Does being a furry make you go to hell? Christian

[Captain Howdy]

Edit: Well yeah, I know that there's a lot of cases where religious types use religious reasoning to argue against gay marriage. But then the non-religious take the moral high ground and act like they're better because apparently no secular person would be against gay marriage, which if you do some research, you'll find is untrue.

I tend to question the person who's using common illogical arguments against gay marriage.
- They're probably religious, even if they're claiming a secular argument.
- They're probably stupid, because even a child can refute their argument without issue.

I'm sure there are Atheists and the general non-religious against gay marriage, but it's probably more over the 'ick' factor (to them) than anything else. By and large, most of them probably don't give a fuck either way, and just want people to be happy without having to think about what they do in the bedroom.

 

[Day Coydog]

Edit: Well yeah, I know that there's a lot of cases where religious types use religious reasoning to argue against gay marriage. But then the non-religious take the moral high ground and act like they're better because apparently no secular person would be against gay marriage, which if you do some research, you'll find is untrue.

So... every secular person is in it for the high ground? NO. Some people are secular to feel superior, but don't you dare tag all of us with that.

 

[Nikolinni]

Oh no No NO way am I trying to say that every secular person is in it to feel superior. I'm just saying that there's those who use the fact that there's little to no hate for gay marriage secularly to try to make themselves seem better. But I am in no way trying to tag all of you with that notion.

 

[Day Coydog]

I started reading the article and comments then started getting depressed, so I stopped.

 

[TrishaCat]

I started reading the article and comments then started getting depressed, so I stopped.

It was a good idea to stop. This thread basically erupted into an argument about whether or not religion is a bad thing.
It's really unfortunate.

 

[Captain Howdy]

It was a good idea to stop. This thread basically erupted into an argument about whether or not religion is a bad thing.
It's really unfortunate.

Well it is, afterall.

 

[TrishaCat]

Well it is, afterall.

It can be. Religion alone is usually not a bad thing.
I was on the reason of why it isn't a bad thing for hours last night. Well, this morning. Really really early this morning.
Basically it was along the lines of there being people applying their beliefs to religion. Plus the fact that without religion there would still be plenty of unintelligent people in the world. There was other stuff, but that was basically it, but in more detail and with examples given.
But I think you were here and just lurking at the time, putting in a few cents on a rare occasion.

 

[Aetius]

The Catholic Church is making some pretty penny for a non-profit entity. And so are the Protestants over here. In fact, they make enough money for their bishops to be caught with it stuffed down their underwear in airports, and also to star in scandals where their highest-ranked representatives tell people it's all about the money. Meanwhile, the Jehova's Witnesses have enough funds to finance not only the buying of prime real state and also the building of their temples.

I'd accept them being tax-exempt if they lived hand-to-mouth, or if their net profits were below a certain threshold (y'know, like normal people over here), so they would have an incentive to actually deploy their funds in charitable acts. They don't, so they should be taxed just like any other for-profit enterprise.

You are going to have some corrupt members who will abuse their position to make a quick buck, this is visible in a great number of organizations/companies. When dealing with the expansion of the organization, it is permissible that a non profit organization use surplus revenue for that nature, per US IRS tax codes.

As a point of curiosity, a non profit organisation spending money on palaces and gold, when their most basic claim is that everything important is immaterial, is highly suspicious.

Most of those treasures or palaces were acquired when during the 1300s-1800s. Most of the regalia of the pope and Vatican has been abandoned, although the upkeep of the treasures that were acquired from so long ago continues today. Hey, I almost forgot, the Catholic Church by itself is one of the most charitable organizations in the world.

(Forgot to add in an example, once of which is in the US of A)

 

[Captain Howdy]

It can be. Religion alone is usually not a bad thing.

Y...Yeah it is. Even in a best case scenario, you have a population that believes in something inherently unprovable, and being it cannot logically exist along side science, then you just have a real shitty population of idiots. Idiots will exist with or without religion, but with religion existing, they merely produce even more stupidity than they would without religion, because it only takes a few of them to get into a position of power, and then bam, you have a cult following or whatever.

It's a domino effect of idiocy.

I was on the reason of why it isn't a bad thing for hours last night. Well, this morning. Really really early this morning.
Basically it was along the lines of there being people applying their beliefs to religion. Plus the fact that without religion there would still be plenty of unintelligent people in the world. There was other stuff, but that was basically it, but in more detail and with examples given.
But I think you were here and just lurking at the time, putting in a few cents on a rare occasion.

