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Fighting for our... freedom?

Mullerornis

Active Member
I hate these "for freedom" excuses.

Four words: There. Is. No. Freedom.

Society cannot operate with freedom. We don't let maniacs kill each other, we don't allow rapists to rape people. We can allow personal rights, but true freedom means letting everyone do their thing. Until people abolish morality and law, "freedom fighters" are hypocrites.
 

AlexInsane

I does what I says on the box.
You could probably string together any old sentence and as long as it contained the words 'liberty' 'struggle' and 'faith' a good deal of people would swallow it on emotional grounds.

I struggle to rid myself of these pants and bring liberty to my imprisoned genitals. Have faith, though, for I shall persevere!
 

Fallowfox

Are we moomin, or are we dancer?
I hate these "for freedom" excuses.

Four words: There. Is. No. Freedom.

Society cannot operate with freedom. We don't let maniacs kill each other, we don't allow rapists to rape people. We can allow personal rights, but true freedom means letting everyone do their thing. Until people abolish morality and law, "freedom fighters" are hypocrites.

Your idea of freedom is too extreme.

There is a difference between not being free because you live under a military dictatorship and westerners claiming that they aren't really free because they're not allowed to rape people.
 
I don't have a solution or pretend to have one. I don't know most of the factors involved, and have no first hand experience in the region or dealing with the region.

I do know that invading a country to fix it doesn't really seem to work when you have more bodybags than gifts to offer.
On that, I have to agree.

[anal history correction incoming] we didn't invade Afghanistan to fix it; we invaded as a direct response to 9/11 to uproot and kill or capture the majority of al-Qeada forces, who happened to be based in the country. We threw out the Taliban as part of a deal with the now-dissolved Northern Alliance to gain allies. The Taliban were rooted from power by November 2001, and al-Qaeda had no major presence in the country by 2003, but the Taliban returned in 2006 after reorganizing in Pakistan, leading to the police action we're in now. {the more you know!}
 

Aetius

It's Me Gordon, Barney from Black Mesa
This whole 'fighting for our freedom' things is complete and utter bullshit. The government wants us to believe that terrorists are going to destroy the nation. You want to know countries that are actually fighting for their freedom? try those in communist countries and those who are constantly being attacked.

If you call "freedom" as in overthrowing a competing government to awash the land red with their ideology, I guess they would be "freedom fighters" under that definition.

Afghanistan

If you call defending the Islamic Republic of Afghanistan against the Taliban emirate, I guess that would be bullying.

If you call the United States being called in to aid the Republic of Korea in their final stand against the Korean Peoples Army, I guess that would be bullying.


It could be argued that the US trying to defend South Vietnam from the North Vietnamese invasion to forcefully re-uinte the country.

As a reminder, the North Vietnamese were also not the peachiest people.


Most wars are straying within the "grey area". Not completely the USA being a bullying prick, and not completely the USA being a shining white knight. The USA may have saved some countries from domination, but at a large and somewhat painful price.

Edit:

Bullshit.

We fought in Vietnam to support a dictator and fight those wanting freedom. Look it up, the South Vietnam leader was a fucking douchebag who repressed his people, they were even setting themselves on fire on live TV to get the word out. The dude in the North simply wanted a vote to reunite vietnam when the U.S. was *attacked* and decided to invade because communists were bad.

Diem's regime was pretty shitty considering the fact that he tried to create a dominant Roman Catholic state that oppressed the Buddhist majority. The North Vietnamese were sometimes equally or even more terrible as compared to their southern rivals. Something must be pretty messed up considering how one million people abandoned the north to the south. Concerning the elections that were to be held to unify vietnam per the Geneva Confrence. Both the South AND North Vietnamese rejected the elections put forward by the respective parties, with the North Vietnamese rejecting the "American Plan", which called for UN supervised elections.
 
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Bliss

Member
Witness how Hollywood can and does make it appear as if any war fought by any people (main-cast / the 'goodies') anywhere in the world at any point in history is in the name of LIFE, LIBERTY and PURSUIT OF HAPPINESS.
 

Mullerornis

Active Member
Your idea of freedom is too extreme.

There is a difference between not being free because you live under a military dictatorship and westerners claiming that they aren't really free because they're not allowed to rape people.

Might as well say we live in a disharmonic world when society has built a routine.

