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Devastating internet censorship plan (new SOPA) to be put in practice starting July!

Kit H. Ruppell

Exterminieren! Exterminieren!
Re: Devastating internet censorship plan (new SOPA) to be put in practice starting Ju

Justice will not have been served until the entire RIAA has had its evil eyes plucked.
 

Term_the_Schmuck

Most Interesting Man on FAF
Re: Devastating internet censorship plan (new SOPA) to be put in practice starting Ju

Not going to deny the fact I am a hypocrite. I do want shit for free, who doesnt? But corporations clearly dont give a flying fuck about "us" so why should I give a fuck about them? Just going to state that I have not torrented photoshop or any other of those costly programs just because I have no use for them and most likely never will. And about the movie thing, I hardly go to the theaters, not because its too much money. But because I simply have no interest in the films that come out. If a film catches my interest I will go pay the 15 bucks and see it, but I have only ever gone to the theater with someone. If Im not going with anyone I just wont go at all and wait for it to come out.

So this is suddenly an us vs them thing? I work in broadcasting. I've done work on documentaries, network shows and professional teams. So you because you don't like the faceless entity of the industry I suddenly don't deserve to be paid for the work I do? That me and hundreds of others like me who put in 13 hour days or more, working nights, weekends, and holidays running around trying to push content out to the public, don't deserve any consideration because those of us making $30,000 a year if we're fortunate with very little job security in a fickle industry because of the faceless executive you think doesn't care about you. It's one thing to not spend your money on something you don't want to consume, but to say you don't want to spend money on something and then decide to torrent it because apparently you believe there are no actual people, like me, who work for these companies and you apparently feel you have a right to that content, then you're just as much of an asshole as any executive I could think of. The fact that you acknowledge you're no better then them and maintain what I'm guessing is a clear conscious about the whole thing further shows the inherent entitlement complex people have. That you hold no regard for other people except your selfish desire to be entertained without giving proper compensation for the content you receive.

You try and downplay this by explaining that you don't use programs or see movies, but the fact that you've tried to justify why it'd be fine to pirate these things still speaks ill of you since it appears you're not trying to play devil's advocate but genuinely believe the things you say.

Another thing that makes no sense to me, bands release music(videos) and put them onto youtube, yes? Its not exactly rocket science to just copy the video and save it to your hard drive. I assume they are smart enough to realize this. They arent exactly encouraging pirating, but they arent helping the cause against it either.

They aren't concerned about people down loading the video. They almost always upload to Vevo which always plays ads before the videos. That tied in with the partnership they have with YouTube and the millions of individual views they receive allows them to make money. Where copyright infringement would become and issue would be when and if someone downloads that video and mirrors it to their site with ads enabled or attempts in some other way to repackage that music video into a separate production which doesn't fall under a news or expose genre.

All that aside, are you defending this whole SOPA/ACTA shit? Or did you just want to rip into me? Honestly cant tell, if its the latter then thats okay lol

I'm speaking towards the mentality of the habitual pirate, the guy who justifies why they don't give a company their dollar because they apparently hate them but still feel the need to illegally obtain their content and share it with other people. This has nothing to do with SOPA/PIPA.
 

Rilvor

Formal when angry
Re: Devastating internet censorship plan (new SOPA) to be put in practice starting Ju

I'd like to take this time to point out that if you live in America, there is currently a station set up in a desert here in the USA with the purpose to collect every electronic message no matter what medium it is sent through for decrypting later.

There is no privacy folks, you're fooling yourself to think you'll ever have otherwise.

Edit: Term I'm curious since you seem to be well-informed and well-spoken here, what is your thoughts on people downloading very old content? Think 20-30+ years old.

To give an example, let's say you owned the complete Three Stooges collection on VHS once upon a time. But today you no longer possess that, what do you think if someone then downloads exactly what they had beforehand?
 
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Kit H. Ruppell

Exterminieren! Exterminieren!
Re: Devastating internet censorship plan (new SOPA) to be put in practice starting Ju

I'd like to take this time to point out that if you live in America, there is currently a station set up in a desert here in the USA with the purpose to collect every electronic message no matter what medium it is sent through for decrypting later.

