Friend confessed cub porn past. Conflicted.

[jeveswist]

If this kind of topic is inappropriate here, I apologize in advance.

Some time ago, a friend confessed to me she'd had a period of her life where she'd been unwillingly addicted to cub porn. She'd had these "fits" where she'd had unwanted sexual cub thoughts, looked up and masturbated to cub drawings compulsively, and then get repulsed at what she was doing and stopped; she'd try to resist the compulsion, and never made any content of her own or shared any content around. Outside those fits, she said she hadn't had any sexual interest in children and would've rather died than had sexual contact with one; she said she had other sexual interests that she was actually enjoying engaging with, and that she was disgusted with this uncontrollable mental problem. She said that last year, she finally overcame her shame and self-hatred and went to counseling; thanks to being able to unload her mental issues on a professional, the compulsion's hold began to fade on her. She said she's been free of it and healthy for a while, doing what makes her happy and fulfilling her sexuality without the baggage of her old compulsive behaviour. I trust her when she says she hasn’t harmed anyone and is now free of her compulsion: she'd confessed something so sick and shameful to me, so why would she lie now?

As she confessed, my friend said she felt a sense that even though her counselor had reassured her she hadn't harmed anyone and deserved to be gentle with herself, she still felt some lingering sense that she'd harmed children. This was because, in her words, she'd added to the viewcounts of cub artwork and therefore possibly motivated the creation of more of that kind of content, and that content could then have gone on to either

- be used to groom minors in the furry fandom and elsewhere or

- normalize and encourage the attitude that minors can consent to sex in furry spaces and therefore enable and encourage child sexual abuse.

She said she'd tried to convince cub artists not to make that content anymore and cub host sites not to host that content anymore: when that didn't work, she'd done something I think she called "countersignalling": favouriting the non-cub content of cub makers and followed their pages to create the impression of there being more demand for their other content. She said she'd missed doing so on FimFiction, but that she'd looked at much more other content and spread the viewcounts around that way.

While I was initially disgusted, the moral dimensions of it seemed trivial to me at the time; after all, she'd just looked at pictures, that was it. However, she was taking it seriously, so I tried to console her by saying that it was fine, that she'd harmed no one. I told her that all she'd done was look at this content and anonymously add a single view to the viewcounts of these works, and people using it for grooming or getting the wrong impression about child/adult relationships from it was out of her control, and so it wasn't her moral responsibility. She seemed really attached to her "reverse signalling", so I told her that it was enough to counteract the signal she'd sent by adding to cub viewcounts.

However, lately, I've also been seeing people say that that's not the case, and that people like her have harmed children by consuming this content by motivating the creation of content that can have the harmful effects of grooming and normalization, regardless of intent or other measures, and I can't seem to be able to dismiss them out of hand, either. I don't want to think of my friend as someone who's contributed to child sexual harm, but I don't know if that's just because she's my friend, who's been with me for longer than I can remember. I just don't know what to think, so I’ve been posting this in a whole bunch of places just so I can get some insight on the matter and know where I stand, because my thoughts are running in circles.

 

[TyraWadman]

Some people go through phases, which is why I don't really take these weird/spontaneous confessions too seriously on the internet. For a lot, they join these 'trends' (for lack of a better word) because it's edgy and being edgy and controversial is exciting. But not everyone has the self-awareness to properly judge/gauge their own emotions and impusles, so in this case, I'm glad to hear they've sought professional counseling.

I am a little worried as to how/why this subject came up if they were so ashamed though. If it was sudden/unprovoked you might wanna be weary. I've heard people give similar statements in the past, when in actuality, they were sugarcoating it and indirectly confessing their obsessions, as if putting it all on the plate for me somehow made this okay, and by continuing to keep in touch with them, it somehow means you are accepting of their behavior.

I'm also a bit concerned that they're also teetering off into the opposite extreme now, too. It's great they realized their mistake but I'm picturing them (essentially) picketing and leaving a lot of unconvincing comments on random artist pages.

