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FA/IMVU Discussion

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RTDragon

RTDragon

RTP User
Fawk said:
Oh, don't get me wrong, I understand the concern for privacy and a risk.
I believe you can verify your age without giving a SSN by using something like a drivers license (still personal information, but when verifying your identity, there is no avoiding personal information)
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I've have not seen a company that reqiures a SSN for registration or selling. That kind of business raises a lot of red flags.
 
Fawk

Fawk

I don't like people
RTDragon said:
I've have not seen a company that reqiures a SSN for registration or selling. That kind of business raises a lot of red flags.
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That is going on the assumption that they require it for a registration or sale.
You only have to verify your age if you want to get access to the adult content. Not for anything else. It is not like they are saying "verify your identity or you can't chat with people." or "verify your identity to buy IMVU credits". It is only for a specific thing that is age-restricted content, so you have to prove your age.
I also have to verify my age to buy alcohol in a store.
 
PheagleAdler

PheagleAdler

Well-Known Member
Speculating on what IMVU is going to do or not do with the site is just that: speculation. You can't compare it to not believing in gravity or getting burned by a fire.
 
krystalfox77

krystalfox77

Offcial Krystal
Fawk said:
That is not even remotely comparable.
The letter is full of opinion and speculation.
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Oh that's right, on the internet, speculation and having opinions is a big no no, and is considered the eighth deadly sin.

Having opinions = bad karma
 
-Sliqq-

-Sliqq-

Silo
krystalfox77 said:
Oh that's right, on the internet, speculation and having opinions is a big no no, and is considered the eighth deadly sin.

Having opinions = bad karma
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For the sake of writing, giving a whole lot of opinion won't prove a point at all. For example, it happens in the very threads you & I post in.
The problem is opinions & speculation not supported by reason & facts. It just makes this viewpoint on a reader: "Oh, another whiny complainer"

Just note that I haven't been able to read the whole letter :v
 
Fawk

Fawk

I don't like people
krystalfox77 said:
Oh that's right, on the internet, speculation and having opinions is a big no no, and is considered the eighth deadly sin.

Having opinions = bad karma
Click to expand...

Having opinions is not bad. Throwing your opinions out there as if they are fact is bad.
Especially when you phrase things in a way that is so blatantly meant to rile people up.

Example:
"I dislike the government and I do not like where I think the Government is heading" Opinion. Using the word "think" instead of "know" as an admission of speculation. It leaves things open for debate.
"The government is bad! It's turning people into mindless sheep who don't have the ability to defend or think for themselves!" Opinion, but stated as if it is fact and phrased in such as way as to create conflict. It insults anyone who disagrees with the statement by implying that anyone who is not in agreement is a "mindless sheep". Which immediately eliminates any debate possibility.

Now, my example is not 100% comparable to the letter, but the letter does use phrasing that is meant to cause upset. It reads less like a letter expressing disappointment to dragoneer and more like a "call to arms" for people who are upset. It uses very strong language (not foul language, but strong. Words that hold heavier meanings and the like) and has a underlying layer of self righteous intent.

If it was meant to change anyone's mind or bring light to any issue, it did a very poor job of it.
It references past events, but doesn't give any information as to what actually happened in those past events.
They talk about how patient they were in order to create a feel that they are some kind of upstanding person, to make readers think higher of them, to try and make their opinion seem more credible.
It uses a lot of speculation to back up opinions. And even makes implications that Dragoneer is not a real furry anymore.

Of course, they may not have been aware that this is how they were writing, it would not be a stretch to think the person honestly feels this way. And it would not be the first time that a person got up on a soap box and spoke like this without realizing how what they are saying is coming off. People who are upset tend to get this way.

The letter is, of course, going to sound very appealing to anyone who agrees with the opinions stated. And they are going to stand up and hold it in the air like "Here! Here! This is it!" It just gathers the like-minded together and alienates anyone who is not in agreement.

Now, I will go ahead and say that this is interpretation, this is what I gathered from the letter. I am not alone in seeing this in that letter.
 
PheagleAdler

PheagleAdler

Well-Known Member
Couldn't have said it better myself.
 