There is no privacy folks, you're fooling yourself to think you'll ever have otherwise.
?
Our government takes all of its shadiest business out to the desert, doesn't it?
But at least that espionage is not controlled by the private sector.
 
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Term_the_Schmuck

Most Interesting Man on FAF
Re: Devastating internet censorship plan (new SOPA) to be put in practice starting Ju

Edit: Term I'm curious since you seem to be well-informed and well-spoken here, what is your thoughts on people downloading very old content? Think 20-30+ years old.

To give an example, let's say you owned the complete Three Stooges collection on VHS once upon a time. But today you no longer possess that, what do you think if someone then downloads exactly what they had beforehand?

I can't remember if this was brought up during the Napster or Kazaa case, but the issue of someone downloading a copy of content they already owned was brought up legally, and I believe they found no issue with someone obtaining a copy of something theyve already paid for, so long as that copy is for personal use and not for copying/distribution. Now as you can tell by the cases I mentioned, this is based off of my memory from about six or seven years ago, so I might be wrong.

Now I do remember bringing up an example of a movie you can view on You Tube right now called "The Naked City" which is a classic film noir flick from the 40s which I highly reccomend viewing. The film itself is a part of the Library of Congress' National Film Registry. Now if it were up to me films like this as well as the 574 others should be available for download for free on the Library of Congress' website for personal viewing as these films were deemed so important as to preserve them for future consumption and maintaining of a cultural history of America, including a couple of Three Stooges films. If a consumer wishes to own a copy they can certainly purchase it from someone who owns the copyright. But if the ferderal government has deemed these films so important that they need to be preserved, then the general public should be allowed to view them on some sort of streaming online service ala Netflix.
 

Mircea

Active Member
Re: Devastating internet censorship plan (new SOPA) to be put in practice starting Ju

I don't care an iota for you, can I steal your shit?

What I think he meant is that if companies attack us internet users the way they do, they can't expect us to suddenly become nicer toward them. And that's something I agree with. It's a practice I call "punching someone in the face while asking them to understand how bad things are for you". You either punch the person, or expect their understanding... doing both is a possible case of mental illness (and alas I seen people who still do it). The moment SOPA and ACTA were out, media companies declared a war of extermination on the internet.

At this point I feel justified to want the same for them. Personally, I want Hollywood (the head of SOPA and likely the biggest payer for this) to be erased off existence. Like you know... whole place to catch fire, meteor to hit, etc. If I had a better server and larger hard drive I'd probably pirate and share whatever I could from them and other companies, simply as part of this war they declared.

So this is suddenly an us vs them thing? I work in broadcasting. I've done work on documentaries, network shows and professional teams. So you because you don't like the faceless entity of the industry I suddenly don't deserve to be paid for the work I do? That me and hundreds of others like me who put in 13 hour days or more, working nights, weekends, and holidays running around trying to push content out to the public, don't deserve any consideration because those of us making $30,000 a year if we're fortunate with very little job security in a fickle industry because of the faceless executive you think doesn't care about you. It's one thing to not spend your money on something you don't want to consume, but to say you don't want to spend money on something and then decide to torrent it because apparently you believe there are no actual people, like me, who work for these companies and you apparently feel you have a right to that content, then you're just as much of an asshole as any executive I could think of. The fact that you acknowledge you're no better then them and maintain what I'm guessing is a clear conscious about the whole thing further shows the inherent entitlement complex people have. That you hold no regard for other people except your selfish desire to be entertained without giving proper compensation for the content you receive.

You try and downplay this by explaining that you don't use programs or see movies, but the fact that you've tried to justify why it'd be fine to pirate these things still speaks ill of you since it appears you're not trying to play devil's advocate but genuinely believe the things you say.


They aren't concerned about people down loading the video. They almost always upload to Vevo which always plays ads before the videos. That tied in with the partnership they have with YouTube and the millions of individual views they receive allows them to make money. Where copyright infringement would become and issue would be when and if someone downloads that video and mirrors it to their site with ads enabled or attempts in some other way to repackage that music video into a separate production which doesn't fall under a news or expose genre.


I'm speaking towards the mentality of the habitual pirate, the guy who justifies why they don't give a company their dollar because they apparently hate them but still feel the need to illegally obtain their content and share it with other people. This has nothing to do with SOPA/PIPA.

