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Devastating internet censorship plan (new SOPA) to be put in practice starting July!

CannonFodder

Resistance is futile! If 0 ohm
Re: Devastating internet censorship plan (new SOPA) to be put in practice starting Ju

-long post-
I know most of the time the people don't go to prison and instead wind up in civil lawsuits. The problem with that is how much the people on average to have is just ridiculous. A hundred grand doesn't sound like a lot to companies, but for average joe that amount will ruin them for years to come.

As for the amount of money they actually do lose to copyright infringment I doubt we'll ever hear a accurate estimate cause like you said they probably do know the actual amount, but blow it out of the water.

Actually speaking of loses there was a slap fight over Dead Space 3 in three frags left about how EA was claiming they were going to have to rake in 5 million copies to break even and how with the cost of production and everything normally they would have only needed 1.7 million copies. The most likely explanation is they blew a fuck ton of money on useless shit.
If companies would stop being so paranoid about trying to stop "omg teh pirators r evil" and trying to use all sorts of wasteful expenditures when they clearly have no effect on piracy then maybe they wouldn't have such a amount of loses. Granted regardless there is going to be loses due to people not buying, but it's like trying to stop a brush fire by burning down the whole forest.

So yeah you do have a point, BUT they're trying to regain their loses to piracy by doing scare tactics to try and stop piracy that put them even further in the red.



Companies just don't know when to cut their loses.
 

Echo Wolf

Active Member
Re: Devastating internet censorship plan (new SOPA) to be put in practice starting Ju

I remember reading something in a big important bill of rights or something that protected against this sort of unnecessary searching. Hmm, I guess it was all just in my head everyone knows nothing like that was ever written. Sarcasm.
 

Term_the_Schmuck

Most Interesting Man on FAF
Terms merged post

I remember reading something in a big important bill of rights or something that protected against this sort of unnecessary searching. Hmm, I guess it was all just in my head everyone knows nothing like that was ever written. Sarcasm.

Um, since when has the Bill of Rights applied to anything other than the federal government?

The only thing being discussed here are companies engaging with people who willingly deal agree to certain terms to use said company's service.

Before we start whipping out the "my American Rights" argument it might be nice if you learned a thing or two about them.

I know most of the time the people don't go to prison and instead wind up in civil lawsuits. The problem with that is how much the people on average to have is just ridiculous. A hundred grand doesn't sound like a lot to companies, but for average joe that amount will ruin them for years to come.

100 grand is 100 grand. You should see how difficult it is to get new equipment or send something out to be fixed in some of the places I've worked. Just because something appears to have a shitload of money doesn't mean that they do or that they are willing to throw it at everything.

Actually speaking of loses there was a slap fight over Dead Space 3 in three frags left about how EA was claiming they were going to have to rake in 5 million copies to break even and how with the cost of production and everything normally they would have only needed 1.7 million copies. The most likely explanation is they blew a fuck ton of money on useless shit.
If companies would stop being so paranoid about trying to stop "omg teh pirators r evil" and trying to use all sorts of wasteful expenditures when they clearly have no effect on piracy then maybe they wouldn't have such a amount of loses. Granted regardless there is going to be loses due to people not buying, but it's like trying to stop a brush fire by burning down the whole forest.

That 5 million figure has little to nothing to do with any sort of money they use to help combat piracy. This is likely more due to developers demanding higher payouts for their work, advertising costs, overhead and the sort. Same deal happened with COD. You have a franchise that has become extremely popular and has sold well. Now people want to make more because they feel they're worth it, sending the budget up higher. Not to mention separate teams workin on things like multiplayer which didn't exist for the previous game, but that's for another thread. Point is, frivolous spending on anti-piracy campaigns have little to do with rising costs of production.

Companies just don't know when to cut their loses.

And certain people just don't want to give up the ability to get professionally created content for free because "my rights".
 