I personally do not keep in touch with those people because of morals and the fact that I can tell when someone is lying through their teeth after so long of knowing them... but that is up to you to decide. You might feel dirty for finding out, but if you feel confident that they've moved on from this phase of their life, and they haven't manipulated/physically harmed anyone (and you aren't encouraging/enabling it), I don't see why you need to ditch someone/disappear when they've actually taken the steps to overcome their demons. Worst case scenario... they were lying and you can remove them then.

 

[Ziv]

I could talk about the ethics of cub porn, but I actually think that's a separate issue from this entirely.
Your friend has OCD.
OCD is a mental illness, not a moral failing. Intrusive thoughts and compulsions that the person finds disgusting/repulsive and are often taboo are a textbook symptom.

EDIT: I just want to add that the "reverse signaling" is also a compulsion. Compulsions are aimed at neutralizing intrusive thoughts/anxieties.

 

[Deleted member 132067]

Tricky subject, I can already forsee an incredible shitstorm, considering that we have had avid defenders of cub porn in the past.
And as far as I'm aware FurAffinity isn't exactly doing anything to prevent this, which is something that leaves me with not enough profanities when I seek to put it into words.

Now, having gotten this out of the way:
Yes, every click on this content did contribute to the creation of more cub content, as well as everything bad that this entails.
It's disgusting and cannot, under no circumstances, be justified.
However, if we just try to believe in the good of humanity for one second and just assume that she didn't lie to you, did self reflect and became aware of her mistakes and furthermore stepped up to get help, this could be a wonderful example of a praiseworthy comeback.
She wants to become a better human being and act against further spread of this frankly damaging content.
Everyone who is in her position should act in exactly the same way.
I would even go as far as to claim that every furry who isn't consuming cub porn should do the same.
Distance yourself from it, speak out against it, rid our fandom of it if you can.
There's not even a need to worry about any content creator getting hurt in the process. It's cub porn we're talking about, fuck that and everyone who still contributes to it.

Ultimately the question of how and if you want to interact with her in the future is up to you.
Yes, what she did was disgusting.
Yes, stepping up and working on change is admirable.

 

[Monosuki the Aurian]

That is a pressing concern, but with your friend's advancements to ease herself of said issue, it's a great thing that she's moved forward, and actually stopped that behavior.

See, in that stage of her life, it was a good thing she found her way out of that tunnel of darkness. It only would've led to something much worse had it not been broken long ago.

She is commendable with the strides she has made, and the further efforts to denounce cub porn are indeed good. Now, for those that say she is part of the said populace that aids child sexual abuse, they clearly can't tell left from right. Those acts, even if merely just a few photos being viewed, in no way contributes to any of said help towards child sexual abuse.

What she has done is what very few have in current standards. The ability to stop the current nagging feeling, to break free from it and continue on, to change and become better, and actually seeing professionals about said issue, that is the true change, and she was very wise to have done that.

Ergo, she had made great efforts to further halt cub porn and it's....relentless march onward to spread more of that vile content across the vast, wide web. She had made great improvements, and I don't condone these actions, but encourage them, for she's part of the populace that will make a change in this word.

Conclusively, I feel she is doing great. The fact that she was hard on herself only further tells the story of how much she hated what she had done before, and to see where she stands now, along with your questions to align the viewpoints, are justifiable. I keep rooting for your friend on the ever so pursuing quest to finally bring an end to cub porn, and once that does happen....

It will be because of people like her, that we will thank. Carry on you two. Bring about the change that is long needed.

Godspeed.

 

[NuclearSlayer52]

why not ask her if you can both, together, talk to sexologists, therapists and psychologists? they seem more likely to be able to help you both, as theyre able to have a safe space for you both, unlike public forums

it should be possible but its also probably better to do so through voice chat

 

[Meta_Tiara]

If she genuinely changed her ways for the better and there’s good enough reason to believe so, then it should be easier to forgive her for her past behaviors.