I found your post interesting and wanted to give a reply of my own. First of all, although I believe in the idea that everything should be ok to share on the internet, I like it when people use common sense and limit. If a person who deserves money for what they do loses money due to something being copied, it's a case where I expect users to take notice and not be completely ignorant. If they still share, at least link to the artist's page and maybe even encourage donating to them instead. Most of the torrents I find ask people to buy the movie / album after they torrent it. Otherwise, like for anyone who does any work, I would never say you don't deserve money for what you do... that would be wrong. In my case I'm an open-source game developer, which means I spend my time working for free to create nice things for others from "my mom's basement" (I'm 23 and don't have a job yet, student here).

But at the same time, those of us who use the internet in a legit way don't deserve such harassment. And yes, harassment is the right word for some of us. I remember last winter after the SOPA scandal began... I was checking and refreshing posts and news articles, and my stomach was hurting wondering "what will happen to all those websites soon?". Bluntly, I don't believe I did anything wrong to deserve this. They don't understand that the internet isn't some place one polices like their back yard... some have their lives on it. So if they wish to outright destroy us, then let hell reign on both sides if so be it.

In other words, I try not to be closed minded on the matter of anti-piracy. Yeah sure... I download my favorite artist's albums and some 90's anime from Piratebay... and don't believe that makes me a monster. But if they wish to entirely take away what's ours (using the internet in a legit way) then we won't forgive and stand for it. If companies are upset with this, they must think of non-harmful and creative ways to discourage or stop it. DRM for instance is a thing that disgusts me... but it's something people have the right to use if they wish to slow down this process (it cannot be stopped because data can be copied, it's how things are with computers). This isn't fully to defend sharing either... the reason I'm upset is that I'm worried half of the internet might be gone because of censorship being abused the second it's implemented, and knowing the internet will no longer be free.

One more thing: If you work in the entertainment industry, and are among the people who understand this (that despite the pro / anti piracy side doing this to the internet is unacceptable), please try to explain it to other people who work there and maybe convince them to air something about this. Any help is needed to save the internet. Which is not all about piracy and people copying stuff, except a small part of it. Please help fight on this side.
 

Xenke

Member
Re: Devastating internet censorship plan (new SOPA) to be put in practice starting Ju

What I think he meant is that if companies attack us internet users the way they do, they can't expect us to suddenly become nicer toward them.

What internet users are they attacking aside from those that are stealing from them?

Conversely, if they do the opposite and become more lax on this issue, are people going start actually buying the products they were previously stealing? ...Pfffttt, HAHAHA, hell no. People pirate shit because they have no qualms with receiving good without actually paying for them, it has nothing to do with how the companies operate, or if they're 'nice' or not. It boils down to "I want this for free, so I'll take it".

The notion of 'justice' that so many pirates like to portray upon themselves is so laughably off-base that I honestly don't care what the hell ISPs do to them at this point. If you're going to keep enjoying services you refuse to pay for, you can shoulder some risk for it I'm sure.
 

Randy-Darkshade

Bike riding squirrel thing.
Re: Devastating internet censorship plan (new SOPA) to be put in practice starting Ju

What internet users are they attacking aside from those that are stealing from them?

Conversely, if they do the opposite and become more lax on this issue, are people going start actually buying the products they were previously stealing? ...Pfffttt, HAHAHA, hell no. People pirate shit because they have no qualms with receiving good without actually paying for them, it has nothing to do with how the companies operate, or if they're 'nice' or not. It boils down to "I want this for free, so I'll take it".

The notion of 'justice' that so many pirates like to portray upon themselves is so laughably off-base that I honestly don't care what the hell ISPs do to them at this point. If you're going to keep enjoying services you refuse to pay for, you can shoulder some risk for it I'm sure.

I used to DL free stuff but quit long ago. I don't even have any torrent or peer to peer software on here anymore.
 

Duality Jack

Feeling Loki with it.
Re: Devastating internet censorship plan (new SOPA) to be put in practice starting Ju

Our government takes all of its shadiest business out to the desert, doesn't it?
But at least that espionage is not controlled by the private sector.
Uhhh... Yeah keep your hopes up. More subcontracting goes on then you'd really like. Both where you live and where I live.
 

