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FA Policy Notice - "Cub" Art

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Rilest

New Member
Ashkihyena said:
My Friend, I salute you, this could not have been handle any better. Complete show of outstanding leadership. His word is Law people, and he actually did research on the law, and his decition is the law!.

No more drama, no more flaming. Alas... It is writen in stone now!.

Night People, one of the great debates of all times trully.

I guess you haven't seen some of the post here, and some of the journals around the site, even though its in stone, theres still going to be griping, bitching, flaming, etc.
[/quote]

Yeah, they will still be, but the law already have been passed, if they don't like it people can still leave FA, I mean, nobody is holding them to stay right? ... I do wonder where are they going to go though, SA? DA? YG?, they will complain and bitch, but they would not leave, now with thing like Acrturus coming back as I heard, thing might get quite nasty, but what you all expect it is all part of a circle. Now if I was a admin, I would damn right be neutral with everybody and hear their parts, but once a decition is taken I would take deaf ear to any complaining about the matter or anything related.

AFTER ALL PEOPLE... FA IS FREE!, WE HAVE TO THANKS PREYFAR FOR GIVING US A PLACE TO POST OUR ART AND THAT HE IS NOT CHARGING US ANYTHING!

That is all

Yes, do lock the tread and let the past be past! Amen.
 

Alchera

Member
Rilest said:
Ashkihyena said:
My Friend, I salute you, this could not have been handle any better.  Complete show of outstanding leadership.  His word is Law people, and he actually did research on the law, and his decition is the law!.

No more drama, no more flaming.  Alas... It is writen in stone now!.

Night People,  one of the great debates of all times trully.

I guess you haven't seen some of the post here, and some of the journals around the site, even though its in stone, theres still going to be griping, bitching, flaming, etc.

Yeah, they will still be, but the law already have been passed, if they don't like it people can still leave FA, I mean, nobody is holding them to stay right? ... I do wonder where are they going to go though, SA? DA? YG?, they will complain and bitch, but they would not leave,  now with thing like Acrturus coming back as I heard, thing might get quite nasty, but what you all expect it is all part of a circle.  Now if I was a admin, I would damn right be neutral with everybody and hear their parts, but once a decition is taken I would take deaf ear to any complaining about the matter or anything related.  

AFTER ALL PEOPLE... FA IS FREE!, WE HAVE TO THANKS PREYFAR FOR GIVING US A PLACE TO POST OUR ART AND THAT HE IS NOT CHARGING US ANYTHING!

That is all
[/quote]

Yes, most certainly. I don't think people are appreciative of how much Dragoneer goes through to keep this place up. And its beginning to seem like people don't care about the other Admins for that matter.
 

DavidN

Member
I have a feeling that if the admins lock this thread, it'll just explode all over the other boards again...

I've just been watching all this without expressing an opinion, and I think the decision that Dragoneer posted is well-explained enough to at least be understandable to everyone even if they don't agree with it.

Optimism!
 

ebonyleopard

New Member
cesarin said:
ebonyleopard said:
So why can't we have fursuit sex photos uploaded? How come that get's censored now? It's art and free expression.
I hope you're being sarcastic, if not, you're scaring me Lamar!! XD

neowolf said:
Why is it no one seems to realize that taking either stance to the extreme is stepping up on a moral high horse. Whether you're against the decision or even for it. The admins made a decision on a close call. With how the vote went arguably they could've gone either way and been respecting the opinions of the site to the best of their ability. Either way being a cry baby about not getting your way or an ass to those that just don't like the decision is just mindless trolling. If people don't like the decision it's certainly their right to leave. (Freedom of expression and all entails choosing where you want to after all.) Not everyone that's doing it's making a hissy fit of it. (And in that vein, if you're not the person leaving don't bring them into it unless they've at least asked you to whine for them.)


Not really, why should artistic furry expression be limited to just paper? This is the site for freedom of expression, and photography is just another form of art, so technically since fursuits are indeed furry related and are already posted on the site, why should fursuit sex be banned and censored. Not like you know or see the person in the suit, for all visual purposes it's just 3D anthros screwing just like in the digital 3D art. I mean, lt's go all the way, down with censorship of any kind.