RTDragon

RTDragon

RTP User
Fawk said:
That is going on the assumption that they require it for a registration or sale.
You only have to verify your age if you want to get access to the adult content. Not for anything else. It is not like they are saying "verify your identity or you can't chat with people." or "verify your identity to buy IMVU credits". It is only for a specific thing that is age-restricted content, so you have to prove your age.
I also have to verify my age to buy alcohol in a store.
Click to expand...

I don't think you understand i have not seen any art site ask for SSN in fact if they even try to ask for that i can guarantee most will not want to give that information out.
 
Fawk

Fawk

I don't like people
RTDragon said:
I don't think you understand i have not seen any art site ask for SSN in fact if they even try to ask for that i can guarantee most will not want to give that information out.
Click to expand...
First, IMVU is not an art site. Second, the SSN is only to verify your age when purchasing access to age-restricted content.
 
alphaomegaone

alphaomegaone

Member
Fawk said:
Having opinions is not bad. Throwing your opinions out there as if they are fact is bad.
Especially when you phrase things in a way that is so blatantly meant to rile people up.

Example:
"I dislike the government and I do not like where I think the Government is heading" Opinion. Using the word "think" instead of "know" as an admission of speculation. It leaves things open for debate.
"The government is bad! It's turning people into mindless sheep who don't have the ability to defend or think for themselves!" Opinion, but stated as if it is fact and phrased in such as way as to create conflict. It insults anyone who disagrees with the statement by implying that anyone who is not in agreement is a "mindless sheep". Which immediately eliminates any debate possibility.

Now, my example is not 100% comparable to the letter, but the letter does use phrasing that is meant to cause upset. It reads less like a letter expressing disappointment to dragoneer and more like a "call to arms" for people who are upset. It uses very strong language (not foul language, but strong. Words that hold heavier meanings and the like) and has a underlying layer of self righteous intent.

If it was meant to change anyone's mind or bring light to any issue, it did a very poor job of it.
It references past events, but doesn't give any information as to what actually happened in those past events.
They talk about how patient they were in order to create a feel that they are some kind of upstanding person, to make readers think higher of them, to try and make their opinion seem more credible.
It uses a lot of speculation to back up opinions. And even makes implications that Dragoneer is not a real furry anymore.

Of course, they may not have been aware that this is how they were writing, it would not be a stretch to think the person honestly feels this way. And it would not be the first time that a person got up on a soap box and spoke like this without realizing how what they are saying is coming off. People who are upset tend to get this way.

The letter is, of course, going to sound very appealing to anyone who agrees with the opinions stated. And they are going to stand up and hold it in the air like "Here! Here! This is it!" It just gathers the like-minded together and alienates anyone who is not in agreement.

Now, I will go ahead and say that this is interpretation, this is what I gathered from the letter. I am not alone in seeing this in that letter.
Click to expand...

Tell that to Rowedahelicon

He was banned for posting opinions Dragoneer let everyone else stay because theyre angry so no one listens to them
 
T

Tchelline

Member
Dragoneer is winning. He stole the hard earned money we all gave to him to protect the site bought invisible servers, then 15 minutes later signed a contract to sell the site and stay as an employee so he can continue slacking... with the difference that now he gets paid. And his plan worked. He just had to wait a couple of weeks for people to cool off and finally accept the knife in their backs.

Maybe Dragoneer is not such an idiot. Mabe he knows us very well, because he managed to get his way with all the furries once again, because furries forget fast and easy.
 
F

FYIAD

Member
Tchelline said:
Dragoneer is winning. He stole the hard earned money we all gave to him to protect the site bought invisible servers, then 15 minutes later signed a contract to sell the site and stay as an employee so he can continue slacking... with the difference that now he gets paid. And his plan worked. He just had to wait a couple of weeks for people to cool off and finally accept the knife in their backs.

Maybe Dragoneer is not such an idiot. Mabe he knows us very well, because he managed to get his way with all the furries once again, because furries forget fast and easy.
Click to expand...

Cheery thoughts, those.

We are as dogs tied to a cart, and so compelled to go wherever it dictates we go. What choice have we? There is no collar so tight that struggling against the cart’s pull would choke us less than moving along beside. It isn’t the situation we want and we’re keen to go out of it, but for the moment things are what they are. (Yeah, I bummed it from the Stoics; it fits the situation, I think.)