CannonFodder

Resistance is futile! If 0 ohm
Re: Devastating internet censorship plan (new SOPA) to be put in practice starting Ju

That's an absolutely ridiculous idea. "People should be awarded damages based on how much they're worth." So if say a doctor is personally not very rich in a private practice and I want to file a malpractice suit against them for something they did, theoretically, under your standards, I shouldn't be awarded the damages necessary that would cover undoing whatever he did to me because "oh well he'll be inconvienenced." Thats not how these things work and if the company in question can realistically prove thousands of dollars of damages cause by someone, then they absolutely should go free that money. The question is now if they have effectively justified the figures they come up with, which we've both said we can't say with any certainty that they have.
No, I'm saying that people are NOT companies and companies are NOT people therefore under the law you should not treat them the same way.

Do companies have heartbeats? Can they sexually reproduce? No, they can not therefore people are not the same thing as people.
Can you legally sell people for money in the usa? No, you can not therefore people are not the same thing as companies.
 

Mircea

Active Member
Re: Devastating internet censorship plan (new SOPA) to be put in practice starting Ju

What internet users are they attacking aside from those that are stealing from them?

Conversely, if they do the opposite and become more lax on this issue, are people going start actually buying the products they were previously stealing? ...Pfffttt, HAHAHA, hell no. People pirate shit because they have no qualms with receiving good without actually paying for them, it has nothing to do with how the companies operate, or if they're 'nice' or not. It boils down to "I want this for free, so I'll take it".

The notion of 'justice' that so many pirates like to portray upon themselves is so laughably off-base that I honestly don't care what the hell ISPs do to them at this point. If you're going to keep enjoying services you refuse to pay for, you can shoulder some risk for it I'm sure.

I think there are many who care for what is right and wrong as well. Like I said most torrents encourage people to buy the original work too. Also, excluding piracy done for money, why would anyone make websites to give people things for FREE rather than keeping pirated games and the like for themselves to sell? Those who give things away do it so others can enjoy them... sometimes people who can't pay for original stuff. Many put themselves at legal risk to do so. In this case however, I was also talking about pirating things out of spite. Which yes, this makes me want to do... especially with everything Hollywood-made.

As for who it affects, it will affect normal internet users. Do realize that the third-party group who monitors the internet doesn't even know all movies bands albums games and programs. Many will be people who don't even know how the internet works, what people create and what it's used for. Think of those receiving notices just for using bittorrent to download custom Linux distros, or open-source movie projects (yes there are some, the ones I know were made with Blender). There's also Creative Commons music and more. Who could expect the morons that will probably work there to even remotely understand such things?

Then obviously, torrents can also be used with anonymous network layers and proxies, so this won't even help the purpose because anyone with light skills can use TOR or a proxy. Torrent clients will probably come with this feature built-in and activated by default once this misery is passed. So again, this is just hitting on us normal users and making us afraid to use the internet, by using a wrong method that won't even work on the actual problem.

Oh, and about this third-party company doing the tracking: I don't remember who the hell among us told them they could do that. Who gave them the right to spy on our transfers at all? Why should someone I never met in my life know what I'm downloading or not, and my IP address and data? Should I expect them to drink beer with an ISP and laugh at "what weird porn people are downloading" (legit or not)? Nope... still unacceptable, and the moment someone does this they should be in court.

FYI: There's a free open-source program called Wireshark, which lets you spy on what any user in the world is doing by IP address (and what they download and access). Yes, anyone can do this in practice. But even on their page, it's stated clearly that it's wrong and illegal, and that spying on people is not the purpose of the application. Spying without someone's consent is not allowed.
 
E

Elim Garak

Guest
Re: Devastating internet censorship plan (new SOPA) to be put in practice starting Ju

I think there are many who care for what is right and wrong as well. Like I said most torrents encourage people to buy the original work too. Also, excluding piracy done for money, why would anyone make websites to give people things for FREE rather than keeping pirated games and the like for themselves to sell? Those who give things away do it so others can enjoy them... sometimes people who can't pay for original stuff. Many put themselves at legal risk to do so. In this case however, I was also talking about pirating things out of spite. Which yes, this makes me want to do... especially with everything Hollywood-made.

