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FA Policy Notice - "Cub" Art

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k454i

Herpnerd
Ok hold on... are they also banning art that isn't furry? Like, not just the cub/shota whatever. But um, is this going to be another strictly furry site now or not?

I personally feel all of it should be allowed (in regards to cub/shota), so long as it isn't a drawing of say, Macauley Culkin (sp?) or something- when it's obviously a fantasy character. Elves dont REALLY exist either, you see.
 

Alchera

Member
k454i said:
Ok hold on... are they also banning art that isn't furry? Like, not just the cub/shota whatever. But um, is this going to be another strictly furry site now or not?

I personally feel all of it should be allowed (in regards to cub/shota), so long as it isn't a drawing of say, Macauley Culkin (sp?) or something- when it's obviously a fantasy character. Elves dont REALLY exist either, you see.

I beleive they implying depictions of humans. Though...they also say human based--wouldn't anthros also be human based since is a humanization of an animal? Well, I'm not going to get into that.
 

N3X15

Member
Dragoneer said:
The rules will change so that art depicting human children in sexual situations will no longer be allowed -- this includes Anime series. The law is specific. Furries are not real, and thus cub art is not permitted. The law, however, is specific as to humans, and they are no longer permitted.

Human Kid art is B&, but now I'm confused about the cub art. The decision says its OK, but that quote says it isn't.

WAHT DA FUX
 

Alchera

Member
N3X15 said:
Dragoneer said:
The rules will change so that art depicting human children in sexual situations will no longer be allowed -- this includes Anime series. The law is specific. Furries are not real, and thus cub art is not permitted. The law, however, is specific as to humans, and they are no longer permitted.

Human Kid art is B&, but now I'm confused about the cub art.  The decision says its OK, but that quote says it isn't.

WAHT DA FUX


It looks like it means strictly humans, and Anime. Nekomata, Kemonomini...whatever that is...would be in Anime, no?
 
k454i said:
Ok hold on... are they also banning art that isn't furry? Like, not just the cub/shota whatever. But um, is this going to be another strictly furry site now or not?

Due to laws surrounding the issue, it would be extremely unwise for the admins to allow many forms of explicit non-furry art. Photographic art is an obvious one, since FA doesn't have a system in place to comply with record-keping laws.
 

Midnite

Member
Excellent decision

To be honest i feel that there are alot of injustices in the world, and its better for every person to sit down and try to see the light through anothers eyes, and everyone desrves to be heard, and to live in a world where they are acknowledged and respected.

But its about doing things the right way, to make ppl happy, about accepting the limitations of yourself and your acts towards others, and also setting limitations around yourself, for the sake of those around you too.
 

KCat

New Member
If you want a full list of names, you're welcome to read them in my journal.
I still don't know how accurate that list is. I've seen names on it that shouldn't be, namely KaputOtter and XianJaguar, and I'd also ask about Kaji and Nimrais since I also watch them, haven't seen them make any journal posts about it (and Nimrais just made a post today, 11/05), and Nimrais, at least, hasn't said anything in her LJ either. So, I'm curious to where you get these names from.
 

Alchera

Member
KCat said:
If you want a full list of names, you're welcome to read them in my journal.
I still don't know how accurate that list is. I've seen names on it that shouldn't be, namely KaputOtter and XianJaguar, and I'd also ask about Kaji and Nimrais since I also watch them, haven't seen them make any journal posts about it (and Nimrais just made a post today, 11/05), and Nimrais, at least, hasn't said anything in her LJ either. So, I'm curious to where you get these names from.

Rumors and speculation.
 

verix

some dragon
CaptainSaicin said:
If you want a full list of names, you're welcome to read them in my journal.
http://www.furaffinity.net/journal/51387/
That's not "overwhelming." That's idly significant. How many artists and users does FurAffinity boast, exactly? How many other amazing artists go unrecognized which haven't really voiced an opinion in this issue, or a care, for that matter? Certainly, I can understand why people will leave, and if they want to, frankly, they're free to. But most people who complain and say that they will leave don't truly wind up following through with it.

Compare this to the number of people who are willing to truly go through with your boycott, and I suspect you'll notice that your rhetoric is exaggerated.
CaptainSaicin said:
It's people leaving because they have strong moral standards and beliefs which have been violated. Something people like you don't seem to understand about people with strong moral standards, is that they say what they mean, and they always mean what they say.
I'm willing to take a 24 hour ban for this: fuck you. Get off your fucking high horse, you hoi polloi piece of shit.