Don’t take complacent trotting to be agreeableness or bad memory; at least, not for all involved. Folks aren’t seeing a way out, and flailing just wastes time and energy; panic does you in quicker.

So aside from what all has been done, trying to get people to spread their presence and rely less on FA as a hub – and aside from those willing trying to pool together to try to buy FA back – what more is there to do?

That ain’t me being facetious, it’s a genuine question: what more is there to be done?

You can loathe the bank to the point you’re foaming at the mouth, and you can resist them taking your house by bolting the doors and shuddering the windows so they have to forcibly remove you, and you can even leave the local branch to burn down to nothing more than ash and slag; but all of that doesn’t change the fact that they just jacked your home.

Still, you’re right. People move on, it’s what they do. Change is hard and its slow and most just don’t have the time or inclination. Plenty of those folks, I’m sure, they’re never in short supply; but for me, I just don’t see a move to make.
 
Charrio

Charrio

Artistic Mouse
FYIAD said:
Cheery thoughts, those.

We are as dogs tied to a cart, and so compelled to go wherever it dictates we go. What choice have we? There is no collar so tight that struggling against the cart’s pull would choke us less than moving along beside. It isn’t the situation we want and we’re keen to go out of it, but for the moment things are what they are. (Yeah, I bummed it from the Stoics; it fits the situation, I think.)

Don’t take complacent trotting to be agreeableness or bad memory; at least, not for all involved. Folks aren’t seeing a way out, and flailing just wastes time and energy; panic does you in quicker.

So aside from what all has been done, trying to get people to spread their presence and rely less on FA as a hub – and aside from those willing trying to pool together to try to buy FA back – what more is there to do?

That ain’t me being facetious, it’s a genuine question: what more is there to be done?

You can loathe the bank to the point you’re foaming at the mouth, and you can resist them taking your house by bolting the doors and shuddering the windows so they have to forcibly remove you, and you can even leave the local branch to burn down to nothing more than ash and slag; but all of that doesn’t change the fact that they just jacked your home.

Still, you’re right. People move on, it’s what they do. Change is hard and its slow and most just don’t have the time or inclination. Plenty of those folks, I’m sure, they’re never in short supply; but for me, I just don’t see a move to make.
Click to expand...

The only thing we can do as artists is, expand our other galleries and be more active on other sites, visiting the forums and being vocal.
Say hi to artists you know from FA and reconnect, slowly rebuilding the connections we have here. It sucks but it's something i think a lot
of us were stalling on.

As to FA, we can only wait and watch hoping for the best.
But we don't have to stay when changes come that are drastic and community killing.
Such as a Credit Card needed to have a full account or such.

I Have NO Faith in Dragoneer.
I have watched him for years, and things have gone up and down.
Some of his decisions are purely self interests and biased, the whole It's his site HIS law attitude which he
has every right to, but makes him seem self important and douchey.

So until I know if this site will die like MySpace did and we migrate to a new one, I'll be here as normal but also
filling out my other galleries. Will have to stop adding FA in my watermark, Maybe Weasyl, InkBunny, SoFurry, DeviantArt or something.
You know it's bad when InkBunny is on the list of possible alternatives lol
 
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Charrio

Charrio

Artistic Mouse
This is a Double post of sorts I know, So please forgive that.
I had a question which didn't have anything to do with my last post.

Is it OK for us to start a thread asking IMVU Directly instead of this, Dragoneer thing?
Since he is just a hired goon now, can we talk to the Bosses?
 
T

Tchelline

Member
FYIAD said:
Cheery thoughts, those.

We are as dogs tied to a cart, and so compelled to go wherever it dictates we go. What choice have we? There is no collar so tight that struggling against the cart’s pull would choke us less than moving along beside. It isn’t the situation we want and we’re keen to go out of it, but for the moment things are what they are. (Yeah, I bummed it from the Stoics; it fits the situation, I think.)

Don’t take complacent trotting to be agreeableness or bad memory; at least, not for all involved. Folks aren’t seeing a way out, and flailing just wastes time and energy; panic does you in quicker.

So aside from what all has been done, trying to get people to spread their presence and rely less on FA as a hub – and aside from those willing trying to pool together to try to buy FA back – what more is there to do?