As for who it affects, it will affect normal internet users. Do realize that the third-party group who monitors the internet doesn't even know all movies bands albums games and programs. Many will be people who don't even know how the internet works, what people create and what it's used for. Think of those receiving notices just for using bittorrent to download custom Linux distros, or open-source movie projects (yes there are some, the ones I know were made with Blender). There's also Creative Commons music and more. Who could expect the morons that will probably work there to even remotely understand such things?

Then obviously, torrents can also be used with anonymous network layers and proxies, so this won't even help the purpose because anyone with light skills can use TOR or a proxy. Torrent clients will probably come with this feature built-in and activated by default once this misery is passed. So again, this is just hitting on us normal users and making us afraid to use the internet, by using a wrong method that won't even work on the actual problem.

Oh, and about this third-party company doing the tracking: I don't remember who the hell among us told them they could do that. Who gave them the right to spy on our transfers at all? Why should someone I never met in my life know what I'm downloading or not, and my IP address and data? Should I expect them to drink beer with an ISP and laugh at "what weird porn people are downloading" (legit or not)? Nope... still unacceptable, and the moment someone does this they should be in court.

FYI: There's a free open-source program called Wireshark, which lets you spy on what any user in the world is doing by IP address (and what they download and access). Yes, anyone can do this in practice. But even on their page, it's stated clearly that it's wrong and illegal, and that spying on people is not the purpose of the application. Spying without someone's consent is not allowed.
So much stupid in this post.
They will work with a report system, as they have been doing it in a way, they seed a file like a movie, and see who connects to your client, basic honeypot. They see the IPs which they send to the owner of that ip, the ISP, which will send the warning to the user allocated to that IP or range of IPs and punish them.
They cannot disable bittorent since it is used as you say by Linux and other projects, also P2P systems exist in WoW updater, Star Trek Online downloader(and any other program that uses Pandoo media booster as a background downloader)

Torrents should not be used with Tor, too slow and its not optimized for this, would have a large negative impact on Tor. Torrents by proxy already exist, well rather they tend to use VPNs and seedboxes. These come at a price because it would be financially backbreaking to provide this to users for free since server usage and bandwidth tends to be expensive on a large scale.

The third parties will do as I said before, just make files a honeypot, they won't actually sift through all your mails, so nothing private comes out because this would probably violate privacy laws and the likes.

Also what the fuck, you don't even know what wireshark does, you can't monitor anything on the internet unless it passes through you. Wireshark allows you to see the connections between your pc(or if its installed on a pc between say your network and your ISP, it can see connections from anything behind your network connecting to the outside and things to connect to your network) and the outside networks.
Say if it its installed on your PC and you type www.google.com in firefox, you will see HTTP requests going out to 173.194.34.66(google). YOU CAN ONLY SEE CONNECTS ORIGINATING FROM YOU OR HAVING YOU AS A DESTINATION. This only has one exception, if you have a WiFi card that can handle monitoring mode it can also see the unencrypted wifi communications going around.

This all will not determine users from using the internet, it is at a point its pretty much essential from most people, resumé needs to be sent in email, family needs you on facebook, friends need you on chat, news comes from online websites nowadays.
Over here, taxes are done online as well. People don't really care much about internet privacy when it comes to the average user because they don't understand the dangers of it, they'll just go like OH YEAH IT GETS RID OF THE PEDO WEBSITES.

I am against censorship, just needed to point out the retarded in your post.
 

Duality Jack

Feeling Loki with it.
Re: Devastating internet censorship plan (new SOPA) to be put in practice starting Ju

SO to sum up some of your opinions:

I think its okay for someone to spend lots of work and money on something and not have the power to stop people from having it for free thus making my work less worth while? How is that different then shoplifting?
 

Randy-Darkshade

Bike riding squirrel thing.
Re: Devastating internet censorship plan (new SOPA) to be put in practice starting Ju

SO to sum up some of your opinions:

I think its okay for someone to spend lots of work and money on something and not have the power to stop people from having it for free thus making my work less worth while? How is that different then shoplifting?

