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Eastern Block times...

Black Burn

Well-Known Gopnik
Some furries sayed that they would to see a thread where I would tell about communist times in Poland etc. Well.. There are some difficulties fir me
1. Language, translating, my english is not the best etc.
2. I don't know everything about it, so don't treat me like an expert

But if you're interested you can ask me, I don't promise that I'll answer immediately..
 
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backpawscratcher

Guest
Off topic tale, hidden so as not to derail thread

In 1944 my grandfather was shot at the battle of Monte Cassino in Italy. Unfortunately his own British Army battalion moved on without him, believing he was dead. For nearly three days he lay slowly bleeding to death on the battlefield, drifting in and out of consciousness amongst the bodies of colleagues that had fallen around him. Luckily on the third day some soldiers from the Polish Free Army stumbled across him and halting their own advance took him to a field hospital, saving his life. Although he was disabled for the rest of his life he survived the war, returning home in 1945. Two years later my mother was born.

If it weren't for those Polish soldiers I wouldn't be here, but more importantly nor would anyone in my family apart from my father. For that I can't thank your nation enough.

We used to hear about food queues in Poland that people would stand in all morning just to get basic food items like bread or vegetables. Did that happen, or was our government feeding us propaganda?
 

Black Burn

Well-Known Gopnik
Off topic tale, hidden so as not to derail thread

In 1944 my grandfather was shot at the battle of Monte Cassino in Italy. Unfortunately his own British Army battalion moved on without him, believing he was dead. For nearly three days he lay slowly bleeding to death on the battlefield, drifting in and out of consciousness amongst the bodies of colleagues that had fallen around him. Luckily on the third day some soldiers from the Polish Free Army stumbled across him and halting their own advance took him to a field hospital, saving his life. Although he was disabled for the rest of his life he survived the war, returning home in 1945. Two years later my mother was born.

If it weren't for those Polish soldiers I wouldn't be here, but more importantly nor would anyone in my family apart from my father. For that I can't thank your nation enough.

We used to hear about food queues in Poland that people would stand in all morning just to get basic food items like bread or vegetables. Did that happen, or was our government feeding us propaganda?
Queques were something that people had to struggle with all 80s, there were just to few products, peoole had to stay in it all days,sometimes even nights, for ans example my mother said that in the day and night our family members were changing to get something, every product you had to get by ration card, but yeah
In shops mostly there were only mustard and vinegar, there were a big inflation of course, every pole was a millionare and were paying for bread 1250 PLN for an example
 
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backpawscratcher

Guest
Queques were something that people had to struggle with all 80 and 70, there were just to few products, peoole had to stay in it all days,sometimes even nights, for ans example my mother said that in the day and night our family members were changing to get something, every product you had to get by ration card, but yeah
In shops mostly there were only mustard and vinegar, there were a big inflation of course, every pole was a millionare and were paying for bread 1250 PLN for an example
Sounds pretty grim. Thanks for the response.
 

Black Burn

Well-Known Gopnik
Sounds pretty grim. Thanks for the response.
Oh wait there were some exceptions, for an example when you've been a member of communist party and you were someone important, you had something reserved... And you could bribe people with a ciggaretes or alcohol... Sausage... (Yup it was more valuable than money)
 
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backpawscratcher

Guest
Oh wait there were some exceptions, for an example when you've been a member of communist party and you were someone important, you had something reserved... And you could bribe people with a ciggaretes or alcohol... Sausage... (Yup it was more valuable than money)
That's how most countries work. It's just more obvious in some than it is in others.
 

Black Burn

Well-Known Gopnik
Off topic tale, hidden so as not to derail thread

In 1944 my grandfather was shot at the battle of Monte Cassino in Italy. Unfortunately his own British Army battalion moved on without him, believing he was dead. For nearly three days he lay slowly bleeding to death on the battlefield, drifting in and out of consciousness amongst the bodies of colleagues that had fallen around him. Luckily on the third day some soldiers from the Polish Free Army stumbled across him and halting their own advance took him to a field hospital, saving his life. Although he was disabled for the rest of his life he survived the war, returning home in 1945. Two years later my mother was born.

If it weren't for those Polish soldiers I wouldn't be here, but more importantly nor would anyone in my family apart from my father. For that I can't thank your nation enough.