So you're going to tell me that I'm immoral because I'm calling you out for your bullshit scaremongering tactics? By your iron-fisted rule-of-majority argumentative ideals? I'm immoral because I'm defending a side you disagree with?

All YOU are doing is trying to pander against others by fucking scaring them into thinking that the entire community is going to collapse just because a few artist say they're going to leave. All I'm doing is saying "no, you're wrong, and I doubt you can prove it." So what the fuck does this make me now, you fucking idiotic prick? A pedophile? Well then BRING ON THE CUBS, BECAUSE I'VE GOT SOME GOD DAMN FUCKIN' TO DO!

Are you honestly going to assume that every single one of these people who are leaving is high and mighty? All-moral, all-willing? Chris Sawyer has the representation of being called HORSE FUCKER, for CHRIST'S SAKE. Is that person moral just because he's taking YOUR SIDE?

You're retarded. Plain and simple. You are mentally challenged; you're an idiot, a dunce; you're "a bit slow in the head." Every single thing I've said here can certainly sum up to an ad hominem attack, but it's well-warranted if you're going to come after me and assume that I'm simply attacking those people for their decision and morality, indeed, that I don't understand them. I am not. I am calling you out for your bullshit arguments.

Fuck you, CaptainSaicin. Fuck you and the horse you rode in on.
 

Arshes Nei

Masticates in Public
Alchera said:
Though, there is a chance the fight could trickle down to all 30,000 members long after this problem is solved. You have some people who do not log on every day or every week, or fews weeks, I'm sure. This argument will keep coming up again, nor matter how much awareness if given. Now, I'm sure if 10,000 or so artists up and left, then that may something to worry about?

Did you ever consider, that when the cub stuff is allowed it will only be on the condition the AH filter would be in place? Since that filter would be already set to ON, how do they see something unless....mislabled of course. Stuff that's already on there is far in the backlogs of browsing, so it's only when people see the new stuff they'll notice it IF the AH filter was removed.

That means even if this new ruling is in place, chances are those that log on infrequently will NEVER BE AWARE OF THE CHANGE.
 

Alchera

Member
verix said:
CaptainSaicin said:
If you want a full list of names, you're welcome to read them in my journal.
http://www.furaffinity.net/journal/51387/
That's not "overwhelming." That's idly significant. How many artists and users does FurAffinity boast, exactly? How many other amazing artists go unrecognized which haven't really voiced an opinion in this issue, or a care, for that matter? Certainly, I can understand why people will leave, and if they want to, frankly, they're free to. But most people who complain and say that they will leave don't truly wind up following through with it.

Compare this to the number of people who are willing to truly go through with your boycott, and I suspect you'll notice that your rhetoric is exaggerated.
CaptainSaicin said:
It's people leaving because they have strong moral standards and beliefs which have been violated. Something people like you don't seem to understand about people with strong moral standards, is that they say what they mean, and they always mean what they say.
I'm willing to take a 24 hour ban for this: fuck you. Get off your fucking high horse, you hoi polloi piece of shit.

So you're going to tell me that I'm immoral because I'm calling you out for your bullshit scaremongering tactics? By your iron-fisted rule-of-majority argumentative ideals? I'm immoral because I'm defending a side you disagree with?

All YOU are doing is trying to pander against others by fucking scaring them into thinking that the entire community is going to collapse just because a few artist say they're going to leave. All I'm doing is saying "no, you're wrong, and I doubt you can prove it." So what the fuck does this make me now, you fucking idiotic prick? A pedophile? Well then BRING ON THE CUBS, BECAUSE I'VE GOT SOME GOD DAMN FUCKIN' TO DO!

Are you honestly going to assume that every single one of these people who are leaving is high and mighty? All-moral, all-willing? Chris Sawyer has the representation of being called HORSE FUCKER, for CHRIST'S SAKE. Is that person moral just because he's taking YOUR SIDE?

You're retarded. Plain and simple. You are mentally challenged; you're an idiot, a dunce; you're "a bit slow in the head." Every single thing I've said here can certainly sum up to an ad hominem attack, but it's well-warranted if you're going to come after me and assume that I'm simply attacking those people for their decision and morality, indeed, that I don't understand them. I am not. I am calling you out for your bullshit arguments.

Fuck you, CaptainSaicin. Fuck you and the horse you rode in on.