It isn't really any different. Theft imo is theft no matter how it's done. Back before digital media took hold and became as popular as it is now (fuck me I feel old now) I used to enjoy going to the store and actually BUYING a CD, take it home and shove in my CD player. I had quite a large collection of CD's back in 2007 but once I started keeping music on my computers I dumped them all.

I don't think offenders should be banned altogether from the net but perhaps banned from peer to peer sharing sites and other media sites.
 

Aden

Play from your ****ing HEART
Re: Devastating internet censorship plan (new SOPA) to be put in practice starting Ju

SO to sum up some of your opinions:

I think its okay for someone to spend lots of work and money on something and not have the power to stop people from having it for free thus making my work less worth while? How is that different then shoplifting?

Since you asked, technically, shoplifting deprives the shop of the original product, thus making it impossible for them to sell that instance of that product
 

AshleyAshes

Arcade Snowmew Of Doom
Re: Devastating internet censorship plan (new SOPA) to be put in practice starting Ju

No, I'm saying that people are NOT companies and companies are NOT people therefore under the law you should not treat them the same way.

Do companies have heartbeats? Can they sexually reproduce? No, they can not therefore people are not the same thing as people.
Can you legally sell people for money in the usa? No, you can not therefore people are not the same thing as companies.

Actually, legally speaking, corporations are people. You sure are ignorant, CannonFodder. ^_^
 

AshleyAshes

Arcade Snowmew Of Doom
Re: Devastating internet censorship plan (new SOPA) to be put in practice starting Ju

Conversely, if they do the opposite and become more lax on this issue, are people going start actually buying the products they were previously stealing? ...Pfffttt, HAHAHA, hell no. People pirate shit because they have no qualms with receiving good without actually paying for them, it has nothing to do with how the companies operate, or if they're 'nice' or not. It boils down to "I want this for free, so I'll take it".

The notion of 'justice' that so many pirates like to portray upon themselves is so laughably off-base that I honestly don't care what the hell ISPs do to them at this point. If you're going to keep enjoying services you refuse to pay for, you can shoulder some risk for it I'm sure.

It's true. I pirate the crap out of a lot of media but I make no moral justification for it. It's free and it's a small offence against civil law, not even criminal. So I download movies and TV shows.
 

Mircea

Active Member
Re: Devastating internet censorship plan (new SOPA) to be put in practice starting Ju

So much stupid in this post.
They will work with a report system, as they have been doing it in a way, they seed a file like a movie, and see who connects to your client, basic honeypot. They see the IPs which they send to the owner of that ip, the ISP, which will send the warning to the user allocated to that IP or range of IPs and punish them.
They cannot disable bittorent since it is used as you say by Linux and other projects, also P2P systems exist in WoW updater, Star Trek Online downloader(and any other program that uses Pandoo media booster as a background downloader)

Torrents should not be used with Tor, too slow and its not optimized for this, would have a large negative impact on Tor. Torrents by proxy already exist, well rather they tend to use VPNs and seedboxes. These come at a price because it would be financially backbreaking to provide this to users for free since server usage and bandwidth tends to be expensive on a large scale.

The third parties will do as I said before, just make files a honeypot, they won't actually sift through all your mails, so nothing private comes out because this would probably violate privacy laws and the likes.

Also what the fuck, you don't even know what wireshark does, you can't monitor anything on the internet unless it passes through you. Wireshark allows you to see the connections between your pc(or if its installed on a pc between say your network and your ISP, it can see connections from anything behind your network connecting to the outside and things to connect to your network) and the outside networks.
Say if it its installed on your PC and you type www.google.com in firefox, you will see HTTP requests going out to 173.194.34.66(google). YOU CAN ONLY SEE CONNECTS ORIGINATING FROM YOU OR HAVING YOU AS A DESTINATION. This only has one exception, if you have a WiFi card that can handle monitoring mode it can also see the unencrypted wifi communications going around.

This all will not determine users from using the internet, it is at a point its pretty much essential from most people, resumé needs to be sent in email, family needs you on facebook, friends need you on chat, news comes from online websites nowadays.
Over here, taxes are done online as well. People don't really care much about internet privacy when it comes to the average user because they don't understand the dangers of it, they'll just go like OH YEAH IT GETS RID OF THE PEDO WEBSITES.

I am against censorship, just needed to point out the retarded in your post.