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Lukar

Durrgon
Re: Devastating internet censorship plan (new SOPA) to be put in practice starting Ju

Two words: bull crap. In the past, despite piracy, companies have still been able to make money off of their products and services. People can illegally obtain millions of movies and television shows, but does that mean that services such as Netflix aren't raking in the dough? Hell no. As long as companies and organizations make sure their output is of good quality, people will still pay for it, even if some would rather go the cheap route in obtaining it.

I'm sorry Hollywood isn't able to afford their hoverbikes made out of gold this year, but I doubt their "losses" are anything more than them being butthurt.
 

Echo Wolf

Active Member
Re: Terms merged post

Um, since when has the Bill of Rights applied to anything other than the federal government?

The only thing being discussed here are companies engaging with people who willingly deal agree to certain terms to use said company's service.

Before we start whipping out the "my American Rights" argument it might be nice if you learned a thing or two about them.

I didn't read the article to closely were it said that users must agree to this. My thought process here was if they are going to be policing the internet without the users consent and threatening consequences for actions the federal government would be somehow involved to allow this. Anyway I can see major legal/ethical debates, court cases and most likely boycotts arising from this if they really start doing this, which I highly doubt but I've been surprised before. O' just a note I studied in some law classes a while back so it's not like I have no idea what I am talking about, I just have a bad habit of reading to quickly sometimes.
 

CannonFodder

Resistance is futile! If 0 ohm
Re: Terms merged post

100 grand is 100 grand. You should see how difficult it is to get new equipment or send something out to be fixed in some of the places I've worked. Just because something appears to have a shitload of money doesn't mean that they do or that they are willing to throw it at everything.

And certain people just don't want to give up the ability to get professionally created content for free because "my rights".
Actually my point wasn't that a couple hundred grand isn't a ton of money, my point was however that if you sue a company for a couple hundred grand they can survive that financially. However if you sue your average american a couple hundred grand their life is pretty much over.

I'm not arguing about the morality of copyright infringment, I'm arguing that treated people like companies or companies like people under the law is ridiculous and that suing people for the same amount of money one would sue a company is extreme.
 

thoron

Member
Re: Devastating internet censorship plan (new SOPA) to be put in practice starting Ju

As a whole, I'm failing to see any real sources being used for these articles. I can't even find any real info on Greg Sandoval, the guy who wrote the Cnet article other than that he's a senior writer for them. The fact that his article isn't able to give any real sources to the claim also makes it weak and not very credible. There's a good chance that this will mostly focus on torrent sites if such measures are put into places. Even then it will be hard for ISPs to tell what is pirated and what isn't.
 

Randy-Darkshade

Bike riding squirrel thing.
Re: Devastating internet censorship plan (new SOPA) to be put in practice starting Ju

If my signature being disturbing to you (for just further speaking out against censorship on a smaller scale) is reason to not see the facts and dangers in the articles I linked, no offense but there's a serious problem with your basic senses and understanding.

And there is a serious problem with you thinking Cub Porn is okay. I'm more worried about the likes of you practically promoting pedophillia by saying what your sig says.

As for the topic, So? If people weren't cheapskates and pirated shit so much this kinda thing WOULDN'T be happening because there wouldn't be a pirating issue. I mean, a lot of you are artists and most of you hate when people steal YOUR art and claim it as theirs. So just think how people feel when others obtain their creations illegally.
 

Mircea

Active Member
Re: Devastating internet censorship plan (new SOPA) to be put in practice starting Ju

And there is a serious problem with you thinking Cub Porn is okay. I'm more worried about the likes of you practically promoting pedophillia by saying what your sig says.

And I'm worried about people taking decisions who think that if they dislike something, it should be banned. You're crazy if you think I promote pedophilia... I would have said the same about ANY type of artwork were it banned or people trolled over it, just because it's unpopular. If some furs and admins felt that cub art is the best genre of artwork to pick on, take offense over and ban, that's what I will defend until it will be free like any other type of art. I stopped posting about it, but my signature will stay.

