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Flashplayer Drop in 2020

Pomorek

Antelope-Addicted Hyena
This whole matter with Flash is a huge setback for me personally. Looped turntable animations have become sort of my signature art form. Really great way to showcase a 3D furry character from all angles, looks much more realistic than just a single image. Flash allowed to package decent resolution and image quality into a file of manageable size, with interactivity (the ability to turn the model around at will) being very nice addition. And widespread support on websites made it easy to upload and share the files (by the way: I wonder what will Deviantart do with this whole Flash affair, since they have a whole huge section for such works?).

And I know a guy who is making such turntables as commissions, this will hurt him even more than me.

It's easy to understand that Adobe didn't want to bother with this outdated, easily hackable piece of technology anymore. It's less understandable that we have no alternative. The program I'm using for the turntables (Object2VR) offers HTML 5 as an alternate format, I was expecting that this can replace Flash, but now I get to read it's too unsafe? What the heck...


My main uses for it were viewing the animated weather radar images on the National Weather Service site. Previously Chrome would ask you if you wanted to run the extension. This week it started telling you the extension was blocked, full stop, do not pass go, do not collect $200. Firefox doesn't even tell you that much. I had to fire up IE in order to see how many thunderstorms were visiting my neck of the woods that afternoon (there was a conga line of them)
Since a long time I'm using Safari browser to preview my Flash files, I keep it exclusively for that purpose. It launches them for me with no questions asked. Maybe it could be useful for you. Unless it simply is that it didn't update itself and I'm still running some old version that has Flash active.


On more humorous side: Chrome is blocking Flash, right? Yet here, installing Chrome and even making it default was suggested to me with a recent Flash Player update! Great move, Adobe...
 

Dragoneer

Site Developer
Staff member
Site Director
The program I'm using for the turntables (Object2VR) offers HTML 5 as an alternate format, I was expecting that this can replace Flash, but now I get to read it's too unsafe? What the heck...
No site is going to allow the average user to upload raw HTML to their site (while coding sites like Codepen permit it's a great risk on a site like FA). HTML5 is a great replacement for some things in Flash, but it's best used for personal sites. Too many vulnerabilities allowing people to upload it to the site as direct content.
 

Cawdabra

Well-Known Member
No site is going to allow the average user to upload raw HTML to their site (while coding sites like Codepen permit it's a great risk on a site like FA). HTML5 is a great replacement for some things in Flash, but it's best used for personal sites. Too many vulnerabilities allowing people to upload it to the site as direct content.
Newgrounds and itch.io both allow people to upload HTML5 content. I think they get around security concerns by loading it in an iframe from a CDN so it can't access the cookies from the main origin.
 

Dragoneer

Site Developer
Staff member
Site Director
Newgrounds and itch.io both allow people to upload HTML5 content. I think they get around security concerns by loading it in an iframe from a CDN so it can't access the cookies from the main origin.
That may be a proper solution, and I'll admit I haven't looked into it enough to know. I just want to be extremely careful before going that route.
 

Lexiand

Fabulous Pixel lycanthrope of sparkly rainbows.
Newgrounds made their own flash player for flash content. Maybe someone who develops the site could do make something similar to that?
 

Dragoneer

Site Developer
Staff member
Site Director
Newgrounds made their own flash player for flash content. Maybe someone who develops the site could do make something similar to that?
Newgrounds didn't make their own Flash player. They used a script to simulate Flash, which is the same script we're looking at using as well.
 

Dragoneer

Site Developer
Staff member
Site Director
Newgrounds didn't make their own Flash player. They used a script to simulate Flash, which is the same script we're looking at using as well.
First off, hello me from a few months ago. Did you know you were wrong in this comment? Ruffle, the script Newgrounds is using to simulate flash, was made by a few people associated with Newgrounds. You were wrong. W-r-o-n-g! Lexiand was right.

Second, we're doing some testing with Ruffle now. It works, but Ruffle currently lacks ActionScript support which is fairly integral for many Flash files to run. So it both works and doesn't at the same time.

I'm monitoring Ruffle dev to see if/when this is fixed. It's possible the team will get it updated before the official deadline on Jan 1.
 

Cawdabra

Well-Known Member
Second, we're doing some testing with Ruffle now. It works, but Ruffle currently lacks ActionScript support which is fairly integral for many Flash files to run. So it both works and doesn't at the same time.
Even just very basic Actionscript support (like gotoAndPlay(x), stop(), etc.) would be appreciated. Most Flash files tend to be animations.
 

Dragoneer

Site Developer
Staff member
Site Director
Even just very basic Actionscript support (like gotoAndPlay(x), stop(), etc.) would be appreciated. Most Flash files tend to be animations.
Ruffle doesn't work with that, at least not yet. It's proof-of-concept. So Flash functionality will be quite limited/borderline nonexistent unless they release a major update by the end of the month. Out of 6 submissions we tested with Ruffle only 1 worked because of ActionScript reliance.

There's little we can do in this matter except to wait for Ruffle to mature.
 

redhusky

Emperor of Floof! King of the Rats and Spamlord!
Ruffle doesn't work with that, at least not yet. It's proof-of-concept. So Flash functionality will be quite limited/borderline nonexistent unless they release a major update by the end of the month. Out of 6 submissions we tested with Ruffle only 1 worked because of ActionScript reliance.

There's little we can do in this matter except to wait for Ruffle to mature.
Any plans to include HTML5 project hosting as opposed to single file SWFs? I'm currently using git hub, google drive, itch.io for hosting and linking back to a upload atm.
 

AGUArius

AGUA!
Just wanted to chime in here because the deadline for Flash support dropping is fast approaching, and I also believe the issue really needs to be addressed soon.
At the very least, we need to finally add support for modern formats like .WebM files so people could still share video animations.
 