I agree with some things. If (and only if) they will use torrent trackers (IP lists) to see who's downloading, then they don't see other information. However, it's hard to know whether it's the case.

As for Wireshark, I haven't used it a lot, but was certain what it does is being able to sniff the traffic of any IP address which you can look at and ping. Maybe I'm wrong, but I know other programs have this ability. Whatever you do you do by sending packets to a server... and a good program can catch those and re-interpret them. For a corporation like this it would be piece of cake.

Now normally, doing so is illegal. If you sniff someone then go to court saying they were downloading this and that, you are the one getting in trouble instead for spying on them. But if something like this will be accepted, if ISP's will also use this method (who knows, we don't trust them by nice words) and if they will be allowed behind the curtain to use the practice as part of this new initiative, things are really really bad.
 

Randy-Darkshade

Bike riding squirrel thing.
Re: Devastating internet censorship plan (new SOPA) to be put in practice starting Ju

Since you asked, technically, shoplifting deprives the shop of the original product, thus making it impossible for them to sell that instance of that product

Ahh yes but pirating is a form of theft is it not? just like shoplifting is.
 

AshleyAshes

Arcade Snowmew Of Doom
Re: Devastating internet censorship plan (new SOPA) to be put in practice starting Ju

As for Wireshark, I haven't used it a lot, but was certain what it does is being able to sniff the traffic of any IP address which you can look at and ping. Maybe I'm wrong, but I know other programs have this ability.

No, you really don't. There is no magical software that can reach out on the net and see what any device on the internet is doing.
 

Mircea

Active Member
Re: Devastating internet censorship plan (new SOPA) to be put in practice starting Ju

Ahh yes but pirating is a form of theft is it not? just like shoplifting is.

That's something I never fully agreed with, but partly. It's only theft as we know it when you take something from someone to claim it for yourself. In the process, you obtain the object, while the other side loses it. And usually, the other side losing the stolen item is what makes it a crime. In this case it's copying; You obtain the object, but the other side doesn't lose it. On the contrary, they willingly offer it. It's still wrong as a moral, but way less dramatic.

Personally, if people who hotwired and stole cars would leave a copy of the car behind as they escape with it, I would see car theft as a less tragic thing too. Since you are not taking it away from the owner... and if you had to buy the car instead of stealing it in order to get it, you might have decided to not buy it at all. Therefore there's no actual proof that someone lost anything (including money) unless you tap into the person's head to know if he would have bought it from the car dealer were he not able to take a copy.

Considering (for the sake of debate) that it was possible for a song to fit inside a 10 bits file. You could write 10 numbers consisting of 0 or 1 on a piece of paper, and hand it to your classmate at school. Then when he gets home, he opens notepad, writes the 0's and 1's, saves it as an mp3 file and opens the file as a song, and listens to it. Where exactly was the criminal act committed, and what was the "murder weapon"? Was writing a combination of numbers and giving it to your friend the actual crime? Can any exact consequences be known based on the act? Also, how can you prevent piracy then... by making it illegal to write on paper? Again, this is just me diving foolishly deep into the technical debate, but I hope you see my point.

That's what companies and anti-piracy people don't accept. They call it outright theft, but don't realize that it's a gray area with many ifs and buts the moment we talk about copying. Again, not to say it's fully ok... in my view it's a gray area both legally and morally.
 

Mircea

Active Member
Re: Devastating internet censorship plan (new SOPA) to be put in practice starting Ju

No, you really don't. There is no magical software that can reach out on the net and see what any device on the internet is doing.

Interesting. I'm a computer nerd, but if that's true it means I failed at being properly informed this time *beats self* I was pretty sure that any packet sent from one computer to another can be captured by anyone on the internet who knows their IP, using simple software. If not that's a good thing... my difficulty to sleep at night was increased with 0.1% when I heard about this :p
 

Lukar

Durrgon
Re: Devastating internet censorship plan (new SOPA) to be put in practice starting Ju

Surprised I haven't seen this in any news lately.

Also if you support such art then you have no morals.

Dude... It's art. Of fictional creatures. I don't particularly enjoy it, but all it is is art. It isn't hurting anybody. Offend, maybe, but hurt? No.
 
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