It once was permitted on FA afterall, I remember seeing pics of guys with totally nothing on in their gallery when FA first started, granted, those pictutes didn't have them in like body paint or anything but, if this truly is the furry site of expression of all fetishes and artistic endeavors why should one thing be censored and something else not be. Seems hypocritical.
 

ferretsage

Well-Known Member
I respect Dragoneer's decision. This was a rough call, and the admins/moderators deserve several blowjobs for being trussed out into the judgement arena to settle our collective squabbling at the expense of their reputation with some of the people on this site.

Maybe this is a suck-up post, but I really do feel sympathy with those involved in this decision.

Thank you for preserving free expression -- even when the topic is something few would invite to marry their daughters.
 

Alchera

Member
ebonyleopard said:
cesarin said:
ebonyleopard said:
So why can't we have fursuit sex photos uploaded? How come that get's censored now? It's art and free expression.
I hope you're being sarcastic, if not, you're scaring me Lamar!! XD

neowolf said:
Why is it no one seems to realize that taking either stance to the extreme is stepping up on a moral high horse. Whether you're against the decision or even for it. The admins made a decision on a close call. With how the vote went arguably they could've gone either way and been respecting the opinions of the site to the best of their ability. Either way being a cry baby about not getting your way or an ass to those that just don't like the decision is just mindless trolling. If people don't like the decision it's certainly their right to leave. (Freedom of expression and all entails choosing where you want to after all.) Not everyone that's doing it's making a hissy fit of it. (And in that vein, if you're not the person leaving don't bring them into it unless they've at least asked you to whine for them.)


Not really, why should artistic furry expression be limited to just paper? This is the site for freedom of expression, and photography is just another form of art, so technically since fursuits are indeed furry related and are already posted on the site, why should fursuit sex be banned and censored. Not like you know or see the person in the suit, for all visual purposes it's just 3D anthros screwing just like in the digital 3D art. I mean, lt's go all the way, down with censorship of any kind.

It once was permitted on FA afterall, I remember seeing pics of guys with totally nothing on in their gallery when FA first started, granted, those pictutes didn't have them in like body paint or anything but, if this truly is the furry site of expression of all fetishes and artistic endeavors why should one thing be censored and something else not be. Seems hypocritical.

It is true that fursuits are art, but people having sex in them is a whole other matter. Under those suits are people. This is why. All one would have to do is remove a suit and boom you have porn. The fact they would be having sex denotes porn--and the law would see the same way.
 

Dereck Dingo

Shady Lurker
I can empathize with how hard it must have been, Dragoneer, and all the other Admins too, to come to this decision. During this entire situation, I repeatedly second guessed my own decision and vote in the poll (that I only found later that my vote was rendered useless in the face of false account voting). I'd nearly reached a road block in my own set of "morals". I am no fan of cub art. I do not find it appealing in the slightest. As insults were flying, I stayed out of the fray, but couldn't help but feel that those opposing this measure would all too quickly lable me "immoral" and/or "pedophile" if they knew of my opposition to the ban. Those thoughts didn't sit well with me, and yes, they haunted me a little after making my decision and casting my vote.

However, what carried me through and helped me to stand by my decision without backing down was my sincere faith in freedom of expression, correlated with the current standing laws in the United States regarding artistic depiction of minors.

That said, I applaud the decision of the Fur Affinity Administrators and staff in reaching the best compromise that could be afforded. Once completed, the filters will be put to good use by myself and many other users of Fur Affinity. And my personal thanks go out to all those involved who helped in the decision making that resulted in continued freedom of expression for all those who interact in this community. As well, my personal respect has been earned by those in the community who didn't stoop to mudslinging, who didn't resort to spamming and childish name calling, or flaunting "holier than thou" attitudes regarding comparison of moral standards and personal values. It seems there are very few that did abstain from those actions, and they deserve the respect of the Furry community as a whole, regardless of their support, opposition, or indifference of the ban.

As for me, my nest here at Fur Affinity feels much more comfortable and secure now that a decision, and really this decision in particular, has been reached. Had it gone the other way, I doubt with certainty that I would have left. But now, I am 100% certain that, barring a massive technological failure or heavy distraction from real life matters, I'll will remain a member of the Fur Affinity community for a very, very long time.

"Fur Affinity: Where Freedom of Expression Reigns!"

