Discord is not a replacement for forums

[TrishaCat]

Reading the news that this site is going to be replaced by a Discord is so extremely disheartening, this being pretty much the only furry forum left that still gets activity. With its death, furry forums will be effectively dead. This is, in a way, the last bastion of furry internet forums.
I have been here since I was a young teenager. This site is responsible for me meeting so many people, including many friends, acquaintences, and even my girlfriend. Indeed, I met my significant other here. We were not dating when we first met, but this is where we met. It hurts and is sad to see a place that affected me in such a big way go. But, this is beyond me, I think.

Forums are, in my opinion, a superior place for discussion to pretty much every other kind of communication site. Forums can't be replaced by Discord because their functionality is so radically different that, even with Discord's attempts to add forum-like features, its too much a chat client ala Skype/Telegram that its functionally very different. Let me outline a few reasons why.

Forums are public facing. Anyone can visit forums.furaffinity.net and immediately see it on the net. You can google "furry forum" and its the second highest result. You want a place to meet other furries, this shows up for everyone. Discord is different - you have to join a Discord in order to see its contents. Which brings me to my next point:
Discord channels are not nearly as readable as forums are. When you have a thread on a forum, its topic is on display at the top of a forum section. If you're not interested in the topic, you can post in a different thread or make your own thread for any topic you want. On Discord, when you post in a channel, that post becomes harder and harder to see the more people post in that particular channel. There is no simply going back to a previous page. You cannot have so many channels for so many different topics, so topics get drowned out by newer topics that people might not be interested in. I mainly post in the video games section of this site. There are threads to talk about Pokemon, general gaming news, free indie games, video game music, unpopular opinions, individual video games and individual series, etc. Its like this in every section of this forum. But on Discord, there's not really separate topics, just a channel for a general idea. So you might have a video games channel and people interested in different video game topics get drowned out by each other. This does not fascilitate discussion in a useful and fun way. One might still like this format, but it is unequivocally different in functionality and use from a forum. Discord is not a replacement for forums. This goes for any topic - its a chat client, so everything becomes harder and harder to access the more time passes; its so much easier to see older discussions and add to those discussions on forums, where as on Discord and other clients the older the discussion is, the more faux pas it is to continue the topic.

Please please reconsider removing this forum. Discord is not a replacement for forums.

 

[TrishaCat]

Anyways if any of you nerds wanna add me/keep up with me should Dragoneer go through with this (please don't!),
Discord: TrishaCat#0279
Twitter: https://twitter.com/WaywardKitt
Tumblr: https://battlechili.tumblr.com/ (I may return to this if Twitter continues its route)
Steam: https://steamcommunity.com/id/TrishatheCat/

 

[ben909]

i agree with you, but doubt we will change anyones minds, from the timing of things, i think they came to the conclusion that the software needed here is not going to fit into the budget, nothing can save this place

 

[Pomorek]

Discord is not a replacement for forums.

Full agreement on that. It's not even exchanging apples for oranges, it's apples vs watery chicken broth.

Unfortunately, this seems to largely be a resources-based decision. So the forums are done & gone. Very sorry to say.

Especially that I'm probably getting too old for teh interwebz these days. Everything has to be lightning-quick, changing many times a minute, be fast, hyper, hysterical, loud, ringing, singing, and damn you if you happen to have attention span longer than that of a proverbial goldfish. YouTube clips come to mind too, even those on quite benign topics are increasingly filled with jarring audio-visual blips (how come this does not have an epilepsy warning?) that leave an impression that the target audience must be absurdly hyperactive and unable to focus without repeated sharp jabs to the senses.

Same with communication, it must be now, this milisecond, a message 3 days old stinks and is not to be touched, and be cursed if you don't respond within an hour!

Feels like we who like to take our time with things are a dying breed. Oh well then, gotta find me a rocking chair, sit by fireplace, smoke a pipe... cradle a shotgun.

 

[Marius Merganser]

Consider that that maintaining the infrastructure for a site this large has got to be expensive, time consuming, and probably largely thankless.
People need to be vigilant to maintain the code, hardware, security, and back ups. Combine lower traffic with the use of ad-blockers and I'd be surprised if revenue from advertisers buying ads would be sufficient to cover operating costs. Why not offload all of that to an established service? Discord runs on Windows, Linux, MacOS, iOS, and Android, so it's high availability, actively and well maintained, and has tools against trolling, spam, and other malicious threats, AND it's still free. I think from an IT perspective, it makes sense.

No, Discord doesn't work the way traditional web based forums do and it wasn't meant to, but those who adopt it will likely get creative and find new ways to interact and participate. My concerns were largely about waking up in the morning and having to read through 300 new messages from 20 different simultaneous conversations that have all already ended. But the preview images would suggest it's not going to be like trying to have a conversation in a crowded football stadium while playing musical chairs.

