others ? We thrive for the insight on other peoples thoughts, and being able to know about the feelings of a fictional character that is written like a living person really feeds into the escapist sentiment most of us share ! Many times it allows us to see the world through a different lens and in a way learn from this view. Comics are very successful this way because they provide a way for the viewer to experience the story from a "third person view" that both tell what's going on and how the heroes/ characters react to the story, with visual elements or dialogue that tell enough to the viewer for him not to be completly lost ! ( unlike in novels or books wich I despise because I'm too dull as a human to get the subtilities behind the dozens of figures of speech that contain the hidden meaning or context obscured by a litteral wall of text). It's not for any reason that some call Graphic novels the "ninth artform" of modern day.

Yeah what i call cell shading is the use of sharp edged shadows and lights that in the end create a cartoony, unrealistic look to the picture, I find the lack of smooth shadows more appealing to look at. Some examples of this shading technique that I can think of are The Legend of Zelda: Botw and the Wind Waker, and all of the subsequent Nintendo DS zelda games use it !
 

Pomorek

Antelope-Addicted Hyena
Focusing too much on visual quality but not on content or story is an easy trap to fall into. Been there, done that. Only more recently (like, three years?... it's "recently" for me cause I'm really slow with my art) I'm trying to give more attention to what a given work actually tells the viewer.

But there seems to be something else too. My own observation is that the (more or less) cartoony style is really the mainstream in the furry community, while anything else is just a niche. It's only obvious and natural, after all the fandom is largely based on a continuation of people's interest with cartoons into their adult age. But it does leave me as a bit of an outsider with my experiments into realism.


[ Shameless plug time, if you're interested in realistic take on furry art, I have a lot of it. ]
 

Klox

Rollling Tumbling along
It is hard to pinpoint. I suppose semi-real, or surreal. A bit cartoony is okay. You'd have to look at my FA favourites to get the idea.
I suppose attention to detail is important to me. Also, nice butts.
Of course, nice butts. I see youre a person of refined taste.
I sense there're certain composition ratio(?) that drives me in. I... still can't manage to summarize that in words.

That aside, as a creator myself(artist), I also used to try and follow what other 'idol' artists tend to do most--which is once upon a time. Now, I just draw in whatever way I want it, cuz I believe that's more 'creative'(in bad term, maybe deviant).

I'm not trying to say being similar is bad or anything, it's just for me--I do me, people do people, no need to force one's way on the other--and if I wanna stand out in the crowds, I gotta be 'unique'. So far, I have heard more people telling me I have a unique style, than those saying it's familiar. While that also tells me I'm not quite 'involved' in mainstream, I'm satisfied how I'm not one of the 'mainstream'.

At this point it seems my goal is different to what we observe out there... So why did I change into current flow? Cuz it was hella headache to keep track on what people like, and there's always someone who enjoys my creations as how they are(while they may not be many, comparably). And if I can already be satisfied on my art, there's really no pressure. UwU

Uh.. hopefully I didn't get too off-tracks?

Back to the preference of viewers, I guess it's really up to individuals... I personally would just attend college studies rather than studying people's view on different arts..
There re not track to follow haha ! I guess it is difficult to try to imitate mainstrram style if its not your thing, or any other style for the matter. I also tried to and it was such a bother i didnt even finish the art lol.
I like your art its really cute, and impressive when you know its done by phone

Story isn't story in the sense of a comic, so much as the "context" of the picture. Dude standing on a matte color probably doesn't have a lot of detail. Boy and girl sitting at a table, eating. We know they're connected somehow. Well, they're dressed nicely so maybe it's a date. Ah, they're both nervous so it's probably a first date. It's outdoors and sunny and they're in light clothing, so likely summer-ish time frame. There's a backpack on the ground, it's near the girl, so clearly it's hers. Lots of stuff in it, looks like books and all that. So she's probably a student. There's alchohol on the table so they're likely in college.

From there, two college kids decide to go on a lunch date for their first date during the summer. Since she has a backpack and he doesn't, perhaps he's off and she's taking summer classes. Maybe he works during the summer. Neither of them must have anything important this afternoon though if they're day drinking.