Unfortunately, due to the fact that Adobe implemented a timebomb feature to Flash Player to not allow Flash content to work after 2020, I don't even think FA is spending anymore time or resources necessary to keep their Flash content alive, let alone even find an open-source or HTML5 solution.

Other than the FlashPoint project and Internet Archive's announcement to preserve internet Flash content, I don't think FA will release their Flash player emulator anytime soon, so in other words they might put all development on a Flash emulator for FA in development hell and/or on hold until further notice or until an open-source or HTML5 solution is agreed upon.

Ultimately, the timebomb feature in Flash Player is a flashback to the timebomb feature in beta builds of Microsoft Windows & Microsoft Office, as well as the ill-fated Microsoft Product Activation system from the 1990s & 2000s in Microsoft Office & Windows XP until Windows 7.

So in other words, remove the ability to upload works in the SWF format file extension and permanently disable or remove Flash content altogether in 2021, no furry on FA will ever utilize Flash development tools anymore after 2020 anyways.
 
So in other words, remove the ability to upload works in the SWF format file extension and permanently disable or remove Flash content altogether in 2021, no furry on FA will ever utilize Flash development tools anymore after 2020 anyways.
Disabling the ability to upload works in the SWF format file extension until Ruffle.rs has full ActionScript support should be enough.
 
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Set your computer's clock to January 2021, and you'll see the timebomb feature, which was implemented back in July 2020, and you'll see why Ruffle.rs will likely spend longer to get ActionScript support & the fact that FA would likely put their Flash Player alternative in development hell and/or on hold until Ruffle.rs has completed ActionScript support.
 

Crazyman1

Blue bunny from outer space
Yeah the timebomb crap is why i wish there was a open source implementation of flash, they are killing it why not release the source code already?
Greed thats why probably, adobe is too expensive
 

Takana3121

New Member
Soo, in less than a month from now Adobe will pull the plug and the support for Flash will soon ends. Any updates from Furaffinity Admins/Mods/Directors regarding this? What will happen to all the flash posted here after the year ends?
 

Pomorek

Antelope-Addicted Hyena
Personally, after some experimentation and messing around with possibilities, I'm ready to say goodbye to Flash. Sure, the interactivity part in the turntables is something I'll be missing. And the easiness of embedding the file right there on site.

But otherwise, working with Flash was putting quite severe constraints on the length of the animation, and the resolution. Hosting the animations on YouTube and/or Google Drive allows me to disregard all such limitations. While there is no interactivity, and the viewer coming from FA needs to click an external link, I'm finding the quality trade-off to be quite attractive actually!

Currently I'm in the process of re-rendering and re-encoding my past works that were done in Flash. At least those with good enough quality to begin with.
 
So Dragoneer if your reading this, It's unlikely that Ruffle.rs is going to complete the ActionScript support anytime soon. So in other words for the last time, I don't think FA is going to spend anymore time or resources necessary to keep their Flash content alive, let alone find an HTML5 or Open-Source solution.

Also, due to the "Timebomb" feature that Adobe implemented in Flash Player in July, I would say that FA has put their Flash Player alternative in development hell and/or on hold until Ruffle.rs has full ActionScript support. In addition, no Furry is going to use any Flash development tools after 2020 anyways.

This Timebomb feature is a flashback to Microsoft's Timebomb feature used in beta builds of Windows & Microsoft Office, in addition to the ill-fated Microsoft Product Activation system used in Microsoft Office & Windows XP until Windows 7.

In other words Dragoneer, either disable the ability to upload works in the SWF file extension format, or just disable or remove the Flash Player feature altogether, there is no time for FA to find an alternative for Flash Player anytime soon.
 
About a week ago, Adobe released their final update to Adobe Flash Player.

Unfortunately Dragoneer, it's impossible to transition from SWF to Ruffle for right now because of the Timebomb feature mentioned above.
 

Yoshimaster96

Well-Known Member
So will Flash content be removed entirely, or will it still be up to allow people to download/play them by other means (such as the NG player or Ruffle player)? Personally I think the former would be an acceptable option until Ruffle can be implemented in the website itself, but I'm not sure what you all think.
 

osprey

MechWarrior extraordinaire!
Chiming in to say that Firefox 84.0 will be the last version to support flash (not like it ever really worked in the first place).

It would be nice if there was software that could convert Flash to some kind of stand-alone EXE or whatever so that it can persist in some way.
 

Just4comments

New Member
I don't know as of yet. This is something we're looking into and trying to make plans for. Part of the problem is, even if we can convert older submissions to animated MP4, it leaves any older flash animation with interactivity in the lurch. I think about this problem almost daily, especially with regards to our old content.

Some of the solutions are kind of expensive to implement and we just don't quite have the budget for some alternatives.
I think there could be a way to keep the files in their current format and still be able to run them! Seeing as how there are some browsers made specifically for flash emulation (puffin being one of them), perhaps if the user’s current browser can’t run flash a prompt is displayed saying they need to use a browser w/ flash?

EDIT: I just found that Puffin is actually going all in on preserving flash and is even making a plugin to allow flash to run on another browser. Holy crap.
 
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Dragoneer

Site Developer
Staff member
Site Director
We're still looking into things. We'll have a solution in place, though it may not be as nice as we'd like as Ruffle isn't quite where it needs to be as of yet. We're looking at alternatives.
 

Just4comments

New Member
We're still looking into things. We'll have a solution in place, though it may not be as nice as we'd like as Ruffle isn't quite where it needs to be as of yet. We're looking at alternatives.
Like this?

I couldn’t find the cost, but it might be a good alternative if ruffle needs a little more development time.
 
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