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FA/IMVU Discussion

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FYIAD

Member
Well, for me: 1. Moving to SoFurry.

2. I wonder the same. I'm not sticking with him, certainly since there's been one issue unresolved since he 'took over' the site; still waiting for his response.

I could be wrong, but in the fifty odd pages of this thread and the thousands of comments over on Fender's posts, I do not think a single person endorsed the idea of wresting control of FA away from IMVU just to give it back to Dragoneer.

Every discussion has been about bringing control back within fandom hands; not Dragoneer's.

FA should be owned and operated by fandom folk; that is my belief and there are plenty others of similar opinion.
Let this sell be the last time the fate of the jewel of the fandom is dictated by a single entity; gone is the era of a King, now is the time for a Republic.

..or tomorrow, or whenever the opportunity arises.
 
I could be wrong, but in the fifty odd pages of this thread and the thousands of comments over on Fender's posts, I do not think a single person endorsed the idea of wresting control of FA away from IMVU just to give it back to Dragoneer.

Every discussion has been about bringing control back within fandom hands; not Dragoneer's.

FA should be owned and operated by fandom folk; that is my belief and there are plenty others of similar opinion.
Let this sell be the last time the fate of the jewel of the fandom is dictated by a single entity; gone is the era of a King, now is the time for a Republic.

..or tomorrow, or whenever the opportunity arises.

Dragoneer literally sold his chance to keep it, I want the site to go back to the fandom it it goes back at all.
 

Calemeyr

Vere Adeptus
In the QA with the CEO, no mention of how to DMCA stolen adult content that's behind the paywall without having an adult pass...I really think they want you all to still pay for an adult pass. Dick move, but it's money, and that is the goal of companies. I mean, EA and Activision do shit like this, so why not another electronic entertainment company?
 
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FYIAD

Member
In the QA with the CEO, no mention of how to DMCA stolen adult content that's behind the paywall...I really think they want you all to still pay for an adult pass. Dick move, but it's money, and that is the goal of companies.

Well, I see two ways: FA Members/Recognized Artists/Authorized agents/Whatever get free access, but that's giving away the keys to the castle in their view. It can only cost them money; it gains them nothing.
Or they can continue the system they have, which actually nets them a profit.

Come now, if you were a corporation, which way are you going to lean in the equation? You're going to take something over nothing. This isn't charity, this isn't between friends, it isn't even between fandom members; it is business, and that's the way its conducted these days.


So far as the Q&A is concerned, I would have liked it more if we had a live Q&A, but I know that's really not going to change much and, besides that, it'll never happen. The CEO offering a quickie answer to question at a rate of less than one per day, it'll never get anywhere. It's easier to glean information and gauge honesty and intent when the event isn't scripted.

C'est la vie.
 
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In the QA with the CEO, no mention of how to DMCA stolen adult content that's behind the paywall without having an adult pass...I really think they want you all to still pay for an adult pass. Dick move, but it's money, and that is the goal of companies.

There's also this.

IMVU is not today, and will not be tomorrow, an exclusively furry community. Furries are one of the many, many, many diverse audiences that meet on IMVU, to socialize and find others that understand them and share their same interests.

But my biggest fear is

"Does IMVU plan on changing FA?"

IMVU plans on supporting FA changing the site to make improvements, but FA is run independently, so changes will be determined by Dragoneer and team.

Yeah sure, Dragoneer gets to be the one to make decisions but what is to say his CEO won't write him up and go, "we need to monitize this, you can decide if we should or not but if you don't you're done.".

I know we said no laywer speak but Dragoneer lives in Virginia, and IMVU is in California. Both of these places are "at-will employment" states. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/At-will_employment
Meaning he can be fired for any reason at any time, even if in contract. There is nothing stopping them from giving him the boot if they don't like what he's doing.

The CEO says right there the furry community isn't their main focus, it's just another demographic. So once it becomes clear they're not going to make a return investment on this, then it's over.
 

Calemeyr

Vere Adeptus
Well, I see two ways: FA Members/Recognized Artists/Authorized agents/Whatever get free access, but that's giving away the keys to the castle in their view. It can only cost them money; it gains them nothing.
Or they can continue the system they have, which actually nets them a profit.

