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Do you think democracy in the united states of america is dying?

Is democracy dying the USA?

  • yes

    Votes: 17 41.5%
  • no

    Votes: 10 24.4%
  • maybe/meh/other

    Votes: 14 34.1%

  • Total voters
    41

CannonFodder

Resistance is futile! If 0 ohm
The most obvious example is that the democrat party has gone further and further right until nowadays we have to vote between a moderately conservative party(the democrats) and the republicans have gone so far right that it's not even funny. So you are forced to vote conservatively or vote extremist conservative.

However another example is that democracy now takes a back seat whenever a special interest group lobbies a congressman. For example the sopa bill trying to go through congress, ten years ago had you even said something like this was going to happen you would have been called a conspiracy theorist.

Or for example what Lacus was talking about earlier, the occupy denver protesters were rounded up in buses and she hasn't seen or heard from them. IF the ndaa bill goes through this sort of stuff may become common place in which protesters are rounded up, not given a trial or anything.

I would may a prediction of where we may be ending up ten years from now, but I have a feeling at this rate anything said will be woefully under estimated cause ten years ago nobody would have thought we'd end up at this point and would have freaked out had they known.
 

Ley

Member
Yes. I really, really don't want to be here ten years from now... soooo I WILL MOVE TO THE UK. Its bad but not AS BAD. :I That or Australia.
 

CannonFodder

Resistance is futile! If 0 ohm
Yes. I really, really don't want to be here ten years from now... soooo I WILL MOVE TO THE UK. Its bad but not AS BAD. :I That or Australia.
I hope we have to reduce our military, cause where we are going to end up ten years from now the last thing we need is for a country like that to be hegemony.
"We have seen the enemy and it is us"
 

Aetius

It's Me Gordon, Barney from Black Mesa
Why does everyone take the US government so seriously?

We are talking about the people who would rather declare Pizza a vegetable than fight a war.
 

Jashwa

Member
Nope, you're stupid if you think shit like this hasn't always been a thing. The only difference is nowadays they have better technology to invade upon peoples' rights.

I think democracy is alive and well, but the majority of people are too apathetic and exhausted with it to go through the effort to make it work properly.
 

CannonFodder

Resistance is futile! If 0 ohm
Nope, you're stupid if you think shit like this hasn't always been a thing. The only difference is nowadays they have better technology to invade upon peoples' rights.

I think democracy is alive and well, but the majority of people are too apathetic and exhausted with it to go through the effort to make it work properly.
I know stuff like this has happened in the past, it's just that we can't time travel to prevent things that have already happened.
Why does everyone take the US government so seriously?
Cause it affects us directly.
 

CannonFodder

Resistance is futile! If 0 ohm
I'm saying that Jashwa's argument is flawed in that what he's saying that is paradoxical and that we should care about what's going on right now regardless of whether or not stuff like this has happened in the past.
To use a metaphor it'd be like saying that a car has broken and then saying that it's still working.

What I was also getting at earlier is that I think democracy is dying cause both parties are conservative.
 

Jashwa

Member
I'm saying that Jashwa's argument is flawed in that what he's saying that is paradoxical and that we should care about what's going on right now regardless of whether or not stuff like this has happened in the past.
To use a metaphor it'd be like saying that a car has broken and then saying that it's still working.
This isn't what I said at all. I said that your examples of why democracy is dying aren't true because it's always been like that.

Stop setting up retarded straw men.
 

CannonFodder

Resistance is futile! If 0 ohm
This isn't what I said at all. I said that your examples of why democracy is dying aren't true because it's always been like that.

Stop setting up retarded straw men.
The difference is that in the past most of the time you've had choices when voting, I say most of the time. Now both parties are conservative, is having to vote between two conservatives and not having another option democratic?
Next presidential election it's going to be between obama, a conservative, and a republican, another conservative.

Conservative vs conservative? Sounds like democracy?
 

Term_the_Schmuck

Most Interesting Man on FAF
The difference is that in the past most of the time you've had choices when voting, I say most of the time. Now both parties are conservative, is having to vote between two conservatives and not having another option democratic?
Next presidential election it's going to be between obama, a conservative, and a republican, another conservative.

Conservative vs conservative? Sounds like democracy?

Oh hey, you do realize that the presidency isn't the only thing on the ballot, right?

And that if you truly want to enact change, what you really should be focusing on is the legislature correct?