I was there, and I didn't bother with your points, because I've been over and over and over it all. Remember when I mentioned Rukh? You're doing more or less exactly what he did a year or so ago. And there was a dude before him that did the exact same thing before that, and on and on.

 

[Fallowfox]

You are going to have some corrupt members who will abuse their position to make a quick buck, this is visible in a great number of organizations/companies. When dealing with the expansion of the organization, it is permissible that a non profit organization use surplus revenue for that nature, per US IRS tax codes.




Most of those treasures or palaces were acquired when during the 1300s-1800s. Most of the regalia of the pope and Vatican has been abandoned, although the upkeep of the treasures that were acquired from so long ago continues today. Hey, I almost forgot, the Catholic Church by itself is one of the most charitable organizations in the world.

(Forgot to add in an example, once of which is in the US of A)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5DsWyG2-hfc

Rather long discussion, thought it pretty much covers all points that have come into discussion.

 

[PuffyCatgirl]

If it does, I'll bring the cupcakes.

 

[TrishaCat]

Y...Yeah it is. Even in a best case scenario, you have a population that believes in something inherently unprovable, and being it cannot logically exist along side science, then you just have a real shitty population of idiots. Idiots will exist with or without religion, but with religion existing, they merely produce even more stupidity than they would without religion, because it only takes a few of them to get into a position of power, and then bam, you have a cult following or whatever.

It's a domino effect of idiocy.



I was there, and I didn't bother with your points, because I've been over and over and over it all. Remember when I mentioned Rukh? You're doing more or less exactly what he did a year or so ago. And there was a dude before him that did the exact same thing before that, and on and on.

Because people believing in something that can't be proven or disproven causes problems in society. That's why new inventions and new scientific discoveries are made every day.
Science can't live alongside religion logically? I think it can. Observe:
Person 1: "I think that money grows on trees, because my religion says so."
Person 2: "Hmm, let's test that".
Person 1: "Sure, it'd be nice to try and confirm that"
Person 2: *grows a tree supposedly said to grow money* *no money is on it*
Person 1: "Well, I guess that means money doesn't grow on trees. My religion was wrong about that."
Person 1: *still follows religion, but crosses that out as a thing to believe in*
Person 2:" There's a new scientific discovery! Recent evidence shows that the Earth may have been created during a great event in space called the big bang!"
Person 1: "Cool story bro, let me know when you can confirm it without question like you did that tree"


That is literally how I work things in my mind. I am person 1.
Before anyone says anything: This is by far the stupidest argument I've ever made. If you can pick holes in it, do it, I give you whole hearted permission to do so and in fact I want you to do so. Because this argument sucks and I want to refine it.

 

[Lucy Bones]

Everybody needs to go watch the documentary "Religulous."

Like, right now.

 

[TrishaCat]

Everybody needs to go watch the documentary "Religulous."

Like, right now.

Never seen it, but I kinda know what it is.
Sounds really dumb.
The only time I have any interest in something debunking religion is if it is done in a respectful way with detailed argument using words, not annoying things making fun of religion. All that does is make one hate the people making fun of it. I don't make fun, I debate.

 

[CaptainCool]

Never seen it, but I kinda know what it is.
Sounds really dumb.
The only time I have any interest in something debunking religion is if it is done in a respectful way with detailed argument using words, not annoying things making fun of religion. All that does is make one hate the people making fun of it. I don't make fun, I debate.

Why does religion deserve respect? It's a concept that isn't even based on reality! If anything it deserves to be made fun of...

 

[Lucy Bones]

Never seen it, but I kinda know what it is.
Sounds really dumb.
The only time I have any interest in something debunking religion is if it is done in a respectful way with detailed argument using words, not annoying things making fun of religion. All that does is make one hate the people making fun of it. I don't make fun, I debate.

That's exactly what Religulous is.

It's Bill Maher going around the world, studying different religions, and then explaining how ridiculous each and every one of them really are, and WHY. It's highly educational, you'd learn something if you watched it.

 

[TrishaCat]

Why does religion deserve respect? It's a concept that isn't even based on reality! If anything it deserves to be made fun of...

Everything and everyone deserves respect, regardless of what it is or who it is.
Also, it is based on reality. It is an idea used to explain the world around you. Maybe it's not very good to use, but it is at least based on reality.
To recap: Absolutely nothing in existence deseves to be made fun of.
Nothing.