 

[Connor J. Coyote]

@jeveswist Well, it sounds like (to me anyway) that you've been trying to smooth over a lot of her tensions, in an effort to be more consoling to her - and in a way - I commend you for that, as - that's a good thing, (the fact that you're there for her).

Even though you might've been personally disgusted at the content itself - it sounds like you didn't really "shake your finger" at her (so to speak) - and cast a moral (and judgmental) approach to her situation, which it sounds like - she was clearly struggling with.

And, that's also a good thing.... as that's just being a good friend, and not being an amateur psychologist, like some people frequently try to do.

In all honesty though, I find the idea of what you call "reverse signalling" - that she was trying to engage in, (with content creators) - kind of bizarre.

As - whilst it's true that many content creators look at their posting views, and they sometimes tailor their creative works based on "what the people want", (in all honesty though) - most people create artwork simply because they have an idea that they want to create a certain thing, and they just do it - or.... in some other cases it's frankly because - someone's paying them to do it.... (and this often times includes cub content).

And with regards to the cub content issue itself - it's been debated (on this forum particularly) many times, over the years - and in many instances.... and - it almost always seems to come down to the same two camps (every time): the "artistic liberty and freedom of expression" group (which is where I belong) vs. the "we gotta protect the children" group - (which I completely reject, and frequently disagree with).

But.... in regards to your immediate concerns - (I agree with the counselor) in that your friend didn't really harm anyone, (by engaging in this content the way you described) - and that she does indeed - "deserve to be gentle with herself".

And so - (the fact that she didn't engage in her fantasies outside of cub drawings) - tells me that it sounds more like - she's just having moralistic conflicts about her sexual interests, she's feeling guilty about it, and just needs some re-assurance that she hasn't really done anything wrong - (from a legal and moralistic perspective).

And, unless she engages in these fantasies in the real World, with a real person - then, she hasn't broken any laws, (here in the U.S.) - as the First Amendment clearly protects our "Freedom of Speech" (which includes cub content).... and so - perhaps her counselor can work with her more (on her *guilt* issues), and not so much by focusing on the content itself.

As her friend - it sounds like you're putting your personal opinions aside on the issue, and are just there to support her... and - you're doing the right thing there. And - (if I was you): I'd be focusing more on her guilt issues and her desire to change these interests, (like her counselor should be doing), vs. taking a moralistic stand and focusing on the content she enjoyed itself.

 

[Miles Marsalis]

@jeveswist , it seems like your friend had a problem with underage pornographic content, but apparently managed to overcome through therapy which is the appropriate way to deal with her condition. If you feel is being on the level with you, then it may be worth helping her stay on the straight path as long as you trust her. For me, a friend not being upfront with me about an addiction like that and them having that addiction in the first place would dealbreakers, but I don't know the dynamic between the two of you nor whether you have faith she won't relapse.

That said, while it's admirable she is confronting the creators and consumers of this content, it may be better for her to focus on not relapsing rather than expose herself to this material and risk that outcome.

You may want to broach that with her.

 

[Connor J. Coyote]

For me, a friend not being upfront with me about an addiction like that and them having that addiction in the first place would dealbreakers.

Well - not all of us are so harsh.... some of us do take into consideration the overall caliber of the person that we're dealing with, and don't necessarily make them "walk the plank" the minute they may fall out of line with our own personal views. As people can change, and they do make mistakes sometimes, you know.

it may be better for her to focus on not relapsing rather than expose herself to this material and risk that outcome.

Exactly..... and also - not doing so in a judgmental manner (about the content) no matter how unsavory one may personally find it - is also key.
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@jeveswist For the OP - I sincerely hope that you take my advice.... as it's a very sound, and safe way - for you to go about approaching your situation with her; and.... in spite of the user (below me) posting and saying that it's a "deal breaker" for him - I hope that, if she's a good friend of yours (which it sounds like she is) - then, you *also* won't make her "walk the plank" (so to speak), and basically wash your hands of her..... epsecially at this time - with the personal issues that she's currently going through.