Come now, if you were a corporation, which way are you going to lean in the equation? You're going to take something over nothing. This isn't charity, this isn't between friends, it isn't even between fandom members; it is business, and that's the way its conducted these days.


So far as the Q&A is concerned, I would have liked it more if we had a live Q&A, but I know that's really not going to change much and, besides that, it'll never happen. The CEO offering a quickie answer to question at a rate of less than one per day, it'll never get anywhere. It's easier to glean information and gauge honesty and intent when the event isn't scripted.

C'est la vie.
Yep, just like on disc DLC and "freemium" candy-crush BS, electronic media companies are kinda becoming shit these days.
 

FYIAD

Member
Yep, just like on disc DLC and "freemium" candy-crush BS, electronic media companies are kinda becoming shit these days.

Yup, and all the other soul-sucking developments.

But hey, it's alright, for just $19.99 you can have the FA All Access Season Pass! (Offer does not include AP-content, purchasable items, unlockable avatars, icons, or outfits!)

Happy thoughts, though, yeah? With any luck, things won't go that far sideways (I hope).
 

Calemeyr

Vere Adeptus
Yup, and all the other soul-sucking developments.

But hey, it's alright, for just $19.99 you can have the FA All Access Season Pass! (Offer does not include AP-content, purchasable items, unlockable avatars, icons, or outfits!)

Happy thoughts, though, yeah?
But wait! If you pay $20 more, you can get the collector's edition with the 2015 Christmas Ornament and Fender T-shirt DLC!
 

Smelge

Hey, Assbutt
Yup, and all the other soul-sucking developments.

But hey, it's alright, for just $19.99 you can have the FA All Access Season Pass! (Offer does not include AP-content, purchasable items, unlockable avatars, icons, or outfits!)

Happy thoughts, though, yeah? With any luck, things won't go that far sideways (I hope).

Actually, that is something FA could have done with an an earlier stage. There are a lot of extra features that could have been added to the site and included in a premium membership. Stuff that enhances the experience but doesn't impede non-premium accounts. Things that could have been added by any halfway competent coding team.

But seemingly it's easier to run the site into a hole in the ground then sell it than actually trusting people who know what they're doing.
 
Actually, that is something FA could have done with an an earlier stage. There are a lot of extra features that could have been added to the site and included in a premium membership. Stuff that enhances the experience but doesn't impede non-premium accounts. Things that could have been added by any halfway competent coding team.

But seemingly it's easier to run the site into a hole in the ground then sell it than actually trusting people who know what they're doing.
He didn't have to do anything at all, and now he's paid to not do anything at all
 

Roshiyu

New Member
IMVU is a corporation with millions of dollars of revenues. Why should the furry community provide a service for free to mitigate their fuckups for them? Stop supporting your own exploitation.

If you really want to hit them where it hurts, hit them where the money is. Report their IMVU points cards to the major retailers that carry said cards.

After all, they generally have a policy against selling products that are linked to porn.
 

Calemeyr

Vere Adeptus
If you really want to hit them where it hurts, hit them where the money is. Report their IMVU points cards to the major retailers that carry said cards.

After all, they generally have a policy against selling products that are linked to porn.
But then they say "oh no, FA is not a porn site (despite it being founded as an all-open alternative to Sheezyart when that site banned porn)" or "but adult content requires age verification."
 
If you really want to hit them where it hurts, hit them where the money is. Report their IMVU points cards to the major retailers that carry said cards.

After all, they generally have a policy against selling products that are linked to porn.

Remember they also want to have gogole ads put up on here, Google clearly states

[h=3]Prohibited adult content (never allowed)[/h]Here are some examples of content that we don't allow:
Sexually explicit content
Text, image, audio, or video of graphic sexual acts intended to arouse Examples: Hardcore pornography; sex acts such as genital, anal, and oral sex; masturbation; cartoon porn or hentai

 

FYIAD

Member
Actually, that is something FA could have done with an an earlier stage. There are a lot of extra features that could have been added to the site and included in a premium membership. Stuff that enhances the experience but doesn't impede non-premium accounts. Things that could have been added by any halfway competent coding team.