~Dereck Dingo
 
We understand that many of you may not agree with this decision, but we felt that it was in the best interest of the site not to act as moral judges, not to choose for users what is ethically right or wrong. Why should cub art be the ultimate evil, when artistic depictions of rape, murder and drug use, all of which are quite illegal in the real world, are posted with no complaint? When do morals begin and end? Why does one moral high road state that cub art is the end all, be all of evil yet art depicting rape does not get the same brunt of the hate?

There are many things that we, as individuals, object to and find find repulsive, but as people, as individuals, we have both the power and ultimate responsibility to make our own decisions. The right belongs to the people to exercise their power of choice. They can choose not to look at a submission, pass it by, +fav or even opt out of using the entire website.

We understand this is not the popular decision with users, but we choose to represent the ideals of freedom of speech and the right for individuals to make their own decisions as to what they view.

Thank you, Preyfar. I'm very impressed, not with the decision, but in the way that it was handled. In the end, it is about user choice. We can choose to embrace it, hate it, ignore it, or even leave if we see fit. If people choose to leave, then that's their decision and it's our job to respect it, even if we don't agree with why they're doing it. This is what maturity and personal responsibility are about.
 

Arshes Nei

Masticates in Public
ebonyleopard said:
Not really, why should artistic furry expression be limited to just paper? This is the site for freedom of expression, and photography is just another form of art, so technically since fursuits are indeed furry related and are already posted on the site, why should fursuit sex be banned and censored. Not like you know or see the person in the suit, for all visual purposes it's just 3D anthros screwing just like in the digital 3D art. I mean, lt's go all the way, down with censorship of any kind.

The reason this was no longer permitted was because of the new act that required all people to have a model release when it had nudity. This was to verify that the person was 18 or over and that the picture was used with their consent. That was actually to help prevent real child porn too.
 

uncia2000

Member
DavidN said:
I have a feeling that if the admins lock this thread, it'll just explode all over the other boards again...

*nods*. And personally it can be good for everyone in the community to see the feedback here /if/ that can be kept level headed, given that we have hundred of people "checking in" and wanting to hear other's thoughts on the matter.

Anything off-topic/inflammatory, I'll happily delete if Dragoneer isn't around to hand out tempbans.
 

uncia2000

Member
- OK, you got there first, Pinkuh... I was still typing in several other places at once and had thought this was being watched over.

(Anyhow; I could do with an early night's sleep for a change and 3am is pretty good going ;))
 

greyfur

New Member
Dragoneer said:
Hulex said:
When it comes right down to it, it really is about freedom of speech and expression. Not everyone likes it, but it does seem to be the most fair route to take at least.
I hate cub art, and dislike it with a passion. However, I am not going to vote to ban something that is clearly not against the law in the US (whose "moral standards" are exceptionally high when it comes to banning/blocking items).

Again, the issue comes down to (in my view) hypocrisy. Why is cub art bad, yet nobody is protesting rape, murder, drug use, etc. No real children are being harmed, and if we ever discover they are, or have reason to believe, we will take action with the law.

Hiding behind the law shows that you propably aren't that against this. Admins have the right to decide and to say "no". So if you really were against it, you wouldn't allow it. Even the Poll ended 50 : 50, the calls for a ban had 1 more vote than those to allow it. So you ignore more than 50% of the users which stated they don't want that to be here. So don't hide behind the law. It's you, the admins, who's decision it was and you will pay for it by the users which will leave and which already left...
 

kurst

New Member
Dragoneer said:
Fur Affinity
Where Freedom of Expression Reigns

As I told a friend in car yesterday even though I myself don't like that art, it makes me itch and sick. If we believe in the spirit of the site we need not to go down the slippiry slope.

The decision that was laid down was the right one for the spirit and idea of the site.

Thank you for doing the right thing.
 

DracoOfZeradaith

Golden Dragongod
verix said:
"I'm willing to take a 24 hour ban for this..."

*snicker* I love you, Verix.

Dragoneer, Admins, I salute you. I joined the forums today, and good gods, am I glad I missed out on all the drama here. It was a difficult decision. It was an unpopular decision. But you made the right one. Sure, I don't absolutely *love* the idea of cub porn, but I would much rather have the choice of filtering something for myself than impeding on someone else's First Amendment rights.