We used to hear about food queues in Poland that people would stand in all morning just to get basic food items like bread or vegetables. Did that happen, or was our government feeding us propaganda?
And about that WW2, story, well it's sad that people like those poles couldn't return to their motherland...
 

Mudman2001

Wolf of Many Talents
Here’s an odd one for you. How was the history of ww2 taught, specifically the Polish Army during the German Invasion? I seen and heard of stories from other form Eastern Bloc counties where famous military leaders and units were erased from history books.
 

Black Burn

Well-Known Gopnik
Here’s an odd one for you. How was the history of ww2 taught, specifically the Polish Army during the German Invasion? I seen and heard of stories from other form Eastern Bloc counties where famous military leaders and units were erased from history books.
Well, it's complicated somehow...
1. To this times a lots of poles teaches and says that western allies have betrayed us, and they didn't helped us, and on the end when we were fighting in their armies they havw sold us to soviets , It's not really how that was looking, our commanders just fucked up, and churchill threebtimes talked to Stalin about referendum on Poland but how staling were saying "It doesn't matter who votes but who counts them", even roosevelt wanted capitalistic poland but... Let's not talk about his health conditions in '45...
2. Polish Home Army were portrayed as bandits and traitors of people's Poland
3. And for and example Katyn in the communist times was did by germans not soviets
 

Black Burn

Well-Known Gopnik
And I have found some films from the 80s where we have skirmishes with MO(Civic Militia) and ZOMO (Riot Militia)
EDIT: and one more
It's from the times when we had a martial law, and very interesting moment is 5:07..
 
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Mudman2001

Wolf of Many Talents
Oh wow, to both. What sparked the protests?
 

Black Burn

Well-Known Gopnik
Maybe for a couple days I'll try to write about evolution of MO and ZOMO, but I need time and I have to read about it
 
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Black Burn

Well-Known Gopnik
Of course when you would understand polish, you would hear that the news are saying "Solidarity provocateurs and traitors are destroying our system" aaand more of this type of propaganda
 

Mudman2001

Wolf of Many Talents
1. People were sick of this system
2. Crisis
3. ANOTHER rise of food prices
Dam. From your earlier post and documentary's I've watched I don't blame them. The "banana" story is one that I won't forget.

Thanks for sharing.
 

Black Burn

Well-Known Gopnik
And in the second video, you have a strike of shipyard workers in Danzig, 1970, and there Zomo had first action, and when they have seen them, ZOMO looked like Military so they were shouting "MILITARY ON OUR SIDE" and someone in ZOMO gave stupid order... " To freak them out, shoot in the legs" well... it was pavement so with help of ribound has ended with deadly casultaties, and they've started to shoot to those strikers and bruttaly supress them
EDIT: And they were stuned by petards and tear gas
 
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Yakamaru

Spookdogg
Socialism is a shitty idea. Period. Communists crank that shit up to a 100.
 
Socialism is a shitty idea. Period. Communists crank that shit up to a 100.
Hmm, from what I remember, you are actually gaining a lot yourself by living under quite socialist system. Or its not a system, just rich parents? :3

Communism was different thing though, they were trying hard to micromanage basically everything, which lead to huge inefficiencies, that's why it had big problems with anything above basic needs.
 

churio

Well-Known Member
A lot of people from the eastern bloc say life was pretty good in the 60s and 70s and there are opinion polls that suggest there is a large portion of the population in those countries that actually liked the Soviet system better. Do you know anything about the 60s and 70s in Poland and do you understand why there is still support for that system?
 

Yakamaru

Spookdogg
Hmm, from what I remember, you are actually gaining a lot yourself by living under quite socialist system. Or its not a system, just rich parents? :3

Communism was different thing though, they were trying hard to micromanage basically everything, which lead to huge inefficiencies, that's why it had big problems with anything above basic needs.
I live on my own, so your assumption is wrong, I am afraid.

Our country use a mixed economy, but is otherwise Capitalistic and Egalitarian in nature. The only thing we have socialized is healthcare and welfare, and there are requirements for both. You won't just be handed money because you exist, nor will you be given surgery that have nothing to do with your health.

Socialism as a system doesn't work. If anything, Venezuela is the perfect example of that. In countries where it's been tried and implemented is not a good idea implemented badly. It's a shitty idea implemented properly. Using a good idea here and there doesn't mean you use a Socialist system.