[size=xx-large]HEY![/size] What did Dragoneer say? It doesn't matter that you're willing to suffer a ban, but God damn. Listen up!

Right now, everyone needs to avoid impulse. If you're going to reply here, please take time to sit down and think your responses so you don't start throwing mud at one another. Remember why we are here, at the community in the first place. We aren't here to be a congress that is always throwing shit at one another. We're here for a common reason. And you know what I see right now? A bunch of children who are bickering at one another; Fight! Fight! Fight! You guys fight before the vote, you fight during the vote, you fight after the vote is closed, and now fights are starting here with derogatory remarks towards other members. That's really brilliant. You award the Administration team with slander towards one another. You should be ashamed of yourselves. Remember this is a privately owned site? The Admins make the rules, and the players must abide by the rules in order to win for the team.  Sure, there may be decisions you guys don't like, and sure there will be hard feelings, but attacking one another here on the forums, there on FA itself in shouts, journals, and comments on artwork, and furthermore on Deviant Art and other websites is not going to help. And this, seen by people not of our own groups will think us as bunch of raging emos. Who's resposibility is it to make our group function? It is ours. Who's responsibility is it for the image we portray as Anthro Artists and members of FA, and in broad terms, the FC? Us. And look what you're doing.

Edit: Arshes, I mean through the journals where people are bickering.
 

SilverAutomatic

The Sound of Madness
Alchera said:
KCat said:
If you want a full list of names, you're welcome to read them in my journal.
I still don't know how accurate that list is. I've seen names on it that shouldn't be, namely KaputOtter and XianJaguar, and I'd also ask about Kaji and Nimrais since I also watch them, haven't seen them make any journal posts about it (and Nimrais just made a post today, 11/05), and Nimrais, at least, hasn't said anything in her LJ either. So, I'm curious to where you get these names from.

Rumors and speculation.

Rumors, specualtion, 3rd party information, or heresay doesn't amount to actual evidence.
 

neowolf

New Member
Why is it no one seems to realize that taking either stance to the extreme is stepping up on a moral high horse. Whether you're against the decision or even for it. The admins made a decision on a close call. With how the vote went arguably they could've gone either way and been respecting the opinions of the site to the best of their ability. Either way being a cry baby about not getting your way or an ass to those that just don't like the decision is just mindless trolling. If people don't like the decision it's certainly their right to leave. (Freedom of expression and all entails choosing where you want to after all.) Not everyone that's doing it's making a hissy fit of it. (And in that vein, if you're not the person leaving don't bring them into it unless they've at least asked you to whine for them.)
 

cesarin

Famous Huggable Dragon
ebonyleopard said:
So why can't we have fursuit sex photos uploaded? How come that get's censored now? It's art and free expression.
I hope you're being sarcastic, if not, you're scaring me Lamar!! XD

neowolf said:
Why is it no one seems to realize that taking either stance to the extreme is stepping up on a moral high horse. Whether you're against the decision or even for it. The admins made a decision on a close call. With how the vote went arguably they could've gone either way and been respecting the opinions of the site to the best of their ability. Either way being a cry baby about not getting your way or an ass to those that just don't like the decision is just mindless trolling. If people don't like the decision it's certainly their right to leave. (Freedom of expression and all entails choosing where you want to after all.) Not everyone that's doing it's making a hissy fit of it. (And in that vein, if you're not the person leaving don't bring them into it unless they've at least asked you to whine for them.)


problem is.. these guys keep with their bullshit of "ohh noes im leaving until you do this.." over and over, but yet they dont LEAVE!
hell they just want to feel dramatic, whoring the attention .
the door always opens but they walk like 5% of the distance to said door to just insult back.. then walk another 5% and soon..
 

Rilest

New Member
Dragoneer said:
1) the term “indistinguishable” used with respect to a depiction, means virtually indistinguishable, in that the depiction is such that an ordinary person viewing the depiction would conclude that the depiction is of an actual minor engaged in sexually explicit conduct. This definition does not apply to depictions that are drawings, cartoons, sculptures, or paintings depicting minors or adults.
Note on US code Title 18, Chapter 2256


There are many kinds of activities which are illegal: rape, drug use, incest, bestiality, driving a car too fast, smoking a cigarette in a pub, etc. The list could go on and on. In some countries, homosexuality, democracy, freedom of speech and free-thinking are outlawed, held hostage under tight regimes, the penalties of which are anything but gentle. Some people have spent their entire lives in jail for exercising their independence.