As your support can clearly assist her in getting through this - and, (as I said above) - just take the moral concerns aside - and focus on helping her.... and, that's just being a good friend... and not try to be an amateur therapist - (as she's already got a real one).

 

[Miles Marsalis]

Well - not all of us are so harsh.... some of us do take into consideration the overall caliber of the person that we're dealing with, and don't necessarily make them "walk the plank" the minute they may fall out of line with our own personal views. As people can change, and they do make mistakes sometimes, you know.

Exactly..... and also - not doing so in a judgmental manner (about the content) no matter how unsavory one may personally find it - is also key.
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@jeveswist For the OP - I sincerely hope that you take my advice.... as it's a very sound, and safe way - for you to go about approaching your situation with her; and.... in spite of the user (below me) posting and saying that it's a "deal breaker" for him - I hope that, if she's a good friend of yours (which it sounds like she is) - then, you *also* won't make her "walk the plank" (so to speak), and basically wash your hands of her..... epsecially at this time - with the personal issues that she's currently going through.

As your support can clearly assist her in getting through this - and, (as I said above) - just take the moral concerns aside - and focus on helping her.... and, that's just being a good friend... and not try to be an amateur therapist - (as she's already got a real one).

I'd argue that disliking art depicting the underage in sexual situations more of moral standard rather than an arbitrary personal preference that would be petty to break a friendship over.

I did say that I think it is admirable @jeveswist 's friend overcame her struggle, but I would point out that the underlying propensity her addiction indicated is a serious one. People with that addiction can be a risk to children and I don't think someone should be labeled judgemental for wanting to associated with someone who has addiction linked with pedophilia, particularly when that friend didn't tell them about it to begin with.

I also think that while @jeveswist can support their friend if they are being level with them, I also feel that jeveswist should be aware of the risks of associating with that friend should they relapse and be ready deal with that.

 

[Troj]

I could talk about the ethics of cub porn, but I actually think that's a separate issue from this entirely.
Your friend has OCD.
OCD is a mental illness, not a moral failing. Intrusive thoughts and compulsions that the person finds disgusting/repulsive and are often taboo are a textbook symptom.

EDIT: I just want to add that the "reverse signaling" is also a compulsion. Compulsions are aimed at neutralizing intrusive thoughts/anxieties.

I'd hesitate to diagnose somebody based on someone else's account of a snapshot of their behavior, but based on OP's account, I'm inclined to agree with Ziv that this sounds more like an ego-dystonic (meaning, repugnant or distressing to the self/ego) obsession that draws in your friend because she finds it revolting and troubling, and not an ego-syntonic paraphilia or sexual interest that draws her in because she just plain enjoys it.

Either way, is it still problematic for all of the reasons both she and OP have recognized? Yes.

But, OP's friend doesn't sound like your garden-variety pedo, based on their description. If OP's friend were someone who browsed cub content because they were sexually attracted to fictional and/or real children, I'd say, absolutely burn that social bridge.

In this case, I'd say OP's friend at least needs to stay in therapy, be honest with her therapist about what's going on, and should continue to follow her therapist's advice, and that is the "friendship contract" OP should have with the friend.

I'd also suggest that the OP's friend may benefit from finding a healthier and more productive outlet for this energy, and their therapist can hopefully help her navigate that. Your mileage may differ, but I think even engaging negatively or reactively towards cub stuff is still unhealthy, because she's still caught in the orbit of cub stuff.

 

[Ziv]

I'd hesitate to diagnose somebody based on someone else's account of a snapshot of their behavior, but based on OP's account, I'm inclined to agree with Ziv that this sounds more like an ego-dystonic (meaning, repugnant or distressing to the self/ego) obsession that draws in your friend because she finds it revolting and troubling, and not an ego-syntonic paraphilia or sexual interest that draws her in because she just plain enjoys it.