Communism is Socialism taken to its fullest extent in terms of ideas. So far, Socialism as a system, both socially and economically is utter garbage. Venezuela is the perfect example of that. But ideologies/ideas are hard to kill if people have been brainwashed into thinking they actually work.
 

Black Burn

Well-Known Gopnik
A lot of people from the eastern bloc say life was pretty good in the 60s and 70s and there are opinion polls that suggest there is a large portion of the population in those countries that actually liked the Soviet system better. Do you know anything about the 60s and 70s in Poland and do you understand why there is still support for that system?
I don't know how it is in other countries, but yeah, 70s in Poland were quite good, beacuse we took a loan from Romania, and we builded what Russians told us to build and invest, and the rest we just used for products, and then shops were full etc. But in the 80s we had a crisis, and most of the people in Poland that want communism back, want to return to their childhood or they were just important party member, and well there was a situation that you know, in communism someone in work was just telling then what to do, and in 90s they had to have better education than they had, beacuse in communism basic education was enough, and then they just didn't knew what to do, so I partly understand why they want it back, but it's just nostalgia for me...
 

Pipistrele

Smart batto!
I live on my own, so your assumption is wrong, I am afraid.

Our country use a mixed economy, but is otherwise Capitalistic and Egalitarian in nature. The only thing we have socialized is healthcare and welfare, and there are requirements for both. You won't just be handed money because you exist, nor will you be given surgery that have nothing to do with your health.

Socialism as a system doesn't work. If anything, Venezuela is the perfect example of that. In countries where it's been tried and implemented is not a good idea implemented badly. It's a shitty idea implemented properly. Using a good idea here and there doesn't mean you use a Socialist system.

Communism is Socialism taken to its fullest extent in terms of ideas. So far, Socialism as a system, both socially and economically is utter garbage. Venezuela is the perfect example of that. But ideologies/ideas are hard to kill if people have been brainwashed into thinking they actually work.
One thing I can say about socialism and communism is that when it works, it works really well - USSR has a lengthy pediod of great living conditions (overshadowed by previous period of horrible ones though), China slowly goes there too, if reading the news and stuff.

Not like I defend communism in any way - I'm just kinda preventing you from going into "article-flinging sperg mode" again by offering a bit of a counterweight to your argument ^.u.^

@Black Burn Привет, соседушка! Хотел спросить, говоришь ли ты по-русски :D
 

Black Burn

Well-Known Gopnik
One thing I can say about socialism and communism is that when it works, it works really well - USSR has a lengthy pediod of great living conditions (overshadowed by previous period of horrible ones though), China slowly goes there too, if reading the news and stuff.

Not like I defend communism in any way - I'm just kinda preventing you from going into "article-flinging sperg mode" again by offering a bit of a counterweight to your argument ^.u.^
USSR has great conditions beacuse they were taking resources from their sattelites, and industry in sattelites were builded for USSR needs, in Polabd there was A joke "USSR agreed to take a wagons of potatoes if poles will send wagons with coal too"
 
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Yakamaru

Spookdogg
One thing I can say about socialism and communism is that when it works, it works really well - USSR has a lengthy pediod of great living conditions (overshadowed by previous period of horrible ones though), China slowly goes there too, if reading the news and stuff.

Not like I defend communism in any way - I'm just kinda preventing you from going into "article-flinging sperg mode" again by offering a bit of a counterweight to your argument ^.u.^

@Black Burn Привет, соседушка! Хотел спросить, говоришь ли ты по-русски :D
Eh. It works great in the short run. But when resources, and more importantly, money, runs out, the systems collapse in on itself, as have been shown constantly throughout history. Neither system is viable in the long run as far as the economy is concerned. You have no source to bring in the money from as people are not motivated to get a high-paying job. Because why bother getting a triple-digit+ salary when you will simply get your shit taxed to death anyway to support people who may not even deserve it.

The USSR is dead. Venezuela's currency, Bolivar, is worth less than World of Warcraft gold and its social infrastructures are imploding. Venezuela is a country that supposedly have large oil reserves they could use to boost the economy and create a proper infrastructure, but their oil is worthless.

Communism and Socialism are systems, socially and economically, that just can't survive on their own. They need Capitalism in order to survive, or they will slowly choke themselves to death. And when you implement a different economical system it's in essence not Socialism or Communism, but a mix.
 
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