Now please, let's get back on topic. It's nearly impossible to post a thread on this forum without it deviating into something totally unrelated, pointless, and that derails it entirely.
 

KigRatel

Colaholic
Re: Devastating internet censorship plan (new SOPA) to be put in practice starting Ju

This thread is depressing.
 

Randy-Darkshade

Bike riding squirrel thing.
Re: Devastating internet censorship plan (new SOPA) to be put in practice starting Ju

And I'm worried about people taking decisions who think that if they dislike something, it should be banned. You're crazy if you think I promote pedophilia... I would have said the same about ANY type of artwork were it banned or people trolled over it, just because it's unpopular. If some furs and admins felt that cub art is the best genre of artwork to pick on, take offense over and ban, that's what I will defend until it will be free like any other type of art. I stopped posting about it, but my signature will stay.

Now please, let's get back on topic. It's nearly impossible to post a thread on this forum without it deviating into something totally unrelated, pointless, and that derails it entirely.

Change your sig then. There is no way it will be unbanned from FA because the law in the state FA is hosted in dictates it's illegal as the law in my country does.

Also if you support such art then you have no morals.
 

Mircea

Active Member
Re: Devastating internet censorship plan (new SOPA) to be put in practice starting Ju

This thread is depressing.

Agreed. If we lived in a normal world where people actually had rights, and interest groups wouldn't be allowed to f--k all of us over and up-front with laws and practices like this, threads like this wouldn't be needed. That's the depressing part for me.
 

Randy-Darkshade

Bike riding squirrel thing.
Re: Devastating internet censorship plan (new SOPA) to be put in practice starting Ju

Agreed. If we lived in a normal world where people actually had rights, and interest groups wouldn't be allowed to f--k all of us over and up-front with laws and practices like this, threads like this wouldn't be needed. That's the depressing part for me.

It's not a stupid law. Granted they are going about it the wrong way, but as I said earlier (which you completely ignored to take your OWN thread off topic) if people didn't pirate music, software and fuck knows what else so damn much there wouldn't be a pirating issue to address and this law most likely wouldn't have come into existence.

We only have ourselves to blame for being too tight fisted and not actually buying the products.

Like I said, artists hate when their artwork gets stolen, so why is pirating any different? Pirating is theft and in this day and age a big issue.
 

KigRatel

Colaholic
Re: Devastating internet censorship plan (new SOPA) to be put in practice starting Ju

Agreed. If we lived in a normal world where people actually had rights, and interest groups wouldn't be allowed to f--k all of us over and up-front with laws and practices like this, threads like this wouldn't be needed. That's the depressing part for me.

You misunderstand me. It's depressing because we're arguing about something that will, like most of these so-called censorship strategies, i'm sure, will end up having no real consequences for anyone and will be forgotten in a few weeks.

It's not a stupid law. Granted they are going about it the wrong way, but as I said earlier (which you completely ignored to take your OWN thread off topic) if people didn't pirate music, software and fuck knows what else so damn much there wouldn't be a pirating issue to address and this law most likely wouldn't have come into existence.

We only have ourselves to blame for being too tight fisted and not actually buying the products.

Like I said, artists hate when their artwork gets stolen, so why is pirating any different? Pirating is theft and in this day and age a big issue.

I think it's just ridiculous how many people refuse to pay for things because "you can get it for free". It's as if they don't care if it's illegal.
 

Mircea

Active Member
Re: Devastating internet censorship plan (new SOPA) to be put in practice starting Ju

Ok. Like I said on another thread, I'm not trying to completely ignore the victims of piracy (I usually consider them rich companies but whatever). Problem is that those people refuse any negotiation with users as well on their end, and their solution is outright destroying the internet (as proven by SOPA). Most of those companies will destroy anything that gets in their way regardless. The whole censorship madness was initially started by Hollywood, which everyone with common sense knows are a mafia. So even if more users "had common sense and shared less stuff", it would not change a lot.