Either way, is it still problematic for all of the reasons both she and OP have recognized? Yes.

But, OP's friend doesn't sound like your garden-variety pedo, based on their description. If OP's friend were someone who browsed cub content because they were sexually attracted to fictional and/or real children, I'd say, absolutely burn that social bridge.

In this case, I'd say OP's friend at least needs to stay in therapy, be honest with her therapist about what's going on, and should continue to follow her therapist's advice, and that is the "friendship contract" OP should have with the friend.

I'd also suggest that the OP's friend may benefit from finding a healthier and more productive outlet for this energy, and their therapist can hopefully help her navigate that. Your mileage may differ, but I think even engaging negatively or reactively towards cub stuff is still unhealthy, because she's still caught in the orbit of cub stuff.

Making your friendship contingent on being in treatment doesn't seem like a good idea, as someone with a severe mental illness.
I mean, if that's your self-care, by all means. But if you think taking such a hard-line approach is what best supports your friend, I'd rethink that position...

 

[Charleslr'93]

From a parents perspective, I'd say burn the bridge, cut all ties, let the feds know. However, that's my opinion, others may not like it, others may hate it, or they may not share the same feelings. If someone looked at my son the way your friend looked at other youngsters/ children, not only would I reserve dangerous hate towards her, I'd also have hate for her friends and anyone who has active ties to your friend. Again, this is my opinion, not facts. Being a parent of a son, I'd just like to put in my two pennies worth. It's a little different when one person actually has a kid or a few, things get a lot more tricky and the feeling of being a protective/ proper parent kicks into overdrive.

 

[jeveswist]

Yes, every click on this content did contribute to the creation of more cub content, as well as everything bad that this entails.
It's disgusting and cannot, under no circumstances, be justified.

Honestly, here's the bit where I've been drawing a blank. Whenever I try to logic out the moral throughline here from the perspective of "clicking cub arts means you're morally responsible for harmful effects of more cub arts", I hit a snag; if the chain goes

1. original person adds to viewcount on cub art
2. cub artist makes more cub art, potentially but not verifiably inspired by viewcount
3. cub art potentially convinced someone that child sex is OK / is used to groom someone

, doesn't the chain stop at the cub artist, since they are a moral agent with free will that's ultimately making the choice whether or not to make the art, and the original person hasn't given any positive attention or explicit requests for more content, merely indicated that a work has been seen? And wouldn't that also apply to people whose views on kiddie sex being OK and groomers, whose actual child-harming actions are beyond the original person's capacity to influence? At this point, one part of me pipes up with "oh, so watching actual child porn is OK, then, as long as you don't like comment and subscribe?" and then another one goes "oh, you legitimately can't tell the difference between real child porn and drawings whose production harms no one?" and then the first one chimes in like "but it can reinforce bad attitudes and be used for grooming" and then the second one retorts with "and how are the actions of those people her responsibility", and then it goes back to square 1.

It's a mess. I think this is ultimately an emotional issue: part of me wants to move on and think she's harmed no one but herself and is trying to come up with logical/moral arguments for it, while another part feels disgusted and shocked to find all of this out and is trying to come up with logical/moral arguments to justify those feelings to rationalize this conception that she's actually caused harm, and the two pools of arguments are warring against each other. Finding some One True Argument isn't going to tell me how to feel about my friend or my relationship to her, but that's what my brain is nagging at me to find; insight. It wants to absolve or condemn her, but needs a reason. A justification. Someone "unbiased" to give me An Answer, either way, without sparing how I might possibly feel about it. I almost regret not just approaching this as a neutral thread like "Do you believe adding to cub viewcounts leads to CSA, Y/N" without injecting my personal experience, but I didn't want to relitigate that old, locked cub porn thread I saw while lurking, as that only lead to frustration in the end.