And look!

There's a senate race in Texas right now. Maybe you should start looking up these people and learn something about them so when it comes time to vote you're not just complaining about the fact Obama hasn't been the magical liberal pixie fairy you hoped he'd be. Because you don't like the candidates doesn't mean the system's failed. It means you don't like the candidates.
 

Fay V

Lost to this world
Cannon, it looks like it is broken to you because it is not far enough to the left for your comfort. You're on the far side of the babyboomers, and that's just too damn bad, but that doesn't mean democracy is broken.
there are problems I won't deny that, but your fundamental stance is "we're choosing between conservative and more conservative!"
From another point of view Obama is moderate, which isn't anything new under the sun. It's not uncommon for people to run and be more left or right depending on their voting base then become more moderate during the presidency, particularly the first one.

I do think the republicans have swung too far right for their own good. I think we're in a time of change and it makes things seem weird. I think you're looking at a position of a minority and saying "but this isn't what I want" well duh, it's what the majority of voters want and they just happen to be conservative baby boomers.

Heck I find it adorable that you think the system was even designed for two parties. It wasn't. Remember we had a couple presidents before that kicked in. You have a choice guy A, or guy B. And guys A B C D E D F G for the senate, and J K L M N O P for the house...but no, the entire thing is broken because you don't like the choice between two guys for one seat during on presidential term.
 
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CannonFodder

Resistance is futile! If 0 ohm
Oh hey, you do realize that the presidency isn't the only thing on the ballot, right?

And that if you truly want to enact change, what you really should be focusing on is the legislature correct?

And look!

There's a senate race in Texas right now. Maybe you should start looking up these people and learn something about them so when it comes time to vote you're not just complaining about the fact Obama hasn't been the magical liberal pixie fairy you hoped he'd be. Because you don't like the candidates doesn't mean the system's failed. It means you don't like the candidates.
You do realize I already know this right? And that I'm already going to vote on it when it comes right?
The problem is it's texas, for decades they were screwing over the election process so badly until the supreme court had to step- oh wait, the ruling got overturned.
Yeah, democracy is at it's lowest right now, but it might bounce back once the various special interest groups lose power.
Don't hold your breath.
 

Mayfurr

Mostly Harmless
Well they do say the USA has the best politicians money can buy... :p
 

Term_the_Schmuck

Most Interesting Man on FAF
You do realize I already know this right? And that I'm already going to vote on it when it comes right?
The problem is it's texas, for decades they were screwing over the election process so badly until the supreme court had to step- oh wait, the ruling got overturned.

You didn't present it in the OP or subsequent posts. All I saw was "Boo-hoo, I don't like the candidates, democracy is ruined." Because clearly, from what we've seen Obama is running on the same exact ticket as Newt Gingrich, amirite folks?

And you might want to be a bit more specific as to the election process in Texas being screwy. Cause the main thing I find in my searches is the US Supreme Court attempting to stop both parties from trying to redraw district lines in their favor, and that a court sanctioned redrawing of district lines will likely benefit Dems more than Republicans.
 
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Xegras

Peerat
Every time I come back and see a politically fueled thread by CF I remember why I stopped reading them.
 

CannonFodder

Resistance is futile! If 0 ohm
You didn't present it in the OP or subsequent posts. All I saw was "Boo-hoo, I don't like the candidates, democracy is ruined." Because clearly, from what we've seen Obama is running on the same exact ticket as Newt Gingrich, amirite folks?

And you might want to be a bit more specific as to the election process in Texas being screwy. Cause the main thing I find in my searches is the US Supreme Court attempting to stop both parties from trying to redraw district lines in their favor, and that a court sanctioned redrawing of district lines will likely benefit Dems more than Republicans.
The short version of the political process in texas is that for decades they drew the disctrict lines screwy to the point that a median for a highway went all the way from bryan college station to waco just to solidify conservative votes.
Fracking, cracking, gerrymandering you name it has been done here until the supreme court came in and said that the texas government can't do that and redrew the lines so that it was a fair clean election process; then that got overturned and texas government can go back to what they were doing.
 

Gryphoneer

20 Quatloos on "disruptive"
From another point of view Obama is moderate, which isn't anything new under the sun.
I know you Murricans have the deep-rooted peculiarity to hold twisted views on practically everything, but from an objective standpoint the bitter truth is that both the Decadentocrats and the Republicanazis are right-wing extremist.