If anyone wants a negotiation on a good way to deal with the problem, as well as good and non-harmful ideas, sure. But if they want to harass users or ban them from the internet, never.
 

Wulfe

Rawr!!
Re: Devastating internet censorship plan (new SOPA) to be put in practice starting Ju

I think it's just ridiculous how many people refuse to pay for things because "you can get it for free". It's as if they don't care if it's illegal.

In terms of music : Far too many bands out there, I myself have close to 4000 songs and with most songs being 99 cents (I think). Thats a lot of money to spend on songs. If you TRULY like the band/artist you will buy their shit regardless just because you want them to continue to do what they do.

In terms of games: Waaaaay too many shitty games being released now. Games are getting shittier and shittier (and shorter) as time goes on, but the price keeps going up. Ill stick to torrenting my single player games and if I really like the game I might consider buying it (Especially if it has DLC...PITA to torrent updates for games)

In terms of movies: Same thing as games, minus the shorter thing. Movies for me are generally a one time deal, I just cant justify spending 15-20 bucks (Not sure if accurate...havent bought one for awhile) for a movie . There are seriously less than a dozen I care to re-watch out of the hundreds I have watched

In terms of programs: Cant speak for this really, I personally think a lot of the stuff is over priced (Photo-shop being 100+ I think?). I dont really think this part of pirating is an issue at all.

Greed is getting worse...All the people who make movies and music and various programs are making a SHIT ton of money still. Will another penny really matter to them? If it really does to them, then they arent doing it because they like to. They do it because they just want the money. Words cannot express my hatred for today's society. Fucking hate people...Money is all that seems to matter to anyone anymore. Im starting to hope the Mayans were right about dec 21st lol.

*end rant*
 

Mircea

Active Member
Re: Devastating internet censorship plan (new SOPA) to be put in practice starting Ju

In terms of music : Far too many bands out there, I myself have close to 4000 songs and with most songs being 99 cents (I think). Thats a lot of money to spend on songs. If you TRULY like the band/artist you will buy their shit regardless just because you want them to continue to do what they do.

In terms of games: Waaaaay too many shitty games being released now. Games are getting shittier and shittier (and shorter) as time goes on, but the price keeps going up. Ill stick to torrenting my single player games and if I really like the game I might consider buying it (Especially if it has DLC...PITA to torrent updates for games)

In terms of movies: Same thing as games, minus the shorter thing. Movies for me are generally a one time deal, I just cant justify spending 15-20 bucks (Not sure if accurate...havent bought one for awhile) for a movie . There are seriously less than a dozen I care to re-watch out of the hundreds I have watched

In terms of programs: Cant speak for this really, I personally think a lot of the stuff is over priced (Photo-shop being 100+ I think?). I dont really think this part of pirating is an issue at all.

Greed is getting worse...All the people who make movies and music and various programs are making a SHIT ton of money still. Will another penny really matter to them? If it really does to them, then they arent doing it because they like to. They do it because they just want the money. Words cannot express my hatred for today's society. Fucking hate people...Money is all that seems to matter to anyone anymore. Im starting to hope the Mayans were right about dec 21st lol.

*end rant*

Really good points there. Well yeah, I admit I've never been one to be against piracy, and for the most part I support it. I'm talking about free distribution of media, not pirating things to re-sell them for money (that's very ugly and wrong). In short, I don't believe that sharing some bytes makes anyone a monster or a bad person.

Now I do believe that companies which need to make money to live need to be considered, and am not a fan of simply stealing stuff without any common sense. Most of the torrents I find however always encourage the user to buy it if they like it. And personally, it's a bit hard to imagine that this is destroying the entertainment industry... which went on for years and is still very rich the way things are now. Hollywood are billionaires... how on Earth can they complain they are suffering so badly?