Just by setting and items in the picture, you get a "story," but none of that was spelled out.
Ooh i see ! Expressions and little details do make a pictures more alive. Its nice to know there are people who look art so closely !!

Not only details that suggest a deeper meaning but to accompany the painting with some kind of written material, context or prose. When i draw something relating to my characters and my fantasy setting to a whole, I personally aim to indicate to the viewer that this is not only some neat setting with two or more upright walking dogs/cats/bears etc... that look cool and have sweet expressions and everything but that there is an entire society, story, contex to the image, and I almost always post the piece with some written text to indicate context or some point of view i'd like the viewer to take into perspective. Sure, by giving context and written clues I limit the interpretation that the viewer gets from the picture, but it also opens new room for other ideas and let them wonder how this world is built, or at least I try to.

Yeah i should get around to listening to more lo-fi when i stumble upon it on YT, the only thing is that I'm too deep in Castlevania music rn i can't escape the thrill it gives me <_<

That's what I said ! Giving people characters to relate/ learn about (from) almost always makes for a more interesting artpiece ! It really helps you feel how another character feels, and by extension, how the author feels or thinks. I know in a way some people would say that they don't give a fck about how others feel or think, but aren't we naturally drawn, by the thirst for knowledge, to the opinions of others ? We thrive for the insight on other peoples thoughts, and being able to know about the feelings of a fictional character that is written like a living person really feeds into the escapist sentiment most of us share ! Many times it allows us to see the world through a different lens and in a way learn from this view. Comics are very successful this way because they provide a way for the viewer to experience the story from a "third person view" that both tell what's going on and how the heroes/ characters react to the story, with visual elements or dialogue that tell enough to the viewer for him not to be completly lost ! ( unlike in novels or books wich I despise because I'm too dull as a human to get the subtilities behind the dozens of figures of speech that contain the hidden meaning or context obscured by a litteral wall of text). It's not for any reason that some call Graphic novels the "ninth artform" of modern day.

Yeah what i call cell shading is the use of sharp edged shadows and lights that in the end create a cartoony, unrealistic look to the picture, I find the lack of smooth shadows more appealing to look at. Some examples of this shading technique that I can think of are The Legend of Zelda: Botw and the Wind Waker, and all of the subsequent Nintendo DS zelda games use it !
Mixing media and writing a text with an image is cool yeah ! I dont see much of it honestly but id like to.
Id love to create a comic for the exact same reason you said, but honestly it seems so hard not even from a technique point of view, but knowing how to position characters, provoc emotions etc. Sigh...
Focusing too much on visual quality but not on content or story is an easy trap to fall into. Been there, done that. Only more recently (like, three years?... it's "recently" for me cause I'm really slow with my art) I'm trying to give more attention to what a given work actually tells the viewer.

But there seems to be something else too. My own observation is that the (more or less) cartoony style is really the mainstream in the furry community, while anything else is just a niche. It's only obvious and natural, after all the fandom is largely based on a continuation of people's interest with cartoons into their adult age. But it does leave me as a bit of an outsider with my experiments into realism.


[ Shameless plug time, if you're interested in realistic take on furry art, I have a lot of it. ]
I feel like the top of the top (like 500$ comm artist lol) are realistic-ish, and the popular but more approachable are mpre cartoonish. But maybe thats just what i saw until now, fa is a big place haha
Your 3d models are amazing !
 

nerv

Member
I see the same almost-anime-but-not-really homogenous PC art all over my feeds every day so the things that stand out are the exact opposite of that. To me, its sharp lines and intense vibrant colors with good contrast. That and unique subject matter. Like, the other day I found this one fetish FA profile (OKAY HERE ME OUT ON THIS) and the fetish is long tongues. The way he drew the tongue kind of reminded me of an abstract piece of outsider art with actual artistic merit to it instead of what it really was.... another one in the spank bank for some weirdo in his basement. Idk. Weird shit always stands out to me. An art teacher once told me that the best paintings are the ones that capture your attention for more than 5 seconds and stick with you. Usually those paintings are disturbing as fuck for me. I think of HR Giger more than Vincent Van Gogh that's for sure.

... also I tried to find the tongue dude but I didn't add his stuff to my favs, I just commented and told him I thought his stuff was cool UGHHH
 
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