But seemingly it's easier to run the site into a hole in the ground then sell it than actually trusting people who know what they're doing.

Maybe, but I think that would have stifled FA’s growth.

Personally, I believe that FA could run quite well on a Wikipedia/Wikimedia-style fundraiser. A nice banner on the top of the page; big enough to notice, but nothing flashy or too distracting, that would read, “If everyone who saw this ad donated $1, we could end our annual fundraiser in just a few days. Can you spare a dollar, friend?” I genuinely believe this, plus the bit of ad revenue that we get from artists and the like, would be enough to sustain FA on. I believe this even more now that the prospect of FA being hawked is fresh in people’s minds; but I’d rather not prey on people’s fears. I want this to be a community. I’m not looking for anyone to give more than they can; and I’m not looking to pick any pockets or guilt trip people into donations.

You’d be amazed what a kind word can get you in this life; and how effective gentle pitches can be when it comes to fundraising. Hell, look at the people who did the “If you ask us, we will never bother you again about a donation; however, if you can give, it would do genuine good.”-sort of campaign. It turns out it nets a very significant boost in donations despite the vast majority of donors not checking the “Never Again” box.

Last but not least, I think if FA were run more transparently and the needs more clearly communicated, the community would be more responsive to funding drives.

Anyway, just my uninformed opinion, I’ve just a bit of faith that people will do what they can to keep the fandom strong. And this isn’t unique to FA, it ought to apply to Weasyl, InkBunny, and SoFurry, too. All you have to do is actually communicate.
 
Maybe, but I think that would have stifled FA’s growth.

Personally, I believe that FA could run quite well on a Wikipedia/Wikimedia-style fundraiser. A nice banner on the top of the page; big enough to notice, but nothing flashy or too distracting, that would read, “If everyone who saw this ad donated $1, we could end our annual fundraiser in just a few days. Can you spare a dollar, friend?” I genuinely believe this, plus the bit of ad revenue that we get from artists and the like, would be enough to sustain FA on. I believe this even more now that the prospect of FA being hawked is fresh in people’s minds; but I’d rather not prey on people’s fears. I want this to be a community. I’m not looking for anyone to give more than they can; and I’m not looking to pick any pockets or guilt trip people into donations.

You’d be amazed what a kind word can get you in this life; and how effective gentle pitches can be when it comes to fundraising. Hell, look at the people who did the “If you ask us, we will never bother you again about a donation; however, if you can give, it would do genuine good.”-sort of campaign. It turns out it nets a very significant boost in donations despite the vast majority of donors not checking the “Never Again” box.

Last but not least, I think if FA were run more transparently and the needs more clearly communicated, the community would be more responsive to funding drives.

Anyway, just my uninformed opinion, I’ve just a bit of faith that people will do what they can to keep the fandom strong. And this isn’t unique to FA, it ought to apply to Weasyl, InkBunny, and SoFurry, too. All you have to do is actually communicate.

Well here is my question with money, if Dragoneer stated that FA was in no debt and was working fine, why did he even need to sell out? Was the 20K not enough to cover whatever it was he kept saying he would do? FA should have been able to upgrade or whatever and still been debt free based on what he said. Right?
 

Roshiyu

New Member
But then they say "oh no, FA is not a porn site (despite it being founded as an all-open alternative to Sheezyart when that site banned porn)" or "but adult content requires age verification."

Big(Blue chip) business may be even worse when it comes to their profit obsession. But they know the value of their family friendly reputation. You point out to then that IMVU bought out a 'furry' art site, with adult art... And only an honor system? Yeah, they have to do an independent investigation.
They'll pull the points cards, and probably force an ultimatum on IMVU before selling them again. (Well, at least Walmart. They have more then enough clout to bully anyone.)
 

FYIAD

Member
If you really want to hit them where it hurts, hit them where the money is. Report their IMVU points cards to the major retailers that carry said cards.

After all, they generally have a policy against selling products that are linked to porn.


I actually think I made a case for that before, but it may have got cut. x.x; I’ve done a lot of writing in the last few days now that I actually got forum access. (Registration verification problem jammed me up; I was going mad trying to jump in here where the real discussion was.)