This has always been a black to gray area I believe. But regardless of what people think of piracy (I try not to be closed minded on this debate), me and most users will not tolerate anyone being either harassed for what they do on the internet, and especially having their internet cut off. For instance, DRM is a concept which disgusts me... but if you wanna implement it in your works that's your business, and an ok way to deal with your problem. Other non-harmful ways could be tried too, if those people could imagine any alternative but destruction.

Anything that can be read by a computer can be copied however. That was always the case, always will be the case, and trying to destroy the internet to prevent it will never be tolerated nor even help the problem. Personally, what they are doing only makes me want to pirate things out of spite. Seriously... I don't even run StrongDC++ nightly like I used to (for performance reasons mind you), but this is making me want to get a database of all movies songs and games and share them like hell now.
 

Ikrit

I'm fired up!
Re: Devastating internet censorship plan (new SOPA) to be put in practice starting Ju

>2012
>not using free open source programs
 

Mircea

Active Member
Re: Devastating internet censorship plan (new SOPA) to be put in practice starting Ju

>2012
>not using free open source programs

I'm a big open source fan, and try to use open source programs whenever possible. Most of the games I play at this day are, since I'm no longer into commercial ones with some exceptions. Same for programs... but I still listen to commercial music otherwise. Given many people stick with open source alternatives, it's even scarier to imagine they too might be affected by all this censorship madness at some point.
 

Term_the_Schmuck

Most Interesting Man on FAF
Re: Devastating internet censorship plan (new SOPA) to be put in practice starting Ju

Actually my point wasn't that a couple hundred grand isn't a ton of money, my point was however that if you sue a company for a couple hundred grand they can survive that financially. However if you sue your average american a couple hundred grand their life is pretty much over.

That's an absolutely ridiculous idea. "People should be awarded damages based on how much they're worth." So if say a doctor is personally not very rich in a private practice and I want to file a malpractice suit against them for something they did, theoretically, under your standards, I shouldn't be awarded the damages necessary that would cover undoing whatever he did to me because "oh well he'll be inconvienenced." Thats not how these things work and if the company in question can realistically prove thousands of dollars of damages cause by someone, then they absolutely should go free that money. The question is now if they have effectively justified the figures they come up with, which we've both said we can't say with any certainty that they have.

In terms of music : Far too many bands out there, I myself have close to 4000 songs and with most songs being 99 cents (I think). Thats a lot of money to spend on songs. If you TRULY like the band/artist you will buy their shit regardless just because you want them to continue to do what they do.

Bands themselves make a majority of their money from public appearances, concerts, and merchandise. Again, the people hurt are the producers, technicians, and everyone else who would fall under the overheard of producing the studio album.

In terms of games: Waaaaay too many shitty games being released now. Games are getting shittier and shittier (and shorter) as time goes on, but the price keeps going up. Ill stick to torrenting my single player games and if I really like the game I might consider buying it (Especially if it has DLC...PITA to torrent updates for games)

This is all a matter of subjective opinion. I might let it slide if there was an objective way to determine a lower level of quality that the mass of people who play video games would agree exists. But since there exists no such objective stat, then this comes down to you sayin "but I dont waaaaaannnnnnnnaaaaa."

In terms of movies: Same thing as games, minus the shorter thing. Movies for me are generally a one time deal, I just cant justify spending 15-20 bucks (Not sure if accurate...havent bought one for awhile) for a movie . There are seriously less than a dozen I care to re-watch out of the hundreds I have watched

Again, how does this justify not spending that 15 bucks for going to see the movie? Because there's several things you're paying for when you see a movie: the ushers salaries, the janitors salaries, the experience of a large screen with surround sound or IMAX, etc. Do you believe people just work for free in the entertainment industry?

In terms of programs: Cant speak for this really, I personally think a lot of the stuff is over priced (Photo-shop being 100+ I think?). I dont really think this part of pirating is an issue at all.