So, my plan is to try it out, politely ask the staff about features that I think could be improved, and see how it goes.

 

[Fallowfox]

At least Elon Musk will never buy this place I guess.

 

[Pomorek]

But the preview images would suggest it's not going to be like trying to have a conversation in a crowded football stadium while playing musical chairs.

Frankly, I'm so removed from the whole thing that I can't interpret what I'm looking at with these previews.

Guess that forum games will find their place there naturally. And things such as the open chat, vents, "what good has happened today" etc will become the main activity. But what about topics that can be long-running at a slower pace, with users adding to them less frequently? Is there some way for this to work?

 

[Judge Spear]

Discord is supposed to have literal forums for large public communities now so maybe it won't be the worst shit for this case.

 

[Judge Spear]

If only this place didnt get completely fucked years ago pushing the original staff and hundreds of old regulars away (and the literal server host) it wouldnt have been crippled to this day. Might have had enough life left to justify keeping it around, social media be damned.

 

[Tetrachroma]

But what about topics that can be long-running at a slower pace, with users adding to them less frequently? Is there some way for this to work?

Discord has a thread feature that addresses this concern pretty well imo, it's just that its established userbase never really uses it so it may not see heaps of interaction.

 

[Green_Brick]

It's quite sad to see the end of the forums, because I'm sure a lot of great memories have been made on here for lots of people, myself included, I met quite a number of artists on here, some of which I never would have made friends with and became a client for if it weren't for the forums! I'm grateful I got to meet them before this fateful day came.

However, I do not understand the reason for shutting down the forums, other than... probably one reason? I doubt we can deny the fact that the FA forums are not as active as they used to be in the 2000s, or the 2010s. Every time I have checked in on here, I see almost the same handful of usernames active on posts. That could be cause for the IT at FA to shut it down, that it's not being used much anymore and that the system resources could be put to better use than keep the forums up for just a select handful of users?

I'm not sure if that's the definitive reason why they're doing this, but I do not think the Discord idea will be any better than the current state of the forums. I know a number of artists on FA who aren't even on the forums, and some people who will probably be upset with the forums shutting down that they just wouldn't care to use the FA Discord. I'm part of another community where the forums have tapered off, to the point it's just the same legit 10 people carrying the site (out of over 750,000 registered users), and their Discord is no different...

Quite a sad day, but I guess we should make the best of it before the time comes, yeah?

 

[Marius Merganser]

Frankly, I'm so removed from the whole thing that I can't interpret what I'm looking at with these previews.

Guess that forum games will find their place there naturally. And things such as the open chat, vents, "what good has happened today" etc will become the main activity. But what about topics that can be long-running at a slower pace, with users adding to them less frequently? Is there some way for this to work?

If there is, we'll find it.

 

[redhusky]

I always found Discord to be more of a chatting platform than a discussion board. That makes it too quick of a pace for me but I totally get the appeal.

 

[TrishaCat]

Discord has a thread feature that addresses this concern pretty well imo, it's just that its established userbase never really uses it so it may not see heaps of interaction.

The thread feature is still not very great because it's formatted as just scrolling down. There will be parts of the thread you cannot easily access and read due to age, if used the same way as forums are.

 

[Pomorek]

Discord has a thread feature that addresses this concern pretty well imo, it's just that its established userbase never really uses it so it may not see heaps of interaction.

So there's hope. Actually I just imagined the "fossils" like myself sitting in our corner of slow discussion while the "milisecond communication crowd" rushes by, leaving us in peace as they can't stand our glacial pace. Could be fine for me if it works.

The thread feature is still not very great because it's formatted as just scrolling down. There will be parts of the thread you cannot easily access and read due to age, if used the same way as forums are.

Always better than nothing and maybe they'll improve it further since it's said to be so new. Tongue in cheek, one could see it as an automated solution to the thread/post necroing issue...

 

[Green_Brick]

So there's hope. Actually I just imagined the "fossils" like myself sitting in our corner of slow discussion while the "milisecond communication crowd" rushes by, leaving us in peace as they can't stand our glacial pace. Could be fine for me if it works.

To be honest, Discord is my main means of staying in contact with some amazing artists I met earlier this year. I tried out Discord servers and left most of them, because Discord is legit ADHD on steroids. I don't mind using it to chat with my friends in DMs, or commission artists, but I seldom participate in servers, due to social anxiety and the "expectation" that I'll respond Soon™

 

[TrishaCat]

the software needed here is not going to fit into the budget, nothing can save this place

What if the forums were funded through a donation system? I wouldn't mind donating to keep this place alive. Maybe others wouldn't too?