While it’s out in the open, though, I’m curious to hear if anyone has a downside to this plan? I do think it would put pressure on IMVU to deal; however, I’m also not really keen on trying to encourage people to make a counter-offer and trying to put media pressure on them. That’s a personal, ethical concern on my part, though. I’m also wary of dragging the fandom into that kind of publicity, because you know the media would have a field day with all the things they could show.

It could also backfire and force IMVU’s hand and thrust drastic changes to FA with very little warning. People are prone to overreacting when the media spotlight is trained on them.

But then they say "oh no, FA is not a porn site (despite it being founded as an all-open alternative to Sheezyart when that site banned porn)" or "but adult content requires age verification."


Yeah, that’ll be an interesting line for them to walk. All the more so if the stolen art and the business model seemingly focused on skimming off ill-gotten gains could make it a very interesting story. ..but I also expect media would focus on the spectacle of furries more than the actual shady parts.

Big(Blue chip) business may be even worse when it comes to their profit obsession. But they know the value of their family friendly reputation. You point out to then that IMVU bought out a 'furry' art site, with adult art... And only an honor system? Yeah, they have to do an independent investigation.
They'll pull the points cards, and probably force an ultimatum on IMVU before selling them again. (Well, at least Walmart. They have more then enough clout to bully anyone.)

Exactly. I’d just like to think it through to see how this could do more harm than good; and, like I said above, I have some ethical qualms on a personal level. Feels a bit like a bank that purposefully tanks the value of a neighborhood, buys up the land, and then sells at a high profit margin to condo developers.

Remember they also want to have gogole ads put up on here, Google clearly states

I think this more refers to what product is being pitched, not the sort of site on which the ad will appear. Still, I’m sure there are more than a few major advertisers who would be squeamish over the prospect of having their ad hovering over a rabbit and a wolf carrying out some kinky scene reversing the predator/prey relationship. :p All with a nice ad pitching Tide, “Tide, it gets out the worst of life’s stains!” Somehow I feel like that isn’t quite the place they wanted Tide to be pitched..

Well here is my question with money, if Dragoneer stated that FA was in no debt and was working fine, why did he even need to sell out? Was the 20K not enough to cover whatever it was he kept saying he would do? FA should have been able to upgrade or whatever and still been debt free based on what he said. Right?


On that, I cannot really hazard a guess. Maybe he thought he’d leverage FA to net a steady job with reliable income? Or maybe he genuinely believes that IMVU will lead FA into a bright future. It isn’t beyond the realm of possibilities, you know? I just don’t agree with that.
 

Verin Asper

The Smart Idiot
Remember they also want to have gogole ads put up on here, Google clearly states
I actually wondered how that will be resolved...
Google Adsense while can work, if someone reports that "hey that site have porn on it" google will yank the adsense...
so these ads that we'll eventually have to probably be the same way IMVU gets their ads.

Also another set of questions:
What about the user ads? Will we still get them thru FA though profit may instead go to IMVU?
Ad Priority? Will the ads IMVU add have higher priority than the user ads?
 

Emil

Roll Fizzlebeef
I think if they're really going to try and maximize their ad revenue, then they're probably going to end up recoding the site. FA is currently a dinosaur and I don't know how much of what they would plan to do they can accomplish with the code that's here. Especially *especially* if they're going to do premium content or PA content. Probably easier to program a new site that supports pay features by default.

So even if a new site comes out, it isn't necessarily good news.

[/wildspeculation]
 
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krystalfox77

Offcial Krystal
From the IMVU CEO:

"Stolen content is bad for everybody in the community, from the author that sees their hard work being exploited to the community that misses the opportunity to connect with the author, explore their other works and even make a new friendship. IMVU wants to ensure that people only share content they have the rights to share. If stolen content is posted on the FA site, the process is likely to stay the same. If stolen art is posted on IMVU, the legal owner of the art can file a DMC"

Right, I call bullshit, in other words, "We don't give a flying shit on whether or not your copyrighted art is stolen." Gotcha. Nice move there, CEO, ol' buddy ol' pal.



 

Blitza

Member
Neer have really no Problems it seems, he made an Journal just for his Birthday..... with one word DING

Level 35 Congrats your 65 Levels away from perfection, please Train more xd
 
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