Like I said, use the term "personal rights", because it's more accurate.
 

Dreaming

Member
Maybe they're assuming that if they lose a war, they're somehow losing or risking their freedom? I dunno, there's likely a more deep-rooted origin and meaning to the phrase. At least it beats all that "For queen and country" bullcrap, yes lets fight for this feudal family that rules us!
 
T

TheMetalVelocity

Guest
I forget what some holidays are even about. And honestly, they aren't as enjoying as they use to be. My family and people I know became less optimistic and more stressed out over them, especially the ones that you have to get together and make food. They also became boring. There's also arguments from each side of family and drama bullshit. Not to mention, they are also a gateway for companies to make money off of sales with consumerism. Seems like they lost their meaning, became less of it, or that thing that made them good in the first place.
 
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Kit H. Ruppell

Exterminieren! Exterminieren!
The overuse of the word 'hero' when referring to soldiers is just as annoying.
 

LogicfromLogic

I don't give two flying ****s
I think that on 'freedom' that sometimes it is not the best thing as people are allowed to buy guns, and then use them to shoot up schools. But after the shooting people actually defend gun ownership rights, but what cost does it have when the wrong kind of person is so freely allowed to buy it? Freedom should have limits. No man/woman/other should be allowed to just do whatever the hell they want and take life away from others or make it a living hell for them. To be honest, while 'freedom' has its own good qualities, it also brings on the bad as well as the good. And from where I've stood, a lot of bad has been happening as of late because this whole 'fight for our freedom' thing is take way out of per-portion. What America did to become a country, that was fighting for freedom. what we are doing, we're just fighting a poor country and claiming freedom fight.
 

Fallowfox

Are we moomin, or are we dancer?
I'm not sure the american fight with the british empire was legitimately 'for freedom'. Canada, Australia and New Zealand, to my knowledge, did not go through wars as they became commonwealths instead of colonies. The queen is the head of state, but to all other intents and purposes they are clearly free countries.
 
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TheMetalVelocity

Guest
The overuse of the word 'hero' when referring to soldiers is just as annoying.
I know right, it's like nobody is bad or good. I'm sure "enemies" are calling their soldiers "hero" as well. It's just every man for himself.
 

Fallowfox

Are we moomin, or are we dancer?
I suspect the word hero is attributed to soldiers because 'killers' would not go down well with the general public.

Frankly if a government is asking young people to kill another country's young people, and perhaps get killed or mangled in the process, they cannot reasonably call the youths who sign up anything but heroes.

If a government cannot call a 19 year old boy who has lost 3 of his limbs doing what they said a hero, then any grounds for that government to ask more boys to be ripped a sunder would evapourate.
 

Aetius

It's Me Gordon, Barney from Black Mesa
I'm not sure the american fight with the british empire was legitimately 'for freedom'. Canada, Australia and New Zealand, to my knowledge, did not go through wars as they became commonwealths instead of colonies. The queen is the head of state, but to all other intents and purposes they are clearly free countries.

Some areas, such as Canada, experienced open republican rebellions against the crown. Australia was a special case in that it was granted greater autonomy and eventually commonwealth status. The Canadians were not able to achieve greater autonomy until 1867.

The British Empire governed in a completely different fashion in 1775 as compared to 1900.
 

Azure

100% organic vegan hubbas
freedumb isnt free

it isnt really real

kill brown people, acquire currency and political power
 

Hakar Kerarmor

PRAISE THE EMPEROR

Ozriel

Inglorious Bastard
Lol Propaganda. I want to create a drinking game bingo whenever I hear "Freedom" in any form. Bonus points for Freedom for "Killing the [x racial slur here]".



Failing that, there's a badge for defeating a hundred of him.

You get Valor points, which are good for purchasing epic lewt. :V
 

Rilvor

Formal when angry
I suspect the word hero is attributed to soldiers because 'killers' would not go down well with the general public.

Frankly if a government is asking young people to kill another country's young people, and perhaps get killed or mangled in the process, they cannot reasonably call the youths who sign up anything but heroes.

If a government cannot call a 19 year old boy who has lost 3 of his limbs doing what they said a hero, then any grounds for that government to ask more boys to be ripped a sunder would evapourate.

Or, you know, it might be a hangover from older days when any given group of people's warriors were actually heroes.
 
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