 

[Lucy Bones]

Everything and everyone deserves respect, regardless of what it is or who it is.

Uhhh, no, no it doesn't.

Respect has to be earned. It isn't just something given out for free.

 

[TrishaCat]

Uhhh, no, no it doesn't.

Respect has to be earned. It isn't just something given out for free.

I think it should be given out for free. And yes, before someone points it out, I believe in this even in the extreme cases. So if someone asks "Do you respect Hitler", my response is "Yes, I do".

 

[Lucy Bones]

I think it should be given out for free. And yes, before someone points it out, I believe in this even in the extreme cases. So if someone asks "Do you respect Hitler", my response is "Yes, I do".

Then respect will mean nothing.

 

[TrishaCat]

Then respect will mean nothing.

Yes it will. People need to simply know what a lack of respect is to know what respect is. And most people do. Therefore the respect will mean something, as people will know and appreciate it. Respect is used to keep things civil, and keep people in a good mood, or at least a better mood. A lack of respect destroys arguments and turns them into fights. Always treat others kindly, and with respect, regardless of who they are or what they've done.

 

[Kalmor]

Not on topic but, since when did the "like button" turn into the "thanks button"?

 

[Holtzmann]

You are going to have some corrupt members who will abuse their position to make a quick buck, this is visible in a great number of organizations/companies. When dealing with the expansion of the organization, it is permissible that a non profit organization use surplus revenue for that nature, per US IRS tax codes.

Problem is that it's often not just "some corrupt members". Quite a few times the entire system is structured so the people at the top will profit from the well-meaning, often volunteer work from the people at the bottom. When people start founding religions to abuse fiscal loopholes and/or make lots of money (didn't L. Ron Hubbard say something about that?)... well, that doesn't feel very spiritually fulfilling or charitable, now does it?

Religious institutions have marketing departments, promotional events, fundraising sprees, lobby groups, litigation squads and all the tools and tricks companies and corporations have at their disposal. They should be treated as companies, because that's how they already work. Otherwise they would have never become as big as they are. And if they're really committed to charity and community work, then they should go through the normal channels and get their charity-related tax deductions from their actions, not their status.

 

[Fallowfox]

Because people believing in something that can't be proven or disproven causes problems in society. That's why new inventions and new scientific discoveries are made every day.
Science can't live alongside religion logically? I think it can. Observe:
Person 1: "I think that money grows on trees, because my religion says so."
Person 2: "Hmm, let's test that".
Person 1: "Sure, it'd be nice to try and confirm that"
Person 2: *grows a tree supposedly said to grow money* *no money is on it*
Person 1: "Well, I guess that means money doesn't grow on trees. My religion was wrong about that."
Person 1: *still follows religion, but crosses that out as a thing to believe in*
Person 2:" There's a new scientific discovery! Recent evidence shows that the Earth may have been created during a great event in space called the big bang!"
Person 1: "Cool story bro, let me know when you can confirm it without question like you did that tree"


That is literally how I work things in my mind. I am person 1.
Before anyone says anything: This is by far the stupidest argument I've ever made. If you can pick holes in it, do it, I give you whole hearted permission to do so and in fact I want you to do so. Because this argument sucks and I want to refine it.

The big bang has been confirmed. The physicists predicted that the transparency and expansion of the universe should mean that space is permeated by a radiation of 3 degrees kelvin.

This is known as the cosmic background radiation and it has been observed to be 3 degrees kelvin, just as predicted.

Yet still many religiously minded individuals insist that their faith based beliefs about the origin of everything are superior and are assumed correct unless somebody can stand and recant the entire history of the universe down to the resolution of single molecules.

This is irrational behaviour, the reason being that people don't simply admit their religious claims are wrong. They invest their emotional security and identity in them, and as valuable as those things are they should not be allowed to supercede fact.

The big bang happened. Fact. [the earth however was not created in the big bang, just for the record. Some 9 billion years passed first]

 

[Kalmor]

Yes it will. People need to simply know what a lack of respect is to know what respect is. And most people do. Therefore the respect will mean something, as people will know and appreciate it. Respect is used to keep things civil, and keep people in a good mood, or at least a better mood. A lack of respect destroys arguments and turns them into fights. Always treat others kindly, and with respect, regardless of who they are or what they've done.

Tolerance is the word you're looking for, not respect (yes I know I say this all the time). We shouldn't tolerate or respect people like Hitler...