Don't hold your breath.
Might be sooner than you think.

Once the moronic business decisions of the SIGs have completely wrecked your economy and turned the US third-world they won't have no more money to control the gubmint or pull out of the harvested market and pull off the same spiel in another country.
 

Term_the_Schmuck

Most Interesting Man on FAF
The short version of the political process in texas is that for decades they drew the disctrict lines screwy to the point that a median for a highway went all the way from bryan college station to waco just to solidify conservative votes.
Fracking, cracking, gerrymandering you name it has been done here until the supreme court came in and said that the texas government can't do that and redrew the lines so that it was a fair clean election process; then that got overturned and texas government can go back to what they were doing.

Apparently not because the US Supreme Court is still looking into the district lines as this article released five hours ago points out.

And these district lines aren't just arbitrarily changed, in case someone may be wondering that. The last census saw Texas have an explosion of 4 million people in the state, many of whom were Hispanic and African-American. The Voting Rights Act requires states like Texas to draw their districts to properly represent those people who live there. The Republicans attempted to release a map which didn't represent this and long story short, the Supreme Court is still looking into it, though preliminary drafts apparently favor Dems due to the minority vote.
 

Fay V

Lost to this world
I know you Murricans have the deep-rooted peculiarity to hold twisted views on practically everything, but from an objective standpoint the bitter truth is that both the Decadentocrats and the Republicanazis are right-wing extremist.


Might be sooner than you think.

Once the moronic business decisions of the SIGs have completely wrecked your economy and turned the US third-world they won't have no more money to control the gubmint or pull out of the harvested market and pull off the same spiel in another country.
There is no objective view in human politics. From a world standpoint our nation leans right. From the american standpoint our president is moderate, which isn't new. the president campaigns left or right as far as american politics are concerned then gravitate to the middle of the american spectrum when elected.
Now if you want to make an argument that american politics are broken because the nation is right leaning then go for it, but I expect you to use adult words.
 

Neuron

Member
As for what's going on with those people, I think they have been charged with stuff by the police and they have filed for extended detentions. They were overnight occupiers so it's not surprising, the bus thing just seems fucking ridiculous though, it honestly scares me. The thing is the police keep tearing down the only structures keeping these people alive, so honestly a 72 hour hold might actually be keeping them alive and out of the cold. I find it ridiculous they outlaw tents in cities when the shelters are FUCKING FULL everywhere you go, just ask Azure. But I digress...

On the topic of whether democracy is dying, democracy is dying because voter turnout is fucking pathetic. Voter apathy is the most powerful thing that those who are far to the right have.
 

Gryphoneer

20 Quatloos on "disruptive"
There is no objective view in human politics.
Yeah, right, and if you divide by zero you can prove that 2 plus 2 equals 5...

There's an objective standpoint for everything, period. That's the logical consequence of a clockwork universe. Moving on.

Now if you want to make an argument that american politics are broken because the nation is right leaning then go for it, but I expect you to use adult words.
No, I didn't make any such argument.

The ultra right leaning is ultimately a side effect. Your political system has been seized by a bunch of moneybags who call the shots now instead of the commons. If you've got enough dough you grow conservative in order to protect it and that finds expression in their rule.
 

Azure

100% organic vegan hubbas
Oh look, another CF thread. I know what to do!


DEAR PRINCESS CELESTIA,

The most obvious example is that the democrat party has gone further and further right until nowadays we have to vote between a moderately conservative party(the democrats) and the republicans have gone so far right that it's not even funny. So you are forced to vote conservatively or vote extremist conservative.

However another example is that democracy now takes a back seat whenever a special interest group lobbies a congressman. For example the sopa bill trying to go through congress, ten years ago had you even said something like this was going to happen you would have been called a conspiracy theorist.

Or for example what Lacus was talking about earlier, the occupy denver protesters were rounded up in buses and she hasn't seen or heard from them. IF the ndaa bill goes through this sort of stuff may become common place in which protesters are rounded up, not given a trial or anything.

I would may a prediction of where we may be ending up ten years from now, but I have a feeling at this rate anything said will be woefully under estimated cause ten years ago nobody would have thought we'd end up at this point and would have freaked out had they known.


Your Faithful Servant,
Twilight Sparkle

ahhhh, much better
 
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