I want to just be able to put the moral dimension aside and process this as just an interpersonal matter; after all, she's the same person she's always been, a full person with hopes, dreams, and a shared past with me, and I do trust her when she says she's moved on and conquered this issue. I want to be able to move on too and support the new her (or rather, the her she's always been outside this compulsion), but child sexual integrity and similar issues are very dear to my heart, and when I saw people talking about how cub art can enable CSA and its consumers share moral responsibility for that, the moral dimension became undeniable and demanded resolution. I can forgive much - fuck, I've made my share of mistakes - but sexually harming children? Never that.

 

[NuclearSlayer52]

from my understanding, one of the current places for unbiased answers relating to this is from asking a CSA prevention group

the only ones i know of that are doing research into something similar, is https://prostasia.org/, so you might be able to ask them

 

[Vinfang]

Honestly, here's the bit where I've been drawing a blank. Whenever I try to logic out the moral throughline here from the perspective of "clicking cub arts means you're morally responsible for harmful effects of more cub arts", I hit a snag; if the chain goes

1. original person adds to viewcount on cub art
2. cub artist makes more cub art, potentially but not verifiably inspired by viewcount
3. cub art potentially convinced someone that child sex is OK / is used to groom someone

, doesn't the chain stop at the cub artist, since they are a moral agent with free will that's ultimately making the choice whether or not to make the art, and the original person hasn't given any positive attention or explicit requests for more content, merely indicated that a work has been seen? And wouldn't that also apply to people whose views on kiddie sex being OK and groomers, whose actual child-harming actions are beyond the original person's capacity to influence? At this point, one part of me pipes up with "oh, so watching actual child porn is OK, then, as long as you don't like comment and subscribe?" and then another one goes "oh, you legitimately can't tell the difference between real child porn and drawings whose production harms no one?" and then the first one chimes in like "but it can reinforce bad attitudes and be used for grooming" and then the second one retorts with "and how are the actions of those people her responsibility", and then it goes back to square 1.

It's a mess. I think this is ultimately an emotional issue: part of me wants to move on and think she's harmed no one but herself and is trying to come up with logical/moral arguments for it, while another part feels disgusted and shocked to find all of this out and is trying to come up with logical/moral arguments to justify those feelings to rationalize this conception that she's actually caused harm, and the two pools of arguments are warring against each other. Finding some One True Argument isn't going to tell me how to feel about my friend or my relationship to her, but that's what my brain is nagging at me to find; insight. It wants to absolve or condemn her, but needs a reason. A justification. Someone "unbiased" to give me An Answer, either way, without sparing how I might possibly feel about it. I almost regret not just approaching this as a neutral thread like "Do you believe adding to cub viewcounts leads to CSA, Y/N" without injecting my personal experience, but I didn't want to relitigate that old, locked cub porn thread I saw while lurking, as that only lead to frustration in the end.

I want to just be able to put the moral dimension aside and process this as just an interpersonal matter; after all, she's the same person she's always been, a full person with hopes, dreams, and a shared past with me, and I do trust her when she says she's moved on and conquered this issue. I want to be able to move on too and support the new her (or rather, the her she's always been outside this compulsion), but child sexual integrity and similar issues are very dear to my heart, and when I saw people talking about how cub art can enable CSA and its consumers share moral responsibility for that, the moral dimension became undeniable and demanded resolution. I can forgive much - fuck, I've made my share of mistakes - but sexually harming children? Never that.

Take it away from cub porn for a bit.

This is a very familiar argument towards video game violence and the horror genre. Ultimately, it is a will they, won't they kind of question.

I don't enjoy harming lives when I draw a zombie eating guts, but someone is my viewership might. So, should I stop drawing what I love, and censor my contents, because some psycho will someday start on a killing spree?

There is an artist, Lordi. who wrote a song "horrorfiction". in regards to how his lyrics spoke on his view on the horror genre.