To all the artists leaving over this, I'm sorry to see you go. May you find happiness somewhere out there in the great big Intarnets.

To those of us staying, let's let this drop and get on with our lives.

The Dragon Hath Spoken :D
--Draco of Zeradaith, Geosexual Golden God
 
And the hammer has been brought down! Wise words from the waffler.
 

Shira

Member
First, to the administration, thank you for making a decision. Hopefully the fallout from this won't be as dramatic as some of us fear it will be. I'd say roughly 5% of artists have expressed their urges to leave the site, and some have already done so, but honestly, I feel it's their loss. They're turning away one of the largest, most interactive audiences they could get.

Second, and I know some people have asked this already... where does the line get drawn between "furry" and "human" art? I couldn't draw to save my soul (and it would take a lot more than art!), so it doesn't affect me, but it does seem to be a valid concern. Also, anime-style characters can look significantly older or younger than their actual ages, so saying "anime" as a baseline is rather fuzzy itself. Some people are going to try skirt as close to the line as possible, no matter where it gets drawn, but it would be wise to at least draw it clearly as possible.

Third, how are the filters for this going to be handled? Some people have proposed expanding the existing adult-rating system (from three tiers to four), but there's a lot of other art that would have to go into that top level as well. Will it just be added to the existing list of filters, and will they be re-enabled soon, hopefully by the end of the year?

Fourth, since we have so many flames on the forums these days... who brought the marshmallows? I want s'mores!
 

shy_matsi

Member
I'm not one who looks at cub art, but I fully agree with this decision. It would've been the start of banning a whole lot more then just mature cub art, that or it would've been the start of the first furry site to discriminate against a class of furs. Either way, I think, would be bad for FA.
 

roninotter

New Member
This makes me sad. :cry:
Tell me, are negative comments counted as "drama" and therefore censored? Because I'd like to say something which might have been overlooked in the reasoning for this decision.
 

blade

D-List Artist
Actually it (the drama)was those that were stating that anyone that voted "allow" were thus pedos because of that, even if they weren't, along with other bouts of namecalling...but to answer the question, from what I've seen they didn't seem to get censored, only the stuff that took away from the topic ("so what shows are you watching?") were deleted so that things could be kept on track.

If it has to do with moral/legal/previous TOS, it's probably already been said. The law had been quoted numerous times, moral statements have been said numerous times and the TOS had been quoted many times. As had the argument of beastiallity, cubs vs human children, and there's probably a few that I'm forgetting.

As for now, let's just let things be how they are considering that this topic has brought up a lot of bad blood and it was the decision of the admin to do this in the fairest way possible in what seemed to be a no-win situation.
 

StalkerAT

New Member
I don't want to argue about or against a specific group of furs. I also think that art should be free.

Nevertheless the desission that cub porn is completely allowed on this site seems not very wise to me.
Maybe there will be some lawsuit which can make clear if cub and child porn is the same of not, however I wouldn't want to have that battle running directly against FA.
Quite a lot of people are disgusted by underage characters in adult situations and other forms of alternative furry porn. This is a problem, that's concerns a lot of pics here on FA. "Cub porn" is just a very popular example. Please try to get that filter working or get a new category ("General - Mature - Adult - ???") for submiting.
 

Lt_Havoc

SPADS Commander
I think it speaks volumes that a lot of artists are leaving, cuz´ of that decsion. The site is bleeding dry, the wrost thing that can happen. But no one is doing something against that. I asked, if you where sure about the outcome of your decsion, but in fact, you never cared.
 

blade

D-List Artist
I have yet to see it bleed dry. I still see artwork being posted reguardless and I still see journals posted (albeit the majority that pop up in my inbox being about the current situation), and comments given.

Opinions can be taken at face value, but should not distributed as fact.
 

Lt_Havoc

SPADS Commander
blade said:
I have yet to see it bleed dry.  I still see artwork being posted reguardless and I still see journals posted (albeit the majority that pop up in my inbox being about the current situation), and comments given.

Opinions can be taken at face value, but should not distributed as fact.
Sure, but not from those I loved to watch. They will all go and my watch list will be left with a few people who are brave enough to stay. There is no danm other site where so many good artists are at the same place.

It all got destroyed through this and thats why I not support the whole thing at all.
 
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