Were you there for the development of those programs? Do you realize the man hours, the technological costs, and everything else that goes into creating a program like Photoshop, Final Cut, After Effects, Pro Tools, and so on? No? Then deal with it. Unlike with most things in your life, developing software hasn't been outsourced to another country where people work for peanuts if they're lucky. Men and women with mortgages, families, and their own want of entertainment work on these things, but oh because you think it's overpriced fuck them, amirite? Because clearly its all about "me, me, me."

Greed is getting worse...All the people who make movies and music and various programs are making a SHIT ton of money still. Will another penny really matter to them? If it really does to them, then they arent doing it because they like to. They do it because they just want the money. Words cannot express my hatred for today's society. Fucking hate people...Money is all that seems to matter to anyone anymore. Im starting to hope the Mayans were right about dec 21st lol.

"I want material things without paying for them, and they're the ones who are greedy."

Just the hypocrisy involved here is mind-numbing. Yes, because you acting selfish is totally justified by you're opinion that the faceless corporation is greedy. That same corporation that clearly doesn't have normal people working for them who rightfully deserve their money and credit for the work they do.

Do me a favor, the next time you play a video game or watch a movie, stick through the credits and see how many people are involved in a given production. Then tell me that Sally Jones on the B Crew or Joe Smith working grip don't deserve their getting paid, because they're clearly fat cats trying to bleed you of your money by contributing to budget costs.

But hey, they're faceless names to you, so who gives a fuck about their ability to make a living, right? The only thing that matters is your ability to play, watch and listen to whatever you want without paying for it because "I deserve it."
 
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Wulfe

Rawr!!
Re: Devastating internet censorship plan (new SOPA) to be put in practice starting Ju

Not going to deny the fact I am a hypocrite. I do want shit for free, who doesnt? But corporations clearly dont give a flying fuck about "us" so why should I give a fuck about them? Just going to state that I have not torrented photoshop or any other of those costly programs just because I have no use for them and most likely never will. And about the movie thing, I hardly go to the theaters, not because its too much money. But because I simply have no interest in the films that come out. If a film catches my interest I will go pay the 15 bucks and see it, but I have only ever gone to the theater with someone. If Im not going with anyone I just wont go at all and wait for it to come out.

Another thing that makes no sense to me, bands release music(videos) and put them onto youtube, yes? Its not exactly rocket science to just copy the video and save it to your hard drive. I assume they are smart enough to realize this. They arent exactly encouraging pirating, but they arent helping the cause against it either.

All that aside, are you defending this whole SOPA/ACTA shit? Or did you just want to rip into me? Honestly cant tell, if its the latter then thats okay lol
 

Kit H. Ruppell

Exterminieren! Exterminieren!
Re: Devastating internet censorship plan (new SOPA) to be put in practice starting Ju

The majority of the shit that the entertainment industry tries to push isn't really worth paying much for I think. Just turn on the radio, tune to your local '(s)hit' station, and you'll hear what I mean.
 

Xenke

Member
Re: Devastating internet censorship plan (new SOPA) to be put in practice starting Ju

But corporations clearly dont give a flying fuck about "us" so why should I give a fuck about them?

I don't care an iota for you, can I steal your shit?
 
E

Elim Garak

Guest
Re: Devastating internet censorship plan (new SOPA) to be put in practice starting Ju

Not as bad as http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communications_Capabilities_Development_Programme
Also http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ECHELON is always watching, though internet generally doesn't move through satellites et al, only for the few satellites internet users, so we aren't in danger by that.
There's also people watching you regardless http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...g-online-dont-want-government-spying-you.html . http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepag...r-news-US-bars-friends-over-Twitter-joke.html

I am sure some governments have programs with certain algorithms running against public twitter and facebook posts. You can do it manually even you want! http://www.kurrently.com/#search/CISPA
 
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