I can't and won't be taking care of every disturbed individual browsing my contents. it is their caretaker's responsibility to monitor their mind / behavior. much similar to how it is a parent's responsibility to safeguard their wards.

At last, questionable moral dilemma aside, action is all that matters. I believe if a person do no harm. they should not be prosecuted for it.

I can't be learning every language on earth, so I simply make friends with people that I can communicate with. Let's be friends with people you like, and not be friends with people that you dislike.

 

[TrishaCat]

its just cartoon animal drawings
chill

Honestly sad that your friend has felt so much personal conflict regarding this when they really shouldn't.
I can respect the introspection and critical analysis of art one consumes though.
Ultimately how you feel about it is for you to decide (its perfectly okay to be uncomfortable with the things your friend has told you), but I think your concerns and worries are misplaced and unnecessary.

 

[Troj]

Making your friendship contingent on being in treatment doesn't seem like a good idea, as someone with a severe mental illness.
I mean, if that's your self-care, by all means. But if you think taking such a hard-line approach is what best supports your friend, I'd rethink that position..

We have to weigh our own safety, best interests, and health against the safety, best interests, and health of our friends and loved ones, and strike a balance that feels right, ethical, healthy, and sustainable to us.

Sometimes, that means making a conscious choice to stand by someone through thick and thin, even when it gets hard.

Other times, that means making a conscious choice to let somebody go when they're caught in a dangerous or self-defeating spiral that could suck you in, too.

Especially since the issue in this case concerns a behavior that is unhealthy, borderline unethical by many people's standards, and potentially borderline illegal--depending on how it's expressed and how far it's taken---I think it's reasonable to at least draw a clear line in the sand that conveys that you're willing to stand by somebody as they fight their demons, but you're not willing to go down in flames with them.

But, your mileage, dealbreakers, and dealmakers may differ, and that's fine.

 

[Ziv]

We have to weigh our own safety, best interests, and health against the safety, best interests, and health of our friends and loved ones, and strike a balance that feels right, ethical, healthy, and sustainable to us.

Sometimes, that means making a conscious choice to stand by someone through thick and thin, even when it gets hard.

Other times, that means making a conscious choice to let somebody go when they're caught in a dangerous or self-defeating spiral that could suck you in, too.

Especially since the issue in this case concerns a behavior that is unhealthy, borderline unethical by many people's standards, and potentially borderline illegal--depending on how it's expressed and how far it's taken---I think it's reasonable to at least draw a clear line in the sand that conveys that you're willing to stand by somebody as they fight their demons, but you're not willing to go down in flames with them.

But, your mileage, dealbreakers, and dealmakers may differ, and that's fine.

Yes, that was pretty much what I meant by my post. Apologies if that was unclear. Your first priority should be you, and if continuing a friendship with any person for any reason is compromising your own health, then you're justified in ending that relationship.

What I was objecting to was more the idea that doing so would NECESSARILY be in their friend's best interest, if that was the consideration. Personally, I probably wouldn't consider that to be the case. "Tough love" isn't an evidence-based treatment for OCD and relapses happen, sometimes for no reason.

 

[Troj]

Oh, agreed! I think we're on the same page there. Glad we cleared up the momentary miscommunication.

Sometimes having a loved one lay down a boundary can serve as a motivator or wake-up call, but I'm generally not a fan of "tough love," personally, (or rather, what tends to pass for "tough love").

 

[Connor J. Coyote]

From a parents perspective, I'd say burn the bridge, cut all ties, let the feds know. However, that's my opinion, others may not like it, others may hate it, or they may not share the same feelings. If someone looked at my son the way your friend looked at other youngsters/ children, not only would I reserve dangerous hate towards her, I'd also have hate for her friends and anyone who has active ties to your friend. Again, this is my opinion, not facts. Being a parent of a son, I'd just like to put in my two pennies worth. It's a little different when one person actually has a kid or a few, things get a lot more tricky and the feeling of being a protective/ proper parent kicks into overdrive.