Fur Affinity allows users to post art based on all of the above interests with no repercussions.

According to law based in the United States, furry art does not fall under the restrictions imposed towards pedophilia, and while similar, it is not the same thing. No actual child is hurt by the depiction in the art. Furries do not exist in real life, and as such are nothing more than imaginative xenomorphic entities. Given that, we feel that it is in our best interest as a website not to censor cub-related art.

If, however, we feel that the any art uploaded to Fur Affinity is based off of a real child, or meant to represent a real child, we will take action against that user and report them to the proper authorities and pull their artwork. The administration behind Fur Affinity does not, and will not, ever support pedophilia. We will, however, choose and defend people's rights to freedom of expression and choice.

The original Terms of Service, which has been undergoing re-write, did prohibit posting of such artwork. The rules have been under review for some time now and have been discussed as we move to revise our documentation. The rules have changed over time, and the TOS has not been updated to reflect these changes. We expect to have an updated TOS within the next two weeks to reflect changes made in time.

In the near future we will implement a series of filters to allow people to block and exclude art of all content types, giving them better control of how they use the Fur Affinity service. A great many people voiced that they felt for and against the art, but would be able to cope with given a proper filtration system was implemented on the site. We feel that this is the best method possible. Put the control and power in the hands of users for them to choose their own path.

We understand that many of you may not agree with this decision, but we felt that it was in the best interest of the site not to act as moral judges, not to choose for users what is ethically right or wrong. Why should cub art be the ultimate evil, when artistic depictions of rape, murder and drug use, all of which are quite illegal in the real world, are posted with no complaint? When do morals begin and end? Why does one moral high road state that cub art is the end all, be all of evil yet art depicting rape does not get the same brunt of the hate?

There are many things that we, as individuals, object to and find find repulsive, but as people, as individuals, we have both the power and ultimate responsibility to make our own decisions. The right belongs to the people to exercise their power of choice. They can choose not to look at a submission, pass it by, +fav or even opt out of using the entire website.

We understand this is not the popular decision with users, but we choose to represent the ideals of freedom of speech and the right for individuals to make their own decisions as to what they view.

Fur Affinity
Where Freedom of Expression Reigns

People erupting drama in this thread may find their forum account meeting a 24 hour suspension. Flames/insults will not be tolerated. Counter flaming/insults will also LIKEWISE not be tolerated.




My Friend, I salute you, this could not have been handle any better. Complete show of outstanding leadership. His word is Law people, and he actually did research on the law, and his decition is the law!.

No more drama, no more flaming. Alas... It is writen in stone now!.

Night People, one of the great debates of all times trully.
 

Hanazawa

Would Like To Play a Game
ebonyleopard said:
So why can't we have fursuit sex photos uploaded? How come that get's censored now? It's art and free expression.

I think fursuit sex implicitly falls under the category of human photographic nudity/sex, which isn't allowed. That's just my observation and guess, though.
 

Ashkihyena

Back off man, I'm a scientist
My Friend, I salute you, this could not have been handle any better. Complete show of outstanding leadership. His word is Law people, and he actually did research on the law, and his decition is the law!.

No more drama, no more flaming. Alas... It is writen in stone now!.

Night People, one of the great debates of all times trully.

I guess you haven't seen some of the post here, and some of the journals around the site, even though its in stone, theres still going to be griping, bitching, flaming, etc.[/quote]
 

Wookiee

New Member
I am glad to see the final decision addressed the concerns I had. There are many things I dislike when it comes to furry art but to get so upset over just one while no one bothered to address the rest didn't seem to make sence. I am glad for this well thought out decision and think increasing the filters is a great idea.

Thanks Dragoneer (the the rest of the FA staff) for keeping this site a great place for artists to express their artistic freedome, even if I don't happen to agree with them.

http://www.furaffinity.net/view/275789/
 

Luna Nuri

Member
Dragoneer..please lock the thread...
 

kieranwolf

New Member
Thanks, admins, and I respect Dragoneer's decision to the utmost.

Being tolerant to others' views, and even their kinks, is a sign of both maturity and an affinity for reason.

Embrace openness, folks. Or else ignore it until the filters get turned on. Things will be less convenient for those who want to view the potentially offensive stuff, after all.
 

Alchera

Member
Yes, the thread needs to be locked. I know it might undermine, or appear to support undermining Dragoneer, but I got to say it: If an admin has a power lock this, it needs to be locked. It will only escalate. Someone lock it.
 
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