 

[ben909]

What if the forums were funded through a donation system? I wouldn't mind donating to keep this place alive. Maybe others wouldn't too?

i thought about asking that, but i doubt it would
work

 

[Starbeak]

This place doesn't even have a Discord to my knowledge, and if it did... I rarely use Discord as is.

I joined a few "Furry Discords" as my gaming alias before, but those just seemed super toxic so I left them all.

I don't ever see Discord as a "Forum Replacement", it is more like a Telegram or Skype than it is a forum imo.

I guess if this is it, then I will enjoy it while it lasts.

 

[BronzeHeart92]

Yeah, this is quite the shame honestly... Ah well, nothing lasts forever and that's all there's to it. If anyone wanna find me on Reddit, Steam etc., feel free to look me up. You should be able to find me under the same handle pretty easily.

 

[Fallowfox]

If only this place didnt get completely fucked years ago pushing the original staff and hundreds of old regulars away (and the literal server host) it wouldnt have been crippled to this day. Might have had enough life left to justify keeping it around, social media be damned.

I was away for work related purposes at the time whatever that was happened, and still have a very murky notion of what actually occurred.

 

[TrishaCat]

I was away for work related purposes at the time whatever that was happened, and still have a very murky notion of what actually occurred.

I *think* Dragoneer instituted a new rule that mods needed to show some kinda ID in order to be a mod. This was unpopular, I think because people didn't want to dox themselves, so a bunch of mods stepped down. Then the forums were shitposted at and bunch of people left. This was shortly after hiring Chase, which was also a very unpopular decision for claims about them I do not know if are true or not. Someone correct me if I'm wrong or if there's more.

 

[Attaman]

On one hand, I understand entirely the decision to remove support for FAF. It has been a hot mess for... a while now, in many regards (staffing, administrating, the sort of spam that occasionally creeps into it, bouts of spam bots, and so-on). On top of this it is an expense that Dragoneer presumably can do without after recently re-acquiring FA, has a great deal of legal hang-ups and kerfuffles in relation to being an official forum for FA proper, and I could probably keep making excuses for as much all day long. And unlike many forums which yet thrive, there's... not particularly, many methods of monetization to make up for its expenses. Since the low hanging fruit of "places to implement monetization" will always be "FA proper".

But at the same time, it is always worth bearing in mind that services like Discord, Telegram, et al are not archives nor stable platforms. They are not now, and never will be. Pinned posts are a clumsy tool at best. Bots make and break with the season's latest Discord updates (or go under because their servers were compromised, or so-on). Their search tools are clumsy at best, and their hosting is even more spotty. To say nothing of out-of-channel archiving (RIP your fanfics and art if you didn't host them elsewhere and Discord goes down for maintenance, for example), advertising to new audiences, etcetera.

I *think* Dragoneer instituted a new rule that mods needed to show some kinda ID in order to be a mod. This was unpopular, I think because people didn't want to dox themselves, so a bunch of mods stepped down. Then the forums were shitposted at and bunch of people left. This was shortly after hiring Chase, which was also a very unpopular decision for claims about them I do not know if are true or not. Someone correct me if I'm wrong or if there's more.

On top of this there was also a fair bit of friction because FAF as a community was... not a pleasant place.

And by this I don't mean "It wasn't afraid to be blunt and didn't care about political correctness", I mean "Hazing new members who weren't established main-site artists was fairly common. Also them too, but often in a different fashion. Also there was a lot of open contempt for a lot of aspects of the community. And an openly flouted belief that FAF was Just Superior to All Other Furry Spaces (including mainsite)." Which was a bit of a problem when FA hadn't quite solidified itself as the Furry art site yet (people often forget that once upon a time there were almost half a dozen 'major' competitors to FA), people would look at the Forums to ask some sort of question or look into some community discussions or whatnot, and get blindsided with threads openly discussing the equivalent of lighting a bag of dog turds on fire on SoFurry's doorstep. Or discussing which Popufur is the biggest lolcow.

 

[DesecratedFlame]

Discord is supposed to have literal forums for large public communities now so maybe it won't be the worst shit for this case.

Have you actually tried the threads system in Discord? It is terrible. It is like a channel buried within another channel. And if the channel allows normal posting as well, it gets buried even faster except for a little easy to miss/ignore icon.

 

[Firuthi Dragovic]

Pretty much the main thing I still used the forums for was for RPing.

There is a certain level of archival that can't be achieved with Discord that I required for these RPs. There are places for good RP lore archiving like... I think it was called Obsidian Portal?... but that one pretty much requires you to be an artist (which I am not) or have artists in your RPs to fully put together without issues.

If I wanted short chats, Discord is better off for that sort of thing. I just happen to get way overwhelmed with how fast Discord chats go.