@Charleslr'93 Eh... let the Feds know? I think that's a bit much, yo.

As frankly - there's a very big difference between "protecting the children" - versus simply trampeling on Free Speech simply because we don't like what's being conveyed, or the message that's being represented (that we're seeing).

"Protecting the children" doesn't mean that we need to throw the Constitution out of the window.

But..... anyway - (if people want to debate the merits of cub porn, for the ga-gillionth time on here) - then, it's best to probably make a separate thread about it, I think - and discuss the merits of it separately, (which is different from what the OP is asking), I believe.
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But.... focusing on the topic though - the OP is clearly dealing with his friend's challenges (as he describes it) - and is clearly trying to help her out.... and - that is his focus right now, and that's what it should be about.

And putting the "morality factor" (about the content) aside, whichever he may personally feel about it - is frankly, the best course of action to take..... and not really be the judge, jury, and executioner, so to speak - (by using advice from armchair psychologists), who may throw the "pedo" label around.

And - *it sounds like* that's what he's doing, (which is the right hing - and is just being a good friend).

 

[Raever]

its just cartoon animal drawings
chill

Honestly sad that your friend has felt so much personal conflict regarding this when they really shouldn't.
I can respect the introspection and critical analysis of art one consumes though.
Ultimately how you feel about it is for you to decide (its perfectly okay to be uncomfortable with the things your friend has told you), but I think your concerns and worries are misplaced and unnecessary.

Basically the above.

While I do think there are a lot of if's in this scenario:
- If your friend was attracted to minors...
- If your friend felt they were a danger to minors...
- If your friend saw no wrong in being attracted to pornographic content featuring minors...
Etc.

Then that would be an issue in and of itself.
However, it seems they've already gotten the help they needed - they just need to forgive themselves.

As for you, if you haven't come to terms with your friend's past, then maybe you shouldn't be friends. If you have, then why ask a bunch of strangers on the internet and spread their business (anonymous or no)? It seems rather unnecessary to me, since you've already been supporting them up to this point anyway. In the end, whether they added to a view count doesn't matter. A fetish is a fetish, and there will be people who want to view that kind of stuff now, in five years, in ten years, in fifty years, etc.

Your friend won't change anything by fighting a pointless battle with the internet.
They need to forgive themselves, and avoid those websites entirely.

 

[Deleted member 132067]

@Charleslr'93 Eh... let the Feds know? I think that's a bit much, yo.

As frankly - there's a very big difference between "protecting the children" - versus simply trampeling on Free Speech simply because we don't like what's being conveyed, or the message that's being represented (that we're seeing).

"Protecting the children" doesn't mean that we need to throw the Constitution out of the window.

But..... anyway - (if people want to debate the merits of cub porn, for the ga-gillionth time on here) - then, it's best to probably make a separate thread about it, I think - and discuss the merits of it separately, (which is different from what the OP is asking), I believe.
-------------------
But.... focusing on the topic though - the OP is clearly dealing with his friend's challenges (as he describes it) - and is clearly trying to help her out.... and - that is his focus right now, and that's what it should be about.

And putting the "morality factor" (about the content) aside, whichever he may personally feel about it - is frankly, the best course of action to take..... and not really be the judge, jury, and executioner, so to speak - (by using advice from armchair psychologists), who may throw the "pedo" label around.

And - *it sounds like* that's what he's doing, (which is the right hing - and is just being a good friend).

Watch out pseudo- Obi Wan, all that downplaying of anthropomorphic child pornography might topple you from your moral high ground.

Some claim he shouldn't forgive her, others say he should, the overall consensus is that it's ultimately up to him.
And given that he still struggles to find an answer for his questions it seems like this'll turn into a circlejerk.
Accusing others of being judgemental and then waving around with the importance of free speech won't help anybody, especially not the creator of this thread.

 

[ConorHyena]

Cub porn and actions citizens take among themselves has nothing to do with constitutional principles and freedom of speech.

Just sayin'