That ain’t me being facetious, it’s a genuine question: what more is there to be done?

You can loathe the bank to the point you’re foaming at the mouth, and you can resist them taking your house by bolting the doors and shuddering the windows so they have to forcibly remove you, and you can even leave the local branch to burn down to nothing more than ash and slag; but all of that doesn’t change the fact that they just jacked your home.

Still, you’re right. People move on, it’s what they do. Change is hard and its slow and most just don’t have the time or inclination. Plenty of those folks, I’m sure, they’re never in short supply; but for me, I just don’t see a move to make.
Click to expand...

That is where you are wrong. This site might legally belong to X entity, but what makes this site worth at all are the artists. If artists leave, this site has less value than a soda bottle. We are the ones who built the site, we qthe qrtists. Dragoneer believe he has any relevance in the site, but he was just a legal figure. We must teach him that the ones who made FA are we, and let him rot with his asinine plans next to Imvu.
 
Charrio

Charrio

Artistic Mouse
Tchelline said:
That is where you are wrong. This site might legally belong to X entity, but what makes this site worth at all are the artists. If artists leave, this site has less value than a soda bottle. We are the ones who built the site, we qthe qrtists. Dragoneer believe he has any relevance in the site, but he was just a legal figure. We must teach him that the ones who made FA are we, and let him rot with his asinine plans next to Imvu.
Click to expand...

I hate what is happening to the site but have an issue with this.

OK Think of it this way.
Say Dragoneer owns the Oscar Meyer wiener mobile.
Now many people will say this car is iconic and classic and wonderful.

Now say, Dragoneer sold this car, everyone who loves this car is upset and they feel it really has some
historical/sentimental value to them.

This value does nothing to change the fact Dragoneer owned the car and has every right to sell it, regardless of how car
fans loved that car. People can get upset and rage but in the end the owner has every right to sell his property. Imagine
people raging at you for selling a building you own but they feel is a public icon.

The point is we can get mad all we want and it doesn't matter it's not our call on that.
It sucks but nothing we can do about an owner selling his stuff, we can however leave this site or area and congregate someplace else.
Just pray it's not like a new owner and will tear the place down to remake it into their home/business
 
T

Tchelline

Member
Charrio said:
I hate what is happening to the site but have an issue with this.

OK Think of it this way.
Say Dragoneer owns the Oscar Meyer wiener mobile.
Now many people will say this car is iconic and classic and wonderful.

Now say, Dragoneer sold this car, everyone who loves this car is upset and they feel it really has some
historical/sentimental value to them.

This value does nothing to change the fact Dragoneer owned the car and has every right to sell it, regardless of how car
fans loved that car. People can get upset and rage but in the end the owner has every right to sell his property. Imagine
people raging at you for selling a building you own but they feel is a public icon.

The point is we can get mad all we want and it doesn't matter it's not our call on that.
It sucks but nothing we can do about an owner selling his stuff, we can however leave this site or area and congregate someplace else.
Just pray it's not like a new owner and will tear the place down to remake it into their home/business
Click to expand...

bad analogy kid, the people who made the car got paid to do that. Furries, on the other hand, made this site big and famous for no payment at all. Dragoneer just stole our glory.
 
Charrio

Charrio

Artistic Mouse
Tchelline said:
bad analogy kid, the people who made the car got paid to do that. Furries, on the other hand, made this site big and famous for no payment at all. Dragoneer just stole our glory.
Click to expand...

LOL thank you, haven't been called KID in years heh
I love how you say, OUR Glory.

Yes Dragoneer is reaping the rewards of the users who have been here now and in the past.
Users don't pay for anything tho, donators do however. Artists have used this free site to gain popularity
and fame, as well as a career for many. Why would someone pay YOU or any Artist to post your stuff
on the site?

That is what Paysites are for, this was a gallery for you to share stuff with and make connections. People
turned it into a career site, at no point was the site focused on commissions.

Dragoneer has benefited the most from this it seems and that sucks, but that is life.
People will always be selfish and liars taking advantage of another's work for their own gain.
That does suck, but it's not like we own anything here or paid for it unless like i said you're a donator fur.

I think I'm not saying it correctly, so forgive if I'm not making much sense.
 
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